Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?

[Michael Clark]

The Radical Right includes the YAF, IMO. The conspiracy had several legs. Near the head of one of those legs was William Buckley Jr. That would be the Northeast Establishment leg, with shipbuilding interests, Raytheon, and big money. William Buckley Jr. was the Queen or Bishop in that stovepiped line of command which bypassed and confused guys like Angleton. 

Raytheon was co-founded by one Vannevar Bush. 

[Roger DeLaria]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

You think the coup failed because Cuba survived? I think the coup was very successful because the 'traitor' in the White House was murdered. I have no doubts it was the Radical Right - I never did. Just not General Walker at the top of the pyramid. Involved in logistical support on the ground in Dallas? Perhaps. Providing assassins from the Minutemen? Very unlikely the assassins themselves were Americans. The clues that JFK was killed by the Right have always been right there in front of us. 

This is pretty close to how I feel. I think the conspirators' table has more than a few sides, maybe like an octagon.

I've started looking at the Radical Right more closely. I have no problem with General Walker and the Radical Right having a place at the table. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Jason Ward]

6 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

...

I will open the door this little crack -- it is possible that J. Edgar Hoover supported the Radical Right all the way through the JFK assassination, and then betrayed them at the last minute, promoting his original Lone Nut CT which undercut the main goals of the Radical Right.  

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul,

As you know, I'm in an ambitious program to work through the MFF documents newly released and related to the Radical Right.   My read of the overall communications traffic is that if there's anyone in the constellation of the Washington Power Elite who knows a move against JFK is in the works, it's Hoover.  He's got CIA guys reporting to his FBI agents, he's got the Cubans all sewn up, he's reading the mail and listening to the phone calls of everyone domestically connected to organized crime, communism, and corrupted private industry.  

Most of all, Hoover's probably more aware and more worried about the Radical Right than anyone else.   From Little Rock High School onwards, the Right is on his radar.  From Ole Miss onwards, Walker is front and center and mentioned at least weekly in FBI traffic.  There are reports from the field that the worst of the Right are weaponizing and talking about destroying the government, with all that such words imply.

Hoover had guys penetrating the KKK, he had informants in southern police forces, he had more than one guy like Willie Somersett recording Milteer and other violent reactionaries.   It's a very bad misunderstanding to think The Right wasn't looked at by Hoover very strongly.  He was all over them.   I find it reasonable to assume Hoover at least heard rumors of an attack in Texas.  See documents below; all very typical and very numerous.

Jason

From 1962 FBI memo, Dallas to Hoover

 

Many FBI offices on their own initiative pursued the hard right members in their local areas.   At some point, a FBI-wide directive came out to catalog the extreme Right wingers, OR, the extreme Right wingers heard a rumor that the FBI was in hot pursuit.

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

10 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

... 

while at the same time leaving the JBS alone.

...

 

Paul, thanks for the civil conversation but on this point I have to severely disagree.

Hoover was not "leaving the JBS  alone," he was infiltrating them and hiring informants towards them with a passion only exceeded by his obsession with the CPUSA.    

There are tons of documents like the one below starting in the late 50s into the mid 60s.   However, only the ones officially related to JFK have been released.  I can see internal file references indicating there's a lot more there no one has bothered to ask for yet with a FOIA request.   I think it's a fair argument to make that after the commies, Hoover feared and allocated resources to the reactionaries, i.e., JBS, Minutemen, all the various "states rights" parties related to George Wallace and the merry circus of violent southern racists.

regards

Jason

 

[Jason Ward]

3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Paul,

 

I went through those files a while back, and from what I could gather, there was a real flurry of FBI activity against the Minutemen in January of 1964. The number of memos back and forth  really picked up. It seemed like there was a real (or imagined) fear of a Minuteman uprising at that time; or at least that's the line Hoover was pushing.

The HSCA didn't instigate those FBI files in 1977, that's just when they requested the FBI to hand them over.

 

Steve Thomas

Hi Steve,

I'm working through the MFF files right now and you are of course correct.  However, I'm making a spreadsheet cross referencing file numbers and it suggests that there is lots more in FBI archives focusing on the hardcore right wing from the 50s and 60s.  Since much of it does not directly state "JFK" or mention any JFK-releated figure, the files remain undiscovered.  I'm hoping to get Rex Bradford with the MFF to work with me on organizing a new FOIA request specifically targeting only the radical right, which heretofore has not seen the light of day.

Nice talking with you,

Jason

[Jason Ward]

54 minutes ago, Roger DeLaria said:

This is pretty close to how I feel. I think the conspirators' table has more than a few sides, maybe like an octagon.

I've started looking at the Radical Right more closely. I have no problem with General Walker and the Radical Right having a place at the table. 

You may be right, Roger.

However, just to elucidate discussion, I have to say from my readings there is a conflict so severe between [who I presume are] the members of your octagonal table that the idea of them working together is far-fetched, IMO.   Basically, Walker thinks guys like the Bushes, the East Coast Establishment, and the whole preppy club of CIA - William F. Buckely - Rockefeller Foundation types are equivalent to Kennedy.   Walker wouldn't have a seat at the table with the CIA because Walker sees the CIA as part of the problem - Walker would be totally fine with offing the head of the CIA or any other federal agency, in my view.   

Walker can't stand the CIA-Bush types for all the same reasons Trump can't stand the CIA-Bush types.   Trump supporters are the ideological grandchildren of Walker's movement, and as Charlottesville indicates, the worst of them aren't descendants of Walker's ideas, they are still practicing Walker's ideas.

I agree it's plausible Walker is exercising his military contacts in some way.   Much like my objection to the CIA-did-it ideas, I sense that any serving member of the US military is unlikely to get involved in the assassination for fear of prison and capital punishment.   With that opinion in mind, I admit that some high ranking Pentagon types passing information and discreet moral support to the murderers is a defensible belief, although for the moment I am indifferent on this question.

 

regards

 

Jason

[Roger DeLaria]

1 hour ago, Jason Ward said:

You may be right, Roger.

However, just to elucidate discussion, I have to say from my readings there is a conflict so severe between [who I presume are] the members of your octagonal table that the idea of them working together is far-fetched, IMO.   Basically, Walker thinks guys like the Bushes, the East Coast Establishment, and the whole preppy club of CIA - William F. Buckely - Rockefeller Foundation types are equivalent to Kennedy.   Walker wouldn't have a seat at the table with the CIA because Walker sees the CIA as part of the problem - Walker would be totally fine with offing the head of the CIA or any other federal agency, in my view.   

Walker can't stand the CIA-Bush types for all the same reasons Trump can't stand the CIA-Bush types.   Trump supporters are the ideological grandchildren of Walker's movement, and as Charlottesville indicates, the worst of them aren't descendants of Walker's ideas, they are still practicing Walker's ideas.

I agree it's plausible Walker is exercising his military contacts in some way.   Much like my objection to the CIA-did-it ideas, I sense that any serving member of the US military is unlikely to get involved in the assassination for fear of prison and capital punishment.   With that opinion in mind, I admit that some high ranking Pentagon types passing information and discreet moral support to the murderers is a defensible belief, although for the moment I am indifferent on this question.

 

regards

 

Jason

Good discussion, Jason.

I can certainly see the conflict that you're talking about. Would a shared, common goal with the desired result be enough to overcome that conflict? 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Jason Ward]

14 hours ago, Roger DeLaria said:

Good discussion, Jason.

I can certainly see the conflict that you're talking about. Would a shared, common goal with the desired result be enough to overcome that conflict? 

Hi Roger,

I suppose anything is possible: I personally do not see it as plausible that the hard right like Hunt and Walker can work with the right coast intelligentsia they despise - the families Rockefeller, Dulles & Bush, Ivy League cliques, high powered lawyers, nor the remnants of Bill Donovan's recruits from Wall Street and Harvard.

This is asking Trump Nation to work with George Bush.  It's asking the redneck Alabama KKK to work with a bunch of pansy pretty boys from Yale in argyle sweaters.

Walker and Hunt want to off these guys who love the UN and globalism - not work with them.  IMO.

 

regards

 

Jason

Edited September 23, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Paul Trejo]

Jason and Roger,

Just to add to this -- the WC testimony of Professor Revilo P. Oliver, a staff writer for the JBS, claims that the CIA was Communist controlled.   

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited September 23, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Jason Ward]

On 9/22/2017 at 10:29 AM, Paul Trejo said:

Jason,

That Minutemen newsletter excerpt is a beautiful find.   Well done.  I will take this from you as a second possibility for the LEADERSHIP of a Radical Right CT in the JFK assassination. 

...

I accept the challenge. 

...

So, Robert DePugh lost control of the Minutemen.  They were so decentralized that there is no question of any Central Leaders among them, or about them taking orders from DePugh.  They took orders from their local chiefs ONLY.

...

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul,

1> I see the Minutemen as the weaponized faction of the John Birch Society.   Don't you agree the JBS has a more coherent leadership structure, and even a marginally more mainstream intellectual appeal?  I mean even today the JBS has a website and some name value.  All the FBI field reports I read always say that 90% of Minutemen are also JBS, but fewer JBS are Minutemen.   In the states where the KKK is strong, there is a further cross-pollination between these three groups according to FBI teletype traffic.  On November 22, 1963, numerous FBI agents started tracking down their known local Minutemen/JBS/KKK aggressors and bombing suspects to report whether or not they were in Dallas that day; they were the assumed conspirators at hour 1.

2> So, I kind of see the Minutemen as what the gun nuts in rural Missouri and South Carolina do after the slightly more dignified JBS meeting.  As you say, my read is that they are largely cellular in leadership approach and activities.   I see that some chapters have regular shoot outs and weapons purchases, while other chapters only have meetings.   

3> I have no evidence to support any kind of CT and that isn't my goal as I'm in data processing mode.  However, at this point I would say it's more likely that the Radical Right killed JFK (even with a small group of violent Minutemen) than it is the CIA killed JFK.   I studied the 9-11 crime when I worked for a major defense contractor and here's the tough truth - this was no globally sophisticated and wealthy effort of conspiratorial masterminds.   It was modestly funded (high 6 to low 7 figures), using minimally trained operators, and a very risky and half-baked plan - that happened to work in large part because of incompetent government bureaucracy at multiple levels. So, while I agree Walker is perhaps the leading maximum leader of any reactionary conspiracy, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that a small band of modestly funded Minutemen no-names executed the crime ... counting on Walker-Hunt to cover them up in Dallas as promised.

I believe guys like Byron de la Beckwith, Joseph Milteer, and Sam Bowers are violent and lawless to a frenzied degree because they believe their world is coming to an end.  The CIA, by contrast, knows their budget and their world lives forever.   Killing JFK is a desperate deed from desperate minds.

regards

 

Jason

 

The denial of the Dallas office (Hosty?) that the Minutemen exist is of course suspicious and perhaps even fraudulent:

 

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Roger DeLaria]

3 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Roger,

I suppose anything is possible: I personally do not see it as plausible that the hard right like Hunt and Walker can work with the right coast intelligentsia they despise - the families Rockefeller, Dulles & Bush, Ivy League cliques, high powered lawyers, nor the remnants of Bill Donovan's recruits from Wall Street and Harvard.

This is asking Trump Nation to work with George Bush.  It's asking the redneck Alabama KKK to work with a bunch of pansy pretty boys from Yale in argyle sweaters.

Walker and Hunt want to off these guys who love the UN and globalism - not work with them.  IMO.

 

regards

 

Jason

Jason,

I can certainly see your points, they may be true. I think it's also possible that one poker player doesn't know the identity of the other players, and doesn't want or need to know. Especially if representatives and layers are used. Self preservation and plausible deniability. No connecting points. But ultimately, I suppose anything is possible.

Cheers,

Roger

Edited September 23, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Paul Trejo]

9 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul,

1> I see the Minutemen as the weaponized faction of the John Birch Society.   Don't you agree the JBS has a more coherent leadership structure, and even a marginally more mainstream intellectual appeal?  I mean even today the JBS has a website and some name value.  All the FBI field reports I read always say that 90% of Minutemen are also JBS, but fewer JBS are Minutemen.   In the states where the KKK is strong, there is a further cross-pollination between these three groups according to FBI teletype traffic.  On November 22, 1963, numerous FBI agents started tracking down their known local Minutemen/JBS/KKK aggressors and bombing suspects to report whether or not they were in Dallas that day; they were the assumed conspirators at hour 1.

2> So, I kind of see the Minutemen as what the gun nuts in rural Missouri and South Carolina do after the slightly more dignified JBS meeting.  As you say, my read is that they are largely cellular in leadership approach and activities.   I see that some chapters have regular shoot outs and weapons purchases, while other chapters only have meetings.   

3> I have no evidence to support any kind of CT and that isn't my goal as I'm in data processing mode.  However, at this point I would say it's more likely that the Radical Right killed JFK (even with a small group of violent Minutemen) than it is the CIA killed JFK.   I studied the 9-11 crime when I worked for a major defense contractor and here's the tough truth - this was no globally sophisticated and wealthy effort of conspiratorial masterminds.   It was modestly funded (high 6 to low 7 figures), using minimally trained operators, and a very risky and half-baked plan - that happened to work in large part because of incompetent government bureaucracy at multiple levels. So, while I agree Walker is perhaps the leading maximum leader of any reactionary conspiracy, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that a small band of modestly funded Minutemen no-names executed the crime ... counting on Walker-Hunt to cover them up in Dallas as promised.

I believe guys like Byron de la Beckwith, Joseph Milteer, and Sam Bowers are violent and lawless to a frenzied degree because they believe their world is coming to an end.  The CIA, by contrast, knows their budget and their world lives forever.   Killing JFK is a desperate deed from desperate minds.

regards

Jason

The denial of the Dallas office (Hosty?) that the Minutemen exist is of course suspicious and perhaps even fraudulent:

Jason,

Here is my opinion, by the numbers:

(1)  It may be an exaggeration to say that the Minutemen were the "weaponized faction" of the John Birch Society, if by that we mean some official faction.

1.1. Certainly it appears true in the abstract, that is, the dogma of the JBS, that Washington DC was basically Communist-controlled, was identical with the dogma of the Minutemen.    

1.2. Yet I find nothing in the leadership structure of the JBS that controlled the Minutemen.  Just as Robert DePugh failed to control the Minutemen from his headquarters in Missouri, so also Robert Welch could have no direct command and control over the Minutemen local chiefs.

1.3.  True, the JBS was the intellectual beacon of the Minutemen.  They were the brains, in that sense.  But they gave no ORDERS.  That's a crucial difference.  

1.4.  So, I say that ROGUES in the JBS were involved with ROGUES in the Minutemen (and in the Dallas DPD, Sheriff's office, Postmasters office, Dallas FBI and Dallas SS) to kill JFK.

1.5.  It is a mistake, I think, to paint with too broad a brush.   Let us stick with the empirical data -- we have DALLAS MINUTEMEN, led by General Walker (according to James Hosty), and they are the most likely suspects in the DALLAS assassination of JFK (according to ATF agent Frank Ellsworth, Harry Dean, Jack Ruby and others).  

(2)  Many Minutemen were also members of the John Birch Society -- because that Dogma fed their obsession with weapons.  But the organizations were sharply distinct.  The BIrchers that I knew as a kid in Southern California in the late 1960's and early 1970's were always professional men, homeowners, family men, dentists, lawyers, small businessmen and their wives.  I doubt if many had weapons.   It's a different breed.

(3) I realize you have no CT today.   I was speaking allegorically.  I am encouraged, however, that your data processing of current FOIA releases of FBI data has so far suggested (however prematurely) a Radical Right CT.

3.1.  I strongly suspect that no Minutemen in Dallas would have lifted a finger without telling their leader, General Walker.   One must recognize how far UNDERGROUND General Walker had fallen after he was released from the Insane Asylum to which JFK and RFK had sent him following the Ole Miss riots of September 1962.

3.2.  The Minutemen were largely composed (as many Radical Right groups are composed) of former Military personnel.  This means that they were accustomed to following ORDERS and respecting their local LEADERS.   Walker was the most Radical AND EXPERIENCED leader that they knew.  He was a hero of World War Two and the Korean War.  He had seen one heck of a lot of battles and fallen soldiers.   He had studied war since childhood Military School before West Point and then 30 years in the US Army, most of those years in WAR ZONES.

3.3.  I agree heartily that the CIA is obsessed with USSR-Cuba during the JFK administration, and that to know who killed JFK we must look at the domestic arena -- which was the duty of the FBI.  It is in FBI records (which you are now processing) that we will finally learn who killed JFK.

Please carry on and keep us apprised. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited September 24, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Walton]

I'm finding it more and more hard to believe about the radical right being involved for one reason. And it goes back to the so-called Oswald visit to MC.  As was written by others, I don't believe that Oswald was ever down there in the first place.  Instead, he was impersonated during the fake calls to the embassy there. Someone made fake calls there claimning to be LHO and the woman named Duran.

This had to have taken place by someone who was working in the intelligence business. As we know, the voice and photos proved that it was not LHO. Hoover said as much to Johnson. But for someone to have been able to go into the intelligence network to do this, I just cannot see a radical right person being able to do this. 

 

[Roger DeLaria]

Leander Perez is another radical figure I'm starting to read about a bit. I recently acquired The book Leander Perez: Boss of the Delta, but haven't read it yet. He clearly had no love lost for Kennedy:

On the presidential level, Perez, as chair of the Democratic State Central Committee, attempted to deny Louisiana’s electoral votes to liberal candidates. In 1960 he created a slate of unpledged electors in defiance of Louisiana’s vote for John F. Kennedy. In 1964 he backed George Wallace, until the Alabama governor withdrew in favor of Republican Barry Goldwater, who carried Louisiana. In 1968 Perez backed Wallace, who won Louisiana. He donated large sums to conservative candidates, campaigning chiefly in Louisiana. In state and national elections, Plaquemines cast few votes, but Perez could deliver them in a bloc. There was virtual unanimity in the parishwide vote—a combination of respect for Perez and voter fraud.

http://www.knowlouisiana.org/entry/leander-perez

This is another interesting tidbit from HSCA Deposition of Hemming I came across.

The Operation 40 group was the intended new government for Cuba -- 
they were sponsored by Carlos Marcello and Leander Perez (pp 130-131).

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/unpub_testimony/pdf/Hemming_3-21-78.pdf

Guy Banister, Leander Perez, and Jim Garrison

http://www.jfk-online.com/jpsgblpjg.html

William F. Buckley Jr. interview with Leander Perez

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Jason Ward]

4 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

I'm finding it more and more hard to believe about the radical right being involved for one reason. And it goes back to the so-called Oswald visit to MC.  As was written by others, I don't believe that Oswald was ever down there in the first place.  Instead, he was impersonated during the fake calls to the embassy there. Someone made fake calls there claimning to be LHO and the woman named Duran.

This had to have taken place by someone who was working in the intelligence business. As we know, the voice and photos proved that it was not LHO. Hoover said as much to Johnson. But for someone to have been able to go into the intelligence network to do this, I just cannot see a radical right person being able to do this. 

 

Hi Michael,

What do you see as the reason for the mistaken photo?  Why not just send a picture of LHO, taken anywhere on the planet, and offer it as proof of contact with the Soviets and their KGB hitman Kostikov?   Doesn't this mean that at least the CIA in MC isn't involved in the conspiracy - since they have no idea what LHO looks or sounds like and send a photo of someone else?

Mary Ferrell put together what I consider an essential reference work for the assassination - a detailed Oswald chronology.   When you add the evidence she cites to the Lopez report, I' suggest the balance of our information indicates Oswald crossed the border and checked into a hotel in Mexico City.  A few key details are that a Mexican photographer takes Oswald's visa-appication photo, his signature is on the Cuban visa application, and his signature is on the MC hotel registration. Here's a link to the chronology report of Mexico City evidence and a couple screenshots below my name:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40391#relPageId=123&tab=page

Jason 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Jason Ward