Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

 

Hi Paul,

Jim Garrison answers this quite well:

Yes, and in that same Garrison quote he is asked about Oswald shooting Walker, and we see his answer. 

As to your point, Garrison is explaining why the government didn't allow his case to go forward, several years after the government decided to lay the blame on a patsy and cover up the truth. What I am asking you, and have asked Trejo many times, is to explain why, if Hoover etc knew that an ex general with Nazi ties arranged the killing of JFK, they would choose to bury that and blame Oswald? 

Trejo used to say that Hoover and Dulles were American heroes who prevented Civil War by burying the truth. Now he has a new explanation - it was the Cold War, and the US couldn't afford to look divided to the Soviets. 

The truth is far more shocking, as I'm sure you suspect it is. 

[Jason Ward]

28 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

28 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Yes, and in that same Garrison quote he is asked about Oswald shooting Walker, and we see his answer. 

...., if Hoover etc knew that an ex general with Nazi ties arranged the killing of JFK, they would choose to bury that and blame Oswald? 

...

They blame Oswald because they want to keep their jobs. They protect the Right for the same reason Garrison protects Carlos Marcello. Pursuing the truth is suicide.

 

Paul,

If the Radical Right are the prime movers here, they cannot easily be brought to justice for many of the same reasons we are told "the CIA" cannot be brought to justice.

Living next door to the Radical Right is the mainstream right, and there's some crossover of course, and some in the mainstream Right only moderated their public tone so as to be more palatable.   If Hoover goes after the hard core right, Hoover sparks his own destruction.  The oilmen are quite powerful enough to challenge Hoover, reveal that he's gay, bring down LBJ, and tear up a good portion of the mainstream Right who had no violent thoughts - but who nevertheless are vulnerable because they've long been on the payroll of the hardcore Right....just as moderate Republicans take money from the Koch brothers today.

LBJ and Hoover know before AF1 takes off that there is a conspiracy - because they know from the Dallas doctors there are front and rear wounds.   They can pursue the truth and turn the US political establishment into a train wreck that kills themselves as well, or they can take the softer option and blame it on a Lone Nut -which, helpfully, the Radical Right serves up on a plate in the form of Oswald.

Hoover and LBJ protect the hard Right because this protects themselves - otherwise Hoover is an outed gay man, LBJ goes to prison, and a good portion of mildly corrupt (normal in this era) regular politicians are disgraced.

...if the Radical Right is the composer of this show.

 

 

Jason

Edited September 22, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Ron Bulman]

No.  The "Dallas Radical Right" did not Assassinate JFK.  Haroldson  Lafayette Hunt may have been the richest man in the world in 1963 by some standards but he was not the most powerful.  Murchison may have paid Hoovers summer vacation bills at the race track in California where Sirhan Sirhan later worked.  Walker was a de frocked former general whose influence was in decline at the time.  None of them or the rest had the power to cover it up.  They didn't control the Mockingbird or Military.

[Steve Thomas]

On 9/20/2017 at 4:57 PM, Paul Brancato said:

 

Theory - assassins were hired in Europe, probably not Mafia, but perhaps Corsican. The link is the still unidentified QJWIN, contacted by Harvey. The network that QJWIN taps into is probably Gladio (Lemnitzer), a CIA/Nazi/Mafia terrorist network with close ties to the international drug trade. The overheard radio traffic by - help me remember where this came from and who he was, maybe Dinkin - about the OAS ties directly into this theory. Was he Army? 

 

The conspiracy to kill JFK is all CIA and US military at the highest levels, outsourced very carefully, and covered adroitly with all manner of rabbit holes to get lost in.

oh, and one more thing - Pease says that Angleton was ex-Army Colonel. That's for Steve Thomas, if you are reading.

 

Paul,

 

You might be interested in reading this thread back in 2004  on the Education Forum:

French Connection

 

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2260-french-connection/

 

And yes, it was Dinkin you were thinking of.

 

Steve Thomas

[Paul Brancato]

10 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

They blame Oswald because they want to keep their jobs. They protect the Right for the same reason Garrison protects Carlos Marcello. Pursuing the truth is suicide.

 

Paul,

If the Radical Right are the prime movers here, they cannot easily be brought to justice for many of the same reasons we are told "the CIA" cannot be brought to justice.

Living next door to the Radical Right is the mainstream right, and there's some crossover of course, and some in the mainstream Right only moderated their public tone so as to be more palatable.   If Hoover goes after the hard core right, Hoover sparks his own destruction.  The oilmen are quite powerful enough to challenge Hoover, reveal that he's gay, bring down LBJ, and tear up a good portion of the mainstream Right who had no violent thoughts - but who nevertheless are vulnerable because they've long been on the payroll of the hardcore Right....just as moderate Republicans take money from the Koch brothers today.

LBJ and Hoover know before AF1 takes off that there is a conspiracy - because they know from the Dallas doctors there are front and rear wounds.   They can pursue the truth and turn the US political establishment into a train wreck that kills themselves as well, or they can take the softer option and blame it on a Lone Nut -which, helpfully, the Radical Right serves up on a plate in the form of Oswald.

Hoover and LBJ protect the hard Right because this protects themselves - otherwise Hoover is an outed gay man, LBJ goes to prison, and a good portion of mildly corrupt (normal in this era) regular politicians are disgraced.

...if the Radical Right is the composer of this show.

 

 

Jason

I agree with much of what you wrote. But the same logic applies to burying a conspiracy of Generals, or CIA such as Angleton, who likewise could control Hoover with blackmail. Hoover and LBJ apparently didn't fear the left. Hoover acted like the Left, the Communists particularly, were some kind of National threat, infiltrating CPUSA overmuch, while at the same time leaving the JBS alone. But I still think that if certain prominent rightists, such as Walker and Hunt, were guilty, they could have been brought to justice. 

 

[Paul Brancato]

12 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

It seems the Minutemen are at minimum a wanna-be paramilitary force.  They are ready and anxious to get rid of the Kennedys, Earl Warren, and so forth...plus avert attention from themselves onto the Communists:

{FBI memo 2/28/1964 quoting a Minutemen Newsletter}

Typical of the Right to claim persecution while it was always the Left that actually was persecuted. 

[Paul Brancato]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Paul,

 

You might be interested in reading this thread back in 2004  on the Education Forum:

French Connection

 

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2260-french-connection/

 

And yes, it was Dinkin you were thinking of.

 

Steve Thomas

Thanks Steve. Btw did you see my mention of Angleton being an Army Colonel? Anyone know if this is accurate?

[Paul Trejo]

Jason,

That Minutemen newsletter excerpt is a beautiful find.   Well done.  I will take this from you as a second possibility for the LEADERSHIP of a Radical Right CT in the JFK assassination. 

I accept the challenge.  Let us say that Walker was not the leader, but that the leaders of the Minutemen organization nationwide were the leaders.  This implies Robert DePugh.  I have researched Robert DePugh in years past, and my opinion below is based on that research.    (Harry Dean is a former member of the Minutemen, and he also gave me some insider information.)

DePugh began his organization in Missouri with a 1961 pamphlet on guerilla warfare that he basically copied from a similar pamphlet by Che Guevara.  Paranoid that the Cubans were going to invade Missouri, DePugh and a few other sportsmen started the Minutemen, which then grew so quickly that they soon lost control over it. 

Minutemen chapters sprang up all over the USA.

DePugh had only a mailing list for their "On Target" newsletter,  but they had no idea how many people were attending their local chapters nationwide.  Estimates went from a few thousand to a few hundred thousand.

Minutemen nationwide would go into the woods of their local towns, and practice war games.  Their typical leaders were former military men -- Sergeants, Corporals, Lieutenants, Colonels, and in a few rare cases, Generals. 

The loudest and most aggressive Mintueman in any local chapter was generally the leader.  They collected dues -- but sometimes, said DePugh, the leaders would not send the dues to the Missouri Headquarters, or would send only a fraction of the dues, and keep the remainder.

There were never any membership lists kept by the Headquarters.  Evidently one local chapter kept a membership list, but the FBI confiscated it as soon as possible.  It has about a hundred names -- a tip of the iceberg.

So, Robert DePugh lost control of the Minutemen.  They were so decentralized that there is no question of any Central Leaders among them, or about them taking orders from DePugh.  They took orders from their local chiefs ONLY.

So, this brings us back to Dallas and the DALLAS Minutemen specifically.  Who was the leader of the DALLAS Minutemen?  James Hosty gives us the answer in his book, Assignment Oswald (1996).  He speaks specifically in that book of "General Walker and his Minutemen."  Hosty says that his main job in the Dallas FBI was tracking this group.

By the way, I notice the rhetoric of General Walker in that memo you cited, speaking of RFK, i.e. "his brother would still be alive."

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited September 22, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Steve Thomas]

9 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

So, this brings us back to Dallas and the DALLAS Minutemen specifically.  Who was the leader of the DALLAS Minutemen?  James Hosty gives us the answer in his book, Assignment Oswald (1996). 
--Paul Trejo

Paul,

 

You might want to go through the FBI HSCA Subject files here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1479

 

There's a lot of info on the Dallas chapter..

 

Steve Thomas

[Paul Trejo]

9 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Paul,

You might want to go through the FBI HSCA Subject files here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1479

There's a lot of info on the Dallas chapter..

Steve Thomas

Steve,

The HSCA was established in 1977.   Do you suggest that they have data on the Dallas Minutemen from 1963?   Because that would be the truly relevant data when investigating the JFK assassination.

From what I gather at first glance, the earliest HSCA documents on the Minutemen are from 1965.  I think that's too late. 

In my opinion, the JFK conspirators were all in hiding starting in 1964, because their attempt at a Coup failed -- that is -- they did not get an invasion of Cuba as they had hoped.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

No.  The "Dallas Radical Right" did not Assassinate JFK.  Haroldson  Lafayette Hunt may have been the richest man in the world in 1963 by some standards but he was not the most powerful.  Murchison may have paid Hoovers summer vacation bills at the race track in California where Sirhan Sirhan later worked.  Walker was a de frocked former general whose influence was in decline at the time.  None of them or the rest had the power to cover it up.  They didn't control the Mockingbird or Military.

Ron,

In my opinion, the JFK Kill Team was not the same as the JFK Cover-up Team.  Two different Teams at cross-purposes.   The JFK Kill Team wanted to blame the Communists as a group -- and they wanted to promote the perception of Multiple Shooters.  This was supposed to be a Communist Plot.  That's why Oswald was framed the way he was.

The JFK Cover-up Team wanted to blame Lee Harvey Oswald, and him ALONE for the JFK murder, in order to prevent public hysteria.   They won.  The JFK Kill Team lost in their ultimate goals.  JFK was dead, but the result was disappointing to them -- the US Constitution kept on humming along on schedule.

I will open the door this little crack -- it is possible that J. Edgar Hoover supported the Radical Right all the way through the JFK assassination, and then betrayed them at the last minute, promoting his original Lone Nut CT which undercut the main goals of the Radical Right.  That's not impossible.  Until and unless that's proved however, it seems to me that J. Edgar Hoover possibly saved the USA from WW3 by means of his Lone Nut CT.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited September 22, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Roger DeLaria]

One of the many things I found interesting so far in reading Dallas 1963 was when Mayor Earle Cabell personally greeted Edwin Walker back to Dallas after Walker had been relieved of his duty. Like minds? Kindred souls?

A couple of images from this article:

https://extranewsfeed.com/back-and-to-the-left-c935c75205a

 

[Steve Thomas]

3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Steve,

The HSCA was established in 1977.   Do you suggest that they have data on the Dallas Minutemen from 1963?   Because that would be the truly relevant data when investigating the JFK assassination.

From what I gather at first glance, the earliest HSCA documents on the Minutemen are from 1965.  I think that's too late. 

In my opinion, the JFK conspirators were all in hiding starting in 1964, because their attempt at a Coup failed -- that is -- they did not get an invasion of Cuba as they had hoped.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo 

Paul,

 

I went through those files a while back, and from what I could gather, there was a real flurry of FBI activity against the Minutemen in January of 1964. The number of memos back and forth  really picked up. It seemed like there was a real (or imagined) fear of a Minuteman uprising at that time; or at least that's the line Hoover was pushing.

The HSCA didn't instigate those FBI files in 1977, that's just when they requested the FBI to hand them over.

 

Steve Thomas

[Paul Brancato]

4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Steve,

The HSCA was established in 1977.   Do you suggest that they have data on the Dallas Minutemen from 1963?   Because that would be the truly relevant data when investigating the JFK assassination.

From what I gather at first glance, the earliest HSCA documents on the Minutemen are from 1965.  I think that's too late. 

In my opinion, the JFK conspirators were all in hiding starting in 1964, because their attempt at a Coup failed -- that is -- they did not get an invasion of Cuba as they had hoped.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo 

You think the coup failed because Cuba survived? I think the coup was very successful because the 'traitor' in the White House was murdered. I have no doubts it was the Radical Right - I never did. Just not General Walker at the top of the pyramid. Involved in logistical support on the ground in Dallas? Perhaps. Providing assassins from the Minutemen? Very unlikely the assassins themselves were Americans. The clues that JFK was killed by the Right have always been right there in front of us. 

[Paul Trejo]

11 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

You think the coup failed because Cuba survived? I think the coup was very successful because the 'traitor' in the White House was murdered. I have no doubts it was the Radical Right - I never did. Just not General Walker at the top of the pyramid. Involved in logistical support on the ground in Dallas? Perhaps. Providing assassins from the Minutemen? Very unlikely the assassins themselves were Americans. The clues that JFK was killed by the Right have always been right there in front of us. 

Paul B.,

I'm glad that we appear to be coming closer in our CT's of the JFK assassination -- yet I still believe that we define "Radical Right" differently. 

For me, "Radical Right" sharply excludes high-level posts in the US Government.  That's a pretty firm rule with me.  Unless and until somebody shows me a smoking gun -- I'm going to stick to my CT.  The "Radical Right" remains an UNDERGROUND movement, and the UNDERGROUND RIGHT is the US movement that killed JFK.

Then -- sticking with the personnel in 1963 exclusively -- who was a more likely leader of the Underground Radical Right in the South than General Walker?   Show me evidence.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited September 22, 2017 by Paul Trejo