Tim Carroll Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 (edited) John,You have no obligation whatsoever to respond to Vernon's asinine attacks and certainly not on a forum that kicks you out...you run the most objective and decent forum on the Internet. And it's getting better and crowdier all the time. Make no mistake about it. Actually it reflects best on those who completely ignore Vernon, like Zack Shelton and Jim Marrs, but I'm also the first to admit how difficult that is, despite the repeated advice I get on that.... Don't you think that people make up their own mind, when they see what's going on? Wim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wim, There's no question that Dr. Untruth's tactics take their toll. And while you may be correct that "people make up their own mind," some are driven away by the sheer unpleasantness of his obscene intrusions. What I hope that all do see is that truth is the furthest thing from his objectives. I aspire to qualify for your above-named group who can manage to rise above him. No honest person pursuing the truth would treat others as I have seen done. We're not here for the money or glory; we're here for fellowship and information-sharing with people who share our passion about the theft of our country. This is about dignity and patriotism, and I want to honor my fellow patriots who are withstanding such a disgusting assault, and that includes the historical and globally-concerned patriotism of our European and Australian brethren. JFK was the first global, postmodern president: we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's future.... He withstood the pressures of the perpetual war-mongers and paid the ultimate price. We seek the truth to honor these principles which JFK embodied. Tim Edited December 5, 2004 by Tim Carroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Vendettuoli Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 I would just like to state here, I am neither poor nor misguided. And I don't believe this forum's primary focus is teaching kids, that's a sideline. From what I see, it's where teachers discuss their subjects, exchange lesson plans, etc. Another thing Vernon got wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted December 4, 2004 Author Share Posted December 4, 2004 Bob Vernon is celebrating his success at manipulating the administrators at JFK Research. This is a message he posted on the alt.conspiracy.jfk newsgroup. So that lurkers will know... John Simkin of the "educational forum" for children was booted off of the JFKResearch forum, a highly credible forum, and he now has his cronies, Wim Dankbaar, a known fabricator of the truth (www.bobvernon.com/lie.htm), Judyth Baker, Ozzies' self professed "chickie on the side", Tosh Plumlee (the man who has changed his story a MINIMUM of 4 times in 24 years), Nancy Eldreth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 (edited) I just saw that. I am outraged. He doesn't even get facts straight still. He has them but not straight and again that same twisted pattern I am so having problems with. I never stated what he is saying in that regard. He was told NOT to ever say anything like that and he had agreed. I feel like slapping a lawsuit against Bob Vernon myself. It is tempting. Does Bob read these posts? Does Bob read them right? Gee, Bob were on the phone about Spector issue? Does Bob hear? Oh, Bob Vernon someday you are going to get hit hard with your own words, really hard. Strong suggestions Bob delete the post. You got it wrong, and you had agreed not to ever stay anything like that in that way. I am leaving Mr. Simkins forums for a while, I can't take it. I went trough enough, with what these guys did. Yes, she heard in the background the words, "Arlen Spector paid for this, and it is for justice." THOSE ARE THE WORDS BOB> That was the way in which it was stated and she is scared to death even to this day. Now are you b+++++++ happy on what you do. And by the way Bob I do think you are involved in this. NOW YOU DEFEND YOURSELF. PROVE TO ME THAT YOU ARE NOT.................. Edited December 4, 2004 by Nancy Eldreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 (edited) Celebrating his "success"? You have a poor way of choosing your words in this matter. The fact that he needs to try so desperately hard, is not an indicator of "success". More of defeat that he is incapable to take. BTW, for some amusing enlightenment, you might wanna have a look at the thread "emails from Bob Vernon" Wim Edited December 4, 2004 by Wim Dankbaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 I just saw that.I am outraged. He doesn't even get facts straight still. He has them but not straight and again that same twisted pattern I am so having problems with. I never stated what he is saying in that regard. He was told NOT to ever say anything like that and he had agreed. I feel like slapping a lawsuit against him myself. It is tempting. Does he read these posts? Does he read them right? Gee, we were on the phone about Spector issue? Does he hear? Oh, Bob someday you are going to get hit hard with your own words, really hard. Strong suggestions Bob delete the post. You got it wrong, and you had agreed not to ever stay anything like that in that way. I am leaving Mr. Simkins off of here now for a while, I can't take it. I went trough enough, with what these guys did. Yes, she heard in the background the words, "Arlen Spector paid for this, and it is for justice." THOSE ARE THE WORDS BOB> That was the way in which it was stated and she is scared to death even to this day. Now are you b+++++++ happy on what you do. And by the way Bob I do think you are involved in this. NOW YOU DEFEND YOURSELF. PROVE TO ME THAT YOU ARE NOT.................. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ________________________________- Mr Vernon, I swore last night I would back off from all things related to the assassination of JFK for a few days, but I must ask you publicly: Why are you attempting to destroy this forum? It is very clear that you are, and I asked you this questions in a private fashion a few days ago, now I am asking it on the forum itself. I see it as a somewhat rhetorical question so I do not expect you to answer it honestly. I do not even expect you to answer it at all. I just do not know what you are achieving from this. You say it is truth that you seek, and that if someone misrepresents something about you you are merely seeking to to defend yourself. I do not disagree, in principle, with anyone's right to defend themselves, but from what I read, this does not appear to be what you are doing. To report John Simkin to some British authority smacks of something very mean spirited and not at all truth seeking. I am NOT trying to start a disagreement with you, but making an observation. Dawn Meredith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Plumlee Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ________________________________- Mr Vernon, "..... You say it is truth that you seek, and that if someone misrepresents something about you you are merely seeking to to defend yourself. I do not disagree, in principle, with anyone's right to defend themselves, but from what I read, this does not appear to be what you are doing. To report John Simkin to some British authority smacks of something very mean spirited and not at all truth seeking. I am NOT trying to start a disagreement with you, but making an observation....". Dawn Meredith <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My advise to everyone is to ignore this idiot and let him alone. One thing he cannot stand is to be ignored. This drives him up the wall. If you continue to recognized his ramblings then you have given him the attention he craves and cannot live without. Just let him do and say what he wants. His words go nowhere. He is already known for what he is. Forget this lunatic and get back to work and focus on your peojects. To much time has been lost dealing with this leach. And that is about all there is to that. We all have important work ahead and we do not have time to extend to this malcontent and his destructive influence on truth. We do not have time to lose our focus and goals by giving this corruptor of truth our breath and thoughts. His deceit in time will destroy him. TOSH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 I personlly asked Bob that question Dawn and he said because Judyth Baker was allowed to talk freely and well as others on this forum. I think that says a lot. AM I RIGHT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Stocker Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 My advise to everyone is to ignore this idiot and let him alone. One thing he cannot stand is to be ignored. This drives him up the wall. If you continue to recognized his ramblings then you have given him the attention he craves and cannot live without. Just let him do and say what he wants. His words go nowhere. He is already known for what he is. Forget this lunatic and get back to work and focus on your peojects. To much time has been lost dealing with this leach. And that is about all there is to that. We all have important work ahead and we do not have time to extend to this malcontent and his destructive influence on truth. We do not have time to lose our focus and goals by giving this corruptor of truth our breath and thoughts. His deceit in time will destroy him. TOSH <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Tosh, Thanks for the reminder, and I agree. Too often, I find myself wasting time which would be better spent learning (and hopefully contributing something once in awhile). I've been advocating the same thing for months, then I jump back into the same silly games with him. On an unrelated issue, I don't believe I've addressed you before, so I'd like to say that I appreciate your courage (along with so many others) in the quest for truth. Thank you. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Tosh, I do think it is a bit more than that with Vernon. Ignoring him won't work. Not really. He spent a lot of time effort and MONEY and that is the one that will hit the hardest. His loss is what is driving him up a wall. His being crazy is not that, either he is crazed more. Have you talked to him on the phone here lately? He wants this to lose not win for the real truth to come out. He wants it bad. That tells me one more thing. It isn't just the above it tells me THIS GUY IS IN IT TOO DEEP. This thing is personal with him. I know you are ignoring me and frankly I don't care. Sooner or later you will answer this a bit more. I do think you know, a lot more than you are saying or admitting, as well. Don't worry I won't go after you or throw something at you. Just that I can't stop wondering about a lot of ties into this. They are there. The fact that Bob Vernon doesn't want us to talk freely. WELL now, there is something rather big and getting ignored, why is that? Judyth Baker should open up more, her fear is that they will distroy evidence more. That was a threat to her. SO, SHE IS SILENT TO MUCH. She should tell it as it is and stop trying to hide so darn much. They have the number of pages missing accounted for, so why not tell it. Vernon is afraid she will, along with a certain group in Texas. WELL JUDYTH TELL IT> TOSH WHAT EVER YOU CAN SAY TELL IT. So far you go around the edges I think. Am I right or wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Dawn, Your letter assumes you 're talking to a man with reason. You do not believe yet that this man is self-desctructive and mentally unbalanced. He does not see that his actions inflict the most harm upon himself. You'll never be able to make him see that. Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 My advise to everyone is to ignore this idiot and let him alone. One thing he cannot stand is to be ignored. This drives him up the wall. If you continue to recognized his ramblings then you have given him the attention he craves and cannot live without. Just let him do and say what he wants. His words go nowhere. He is already known for what he is. Forget this lunatic and get back to work and focus on your peojects. To much time has been lost dealing with this leach. And that is about all there is to that. We all have important work ahead and we do not have time to extend to this malcontent and his destructive influence on truth. We do not have time to lose our focus and goals by giving this corruptor of truth our breath and thoughts. His deceit in time will destroy him. TOSH <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Tosh, Thanks for the reminder, and I agree. Too often, I find myself wasting time which would be better spent learning (and hopefully contributing something once in awhile). I've been advocating the same thing for months, then I jump back into the same silly games with him. On an unrelated issue, I don't believe I've addressed you before, so I'd like to say that I appreciate your courage (along with so many others) in the quest for truth. Thank you. Steve <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ________________________ As usual Tosh, your wisdom carries the day. I'll be singing Beatles' today as I think of your advice: "whisper words of wisdom, let it be...". And Shanet's post on another thread: "Stay focussed". Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Let me add another advice to never do business with the man. Whether it is for hundreds of thousands of dollars or for 33. ----- Original Message ----- From: xxxx To: Wim Dankbaar Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 6:09 PM Subject: Re: the dvd jfk dear wim, i ordered "the proof" from vernon six months ago. then he cancelled it. in six months he still hasn't refunded my 33 dollars he says he has sent 2 checks that never arrived and a money order that never arrived do you have any idea how i should handle this situation i told him that honesty is the best policy but he just doesn't seem to understand. he seems to be a very corrupt individual. Thanks again for your articles and project. They were extremely entertaining. regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carroll Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 (edited) Responses from Tim Carroll imbedded in bold: Given the title "open letter" anyone may use this, in whole, in any forum they choose, since Dr. Untruth has sent it to alt.conspiracy.jfk (it reflects pretty badly on that forum if they welcome this type of garbage), and only to me as a forwarded message. Bob Vernon <bobkat2000@comcast.net> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr Truth" [Dr. Untruth] Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: OPEN LETTER TO TIM CARROLL > Tim Carroll: > On Simkin's UK forum that teaches children, you wrote: > > Tim Carroll Dec 4 2004, 02:08 PM Post #50 > > Advanced Member > > Group: Members > Posts: 302 > Joined: 23-August 04 > From: Chico, California > Member No.: 1128 > > Richard, > > I agree that you should "feel no need to defend" your research or > abilities as a researcher. It is a lesson to me, here, to see what is > being accomplished on a dignified forum that won't even allow the likes of > "Dr. Truth" in. And I have come to recognize, the hard way, his best > tactic: making us defend ourselves. I, personally, don't take well to > being called a "xxxx." I am not a xxxx. I believe that plenty of adults > who live honorably are hoodwinked by the tactic of making us "defend" our > honor. I have received the benefits of fellowship with people on this > forum who care deeply about our mutual topic. Does anyone believe the > truth is the goal of "Dr. Truth?" I think not. Richard, I hope that Dawn > sees that you were weaving a hypothetical scenario which makes her own > point about "the abundance of infighting." I hope that her joke, signing > off as "agent 69", shows that she understood your point. Let's all > remember Vince Salandria's point about how and why so many worthy > researchers have been driven away from public pursuit of this riddle > wrapped in an enigma. > > Tim > > Mr. Carroll: > > You've been caught in several lies of which you are in denial. You have refused to name a single lie succinctly and with particularity. > You lied about me fraudulently selling a story that I knew was not > true and when confronted with the truth you apologized to me then > continued to bash me on Simkin's UK forum. I stated an interpretation of your statements of having caught Tosh lying back in 1992. That is not a lie; it is an interpretation. If my interpretation is wrong, then I did, and do, apologize. I didn't say that I had agreed to ignore your verbatim language. > You lied about me not apologizing to your wife and when confronted > with the truth, you attempted to weasel your way out of that but to no > avail. I said I don't consider that your so-called apology, based upon an if-then statement which went on to assert your disbelieving that my wife felt threatened constituted an apology. You're neglecting your follow-up comment and further apology to that comment. Call that weaseling if you like. > You now say that I'm not interested in the truth when the truth is > all I'm about. That is yet another lie from you. That is an interpretation, to which I'm entitled - unless you think you have a monopoly on the truth. But then of course, you wouldn't contradict yourself so, and then blame others for noticing. > If you are truly interested in the truth, then let's see you go back > to the "dignified forum" you speak of which is nothing more than a hiding > place for people who can't face serious researchers because the questions > are too tough for them...people such as Tosh Plumlee and Judyth Baker. If I went "back to the 'dignified forum'" of which I speak, which you say "is nothing more than a hiding place for people who can't face serious researchers because the questions are too tough for them," you would probably call me a xxxx for saying that you said exactly that about the entire forum. That's just an interpretive guestimate. > So, let's see you prove what you say Mr. Carroll, and that you are > interested in the truth... It's not your business to see me prove that I am interested in the truth. You said goodbye, and when I missed that, or didn't interpret that it held much meaning, you took me to task. Now you have proven me right in not making much of your word. > First visit here: www.bobvernon.com/Tosh.htm, read every word, then > let's see you go back to your "dignified forum" and ask Tosh Plumlee why > his story has changed 4 times MINIMUM in 24 years instead of agreeing with > every single thing he says and buttering up to him like an egg sucking > dog. I refrained from your previous such statement, but now that you are violating my privacy and intruding again, I will ask you to identify when Tosh's "story has changed 4 times MINIMUM in 24 years," and how that relates to my interpretation that you attempted to earn money from a story which, at some point, you considered untrue? > Second, visit here: www.bobvernon.com/Ira.htm and listen to what a > gentleman with impeccable honor is all about, the great Ira Harkey, who > earned the Pulitzer Prize for his honor, and then go back to your > "dignified forum" and ask Judyth Baker why she lies about Dr. Alton > Ochsner and a KILL CASTRO project. As I have stated publicly, I believe that we all have to make a cost/benefit judgment as to how to spend out time with these matters. I'm not interested in Judyth Baker, or Ochsner. Admittedly, I have never heard of Ira Harkey, but I'm fairly confident that there is no such thing as a Pulitzer Prize for honor, as you just claimed. If I'm wrong about that, you have my apology in that regard. > Let's see you do that, Mr. Carroll, or do you lie to yourself, too, > like you lied to the people in your post above, the ones who have given > you the "benefits of fellowship"...? I don't consider myself a xxxx. My language is precise enough to demonstrate that I mean to make no definitive statements, other than my own interpretations, to which I claim entitlement. This assertion of yours merely raises the question of why are you so pathetically concerned, if I'm just a xxxx. Why exert so much effort to attack me? > And, please, can't you come up with a more original quote than Joe > Peshi's immortal line from Oliver's fictional film "JFK"? In that moment, in that context, no; I was apparently too literately impoverished to "come up with a more original quote" - guilty. I was just trying to relate to my audience. So what? > Most people have seen the movie and are now ready for the truth. > > Aren't you one of those? > > Bob Vernon Your following attachments did not come through. You previously said "goodbye" and I politely apologized for having missed that, and said goodbye in return. So why am I hearing from you now? What is your point? What is your objective? The truth is not gained from such personal attacks as these. You have dragged my wife into this again herein, which I interpret to mean that you consider going after someone's wife to be fair game. In an effort to get rid of you, she read and responded to your e-mail. Now what about yours? Does Mrs. Vernon approve of your aggressive civil harassment? Does she think that my integrity is any business of yours? Does she think my wife should have been dragged into this? Does she, as an officer of the court (not in Contra Costa County, where you live) believe that you should ignore a demand that you cease and desist from further contact? Let her answer for herself, you flaming coward. Mine has. > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=to_post_off.gif > ATTACHMENT part 3 image/gif name=pip.gif > ATTACHMENT part 4 image/gif name=spacer.gif TIM CARROLL Edited December 7, 2004 by Tim Carroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 (edited) Tim, Excellent nail on the head post. For me, you don't need to respond to this lunatic, and it is actually a shame that you're being drawn into spending so much time on this character, same for Dawn and others, but it's always refreshing to read your right-to-the-point assessments. You have a gift of formulating and capturing matters as they are. Wim PS: That forum is a totally unmoderated forum, so anyone can rant and rave as much as they like. Edited December 7, 2004 by Wim Dankbaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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