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The Stamp on the Military ID card


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I'm no photo-editing guru but I know how to do some basic stuff with layers. So, I used the version of Oswald's ID in which I highlighted the circles and then lay the Nagell version on top while trying to line them up. I fiddled with the Nagell copy opacity and concentrated on the numbers at the top, the box they are contained in and the capital "N". Some unexpected things happen in regards to the photo. I was really surprised that the extant photo edge seems to line up so well. I might have to rethink the Nagell copy photo. Also check out the obvious signature issue.  Was some "artwork" introduced to a really poor photocopy of the extant ID? What do you think?

1173_ozzy_nagel1.jpg

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43 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

I'm no photo-editing guru but I know how to do some basic stuff with layers. So, I used the version of Oswald's ID in which I highlighted the circles and then lay the Nagell version on top while trying to line them up. I fiddled with the Nagell copy opacity and concentrated on the numbers at the top, the box they are contained in and the capital "N". Some unexpected things happen in regards to the photo. I was really surprised that the extant photo edge seems to line up so well. I might have to rethink the Nagell copy photo. Also check out the obvious signature issue.  Was some "artwork" introduced to a really poor photocopy of the extant ID? What do you think?

1173_ozzy_nagel1.jpg


That's very good. I don't know why I didn't think of doing that. Well, maybe because the Nagell copy is so bad.

Like you, I'm surprised the borders of the two photos line up so well. But they do appear to be different photos. The photo doesn't strike me as being Nagell's because there's too much hair. Well, I did see a photo of a younger Nagell where he had taller hair. But in that photo the part in his hair is on his left side. In his ID photo the part seems to be in his right side. Possibly both sides... that is to say, combed back straight, and receding on both the left and right. In which case the photo might actually be Nagell.

I just found the ID card and yes, the hair on the photo does seem to be combed straight back. That indeed could be Nagell IMO if he had tall hair then.

Anyway, the photos are definitely different unless Nagell or somebody drew on the different hair style and clothing. I do believe it's a different photo, and so somebody must have cut the new photo to fit precisely over the old one. But here's the rub.... The Oswald photo is from Russia and was added later. It seems that the copy in Nagell's possession had to have been made after the Minsk photo was in place.... so that the Nagell photo could be precisely placed over the Minsk one. And yet, the silly stamping was not yet on the Oswald ID when the Nagell copy was made. In other words, this timeline:

  1. The Oswald ID has the original photo.
  2. The photo is removed and the Minsk photo is attached.
  3. A copy is made for Nagell. Nagell (or somebody) precisely pastes a new photo over where the old one was.
  4. The silly stamps are applied to the Oswald ID.

That's not as clean a sequence as I'd like. It seems that #2 should be together with #4.

I wonder if the following could have happened instead:

  1. The Oswald ID has the original photo.
  2. A copy is made for Nagell. Nagell (or somebody) precisely pastes a new photo over where the old one was.
  3. The photo is removed from the Oswald ID and the Minsk photo is precisely pasted over where the old one was.
  4. The silly stamps are applied to the Oswald ID.

This scenario keeps the pasting of the Minsk photo and the silly stamping together, where they seem to belong. But it kinda throws a wrench into my hypothesis. The hypothesis states that the Minsk photo and silly stamping were done because it was a rush job and they had few resources. Well if it was a rush job, then why bother making the new photo fit perfectly where the old one was?

Okay, maybe what happened is that the paper surface pulled away from the card stock when the original photo was removed. And maybe the person doing this didn't want that area to be seen, as that would reveal that the photo had been changed. And so he 1) used the original photo (which he'd just pulled off) as a guide for trimming the Minsk photo to the correct size; then 2) he carefully pasted the Minsk photo straight and in the right position to cover up the pulled up paper fibers.

(Sorry this is so long.)

Okay, that's the scenario I'm gonna go with. Because 1) it is believable; and 2) not going with it would cause other difficulties.

Happily I don't need to alter my hypothesis.

Now, beside the photo....

I doubt that that is Oswald's signature, as the bottom of the letters is very flat and straight. It's like the person signing it had a straight edge he couldn't drop below. To me it seems like the person isn't even trying to copy Oswald's signature. The only thing that seems a little Oswaldesque is that leading horizontal line attached to the "H." initial. But then, I just checked and that turns out to be standard cursive for an "H."

Yeah, so I have to say that that isn't Oswald's signature, and it's not even trying to be Oswald's.

As for lamination, the handwriting used to darken the "62" on the "1962" seems to suggest there is no plastic. Isn't it difficult to write on plastic with a pen? I'd think the ink would bead up and not look too good. And anything that did stick would easily rub off. That's my recollection of what happens when you write on a plastic with ink.

Do you see anything I missed? Or disagree with any of my opinions?

 

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4 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Do you see anything I missed? Or disagree with any of my opinions?

I'm not convinced about the photo yet...

I can wiggle the layer to match up the facial features and left ear pretty good with the extant photo but I'll lose a tiny bit of alignment on the numbers at the top. I think this can be attributed to the really, really, really poor condition of the copy.

My theory about this copy is that it came, originally, from a 1963 style facsimile machine and it was stretched a little. We remember those things right?.

It also appears, to me, that the necktie and the suit area were actually drawn in by hand. When I line up the facial features the shoulders also line up and the photo border looks great but then Oswald appears to have no neck at all.

I'll post an adjusted montage with the face aligned soon.

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7 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:
23 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Do you see anything I missed? Or disagree with any of my opinions?

I'm not convinced about the photo yet...

I can wiggle the layer to match up the facial features and left ear pretty good with the extant photo but I'll lose a tiny bit of alignment on the numbers at the top. I think this can be attributed to the really, really, really poor condition of the copy.

My theory about this copy is that it came, originally, from a 1963 style facsimile machine and it was stretched a little. We remember those things right?.

It also appears, to me, that the necktie and the suit area were actually drawn in by hand. When I line up the facial features the shoulders also line up and the photo border looks great but then Oswald appears to have no neck at all.

I'll post an adjusted montage with the face aligned soon.


I see what you mean. It's quite a coincidence that, in comparing the two photos:

  • The heads are the same size.
  • The nose shadows are on the same side.
  • The lip shadows are in the same place.
  • In both there is more hair on their right sides than their left.
  • Oswald has a fleshy area between his eye end eyebrow on his left side. I can actually see it on the Nagell ID photo!


Now for the differences:

  • On the Nagell ID, the man's right receding hairline goes back farther.
  • On the Nagell ID, the man's shoulders are higher and more square.
  • On the Nagell ID, the man is wearing a tie. But damn, the knot of the tie is at the level of his chin. The top of the tie, that is.

I'm now inclined to believe that the photos are the same, and that Nagel or somebody drew a new hairline and shirt and tie with a pencil.

Why would somebody do that?

I think this messes up my hypotheses pretty good. I'm gonna have to get some sleep and start out fresh... see if I can salvage my story.

Hopefully I'll wake up and find you've proven that that's a picture of Nagell. But somehow I seriously doubt that's gonna happen.   :blink:

 

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Mini-hypothesis:

When somebody pasted the Minsk photo on, one person said, "Hey, I can hide that old stamp mark by stamping some circles and some dates and other text." The other person replied, "That ain't nothin'! I can hide it by drawing a suit coat on the photo with my artist's pencil. Cover that white semicircle right up! And while I'm at it I think I'll give him a dress shirt and tie, and draw him a new hair style to boot!"

Could this thing simply be a case of two guys seeing who could better solve a problem?

 

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 If you will, focus your attention on boxes #6 and #7 where Oswald’s height and weight are entered. On the Oswald card, it reads  71”, 145,  but on the card associated with Richard Nagell, it reads, 7 L”, J 45.

I’m going to translate the numbers to letters (key at the bottom). "7 L inches J45" = “H L inches JEF”. This anagrams to:

“LEE H, JF’S CHIN”

Next, I’m going to anagram “DD Form 1173” and translate only one letter, a “D” to a “3”.

“3-D FROM 1173”

On August 30 on this thread, the first post on page 11, Sandy posted four photos for me. Both pairs of photos are: one from DD Form 1173, and the other from to Alek J Hidell card. The only difference between the top and bottom pairs is that their order is reversed. If you have a Stereoscope, or access to one, take a look at those photos (link below). The top two photos are merely there for comparison, and the bottom pair show a slight but discernible amount of 3-D. 

59a7773777176_OswaldQuartet.jpeg.4c9de1647cb8b79ce9aaa389d4d2a0e0.jpeg

Both Sandy and I perceived the slight amount of 3-D in the chin area, but it’s admittedly subtle. It's possible to use a Stereoscope directly on your monitor. The pair of images should be sized so that, say, Oswald's right and left noses are 3 inches apart. 

Back to the topic of the LO/JFK chin. Lee Oswald’s chin was more pointed than the chin on the DD Form 1173, and he had a bit of cleft to it. Kennedy’s chin was broader and more rounded with just a hint of a cleft.

Those that are handy with “opacity”, find some head-on photos of Kennedy and compare chins. 

Now that I’m a better hand with opacity, I’m going make a new set of four photos similar to the ones linked above, and maybe I can talk Sandy into posting them for me again. 

I don't know what this exercise could prove, other than lend credence to my contention that Richard Case Nagell was making enigmas and puzzles surrounding everything having to do with his associate, Lee Oswald, and that this 1173 card is a set of puzzles. 

"RICHARD CASE NAGELL" anagrams to:

"R'S CARD GALA: LEE CHIN"

(Maybe that's what the black tie is all about)

 (A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25)

 
Edited by Tom Hume
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You’ve got to see this!

Now that I know how to do opacity, I’ve re-aligned the DD Form 1173 photo and the photo from the bogus SSS Alek J Hidell card. Back in August, I’d thought that the two photos should display a 3-D images when viewed through a Stereoscope. And they sort-of did. But it’s not the Oswald head that’s in 3-D, it’s his chin. And the chin appears to belong to JFK, and was applied to the Oswald figure’s face. 

The two images under discussion need to be rotated 84 degrees to display the 3-D chin: 11+73 degrees. The Backyard Photos, on the other hand, need to be rotated 88 degrees: 4+11+73 degrees. This is all information I’ve derived from Richard Nagell’s puzzle system. 

I’m unable to post photos right now, and I’ve sent the new set of images to Sandy (and I’ve twisted his arm a little), hoping he’ll post them for me. The 1173 photos and BYP are part of the same puzzle group, and I’ve asked Sandy to post both sets.

While were waiting to see if that can happen, call all of your friends and relatives and see if you can borrow a Stereoscope. 

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e8/33/d4/e833d44256637186d9c013e7aac698ac--antique-china-antique-glass.jpg  

 
 
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15 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I see what you mean. It's quite a coincidence that, in comparing the two photos:

  • The heads are the same size.
  • The nose shadows are on the same side.
  • The lip shadows are in the same place.
  • In both there is more hair on their right sides than their left.
  • Oswald has a fleshy area between his eye end eyebrow on his left side. I can actually see it on the Nagell ID photo!

 

Sandy,

If you look at the "Minsk" photo (CE 2892)

You can observe a black dot on Oswalds' neck, it seems to be covered on the Nagell "copy" by a slash mark but.... If you look at the Oswald DD 1173 photo you can easily see the same black dot. So, I think that CE 2892 is a copy of the same photo used on the Oswald DD1173 (less the stamp marks).

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0191b.htm

What say you?

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8 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Sandy,

If you look at the "Minsk" photo (CE 2892)

You can observe a black dot on Oswalds' neck, it seems to be covered on the Nagell "copy" by a slash mark but.... If you look at the Oswald DD 1173 photo you can easily see the same black dot. So, I think that CE 2892 is a copy of the same photo used on the Oswald DD1173 (less the stamp marks).

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0191b.htm

What say you?

 

Yes I agree, absolutely.

Presumably CE 2892 is the very same photo as we see in the upper-right corner of this photo:

 

ozzy_photos.jpg

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59baa462eb57e_OswaldsStampkitwithsamedateasvaccinationneededtoleaveMexicowhichmatchesFPCCfliers-smaller.thumb.jpg.3b948d18edf66471ca5d1a2bfe20a771.jpg

 

David Josephs posted this in the Harvey & Lee thread. Look at the immunization document at the very bottom. Oswald used this document to get into Mexico without having to be immunized. Note the Dr. A.J. Hideel stamp and signature. (LOL) Clearly an Oswald forgery.

The part of this relevant to this thread is that official looking stamp to the right of Dr. Hideel's signature. It consists of a very large circle, and it looks like a small portion of a smaller circle. It has a date in English, but the text at the top-right and bottom-left appears to be from a Russian stamp. If you zoom in you can see a double-stamped "NAO" on the bottom, where the "N" is in reverse. And you can see "UR8" at the top, where the "R" is in reverse. Oh wait... while both the reversed letters are part of the Russian alphabet, and most the other letters are as well, there is no "U" in the Russian alphabet. So those stamps must be REVERSED English ones! Where could someone buy a reverse English stamp back then? (Apparently you can buy such a stamp now. See this.)

Unlike the text stamped on Oswald's military ID, the text stamped here is curved. Though it doesn't match the curvature of the circle. So I guess that each letter was stamped individually.

Anyway, the stamping here makes it look more likely that Oswald did do the silly stamping on the military ID card. And maybe it wasn't silly after all.

But if it was serious work, who did Oswald expect to fool? Certainly not any guard on a military base. And why didn't he just use a current photo of himself so he wouldn't need to hide the prior security stamp on the photo he did use?

I wonder if he and Nagell were simply practicing some CIA spycraft. Oswald did it with stamps, Nagell did it with artist's pencils.

 

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A solution to the Immunization Card riddle:

I will be working with the date, “Jun 8, 1963”, the Doctor’s name, “Dr. A. J. Hideel”, and the blur of letters inside the stamp on the right.

Translating the numbers to letters in “Jun 8, 1963”, we get, “JUN I TGD”. This anagrams to:

“DIG ‘J’ NUT”

Who the “J NUT” is, gets answered by anagramming, “Dr. A. J. Hideel”:

“A J.E.H. RIDDLE”

What J Edgar Hoover's "RIDDLE" is, gets answered in the next anagram. The letters inside the circle need to be seen in mirror image, and 8 of these are blurred, they are double struck. With the circle mirrored, then, we have:

“BBRRUU IINN CCAANN NUL”

The third letter from the end, “N”, is actually reversed, like a cyrillic letter, but I’m going to use it as an “N” because it’s meaning will become clear in the anagram of, “BBRRUU IINN CCAANN NUL”:

“I IN CUBA BLUR, CN RUN. N N/A” 

Lots of double entendres here, but it was “I” (Igor) that impersonated Oswald in the Cuba blur, “CN” (Case Nagell) ran off to the jail house, and that backwards “N”, is “N/A” (as the left-leaning Nagell was N/A after Sep 20).

Clever.

(A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) 

 
Edited by Tom Hume
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Apropos of the "Hideel" Immunization form,

“RICHARD CASE NAGELL” anagrams to:

“RCN, HIDEEL RASCAL. A 6”

The 6th word on the Immunization form is, “REVACCINATION”, and this anagrams to:

“RCN/IV,  A ‘E’ ACTION” 

“E” is Richard’s puzzle term for the assassination. It stands for “Edgar”. 

A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) 

 
Edited by Tom Hume
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Just thinking aloud, random thoughts...

Could the "postage stamps" on the extant Oswald DD 1173 been put there to obfuscate or hide a real stamp that wasn't a "postage stamp"?

How does Nagell, the decorated Army Capt., get an Air Force DD 1173?

In my own experience the most important document a soldier receives when they ETS from the service is the DD 214. So 2 questions, where was the Oswald copy of his DD 214 when he was in the USSR and are the signatures on that document, (the DD 214), of Lt. Ayers and Oswald real, or do you think they are forgeries as well?

ozzy-dd214.jpg

Edited by Chris Newton
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If someone has a copy of The Man Who Knew Too Much you might want to check into some remarks I think I recall Nagell having made to Russell.  Its a vague recollection of Nagell saying that during his brief contacts with Oswald in 1963 he gave him some tutoring on forging documents.  Not really good ones but training class stuff.  Perhaps this card represents a rework, paste up, practice type effort just as the one with Nagell's photos does.  Anyway, might be worth looking into if anyone wants to scan through Russell's book....I don't think I'm making that up but its been a very long time since my last read.

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