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Attorney's file on Roger Stone, LaRouche and Russia influencing the 2016 presidential election


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BTW, in reading an analysis of the Steele Dossier,  i read something that surprised me.

Steele had not been to Russia before he wrote it for a period of two decades?

I mean was there a reason that he did not go to Russia to do his field investigation in person?  Would the Russians have denied him entry or a passport?

To me that is a red flag.  Makes it even harder to think that the FBI took it as seriously as they did.

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16 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW, in reading an analysis of the Steele Dossier,  i read something that surprised me.

Steele had not been to Russia before he wrote it for a period of two decades?

I mean was there a reason that he did not go to Russia to do his field investigation in person?  Would the Russians have denied him entry or a passport?

To me that is a red flag.  Makes it even harder to think that the FBI took it as seriously as they did.

There is a reason. I believe he was outed as a spy there about 20 years ago. Probably not a safe place to go. 

 

Not that I know what spies do, but I would think if you were high level British intelligence and went into private practice after retiring, you’d maintain contacts. He reported what he was told. It wasn’t meant to be a charging document.

You know he was initially right-wing funded, right? Hillary picked it up after they bailed.

 

Edited by Andrew Prutsok
Thought of something else to better illustrate my point.
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20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The whole thing about AOC and Bernie and a few others is this: They have to widen the Overton Window.

Jim, That's a good point. It's one step at a time after decades of a media-controlled propaganda machine that would put Mussolini's Black Shirts to shame. A few members asked if the Warren thing actually happened. It did. See for example:

"Trump used a brief portion of his speech to express alarm at “new calls to adopt socialism in our country,” initially drawing groans from several Democrats. But he then offered a pledge that some couldn’t help but reluctantly agree with: “Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.” Of the 2020 gang, Gillibrand stood first and applauded enthusiastically, as Warren, Harris and Brown slowly stood and joined those clapping."
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/how-the-2020-democrats-reacted-to-trumps-state-of-the-union-address

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10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

There was no way I would vote for Harris or Gillibrand.

But now I have my doubts about Warren and Brown also.

Let us push open the Overton Window as to what its possible to talk about.

Looks like the allies of Trumpian fascism are hard at work attacking the Dems.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/20/2020-candidates-social-media-attack-1176018

You know where you can stick your Overton window, DiEugenio.

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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The thing is Rob, that in this country its OK to have socialism for the wealthy.  Because I think that is what happened in the 2007-08 Wall Street/ Stock market crash.

But somehow when you talk about universal health care, that was a no no.  If you recall, the Clintons took that off the table.  I could never understand why.

Socialism is simply when the government owns and operates certain industries and/or services.

This is done to keep the market honest and open.  I sure wish we had one oil company like that.  I mean does anyone think that gasoline really costs 3.49 a gallon?

But the middle class got steamrolled a long time ago in this country.  Robert Reich found that out pretty quickly under Clinton when a  congressman told him that directly when he was Secretary of Labor.  

The days when you will have a Democrat go on TV and denounce the steel companies for rigging prices are long one.

But hopefully, people like AOC and Bernie can bring them back. 

Edited by James DiEugenio
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Being the local political boss I control a voting bloc of one. My bloc won't decide whom to support for president until a year from now. However I can assure you that the decision then as to whom to vote for will be a unanimous one. I shall tolerate no dissent in the tradition of Boss Tweed.

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Let me add another point about the idea of the state subsidizing a service.

Many decades ago, when I attended college, I never paid a dollar for it.  In fact, the first two years, I never saw a tuition bill.  And I was going to a private Catholic college. 

When I would tell my students about this, they could not believe it.  But then I also told them that in the sixties, you could go to UCLA for free.  And you could.

The guy who changed this in California was Ronnie Ray-gun, you know, Mr Supply Side Economics. He was the first governor who charged tuition for UCLA.

Then, when he became president, he installed that jerk Bill Bennett as Secretary of Education and the assault on student aid really went into high gear. Today, unless you come from a rich family, its quite difficult to go to a good private, or even a public college and not come away with large debts. If you go into a profession, you are talking six figures in student loans.

Many people, including myself, look at these limits on aid as a way of stemming upward social mobility.  Or to put it in stark terms, keep them in East LA.

This is why I liked the Sanders ideas on higher education. 

This is another way of looking at it:   https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/us-military-spending-vs-world/

 

Edited by James DiEugenio
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6 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Looks like the allies of Trumpian fascism are hard at work attacking the Dems.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/20/2020-candidates-social-media-attack-1176018

You know where you can stick your Overton window, DiEugenio.

Analyzing events surrounding the JFK assassination can assist the cultivation of a healthy skeptical attitude and the development of critical thinking skills by which to wade through mucky discourse. Cliff’s counter-cultural background should position him well to be skeptical, and not denounce others for encouraging broader efforts for critical engagement.

The Politico article, used here to denounce such broader efforts, utilizes the following qualifying terms:   suggests, appear, suggests, appears, hints, signs, appearance, very cursory look, believed, coordinated in some way, appears on the surface, suspect, cannot conclusively, unclear, some contend, appears,

Despite these qualifications, the article encourages the reader to consider an alleged “recent surge in false narratives” alongside a “concerted push… to build false or derogatory narratives”. An example of such false narratives is given as follows:  painting more moderate candidates as unpalatable to progressives and more progressive candidates as unpalatable to more mainstream Dems.”

Oh my God! Look what the allies of “Trumpian fascism” are up to! Promoting voter choice based on policy differentiation - how wicked!

Further, these allies “aggressively advance conspiracy theories…ranging from misinformation about voter fraud to narratives involving a caravan coming to the United States”. Voter fraud has been very well documented by investigative journalists and academic researchers, and there was actually a caravan travelling through Mexico during last years midterms… without further clarification or context, to note the “aggressive advancement of conspiracy theories” regarding things which are true could appear to suggest that voter fraud/ caravan are, in fact, conspiracy theories in toto.

So who is behind all this supposed attempts to "sow discord"? The article suggests, without evidence or citation, it is “state supporters and funders…Russia. North Korea…Iran.” Interesting, a list which corresponds  to America’s identified enemies. No mention of the big story breaking since December of the activities of a British outfit called the Integrity Initiative, funded by the UK government and NATO, which engages “clusters” of journalists across Europe and North America, many working at legacy media such as The Guardian and Washington Post, to coordinate informational products designed to influence public opinion on international political issues. The documentation for this, unlike accusations against other state actors, is available and confirmed to be accurate.

It is also interesting that the promoted “solution” to largely speculative assumptions of misinformation campaigns is one of censorship: approval and encouragement for social media outlets to engage in widespread removal of allegedly offending information. A proper response in a healthy democracy would be the promotion of media literacy and critical thinking skills in the education system.

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Just now, James DiEugenio said:

in this country its OK to have socialism for the wealthy.  

To the naysayers of AOC and Bernie I always reply: "We're already a socialist country - we have Billionaire Socialism and Corporate Welfare." Those are the two pillars of government. Yeah, Bill Clinton's policy of so-called triangulation eviscerated the Democratic Party. When I was conducting interviews during the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, I met an older gentleman at the Foley Square rally who remarked: “Where are the Bobby Kennedys of our time? I’m a lifelong Democratic, but no one in the De­mocratic Party seems to care about us anymore.” (I included that in an essay that Barney Rosset of Grove Press fame published in one of the last issues of his online Evergreen Review, just before he died.) I thought that remark was very telling and reflected the stranglehold on the Democratic Party.

Edited by Rob Couteau
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3 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Analyzing events surrounding the JFK assassination can assist the cultivation of a healthy skeptical attitude and the development of critical thinking skills by which to wade through mucky discourse. Cliff’s counter-cultural background should position him well to be skeptical, and not denounce others for encouraging broader efforts for critical engagement.

From the article:

A POLITICO review of recent data extracted from Twitter and from other platforms, as well as interviews with data scientists and digital campaign strategists, suggests that the goal of the coordinated barrage appears to be undermining the nascent candidacies through the dissemination of memes, hashtags, misinformation and distortions of their positions. But the divisive nature of many of the posts also hints at a broader effort to sow discord and chaos within the Democratic presidential primary. [/q]

That doesn't strike me as "encouraging broader efforts for critical engagement."

Trump and his allies have elevated non-stop prevarication to "politics-as-usual."

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The Politico article, used here to denounce such broader efforts, utilizes the following qualifying terms:   suggests, appear, suggests, appears, hints, signs, appearance, very cursory look, believed, coordinated in some way, appears on the surface, suspect, cannot conclusively, unclear, some contend, appears,

Jeff exaggerates the "qualifications" in the article.

From the article:

Recent posts that have received widespread dissemination include racially inflammatory memes and messaging involving Harris, O’Rourke and Warren. In Warren’s case, a false narrative surfaced alleging that a blackface doll appeared on a kitchen cabinet in the background of the senator’s New Year’s Eve Instagram livestream...

[Kamala Harris] was also among the most targeted. One widely seen tweet employed racist and sexist stereotypes in an attempt to sensationalize Harris’ relationship with former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown. That tweet — and subsequent retweets and mentions tied to it — made 8.6 million “potential impressions” online, according to Guardians.ai, an upper limit calculation of the number of people who might have seen it based on the accounts the cluster follows, who follows accounts within the cluster and who has engaged with the tweet.

Another racially charged tweet was directed at O’Rourke. The Twitter profile of the user where it originated indicates the account was created in May 2018, but it had authored just one tweet since then — in January, when the account announced it had breaking news about the former Texas congressman leaving a message using racist language on an answering machine in the 1990s. That tweet garnered 1.3 million potential impressions on the platform, according to Guardians.ai. [/q]

Quote

Despite these qualifications, the article encourages the reader to consider an alleged “recent surge in false narratives” alongside a “concerted push… to build false or derogatory narratives”. An example of such false narratives is given as follows:  painting more moderate candidates as unpalatable to progressives and more progressive candidates as unpalatable to more mainstream Dems.”

Oh my God! Look what the allies of “Trumpian fascism” are up to! Promoting voter choice based on policy differentiation - how wicked!

Claiming Elizabeth Warren had a racist doll, or that Beto O'Rourke left a racist voice mail 25 years ago, or making hay out of Harris' relationship with Willie Brown have exactly what to do with policy differences?

In 2000 the Dubya Bush campaign spread word in South Carolina that John McCain fathered a mixed race child.  That kind of stuff was regarded as "dirty politics" in 2000 but now in 2019 the Trump apologists call it "policy differentiation."

Quote

Further, these allies “aggressively advance conspiracy theories…ranging from misinformation about voter fraud to narratives involving a caravan coming to the United States”. Voter fraud has been very well documented by investigative journalists and academic researchers,

Absolutely false.  Are you trying to gas-light us, Jeff?

Debunking the Voter Fraud Myth

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims. [/q]

Voter fraud as promoted by Trump and his allies is itself a fraud.  Investigative reporters such as Greg Palast have found widespread voter suppression by Republican politicians like Kris Kobach.  The fascists use "voter fraud" as a pre-text for making it hard or impossible to vote for millions of mostly minority voters.

The Election Was Stolen – Here’s How…

https://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

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and there was actually a caravan travelling through Mexico during last years midterms…

Most of them never made it to the border.  Most of them were women and children.  Most of them were seeking asylum from the violence of drug gangs which exist to supply the American appetite for getting loaded.

Jeff, have you ever met a Trump talking point you didn't love?

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without further clarification or context, to note the “aggressive advancement of conspiracy theories” regarding things which are true could appear to suggest that voter fraud/ caravan are, in fact, conspiracy theories in toto.

Voter fraud isn't true, it's a Big Lie.  Caravans of invading brown people isn't true, it's a Big Lie.

There is nothing illegal bout seeking asylum -- not that you'd get that impression from Trump apologists.

 

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So who is behind all this supposed attempts to "sow discord"? The article suggests, without evidence or citation, it is “state supporters and funders…Russia. North Korea…Iran.”

The article cited the following:

https://www.iwr.ai/voterfraud/index.html#top

Quote

 

Interesting, a list which corresponds  to America’s identified enemies. No mention of the big story breaking since December of the activities of a British outfit called the Integrity Initiative, funded by the UK government and NATO, which engages “clusters” of journalists across Europe and North America, many working at legacy media such as The Guardian and Washington Post, to coordinate informational products designed to influence public opinion on international political issues. The documentation for this, unlike accusations against other state actors, is available and confirmed to be accurate.

I denounce all disinformation efforts whether it's funded by Russia, the US, the UK, Iran, North Korea or NATO.

Unlike you, Jeff, I won't apologize for any of it.

Quote

It is also interesting that the promoted “solution” to largely speculative assumptions of misinformation campaigns is one of censorship: approval and encouragement for social media outlets to engage in widespread removal of allegedly offending information. A proper response in a healthy democracy would be the promotion of media literacy and critical thinking skills in the education system.

You posit vast Republican-on-Republican political crime -- Republican judges and Republican Justice Department officials going after Republican politicians for political reasons.

I see no critical thinking in any of that.

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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3 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Yes it was very telling.  It shows some people remember.

 

Here is a good story on the Integrity Initiative.

https://consortiumnews.com/2019/01/10/covert-british-military-smear-machine-moving-into-us/

British mis-information -- bad.

Russian misinformation -- what Russian misinformation? nothing to see here, move along...

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