Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?

[Michael Clark]

Just now, Ernie Lazar said:

Again -- nothing new here.  All these files have been released before -- many years ago.  I received the FBI HQ and Dallas files on National Indignation Convention 13 years ago as paper docs and then I received them again 4 years ago as pdf files which are in my Internet Archive collection.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=FOIA%3A National Indignation

Yup, I am scanning the things Jason Ward is posting. It is all exactly as you said it would be, concerned citizens, unsolicited reports, investigations into general racist disturbances.

[Michael Clark]

3 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Here's bone #3 tossed to the global-conspiracy-cast-of-1000s-theoriests = Dinkin.

Not that I expect any but one or two to get off their butt and do some actual research (when posting evidence-free opinions is so fun and worthless to the rest of us,) but 'inanition' and other CIA reveals relevant to this Dinkin sideshow are available at the Mary Ferrell site. 

 

 

 

[Jason Ward]

Dinkin part 2 for those distracted by such matters.

Hint: evidence is easy to find and read from the National Archives, the FBI, the CIA, the Mary Ferrell site, et al.  

There is not one shred of evidence ANYWHERE that Dinkin ever made any assassination predictions BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION actually TOOK PLACE:

 

[Michael Clark]

1 minute ago, Michael Clark said:

Yup, I am scanning the things Jason Ward is posting. It is all exactly as you said it would be, concerned citizens, unsolicited reports, investigations into general racist disturbances.

And confidential informants doing what they do, earn their pay by providing reports. 

[Michael Clark]

Just now, Jason Ward said:

Dinkin part 2 for those distracted by such matters.

Hint: evidence is easy to find and read from the National Archives, the FBI, the CIA, the Mary Ferrell site, et al.  

There is not one shred of evidence ANYWHERE that Dinkin ever made any assassination predictions BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION actually TOOK PLACE:

 

 

[Jason Ward]

Dinkin Part 3: The End.

The first time there is any mention whatsoever that Dinkin "had advanced knowledge" of the assassination, was, wait for it:

AFTER the assassination took place.

...and it's not from Dinkin himself, it's from  shyster journalist Alex des Fonatine trying to sell a story he created in hopes of making big bucks after the murder..

Dinkin never predicted anything.  There is no evidence.  NONE

 

 

[Ernie Lazar]

1 hour ago, Jason Ward said:

I believe somewhere above this post someone attempts to tell us that the FBI was in no way watching or concerned with Walker, in reality they were only defending their ego and not the facts of the case:

 

 

Jason -- I know you think you have found something compelling but all of this information has been public knowledge for decades.

Briefly -- here is what happened.

The FBI was contacted by one of its Klan informants.  He is identified above as Jackson-59-R (which refers to a racial informant used by the Jackson MS office).  This Klan informant had previously provided reliable information to the FBI about other Klan-related matters.  [A second Klan informant from Birmingham AL also initially reported similar information in September 1964.]

However, when the FBI checked further (including a follow-up contact with Jackson 59-R) it was determined that the "Klan insurrection" was just a rumor.

You can see more details here on Mary Ferrell's website:  Scroll through the pages to see all the details.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145523#relPageId=98&tab=page

You can also see the same information in the Dallas FBI field file on Walker here:

https://archive.org/stream/WalkerEdwinA.Dallas2/Walker%2C Edwin A.-Dallas-2#page/n61/mode/2up

I think the problem you and I are having is because you make no distinction between unsolicited raw information which comes into the Bureau from hundreds or even thousands of outside sources----versus----specific instructions given to FBI employees to "watch" or "track" a person or organization -- and the resulting regular reports which are produced as a consequence of those instructions (not to mention the authorizations requested up the chain of command when a field office wanted to perform actual surveillance).

In other words -- in the Jason Ward scheme of things, EVERY SINGLE FILE ever created by the FBI on ANY person, organization, or event is evidence that the FBI was "watching", "tracking" and "monitoring" ALL those MILLIONS of people.  In 1981, when the National Archivist completed a court-ordered Records Appraisal project on the FBI -- they declared that the FBI had opened 25 MILLION case files.

So, Jason Ward thinks that FBI Agents "tracked" and "watched" MILLIONS of people up through 1980 --- which explains (in Jason's scheme of things) how the FBI obtained all of the information appearing in its files. 

Of course, it makes no difference to Jason that up until World War II, the FBI never had more than 1600 Agents.  Jason actually believes that the information in MILLIONS of files created by the FBI could only be the result of all 1600 Agents (HQ and field) being out in the field "watching" and "tracking" those MILLIONS of people.

Let's assume that a typical Agent could "watch" or "track" 8 people in the course of an 8-hour day (i.e. spend one hour per day per person). 

Since a typical employee works 2000 hours a year, that means each Agent could "watch" or "track" 16,000 people a year (but only spend one hour on each person per year). 

So---let's say that 15 million of those 25 million case files were created on people and the rest of the FBI files are on organizations, publications, events, and other matters.

How many FBI Agents would it take to produce reports on 15 million people?  YOU do the math and then report back to us.

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by Ernie Lazar

[Michael Clark]

7 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Dinkin Part 3: The End.

The first time there is any mention whatsoever that Dinkin "had advanced knowledge" of the assassination, was, wait for it:

AFTER the assassination took place.

...and it's not from Dinkin himself, it's from  shyster journalist Alex des Fonatine trying to sell a story he created in hopes of making big bucks after the murder..

Dinkin never predicted anything.  There is no evidence.  NONE

 

 

 

[Jason Ward]

1 hour ago, Roger DeLaria said:

About as relevant as umpteen questions regarding Jack Ruby's mother's dental records. Bloat the files. Wheat vs. chaff.

Lots and lots of chaff.

Because of a few honest souls such as yourself who study and read before they speak - I've posted what seems interesting at first glance from the day's document release.   Most of it is simply expanded versions of what we already have, but there are a few kernels of totally new information.

I'd ask you to look at the Masen references above and in the book I cite below.  Thoughts?

 

goodnight

 

Jason

 

PS - I'll try to order that item you mentioned to me from the inter-library loan system tomorrow.

""""""""""""""""""'

""""""""""""""""""

""""""""""""""""""

For Paul Trejo,

 maybe we need to be talking a bit more about what Harrison Livingstone has to say?

Livingstone, Harrison E.  The Radical Right and the Murder of JFK.  Trafford Publishing; Victoria: 2004.   p. 117

snippet available free to the public here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=LD8TUAGSuMoC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=minutemen+jfk+masen&source=bl&ots=35_mwCcwWp&sig=OBhjbN-lP3-fw9i9i-ygX-Q0mEo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig95Hu9Y_XAhXE5IMKHSTpCLEQ6AEIQjAH#v=onepage&q=minutemen jfk masen&f=false

Edited October 27, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Lots and lots of chaff.

Because of a few honest souls such as yourself who study and read before they speak - I've posted what seems interesting at first glance from the day's document release.   Most of it is simply expanded versions of what we already have, but there are a few kernels of totally new information.

I'd ask you to look at the Masen references above and in the book I cite below.  Thoughts?

I'

goodnight

 

Jason

 

PS - I'll try to order that item you mentioned to me from the inter-library loan system tomorrow.

""""""""""""""""""'

""""""""""""""""""

""""""""""""""""""

For Paul Trejo, maybe we need to be talking a bit more about what Harrison Livingstone has to say?

Livingstone, Harrison E.  The Radical Right and the Murder of JFK.  Trafford Publishing; Victoria: 2004.   p. 117

snippet available free to the public here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=LD8TUAGSuMoC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=minutemen+jfk+masen&source=bl&ots=35_mwCcwWp&sig=OBhjbN-lP3-fw9i9i-ygX-Q0mEo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig95Hu9Y_XAhXE5IMKHSTpCLEQ6AEIQjAH#v=onepage&q=minutemen jfk masen&f=false

 

[Jason Ward]

8 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

the JFK assassination can only be resolved by reading all of J. Edgar Hoover's 11/1963 files in order.   I agree 100%

Paul,

On the one hand, any of us today has many millions of pages more evidence available than previous generations of researchers.  Lane and Garrison would be in awe of what we now have at our fingertips.

On the other hand, almost no one bothers to do the research.  It's a shame.   Yes indeed you have to start with a fixed point of time and read everything Hoover says IN ORDER, otherwise you're just cherry picking.  I really don't think you can Google your way to mastering the available evidence, you just have to dive in the weeds and start going page after page, consecutively.  The one compensation for this tedious approach is that reading FBI files is like acquiring a new language; it's slow and sloppy at first, but after practice you can quickly scan documents and know instantly the pertinent details; almost like the milions of FBI files were written by the same person, with one very limited vocabulary, and with one peculiar style of both candid revelation and deceptive manipulations.  I'm sure Hoover knew within a second whether his agent memo writers were forthright or trying to keep something form him, because you can see it in the memos even decades later.   

I don't see anything in today's release (granted I've only covered a fraction), the earlier 2017 release, nor in the entirety of primary source material acceptable to professional historians which in even the slightest way hints of a government conspiracy previous to 22 November 1963.

Obviously there was a conspiracy later - very well documented, in hundreds of materials.  Yet nothing whatsoever in evidence shows a pre 22 November appetite, plan, or anticipation of Kennedy's murder from anyone in the government or Cuban circus.  Only Milteer, Walker, etc., are backed with evidence showing their wish for Kennedy's death and their links to the major assn players BEFORE the murder.

Of course, while I agree 99% with you that the Radical Right and RR alone has the intense irrational fear of Progressive politics enough to drive them on a risky gamble of the Dallas circus stunt shooting; nevertheless you do admit there is no clear evidence of interlocking connections between the likes of Walker and the gunmen in Dealey Plaza, right?

 

Jason

Edited October 27, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Ernie Lazar]

I think one of the problems with conspiracy theories re JFK (or probably any other political conspiracy theory) is that all sorts of names come up.  At one time, I attempted to keep a chart of all the persons who had predicted that JFK would not finish his first term.  There were DOZENS.  Many of the FBI memos discussing all those folks are on Mary Ferrell's website -- and, of course, their names and predictions appear in the FBI HQ main file on the assassination (62-109060).

The 413-page Secret Secret document which I mentioned in a previous message contains hundreds of people who either threatened JFK OR they claimed to have some knowledge about such threats.

So what makes any one report any more compelling than another? 

In other words, what is the criteria for separating out the mentally unbalanced people (the Secret Service document often contains "paranoid schizo" or "mental case" descriptive comments) versus the people who might actually have had some actual foreknowledge OR serious intent?

A while back I posted a message about Maynard Nelsen of Chicago IL.  Nelsen was a self-described Hitler admirer.  For a time, he was the Illinois leader of the National States Rights Party.  He also was a member of the American Nazi Party.  During his college years in Minnesota -- he posted "Kill Jews" signs around his campus.  He made death threats against the Mayor of Minneapolis at that time (Hubert Humphrey).

Nelsen also praised the bombing of synagogues around the country BUT he stated that it would be better to bomb them when Jews were inside -- instead of when they were vacant.  He wrote all sorts of vile and disgusting messages.

So----by any normal standards of evidence, it is entirely understandable why the FBI put him on their list of Illinois possible bombing suspects.

In January 1964, Nelsen wrote a letter to Robert Kennedy about JFK's murder:
“Dear Bobby-O: Well, now that the shooting is over I want to convey my very personal condolences to you and your entire anti-White, Jew-worshipping, n-loving family…I enjoyed the death of Rockefeller’s son in New Guinea…and I also enjoyed the Dallas shooting. It is good to see the rich suffer and die just as the poor…I look forward to reading the front pages of the local newspapers re: that Jimmy Hoffa has personally beaten you to within an inch of your life.  Happy Hate, Max Nelsen.”
[HQ 100-351528, #31, 1/6/64 Max Nelsen to “Attorney General Commissar, Bobby Kennedy”]

Despite his virulent hatred, Nelsen never acted upon his viciousness.  He never was arrested for any violent crime or incident.  He never attempted to bomb a building or maim anybody.

Some psychologists believe that people who publicly express their hatred and venom are often the least dangerous -- because their verbal or written expressions of hate and bigotry are in lieu of taking actions commensurate with their inner demons.

I think the same principle applies to most JFK haters.   YES---there are DOZENS of examples of radical right extremists making vicious declarations of their contempt and revulsion toward JFK and some even threaten bodily harm or death (see Secret Service document and FBI 89-series files) -- but none of them actually did anything.  

So -- it is important to not jump to conclusions about every hate-filled letter or communication -- as predictive of actual behavior.
 

Edited October 27, 2017 by Ernie Lazar

[Paul Trejo]

12 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

 

Hi Paul,

This is kind of abrupt, but you've seen me bring up evidence without much introduction or analysis before; so....

I think Hemming, Hall, etc., are merely profiteering adventurers who hope to cash in on the CIA's tsunami windfall of dollars spent in Miami to topple Castro.    I doubt they have much insight into JFK, and I know for a fact the CIA would never in a million years hire these guys directly to do anything because they were reputably incompetent wanna-be soldiers of fortune.  They were routinely treated as leachers, posers, scum, by both the FBI and CIA.  They did, however, almost certainly manage to capture some second- and third- hand CIA cash in the way Ferrie and 100s of Cuban exiles did during the early 60s.

Apart from my own cynicism towards the relevance of these characters, I've seen you write that you think Hall and Hemming may have at been involved in the assassination in at least a minor way.  So I attach these documents below, only because I know this topic is of some interest.  These were released today and may serve as a hint of what's in the .zip files in terms of newly revealed info.   I admit I've always been suspicious of Loran Hall's odyssey across the southern US in 63, complete with a pit stop in Dallas calling on all the usual Right-Wingers.  I admit these guys may have at least heard something, they were certainly in some interesting circles...

Lester Logue, the John Birch Society, the DPD...if you're Radical Right theory is correct, these guys are right on the cusp of it all, at the right time...

Jason

 

 

Jason,

Many thanks for this.  I agree with you entirely that Loran Hall and Gerry Patrick Hemming were low-class individuals who would never be entrusted by the FBI or CIA with anything important.  They were mercenaries, pure and simple.

Yet that is no reason to exclude them from a Walker-did-it plot, and every reason to include them.   Blackmail was a favorite tool of Guy Banister, according to Ron Lewis (Flashback, 1993).

I thank you very much for this FBI record on Loran Hall and Larry Howard -- because it matches 100% what Harry Dean told me personally, namely, that he and Guy Gabaldon would collect paramilitary and medical supplies from upper-middle class members of the John Birch Society in Southern California, and store them in their garages.   Then, Loran Hall and Larry Howard would come by with their trailer, and Harry Dean would help them load up their trailer with supplies to take to Louisiana and Miami training camps for mercenaries.

The match is 100%.  It is brilliant.  Please keep digging!  You are doing GREAT!  

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

11 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Oswald becomes something of a toxic patsy tossed around bickering circles of the Radical Right.

How much verifiable connection did LHO have with the Radical Right?

 

Jason,

I personally relegate this FBI memo to the large stack of "mistaken identity" cases related to Lee Harvey Oswald.  Much more data is needed for me to take this seriously.

All best,
--Paul 

[Paul Trejo]

12 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Whoops!

Paul T - if the Radical Right and Walker killed Kennedy - what do you make of the various mafia clues like this?  

btw - note the date of the memo (11/22/1963)

 <snip>

Jason,

The following is my opinion:

Because the FBI Director hid so many JFK Records, even many FBI agents were chasing rainbows.

One of the main rainbows to chase was Jack Ruby.   In my Walker-did-it CT, it is clear that Jack Ruby had nothing whatsoever to do with the JFK assassination, and was only exploited by the JFK Kill Team to kill Lee Harvey Oswald on Sunday, 11/24/1963, and nothing else.

Yet, the fiction literature linking Ruby and Oswald is enormous.  Then, since Jack Ruby was a member of the Mafia -- the sexy literature that the Mafia killed JFK (perhaps over the death of Marilyn Monroe) became enormous.

Even Professor G. Robert Blakey (HSCA 1979) fell for it, in his  book, Plot to Kill the President (1981).  He later recanted.

Here is my opinion, since you asked.  The whole truth about Jack Ruby was told by a news reporter in Dallas who knew Ruby well -- I'm speaking of Seth Kantor.  His book, Who Was Jack Ruby (1978) is useful to a Walker-did-it CT, because he at least blames the Dallas Police -- which is half-way home.

Nothing about the Mafia or Jack Ruby can be related to the JFK assassination except MONEY.  Carlos Marcello threw money toward anybody who promised to kill JFK.  So did Santos Traficante.   (Sam Giancana only financed efforts to kill Fidel Castro, evidently.)

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited October 27, 2017 by Paul Trejo
clarity