Sandy Larsen Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, Chris Newton said: Top one is Richard C.Nagell's -sorry for the size of the image... it's all I have atm. Yikes! What an awful copy. Maybe that explains why some authors say that Nagell had a DD 1173 card with Oswald's info on it, and others say he had a photocopy of it. There no way of knowing from that. Thanks for posting that. Edited September 17, 2017 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said: I can only speak for myself. I don't pretend to have a lock on the impersonation theories. However, I do believe it's likely that there was only one LHO impersonator up through at least the Marine Corps years. Relax. I'm not trying to start a fight. Maybe just a tiny chip. I'm just maybe a little defensive because every thread I've seen on the subject of an assassin impersonating Oswald and coming out of Russia devolves into a Harvey and Lee thread. Despite the fact that that scenario could occur independent of H&L theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Yikes! What an awful copy. Maybe that explains why some authors say that Nagell had a DD 1173 card with Oswald's info on it, and others say he had a photocopy of it. There no way of knowing from that. Thanks for posting that. Actually I learned something interesting from that image. If you look at the box directly under the "AF" or the "N" you will see they are different on each card. Oswald's had a "full" box and Nagell's has two boxes. The cards are from two different "series" and versions. Oswald's is the version PRE 1961 and Nagell's is the version POST 1961. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 On 8/23/2017 at 5:22 PM, Jim Hargrove said: Jim, Here are the ID cards directly from John's collection... These appear not to be same card in both images. The shirts are not the same. Also, he wouldn't have this color card as it is for dependents of military. His would have been either light blue or light green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: Sandy, What "related difficulty" are you talking about? Jim, I'm referring to the apparent fact that Harvey used a Lee DD1173 card to get a Lee passport in order to fake a defection to the Soviet Union. I can't think of any reason why he would do that. Why not use a Harvey DD 1173 to get a Harvey passport instead? However, having done that would explain why Harvey would later remove the photo (of Lee) from the DD 1173 and replace it with the one that looks more like himself (the Minsk photo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko said: These appear not to be same card in both images. The shirts are not the same. Also, he wouldn't have this color card as it is for dependents of military. His would have been either light blue or light green. Hi Anna, It's just the quality of the two images that makes it look like he's wearing a shirt with no collar in the black and white image you linked. I entirely agree that he never should have had this card. Inactive reservists and/or their dependents don't get this card either. This image is a better copy of the undamaged DD 1173 and if you zoom in you can faintly see the collar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: Hi Anna, It's just the quality of the two images that makes it look like he's wearing a shirt with no collar in the black and white image you linked. I entirely agree that he never should have had this card. Inactive reservists and/or their dependents don't get this card either. This image is a better copy of the undamaged DD 1173 and if you zoom in you can faintly see the collar: 2 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: Hi Anna, It's just the quality of the two images that makes it look like he's wearing a shirt with no collar in the black and white image you linked. I entirely agree that he never should have had this card. Inactive reservists and/or their dependents don't get this card either. This image is a better copy of the undamaged DD 1173 and if you zoom in you can faintly see the collar: Hi Chris, I have this color military ID card and I am a dependent of retired AF CMSGT. When I did security on the base I handle many ID cards foreign and homeland. It appears that whom ever manufactured this one never consider it would put in color for all to see but just a black and white copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko said: Also, he wouldn't have this color card as it is for dependents of military. His would have been either light blue or light green. The card that he "officially" got at separation (ETS) is listed on his DD 214. He received DD-217-MC. Which was also later found later and photographed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: Actually I learned something interesting from that image. If you look at the box directly under the "AF" or the "N" you will see they are different on each card. Oswald's had a "full" box and Nagell's has two boxes. The cards are from two different "series" and versions. Oswald's is the version PRE 1961 and Nagell's is the version POST 1961. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko said: I have this color military ID card and I am a dependent of retired AF CMSGT. When I did security on the base I handle many ID cards foreign and homeland. It appears that whom ever manufactured this one never consider it would put in color for all to see but just a black and white copy. That photo is really black and white - the tinge of green isn't on the card itself and the photograph isn't of a sufficient resolution to see the detail on the high resolution color photo. The Oswald ID would have been immediately taken away from him by any Military Guards on any US base - (I did that too!) it wasn't laminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Chris Newton said: That photo is really black and white - the tinge of green isn't on the card itself and the photograph isn't of a sufficient resolution to see the detail on the high resolution color photo. The Oswald ID would have been immediately taken away from him by any Military Guards on any US base - (I did that too!) it wasn't laminated. As far as color I was referring to the bloody stained one. You are correct, if not laminated confiscated with lots of questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Just now, Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko said: As far as color I was referring to the bloody stained one. You are correct, if not laminated confiscated with lots of questions. By the way, welcome to the Forum! The "blood stains" are actually residue left over from the FBI investigation. I don't know if they were trying to reveal fingerprints or hidden information but many of the items in the wallet all now have the same blotches all over them. This "process" that was done on the items after they were photographed undamaged when they were found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko said: You are correct, if not laminated confiscated with lots of questions. As someone who carried this card, what do you think the chances are that a Marine could "steal" one and use it to get a US passport while he was still assigned to a Separation Unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Chris Newton said: By the way, welcome to the Forum! The "blood stains" are actually residue left over from the FBI investigation. I don't know if they were trying to reveal fingerprints or hidden information but many of the items in the wallet all now have the same blotches all over them. This "process" that was done on the items after they were photographed undamaged when they were found. Thank you Chris. I was on here quite awhile ago decided to see how much has changed. What you say concerning the blotches has many questions coming to mind for another time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: As someone who carried this card, what do you think the chances are that a Marine could "steal" one and use it to get a US passport while he was still assigned to a Separation Unit? Possibility ratio: 100%. Edited September 17, 2017 by Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko Additional info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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