Jump to content
The Education Forum

Witten's report on Oswald in Mexico just released


Recommended Posts

More H&L nonsense from Jim. The information Jim is quoting from is not titled but appears to be notes by an HSCA staffer recording comments by Wilcott and his lawyer. The HSCA consul was merely concerned about public revelations by Wilcott concerning classified information and so on. And Jim gets into the famous "mystery deaths" subject but Wilcott and any number of people ran around for years expounding whatever theories they wanted to and nothing happened to them. It is clear to me that Wilcott devised his theories as a result of his political views, his CIA experience and exposure to people like Phillip Agee and Jim Garrison. There is no doubt in my mind that he didn't remember the person who allegedly told him about the cryptonym and the project. I have updated an endnote to my Wilcott article that sums up this subject and this will be about all I have to say. I'll let the readers decide:

In the HSCA files on Wilcott there is a reference to an alleged CIA cryptonym for the “Oswald Project” that probably came from notes of Wilcott's statements to an HSCA staffer. It should be noted that two respected sources of extensive information regarding CIA cryptonyms, The Mary Ferrell Foundation and author John Newman, do not recognize this cryptonym (RX-ZIM). Wilcott has alleged that he became aware of the cryptonym from discussions with a CIA employee. In his HSCA testimony (page 12-13), Wilcott stated that he couldn’t remember the cryptonym or the name of the person who told him about it. He confirmed this in his manuscript titled “The Kennedy Assassination” which was published by the HSCA with his testimony and other evidence. However, in a later statement before the Cuban “tribunal” Wilcott's memory improved and he claimed to remember the cryptonym as well as the name of the employee that provided it. The name is illegible in the copy I read which is at the John Armstrong Baylor archive. It is clear that Wilcott couldn’t remember either the cryptonym or the name of the employee with enough conviction to testify to these facts under oath. He probably feared that the HSCA would call the individual to testify and he would deny knowledge of the cryptonym and the "Oswald Project."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 314
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

7 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

More H&L nonsense from Jim. The information Jim is quoting from is not titled but appears to be notes by an HSCA staffer recording comments by Wilcott and his lawyer. The HSCA consul was merely concerned about public revelations by Wilcott concerning classified information and so on

That is precisely what I was going to say in reply to Jim HARGROVES.  We're still seeing this very same thing even today with the recent document release.  They're still blanking out names and information.  For the very same reason that Tracy is mentioning here - it's a simple matter of they not wanting to reveal sources or whatever they deem important enough (even though it's 54 years later) to not reveal. That's all it is and has absolutely nothing to do with a sinister Oswald clone running around in Lee's shadows.

LOL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

As for putting people on ignore on this forum, I think that's sad to be honest with you.  This is a FORUM. In other words it's like a bunch of people sitting around in an open room discussing things.  Ignoring people is like someone going over into the corner of the room and talking only what they believe in. Is that really what a FORUM should be?


I don't put people on ignore myself. Bet there are members whose posts I largely ignore. I ignore them not because of their beliefs, but because they say a lot of things that are demonstrably untrue. I do not wish to be influenced by people who are sloppy with information.

I also largely ignore people who contribute little but criticize freely. Especially when their criticism is mindless or childish.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

That is precisely what I was going to say in reply to Jim HARGROVES.  We're still seeing this very same thing even today with the recent document release.  They're still blanking out names and information.  For the very same reason that Tracy is mentioning here - it's a simple matter of they not wanting to reveal sources or whatever they deem important enough (even though it's 54 years later) to not reveal. That's all it is and has absolutely nothing to do with a sinister Oswald clone running around in Lee's shadows.

LOL.

That’s right, nothing to see here, folks.

Just shop talk by HSCA staffers that the CIA’s “Oswald Project” went by the cryptonym RX-ZIM.  That James Wilcott offered to take a lie detector test and had already passed a “Cuban stress analysis” about his accusations.

Just shop talk by HSCA staffers that the son of an ex-FBI agent had overheard his father tell another agent that Oswald was CIA. And that the father then had a heart attack and died.  And that the son verified Wilcott’s statements.  And that the son was afraid to testify because, as the HSCA staffer described it, “witnesses are still dying.”

Just shop talk by HSCA staffers that Michael Goldsmith and the HSCA “did not want any public revelation on his [Wilcott’s] committee appearance.” And that Wilcott had to agree not to “reveal specifics of specific questions” during his testimony. 

Nothing to see here folks, just keep moving.  Obviously, the HSCA brass was interested only in the truth and getting to the bottom of this “Project Oswald” business.  Maybe if you close your eyes and cover your ears, it will all go away.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/22/2017 at 8:43 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

STOP IT, MR. TREJO!

CIA accountant James Wilcott talked at length to the HSCA about "Lee Harvey Oswald."  Wilcott called it "the Oswald Project." According to Mr. Wilcott, the Oswald Project had a CIA cryptonym.  It was RK-ZIM.

 

RX-ZIM.jpg

Do you understand?  The Harvey and Lee project crypto name at the CIA was RK-ZIM.

Jim,

What nonsense!  First, that document you show says that the CIA crypto-name was approximately RK-ZIM.

Approximately?  How could it be approximately?

That ridiculous report you cite is dated 1978!   Fifteen years after the JFK murder!

It is hearsay about mere hearsay!   It is pure speculation -- which is what Richard Sprague and his Team were famous for!

You have NOTHING with this document, Jim.   Why can't you see that?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2017 at 9:26 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Yet when he was asked what the cryptonym was he said:

Mr. GOLDSMITH - And what did he tell you the cryptonym was?
Mr. WILCOTT - I cannot remember.

So either Wilcott was not sure enough to state under oath what the cryptonym was or another possibility not considered by Jim and friends is he made it up as part of his new hobby of left wing activist. In any case, one pronouncement by someone with an agenda does not make something a fact.

Tracy,

A third possibility is that the incident really happened as he stated it -- but Wilcott failed to understand the incident.

In other words, Wilcott was an accounting clerk in the CIA.  He would not have the same status as a CIA Field Agent, and it is likely, in my opinion, that CIA Field Agents would tease him from time to time.

Tease him, or actually make fun of him.

One day, IMHO, a CIA Field Agent walked up to Wilcott and told him -- as a joke -- that the funds he was exchanging today were for the Lee Harvey Oswald Project.

What a thrill for a four-eyed, green-eye-shade accountant whose entire life was a series of additions and subtractions in a ledger, day after day, month after month, year after year!

It seems to me that Wilcott chose to take that joke as a reality in order to: (1) give his life some excitement; and (2) make himself out to be more than he really was.

This is true of many of the JFK witnesses of "mistaken identity" with regard to Lee Harvey Oswald.

The H&L fanatics take every single "mistaken identity" claim about Lee Harvey Oswald to the bank.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

One day, IMHO, a CIA Field Agent walked up to Wilcott and told him -- as a joke -- that he the funds he was exchanging today were for the Lee Harvey Oswald Project.

I think that certainly is a possibility Paul and thanks for mentioning it. There were at least a couple instances where Willcott was described as "gullible" and that would fit with your theory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

First, that document you show says that the CIA crypto-name was approximately RK-ZIM.

Approximately?  How could it be approximately?

You don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure that out.  Look how the statement is typed in the report: 

“Cryptonym for Oswald Project approx. RX-ZIM.” (The hyphen in RX-ZIM is underlined.)  Why is the hyphen underlined?  Surely because minor variations of the cryptonym must have existed without the hyphen, as in, for example, RX/ZIM or RXZIM or RX ZIM instead of RX-ZIM. 

You can see how similar variations occur across the Web in all sorts of acronyms for illegal CIA operations, such as ZR/RIFLE or MK/ULTRA.  But, of course, CIA apologists don’t want to understand any of these simple matters.

Ever the defense lawyer for the CIA, Mr. Trejo wants us to believe that a 1978 report of statements by a CIA accountant are unreliable because they are dated and contain hearsay evidence.  A real lawyer, though, might explain that "statements against interest" often comprise exceptions to the hearsay rule, and that it is not unreasonable for a professional accountant like Mr. Wilcott to remember for some time that he had helped to pay the alleged assassin of President John F. Kennedy.

Mr. Trejo also wants us to believe that this was all a big joke around the Tokyo station of the CIA.    LOL and all that.  "Nuf said!

Edited by Jim Hargrove
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

You don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure that out.  Look how the statement is typed in the report: 

“Cryptonym for Oswald Project approx. RX-ZIM.” (The hyphen in RX-ZIM is underlined.)  Why is the hyphen underlined?  Surely because minor variations of the cryptonym must have existed without the hyphen, as in, for example, RX/ZIM or RXZIM or RX ZIM instead of RX-ZIM. 

You can see how similar variations occur across the Web in all sorts of acronyms for illegal CIA operations, such as ZR/RIFLE or MK/ULTRA.  But, of course, CIA apologists don’t want to understand any of these simple matters.

Ever the defense lawyer for the CIA, Mr. Trejo wants us to believe that a 1978 report of statements by a CIA accountant are unreliable because they are dated and contain hearsay evidence.  A real lawyer, though, might explain that "statements against interest" often comprise exceptions to the hearsay rule, and that it is not unreasonable for a professional accountant like Mr. Wilcott to remember for some time that he had helped to pay the alleged assassin of President John F. Kennedy.

Mr. Trejo also wants us to believe that this was all a big joke around the Tokyo station of the CIA.    LOL and all that.  "Nuf said!

I think Paul Trejo is experiencing a flash of, shall we say, "inspiration", from his recent attendance at a "nuance" workshop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Jim,

What nonsense!  First, that document you show says that the CIA crypto-name was approximately RK-ZIM.

Approximately?  How could it be approximately?

That ridiculous report you cite is dated 1978!   Fifteen years after the JFK murder!

To add to Paul's quote above, what I'm having a hard time figuring out is how in the world is Jim HARGROVES making this leap from the statements in those 1978 notes and projecting those '78 notes that they're part of the Oswald clone (e.g., Hardly Lee) story?

It's one thing for him to say "See, here's proof that LHO was an secret agent."  But to then take that "he's a secret agent with RK-ZIM" statement and leap frog it to a whole other clone (Hardly Lee) story is quite a leap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

You don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure that out.

No, you don't and it is obvious that Wilcott could not remember what the alleged cryptonym was with enough certainty to swear to it under oath. He stated that he could not remember it both in his testimony and in his "Kennedy Assassination" manuscript. Note also that there are no "RX" cryptonyms listed in the Mary Ferrell database or in John Newman's work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

No, you don't and it is obvious that Wilcott could not remember what the alleged cryptonym was with enough certainty to swear to it under oath. He stated that he could not remember it both in his testimony and in his "Kennedy Assassination" manuscript. Note also that there are no "RX" cryptonyms listed in the Mary Ferrell database or in John Newman's work.

Oh, puhleeze.  Do you simply refuse to read the documents put right in front of your eyes?

Wilcott had to agree "to not reveal specifics of specific questions."  

Can you imagine trying to defend yourself against U.S. government prosecutors charging you with violation of National Security laws and agreements? Can you even imagine the reach of a State-sponsored cover-up?

RX-ZIM_2.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Oh, puhleeze.  Do you simply refuse to read the documents put right in front of your eyes?

Wilcott had to agree "to not reveal specifics of specific questions."  

Can you imagine trying to defend yourself against U.S. government prosecutors charging you with violation of National Security laws and agreements? Can you even imagine the reach of a State-sponsored cover-up? 

Please yourself, Jim Hargrove.

We can all read the silly, unimpressive documents you're placing in front of our eyes.

If Wilcott was really revealing State Secrets, these documents would have been redacted black.

But these are hearsay documents.  They are FILLED with the words "Verify" and "Approximately."

These are not the redactors additions -- these are the STATEMENTS themselves.  They are clearly RUMORS.

They do not reveal FACTS.  They reveal RUMORS and these RUMORS are full of ERRORS.

Nobody cares that these documents are in circulation -- they are not TESTIMONY.  They are not Legal HEARINGS.

They speak of two people talking about Rumors and Hearsay, and somebody walking in on them.

You are REACHING.   You still have NOTHING.   And yet you try to declare that your side SCORED.

Nonsense,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

You are REACHING.   You still have NOTHING.   And yet you try to declare that your side SCORED.

Nonsense,
--Paul Trejo

I understand, Mr. Trejo.  You’re shocked, SHOCKED that I should ignore all decency by daring to read these HSCA documents from the JFK Collection of the National Archives in College Park, Maryland!  

Just who do I think I am, eh?

The nerve of me!

Just because a CIA accountant said the Oswald Project was believed run by the “USSR SR Branch” of the CIA , that CLEARLY means I “still have NOTHING.”  So you say....

RX-ZIM.jpg


Why don't you explain to us how impossible it would be for the "SR Branch" of the CIA to run the Oswald Project?  I'd love to hear your excuses du jour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...