Cliff Varnell Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said: It is a complete exoneration of the reason for the investigation, Russian collusion. No, there is a case for collusion laid out in great detail -- but in Mueller's view it didn't rise to an indictable charge. Trump claims exoneration on obstruction of justicd and he's lying. Quote What does there is no evidence of collusion mean? It means Bill Barr is a lying p.o.s. Quote Democrats largely populated the investigation. Where? The FBI is a remarkably Republican institution and always has been. Trump lies when he says it was Democrats who initiated the investigation. Pure lie. How can you defend this garbage? Quote Did he do any deals in Russia? Other than launder Russian Mafia money? Quote At one point they were talking about a deal but that never went through. While at the same time he said he wasn't trying to make any deals in Russia. Quote To do business with someone, you actually have to make a deal. You can sell them a house worth 40 mil for 90 mil. Quote Who does have a great healthcare plan that doesn't bankrupt us? I do. Thru Obamacare I have a Kaiser Silver plan costs 62 bucks a month 1000 dollar deductible. The expansion of Medicaid and stricter hospital regulations have saved the lives of hundreds of thousands. Quote High crime among immigrants has always meant illegal immigrants not all immigrants. Illegal immigrants by definition are committing a crime the minute they illegally cross our border. You catch that bit about the rapists pouring over our border? Big fat lie. When people come to apply for asylum they are not illegal. Another huge Trumpian fascist lie. Edited March 28, 2019 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Carpenter Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: When people come to apply for asylum they are not illegal. Another huge Trumpian fascist lie. Why can't they apply for asylum in the first country they entered? If they are truly under duress, they should be happy to apply for asylum in Mexico. Mexico even offers asylum to these people and they turn it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Carpenter Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: No, there is a case for collusion laid out in great detail -- but in Mueller's view it didn't rise to an indictable charge. Trump claims exoneration on obstruction of justicd and he's lying. 2 You've seen the actual Mueller report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Carpenter Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Where? The FBI is a remarkably Republican institution and always has been. Trump lies when he says it was Democrats who initiated the investigation. Pure lie. How can you defend this garbage? 13 of the 18 or 19 lawyers hired by Mueller are Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) Look, to say the Democrats did not push and inflate Russia Gate, along with their Democratic allies in the media, is just not being candid or honest. Rachel Maddow was the high priestess of the whole affair. She got to be sickening. Its like Adam Schiff was writing her reports. Josh Marshall at TPM was the male online equivalent of Maddow. So not only did people like Schiff push the whole thing to the outer limits, this was transmitted to the masses by people like Maddow and Marshall. And many others. But if Mueller's report holds, Russia Gate was a mirage. And the thing is, there were responsible journalists who looked at it skeptically from the start. Like the late, great Bob Parry at Consortium News. But the mass of the alleged liberal blogosphere, and the people at MSNBC, went along with it. In Maddow's case, she promoted it. Sure Rachel: Russia Gate, yes, JFK murder, no. But that is how crazy our MSM is. To me, the only explanation for this bizarre behavior is what I proferred earlier. Everyone out there, most of all Huffpost, predicted HRC was going to win the election. And they wanted her to win. They did not want Trump in the White House, plain and simple. So Russia Gate became the apparatus for how they were going to get rid of him. Well, unless Roger Stone says something like he was the go between for a Trump/Putin back channel, that will not work. Although there is no doubt that it served as a distraction and it plagued Trump. Maybe that was the aim all along. Edited March 28, 2019 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Carpenter Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 28 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: I do. Thru Obamacare I have a Kaiser Silver plan costs 62 bucks a month 1000 dollar deductible. 1 How much do the taxpayers pay to subsidize your plan, Cliff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said: Why can't they apply for asylum in the first country they entered? If they are truly under duress, they should be happy to apply for asylum in Mexico. Mexico even offers asylum to these people and they turn it down. Most of these folks are escaping the violence of drug cartels, the existence of which are due to the American appetite for getting loaded, and the legal prohibitions placed on that appetite. The American people have a huge responsibility for the plight of these people, and we need to meet these responsibilities. Edited March 28, 2019 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 35 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said: How much do the taxpayers pay to subsidize your plan, Cliff? How many times have you sucked off the government teat, Ty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Carpenter Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Cliff Varnell said: How many times have you sucked off the government teat, Ty? What are you asking? I don't know how you would quantify that. We all use services provided by the government every day. What I am asking is, how much does your plan actually cost? The money is not there to subsidize everybody. So your healthcare plan is not sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 23 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: But if Mueller's report holds, Russia Gate was a mirage. And the thing is, there were responsible journalists who looked at it skeptically from the start. Like the late, great Bob Parry at Consortium News. But the mass of the alleged liberal blogosphere, and the people at MSNBC, went along with it. In Maddow's case, she promoted it. Sure Rachel: Russia Gate, yes, JFK murder, no. But that is how crazy our MSM is. To me, the only explanation for this bizarre behavior is what I proferred earlier. Everyone out there, most of all Huffpost, predicted HRC was going to win the election. And they wanted her to win. They did not want Trump in the White House, plain and simple. So Russia Gate became the apparatus for how they were going to get rid of him. Well, unless Roger Stone says something like he was the go between for a Trump/Putin back channel, that will not work. Although there is no doubt that it served as a distraction and it plagued Trump. Maybe that was the aim all along. There is no doubt the Mass Media can get crazy. John Oliver had a great interview with Monica Lewinsky about the Clinton affair that I found very touching. It's a real shark tank and ordinary people can get caught up in it unawares and destroyed. Amanda Knox comes to mind also. I don't find what's happening to Trump to be unjustified however. He and many of his associate's public statements and actions gave rise to SC and it was formed under a unified government run by Republicans. Off the top of my head I'd really like to know the results of the Alpha Bank/Trump server communications issue and where Milsfud is according to the Mueller report. There was plenty of suspicious activity going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Carpenter Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Most of these folks are escaping the violence of drug cartels, the existence of which are due to the American appetite for getting loaded, and the legal prohibitions placed on that appetite. The American people have a huge responsibility for the plight of these people, and we need to meet these responsibilities. So the cartels are America's fault? I understand supply and demand but doesn't personal responsibility come in to play somewhere? Why did their government allow their country to be overrun and why don't they do something about it? They were offered asylum in Mexico and they need to accept that. If someone was trying to murder you at your house and you escaped would you run to the first person that could help or would you keep going until you got to a house of your liking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Most of these folks are escaping the violence of drug cartels, the existence of which are due to the American appetite for getting loaded, and the legal prohibitions placed on that appetite. The American people have a huge responsibility for the plight of these people, and we need to meet these responsibilities. 24 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said: So the cartels are America's fault? I understand supply and demand but doesn't personal responsibility come in to play somewhere? Why did their government allow their country to be overrun and why don't they do something about it? They were offered asylum in Mexico and they need to accept that. If someone was trying to murder you at your house and you escaped would you run to the first person that could help or would you keep going until you got to a house of your liking? Having personally known survivors of the holocaust who were fleeing the Nazis and turned away from several countries, I have a different perspective. Newer generations who have no idea of the historical basis for the TREATIES WE HAVE SPONSORED AND SIGNED regarding the treatment of asylum seekers at our borders will have no compunction whatsoever of discarding the victims without lending them an ear. Much of the subtext of their arguments are based on racism and xenophobia, the touchstones of the new extreme right and what Chomsky refers to as an "emotionally potent oversimplifications" which are necessary to move a large group to action. It's extremely important to fortify the oversimplification to dispense with our own responsibility. That is, it's easier to point the finger than change our behavior. Edited March 28, 2019 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said: Look, to say the Democrats did not push and inflate Russia Gate, along with their Democratic allies in the media, is just not being candid or honest. Buying Bill Barr's characterization of the Mueller Report is naive. The Dems didn't inflate anything, as the Mueller Report will lay out in great detail. Quote Rachel Maddow was the high priestess of the whole affair. She got to be sickening. Its like Adam Schiff was writing her reports. Josh Marshall at TPM was the male online equivalent of Maddow. So not only did people like Schiff push the whole thing to the outer limits, this was transmitted to the masses by people like Maddow and Marshall. And many others. These "many others" were doing their jobs -- reporting on the news Donald Trump et al were generating. DiEugenio doesn't yet realize that the Mueller Report lays out a case for collusion in great detail -- only the case doesn't rise to the level of an indictable offense. Quote But if Mueller's report holds, Russia Gate was a mirage. obstruction of justice committed while trying to cover up that collusion. No, that's Bill Barr's summary of the Mueller Report. The Mueller Report is hundreds of pages laying out in great detail the collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, and the cover-up obstruction. Quote And the thing is, there were responsible journalists who looked at it skeptically from the start. Like the late, great Bob Parry at Consortium News. But the mass of the alleged liberal blogosphere, and the people at MSNBC, went along with it. In Maddow's case, she promoted it. Sure Rachel: Russia Gate, yes, JFK murder, no. That is how gravely under-informed James DiEugenio is. He buys Bill Barr's weasel words... What a joke... Quote To me, the only explanation for this bizarre behavior is what I proferred earlier. Everyone out there, most of all Huffpost, predicted HRC was going to win the election. And they wanted her to win. They did not want Trump in the White House, plain and simple. So Russia Gate became the apparatus for how they were going to get rid of him. Spoken like a true Trumpian. Trump colluded with the Russians in plain view. Trump obstructed justice in plain view. But like all true Trumpians DiEugenio blames the libs for reporting on and reacting to news Trump generated. Go figure. Quote Well, unless Roger Stone says something like he was the go between for a Trump/Putin back channel, that will not work. Although there is no doubt that it served as a distraction and it plagued Trump. Maybe that was the aim all along. Amazing how the liberals forced Trump to hire Flynn, forced Flynn to lie about conversations with the Russians; forced Trump to hire Jeff Sessions, then forced Sessions to lie about meetings with the Russians; forced Kushner to seek a back channel to the Kremlin; forced Trump to fire Comey to squelch the RussiaGate investigation; forced Don Jr. to meet with Russians who promised dirt on Hillary then forced him to lie about it, etc. etc. ad infinitum... Donald Trump, the innocent apple of Jim DiEugenio's eye. Edited March 28, 2019 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said: So the cartels are America's fault? I understand supply and demand but doesn't personal responsibility come in to play somewhere? Why did their government allow their country to be overrun and why don't they do something about it? They were offered asylum in Mexico and they need to accept that. If someone was trying to murder you at your house and you escaped would you run to the first person that could help or would you keep going until you got to a house of your liking? International law states it's the applicant's option to apply wherever they want. The reason is simple. If you're a refugee from Nazi Germany, your argument would be the refugees should simply apply in Poland, where the ovens were waiting. People fleeing Guatemala may have family here or their pursuers may be FROM Mexico. You're oversimplifying IMO and I don't know that they have been offered asylum, since you haven't sourced your claim. That may be true, I just wonder if it's true for all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said: What are you asking? I don't know how you would quantify that. We all use services provided by the government every day. What I am asking is, how much does your plan actually cost? The money is not there to subsidize everybody. So your healthcare plan is not sustainable. Sure it is. Covered California is sustainable. I know that doesn't match the lies Trump says about it... I live in a place like Canada or Norway -- affordable health care, rent control, social security. I like to call it -- "civilization." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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