The Stamp on the Military ID card

[Chris Newton]

6 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

But why would anyone bother to do that?

If it is true that the original photo was changed, what was unacceptable about the original photo?

Could the original photo have shown a face that is not the same as the face we currently associate with Oswald?

I was speculating Jim because I don't know.

If the card was given to Oswald at El Toro by MACS and Lt. Ayers how did it get a picture on it that wasn't taken yet?

Ayers says there's no way he would have given that card to Oswald. I agree.

[Jim Hargrove]

Isn't it fascinating, though, that the Oswald ID Nagel had also had a different mug shot and a different signature?  Could the Oswald photo and signature on Nagel's version of the card be what actually appeared on the original "Lee Harvey Oswald DoD ID card?

[James DiEugenio]

You know I think Chris is right.

All the documentation i can find just says that the WC decided that photo was taken in Minsk. And that white patch in the lower right is there also.  

Sure wish Jack White was around to tell us more about it.

Edited August 29, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Sandy Larsen]

14 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

20 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

If that happened, Sandy, wouldn't the text etc., be reversed?

That's usually what happens.

LOL, yeah that's usually what happens. Good point Ray.  (And good joke, Mark.)

That eliminates the sticky-transfer possibility. Which is fine with me because it seems that the stamped circles belong with the whited out part of the photo.

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Isn't it fascinating, though, that the Oswald ID Nagel had also had a different mug shot and a different signature?  Could the Oswald photo and signature on Nagel's version of the card be what actually appeared on the original "Lee Harvey Oswald DoD ID card?

Yes. That's a possibility.

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Sure wish Jack White was around to tell us more about it.

Jack left us with something:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48770#relPageId=31&tab=page

[Sandy Larsen]

12 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

An aid to visualizing the circles:

 

Very useful Chris. This shows IMO that the circle segments on the photo are actually in alignment with the ones not on the photo.

But what of the yellow and green segments? Did you determine that they are not two parts of a single circle? If they aren't, then there are actually four stamps of a circle on the ID!

 

[Sandy Larsen]

11 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

NKVD issued passport circa 1940-45. Note the photo and NKVD stamp.

 

1946 Soviet Passport. Note the Photo and stamp

 

Wow, a brilliant find Chris!

This explains the whited out part of the photo, and how it and the stamp are parts of an anti-tampering system. You can't just simply change the photo to someone else's. At least that my take on what the stamp is for.

 

[Chris Newton]

Just now, Sandy Larsen said:

But what of the yellow and green segments? Did you determine that they are not two parts of a single circle? If they aren't, then there are actually four stamps of a circle on the ID!

I don't know if the yellow one is a "stamp" or not. But, it seemed like it could be. The green one is on the photo. I don't think there is a corresponding "circle portion" on the card that matches up with the green arc. There could be three stamps on the card.

I don't put myself out here as a photoshop expert. If someone else wants to take a stab - be my guest.

[Sandy Larsen]

It seems, then, that somebody was trying to simulate a Soviet-style anti-tampering stamp on the card, by first painting the corner of the photo white in a semicircular shape, and then stamping the ID with a circular stamp three or four times. After which the person stamped it with a date of Oct. 23, 1963, using three different stamps, each of which was angled differently in an attempt to follow the curvature of the circles.

Why would anybody want to put a Soviet style stamp on an American ID card? It strikes me as something a kid might do for kicks. Just goofing around.

Or maybe he was experimenting.

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Ian Lloyd]

On 8/28/2017 at 1:12 AM, Tom Hume said:

Yo Sandy, I think the corner letters are “IUL” and the number “91” is written over the first letter, the “I”.

 

Could the "IUL" be a cropped "JULY"?

[Ian Lloyd]

19 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

NKVD issued passport circa 1940-45. Note the photo and NKVD stamp.

 

1946 Soviet Passport. Note the Photo and stamp

The edge of whited out quadrant in the bottom RIGHT hand corner of these photographs looks very clear and crisp - as if done during developing of the photograph (as disc placed over the corner?) whereas IMO the quadrant on the LHO photograph looks quite irregular as if it's been done by hand.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Ian Lloyd
Correction in bold...

[Ian Lloyd]

On 8/28/2017 at 1:12 AM, Tom Hume said:

Yo Sandy, I think the corner letters are “IUL” and the number “91” is written over the first letter, the “I”.

 

Could what appears to be a '9' actually be an upside down '6'?

[Tom Hume]

Hi Ian,

Sure, the “9” could be an upside down “6”, but then the number “1” with the typical little hook on the top wouldn’t work.

I’ll explain my thinking: It’s my hypothesis that Richard Case Nagell was embedding his puzzles in most of Oswald’s activities. So I try to think like Nagell, find as many of his puzzle pieces as possible, and if I’m on track, the puzzle pieces start fitting together into something coherent and informative. 

Since I had suspected that the three corner letters were “IUL” and I saw no meaning in that, I tried to imagine what RCN wanted us to do to make them meaningful, and I picked the most obvious phrase I could think of:

“IUL CORNER”

And this anagrammed to:

“OUR LIE. RCN”

Since Richard C Nagell also had a somewhat silly version of the DD Form 1173, this anagram seemed to make some sense. But Nagell had a gift, in my view, for packing several pertinent anagrams into his puzzle parts so I looked further. 

But if you haven’t been following my posts, I need to explain something before I continue. 

According to my reading of the puzzles, Oswald was directed by his handlers to buy a rifle and a hand gun through the mail. This, of course, guaranteed a paper trail for his patsy bona fides. But Richard pulled one of his many stunts, found a similar Mannlicher Carcano, and gave it his own puzzled up serial number, “C 2766” (a number which has rather profound meaning). In the puzzles, Richard calls this rifle a “Ringer Rod”, usually abbreviated “RR”. This was one of his “BIG” stunts, and this was the rifle that caused Hoover a ton of grief on assassination day because it didn’t match the Oswald paper trail. 

Another anagram of “IUL CORNER” is:

“CLUE: RR ON I”

So looking on the “I” in “IUL” we see what appears to be the small hand-written number, “91”, which does fit somewhat with Richard’s “RR” (Ringer Rod) Carcano, model 91/38”

One of Richard’s big stunts was creating this substitute rifle, but the main stunt, another big lie (“Our Lie. RCN) was to be performed on assassination day by one of Richard’s civilian recruits, Jerry Belknap, and the number “91” translates to the letters:

“JB” 

JB's stunt was designed to force the motorcade to take an alternative route.

“OUR LIE. RCN” = The DD Form 1173, the Carcano 91/38, and Jerry Belknap.

I'm not really making an argument for this, it's just one possible puzzle piece.

Tom

Letter/Number key:

A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Tom Hume

[James DiEugenio]

The whited out part of the photo on the lower right appears in the same shot in the WC. 

Before there was an over stamp on it.

This is getting more and more puzzling. And again, its left to the critics to figure out what the heck it all means.