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The Stamp on the Military ID card


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3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
4 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

I like that idea but shouldn't he also have a "Soviet style" identification book with a photo and whatever KGB authorization he needed? How does an American walk around in Minsk in 1962 for five minutes and not hear "show me your papers"?

Yeah, but the Russkies might have confiscated his walking papers to let him go, no?  However, any idea what a photo ID on those papers would look like?


Jim,

In my searching around I found that 1) stamping over the photo was a common thing in Europe at the time; and 2) they would do that for all kinds of IDs.

Here's a Soviet ID for some kind of sports union:
 

MS-Card-and-Pin11.jpg


(BTW, note the triangular white area on the photo.)

Oswald might have had a number of ID cards. For example, a residency card and a work permit.

 

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9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Where are we on this now?

Are we leaning toward the idea its a fraud?

If so, by who?  And for what purpose?

But why would Oswald still carry it if its was expired?

After what I've read on here and a Little elsewhere JMO  of a Theory, yes it was a fraud, and it was planted by Someone else.  No real clue who.

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Since there’s currently a lull in the thread, possibly due to the snag in the 1173 circle area, I’ll submit a couple of anagrams of the day. Here’s an anagram of “RICHARD CASE NAGELL:

“1173 CIRCLE AREA SNAG”

Also, there seems to be a great big “G” in middle of those circles - maybe Nagell did this on purpose? “RICHARD CASE NAGELL” also anagrams to:

“N CIRCLES A 1173 ‘G’ AREA”

A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) 

 
Edited by Tom Hume
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The lull on this thread persists, so I’ll posit a riddle. The Oswald 1173 card and Nagell’s obviously forged copy of that card have a companion card. The forged Alek J Hidell Selective Service card that was supposedly found in Oswald’s wallet on assassination day. There are several red flags on the card, and one of them is the fact that the alias, “Alek J Hidell,” is signed in bright green ink. Why is this?

Answer: Because the name of the card's forger, “RICHARD CASE NAGELL”, anagrams to:

“LH GREEN ALIAS CARD. C”

Or,

"LH CARD, GREEN ALIAS. C"

“C”, Richard C Nagell, told us stories, hundreds of them, stories about the assassination plot that he and his friend Lee Oswald were tangled up in. To hear these stories, one might need to listen in a new way.  

 
 
Edited by Tom Hume
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I see three theories on this:

 

1.  Its genuine and was issued to LHO upon his leaving Santa Anna. 

  The problems with this are: Why is it not laminated? How did the over stamp get there?  Why did LHO not renew it?  Why is it the wrong card?

 

2.  Oswald himself created the card.

 Why would he do that if he already had a card?  And if he did forge it, why did he do such a bad job?

 

3.  An outside party forged it for him. Maybe Nagell.

Possible, but for what purpose?  Especially if LHO already had one.  

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On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:45 AM, Chris Newton said:

An aid to visualizing the circles:

cmn_best_circles.jpg

 

Here's a bit more detail on those circles...  I'm not so sure about the 3rd circle and please notice the "JUL" within the original appears to have been stamped onto the original version or some intermediate version...  that circle doesn't appear to extend into the card... 

 

This is what It SHOULD have looked like when issued:

 

 

Edited by David Josephs
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On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 10:43 AM, James DiEugenio said:

I see three theories on this:

 

1.  Its genuine and was issued to LHO upon his leaving Santa Anna. 

  The problems with this are: Why is it not laminated? How did the over stamp get there?  Why did LHO not renew it?  Why is it the wrong card?

 

2.  Oswald himself created the card.

 Why would he do that if he already had a card?  And if he did forge it, why did he do such a bad job?

 

3.  An outside party forged it for him. Maybe Nagell.

Possible, but for what purpose?  Especially if LHO already had one.  

Other than the photo, the details on the card match the original Lee Oswald...  5'11"  145lbs  (The "165" comes from a later source adding confusion to the situation)

While forged, easily recognized, I don't believe that mattered at all...  No one would be questioning it and it serves to connect the "Patsy" to the Lee Oswald Marine history...

*** Are there any other items with images to connect Harvey to the Marines? ***  

The original Lee was made to disappear with an entire history created for the impostor by combining the activities/histories of 2 men.  Just ask John Ely, Jenner and Leibeler.

The same photo appears on the SSS cards

 

Edited by David Josephs
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Hi David,

If I have this right, military cards were and are standardized at 2 1/8 inches. This question may seem trivial, but maybe not. Can you make an educated guess as to the diameter of the red and blue circles?

I favor the photo-letters being “IUL” with a tiny hand-written number “91” on the “I”, but maybe not.  

Tom

 
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And with this card - also using a 1960 photo and resizing the text....  we have identical photos of Harvey relating him to his Service.

As my series states, The Evidence IS the Conspiracy in each and every aspect...

To answer the "WHY" question we need only look at the hubris of the perpetrators...  

There simply wasn't anything that couldn't or wouldn't be changed to help incriminate Harvey

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=358&tab=page  is the start of the COLE exhibits.  #5 is the unmarked version of #6 it appears... but I don't see how

 

 

Edited by David Josephs
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4 minutes ago, Tom Hume said:

 

Hi David,

If I have this right, military cards were and are standardized at 2 1/8 inches. This question may seem trivial, but maybe not. Can you make an educated guess as to the diameter of the red and blue circles?

I favor the photo-letters being “IUL” with a tiny hand-written number “91” on the “I”, but maybe not.  

Tom

 

When the card is scaled to 2.125" width, the circles are 19/32 of an inch in diameter

59a70434a2c6a_DODCardpostmarkdimensions.jpg.d2d93c0b9188c9a20200dc5fafc8fe8c.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Tom Hume said:

You measured the diameter of the mysterious circles on the Oswald 1173 card at 19/21 inch, which is 14.8mm. For all practical purposes, the post 1961 Soviet 1 Kopek coin is the same size at 15mm. 1 Kopek is the smallest soviet coin and is 1/100 of a Ruble. 

I posted 19/32" which equals 15.08 mm so your theory remains intact.

4 minutes ago, Tom Hume said:

The letters inside the circles in the lower right of the Oswald 1173 photo are “IUL”, and hand-written over the “I” is the number “91”.

They are actually parts of a stamped "JUL(y)"

As you know Tom... I think there is something within the work you do, it would just be nice to corroborate/authenticate the work and results to some other case using this processes which has already been discovered.  Can you do a back test on a cipher situation which has already been solved to prove your efforts are moving in the right direction? 

Thanks Tom...

DJ

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