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Witten's report on Oswald in Mexico just released


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14 hours ago, Brendan Boucher said:

I just find it hard to envision a scenario where the Cuban Consulate in Mexico forwarded an application to Havana that did not contain a photograph.  And if they actually did, then it's even more bizarre that the US would be able to doctor the documents (actually photos of documents) without any protestation from Cuba.

We know that the application packet consisted of 6 pages/layers and that at least 3 variations of the application would be made in one sitting.  This is obvious when you compare the images provided to the Warren Commission and then to the HSCA by the Cuban government.    I don't have an issue with the absence of staples/staple holes in one of the photos either.  Different photographs were used for different copies of the application.  And I think you can actually see where a staple may have once been on CE 2564 anyway.

I have no problem accepting that US Government documents were tampered with regularly, but I have serious doubts that pictures of Oswald were somehow added after the photographs of original Cuban documents were obtained.  To me, this is THE main sticking point of the "Oswald never went to Mexico" version of events, because it is not inconceivable to me that he may have been transported surreptitiously without leaving a documented trace. 

If we allow for the idea that Oswald was never in Mexico, I would think that an impersonator using pictures of Oswald to apply is more likely than after the fact additions/alterations.

Brendan,

I agree with all of this.  I point out to skeptics that this material was reproduced by the Lopez Report, as well.   THIS is what links the Mexico City episode to the New Orleans episode during the summer of 1963.

The FAKE FPCC credentials are HERE.   The FAKE CPUSA card is HERE.   This is Guy Banister's work, very clearly and obviously.

Any idea that Lee Harvey Oswald was acting entirely on his own with these documents is entirely ludicrous.   Oswald had accomplices -- and the CIA-did-it CTers let them get away.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 5:35 PM, Brendan Boucher said:

I just find it hard to envision a scenario where the Cuban Consulate in Mexico forwarded an application to Havana that did not contain a photograph. 

Agreed Brendan... so the question becomes...  is this the same application that was filled out by Duran on the 27th?  Are the photos the same as what was provided...

One thing that just screams "problem" is the following  inability to remember a basic element of her job:  and then CORNWELL's top n otch questioning to determine who she could possibly forget the name of the few places she would send tourists or locals for application photos... usually an enterprising person would spiff back people like Duran for sending business their way...

CORNWELL - So, from all the circumstances, did it appear to your that he just went somewhere locally and had the pictures made?
TIRADO - Yeah. I think that I already explained (to) him where he could take the photographs.
CORNWELL - You told him some locations in town where ge could go? Were there some right in the neighborhood of the Consulate there?
TIRADO - That I don't remember.
CORNWELL - All right. But at any rate you knew of some place at the time, mentioned one or two places to him?
TIRADO - Yes.

Now many will claim I'm in the weeds... too much minutia... 
IMHO, the devil is in the details... the truth usually does not have trouble with details...

Even the WCR doesn't lean towards believing Duran:

"Oswald returned to the Cuban Embassy that afternoon..... passport photos he MAY HAVE OBTAINED IN THE UNITED STATES"
the footnote is 1164 which refers to CE2121 p39 (offers nothing) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1140#relPageId=607&tab=page
and CE2249 - shown below.  Because they could not find a single place where those photos could have been taken, and Duran is never asked to name them... MAYBE be brought them from the US...  if so there'd be no need for him to leave the Embassy to get photos taken on Duran's recommendation.

Can't have it both ways...  so yes... a minor detail which if she was truthful and this was a real investigation she would have easily offered the correct location...  Since IT NEVER HAPPENED (according to the 5 years of work I've put in studying Mexico City Mr. Walton) there is little to Authenticate these as the same photos "taken" in Mexico or related to this application... 

Authentication of REAL EVIDENCE includes Chain of Custody:

Real evidence may be authenticated in three ways--by identification of a unique object, by identification of an object that has been made unique, and by establishing a chain of custody. 

Duran identifies these photos as unique to a local shop where she directed him...  SHE is the authentication since the other two are impossible to determine.
But she was not truthful.  The uniqueness of the object is lost upon investigation...  

It is no longer AUTHENTIC evidence which a court can accept as an exhibit without conditions and restrictions...    This process was not used when items was entered into "evidence"... Authentication was assumed or poorly supported and glossed over.  It is here, during Authentication that I see the JFK evidence betraying the Conspiracy...  

Scratch the surface and the veneer crumbles away...  if the overwhelming majority of the evidence cannot be Authenticated (e.g. every item from Dallas secretly went to the FBI Friday night and when returned had more than was taken...  Cadigan and Dulles prove the Chain of Custody cannot be used to Authenticate ANY of the evidence taken...  the Chain is broken...

img_946_758_300.png

img_1141_619_300.png

 

With respect to you being okay about the staples...  
She specifically recalled stapling photos to both application...  these are the two images offered...  it seems to me that one of these was not attached to anything....

 

 

Edited by David Josephs
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In CE 2564 I think you can make out where a staple once was.  And as these would have been from a photo strip, naturally there will be differences.

  OzApStaple.jpg.566b0ad97a19d55b1ff9e7ef8100f472.jpg

 

Just to be clear though David, you believe the Visa application images in existence today are not what was completed on 9/27/63?  That somehow Cuban files were manipulated?

 

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I think you've circled some moiré... background noise on the copy... a staple looks like a staple Brendan...

Suppose you could make that a little smaller?   :blink:  lol

Stumbled upon this today...   these two photos are identical

img_1142_213_200.jpg

 

 

and two more of the photos found in his possessions...  Now didn't Odio say that Leon Oswald looked like he had a stubble beard...  the image with the staples is close... another day or so and.... 

Mr. LIEBELER. Did she think it was Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television, she almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I learned about the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so obvious that it was him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don't know how to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven't shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind of shadow. That is something I noticed. And he was wearing--the other ones were wearing white dirty shirts, but he was wearing a long sleeved shirt.

 

 

 

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 9:19 AM, Brendan Boucher said:

Just to be clear though David, you believe the Visa application images in existence today are not what was completed on 9/27/63?  That somehow Cuban files were manipulated?

 

I simply do not believe these photos were taken in Mexico, that Oswald most likely created them... how many photos does one normally need for applications?  Are the photos taken usually all the same?  Do they take one and make copies....?  Just some things to ponder. 

And I still think the missing staples on the Carbon is more than just nothing...

Edited by David Josephs
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11 minutes ago, Brendan Boucher said:

I fail to see how the location of where the photos were obtained is of any consequence.  Minsk, NO, or Mexico, the crux of the matter is this.  How would Oswald's photo be present on a document coming out of Havana, Cuba if it was not provided to their Mexican Consulate on September 27, 1963?

C'mon Brendan,   you really cannot fathom ANY WAY a photo of Oswald gets attached to a copy of an application? 

What makes you think the Chain of Custody is intact for this application?

(I've sent Bill Simpich a note - maybe he knows how the WC got the Cuban copy of this app.)

Cuba sends up a file... what's in that file? who has the file and for how long before the evidence is entered....

The original has the date typed in at the top "27 de septembre de 1963"....  

CORNWELL - Do you remember how many times he came to the Consulate?
TIRADO - Three times.
CORNWELL - Do you remember the date or dates upon which those three visits occurred?
TIRADO - No, I saw the application. You showed me the other day, and in the Warren Commission was September 27, but I didn't remember, of course, until I read it.

According to the LOPEZ report... OSWALD was at the Cuban Consulate because "his signature is on the application"...  page 405 Lopez2003 part 7 Analysis

They go on to acknowledge that anyone can take blank applications which is countered by stating DURAN saw this person sign the application(s)

Here are the signatures...  Do they look the same to you?  They do NOT to me....

When I get an answer from Bill I'll post it...  If anyone else knows the story of how this document comes to the possession of the WC... please let us know.

5a0ca6017f4c0_2oswaldsignaturesonthe2Cubanconsulateapplicationdontmatch.jpg.948d690eb55387cb65be8a5c10b3cd36.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 11/14/2017 at 11:42 AM, Craig Carvalho said:
  6 hours ago, David Lifton said:

And, of course, there’s also the fact that three Soviet intelligence officers—Nechiporenko, Yatsov (sp), and Kostikov, personally met with Oswald on Saturday morning, 9/28, and there’s no question in their mind that it was Oswald with whom they met.

 

...OSWALD WAS IN MEXICO CITY. 

I don't care how he got there. A train, a plane, an automobile, or his tricycle. He was there...

Why did the CIA create the controversy over Oswald's trip to Mexico that we are now bashing each other over?

Before the assassination it's purpose was to conceal an ongoing operation. Following the assassination it helped conceal the CIA's long hidden "operational interest" in the alleged assassin. 

Craig,

I agree with you that Oswald was in MC and spoke with Kostikov, Nechiporenko, Azcue and Duran.

I don't agree that the CIA "created the controversy".

The CIA-did-it CTers created the controversy, because they want to blame the CIA for the entire MC episode.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

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Opinion: I think Oswald and Company intentionally created this controversy and many others. 

img_1142_213_200_1.jpg

Good find, David. I assume that Commission Exhibit 2788 is the right hand photo of a pair of photos found among Oswald’s possessions and photographed by the Dallas Police below:

From_Texas_History_6.jpg

And I agree that CE 2788 is exactly the same as the “original” visa application photo. I also submit that the visa application “copy” photo, the one you believe has no staple, is exactly the same as the left hand picture in the Dallas Police photo above. 

Below are all four photos. The top two are supposedly from the visa application, and the bottom pair are the pair in Oswald's possessions photographed by the Dallas Police.

MC_Photos_Oswald_Possessions.png

As you said, David, the upper left and lower left are exactly the same photo. And I submit that the upper right and lower right are also identical. Had these photos been made in a commercial photo booth, all four would be different, but they are not. Below are both sets of identical photos overlaid at 50% opacity. 

50_Opasity.png

It’s my hypothesis that Lee Oswald, his handler, and, Oswald’s impersonator had secretly and systematically double-crossed their bosses. That they were simultaneously trying to prevent the assassination, and sabotage Oswald’s patsy bona fides.

When rotated 88 degrees, the three sets of photos below display a 3D images. The bottom set are CE133A and 133C, and they display vivid 3D of Oswald’s backyard, and Oswald’s pasted on head. 

 
3-_D_MC_1173_BYP._Oct_29_2017.png

The middle set of photos are from Oswald’s (probably fake) DD Form 1173 and Oswald’s clearly fake Selective Service card bearing the name Alek J Hidell. It has always been thought that these two photos were identical, but they are not. 

And, of course, the top set of photos are the visa pictures under discussion. While they display 3-D, they are not very impressive because they are of such low quality, and there is no background to give perspective to the 3D. Lack of background perspective is also evident in the middle set of photos, but the pix are of better quality. The 3D is most obvious in the chin area. 

It seems likely to me that Richard Nagell built a unifying characteristic to the three sets of 3D images above, the initials “MC”.

(1) A Mexico City pair of 3D images

(2) A Marine Corps pair of 3D images

(3) A Mannlicher Carcano pair of 3D images

I also think there would have been a fourth pair of Mannlicher Carcano 3D images - CE 133B had a 3D mate that went missing, just like 133C almost did.

So if the puzzle maker, Richard Nagell, created the “MC” impersonation and 3D stunts, why the initials “MC”?

Possibly because “MC” is also a Roman numeral. It stands for “Eleven Hundred”, and this anagrams to only one elegant and meaningful thing:

“RN 3D VENUE: LEE H”

Letter/Number translation key:

(A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25)

One tool used for the making of these photos was most probably the camera below, Oswald’s “Stereo Realist”, which would have been tripod mounted and tilted at 88 degrees. 

Unknown-3.jpg

"Stereo Realist" anagrams to:

"LEE'S ROSETTA. R/I" ("R/I" can stand for Oswald's handler and impersonator, "Richard and Igor", but the puzzle is much bigger than that)

To view the three sets of 3D images, one needs to get a hold of good quality Stereoscope, and there are plenty of vintage examples out there. Ask your friends and relatives and you’ll surely come up with one. 

images-1.jpg

It’s possible to view these directly on you computer monitor with many of the Stereoscopes. For proper viewing, Oswald’s nose on the left photo, for example, should be very close to 3 inches from Oswald’s nose in the right photo. Do whatever you need to do to achieve this 3-inch relationship.

David, if you come up with the mate to the CE 2788 you posted, I think we would have a much better 3D image of the visa pictures.

I tried to keep anagrams to a minimum in this post, but I am working on a more complete explanation of the Oswald and Company anagram puzzles associated with the 3D pictures above (I might be a while).

Just one more anagram: “Lee Harvey Oswald” anagrams to:

“LHO SWAY REVEALED”

4_Degree_Tilt.png

 
 

 

 
 
 
Edited by Tom Hume
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2 hours ago, Tom Hume said:

Opinion: I think Oswald and Company intentionally created this controversy and many others. 

Good find, David. I assume that Commission Exhibit 2788 is the right hand photo of a pair of photos found among Oswald’s possessions and photographed by the Dallas Police below:

And I agree that CE 2788 is exactly the same as the “original” visa application photo. I also submit that the visa application “copy” photo, the one you believe has no staple, is exactly the same as the left hand picture in the Dallas Police photo above. 

Below are all four photos. The top two are supposedly from the visa application, and the bottom pair are the pair in Oswald's possessions photographed by the Dallas Police.

As you said, David, the upper left and lower left are exactly the same photo. And I submit that the upper right and lower right are also identical. Had these photos been made in a commercial photo booth, all four would be different, but they are not....

Tom,

All quite fascinating.  I always enjoy your posts.

The following is my opinion.

I want to offer an alternate interpretation of the photographs you shared.   My source will be former Forum member, Jack White, the photography buff.   In looking at one of those photographs, we see that Oswald's head is wider than the others -- and in another -- Oswald's head is narrower than the other.

This is because -- said Jack White -- the USSR made two photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald in which they took one side of his face, and flipped it over so they could make it look like two sides of his face -- and they pasted those together.

They did this with both sides of Oswald's face.  The result was two different photographs that looked like two completely different people.  (Anybody can do this with the average face.  It's fun to try.)

In the one case, we have the wide-headed Oswald, and in the other case we have the narrow-headed Oswald.   Both are Oswald -- and yet both are not Oswald.  That was the USSR version of "plausible deniability."   That was reportedly SOP for the USSR.

The photograph supplied by Havana for Lee Harvey Oswald was COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THOSE TWO.  The Cuban Embassy in Mexico City reportedly received it on or about Tuesday, October 1, 1963.   It was reportedly four copies of one photo, hand-delivered from Lee Harvey Oswald to Sylvia Duran on Friday, September 27, 1963. 

The question becomes -- who makes Four Copies of One Photo?   Now, you suggested strikingly, if those photos were made in a common photo booth during 1963, ALL FOUR POSES WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT.

I never thought of that before, but when I look back at all the times that my family and I had used photo booths back in the day, every single one of them gave you four poses for $1.   It was always four poses, and that was part of the fun of it -- everybody was laughing by the fourth pose.

I don't remember one single photo booth that took one photograph and gave us four copies of one photograph.

Also, the story of Sylvia Duran (IIRC) is that Oswald came to her with an application without any photographs, and Sylvia told him, "We can't process this Visa application without photographs.  Oswald said, "I'll be right back -- I need to go to my hotel room to get them." Then, in a matter of minutes, Oswald returned with these four photographs.  Sylvia stapled them then and there.

Now -- people have looked for a photo booth in Mexico City close to the Embassy Compound -- and never found one.   But even if they did, isn't it certain that it would have been the standard, commercial booth that gave FOUR POSES for $1?

So, the question is -- where did Oswald get the photos at the last minute?   The easy answer is that he already had them in his suitcase, and he forgot them in his first visit.  But then we must ask -- where did he get these small photos -- four copies of one single pose?  Was it in the USA?   But where?  Not a photo booth, right?  The US Post Office?

I don't know what a US Post Office offered in those days for a Visa application.   Maybe it was Four Copies of One Pose.   Does anybody here remember?  I sure don't.

All best,
--Paul

P.S.  Here is a link with a narrow-headed Oswald photo:

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-life-and-death-of-lee-harvey-oswald/3/

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Paul Trejo wrote: “So, the question is -- where did Oswald get the photos at the last minute?   The easy answer is that he already had them in his suitcase, and he forgot them in his first visit.  But then we must ask -- where did he get these small photos -- four copies of one single pose?  Was it in the USA?   But where?  Not a photo booth, right?  The US Post Office?”

Opinion: My guess is that the photos are composites of Lee and his doppelganger created by Lee Oswald’s handler/cohort, Richard C. Nagell (possibly with first-class help), and Lee’s doppelganger/cohort took the photos to the Cuban Embassy. There could be many reasons why the Oswald person appeared to come unprepared, to come without pictures. One reason could be that the Oswald person was in the act of creating a memorable experience, and this way, he got to come back again and be even more memorable. 

Mexico City is too complicated for me, Paul. It makes my head hurt. I’m just trying to understand what appears to be a large collection of intentionally created letter/number puzzles surrounding Lee Oswald and the assassination. 

Edited by Tom Hume
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8 hours ago, Tom Hume said:

Opinion: My guess is that the photos are composites of Lee and his doppelganger created by Lee Oswald’s handler/cohort, Richard C. Nagell (possibly with first-class help), and Lee’s doppelganger/cohort took the photos to the Cuban Embassy. There could be many reasons why the Oswald person appeared to come unprepared, to come without pictures. One reason could be that the Oswald person was in the act of creating a memorable experience, and this way, he got to come back again and be even more memorable. 

Mexico City is too complicated for me, Paul. It makes my head hurt. I’m just trying to understand what appears to be a large collection of intentionally created letter/number puzzles surrounding Lee Oswald and the assassination. 

Tom,

The following is my opinion.

The Mexico City episode does not make my head hurt, because Bill Simpich (2014) has effectively absolved the CIA high-command from any knowledge of anything about Oswald in MC except their top secret Mole Hunt.

The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald brought a Fake FPCC Resume to Mexico City in September 1963, matches the fact that Oswald was circulating a Fake FPCC Resume in New Orleans in August, 1963.  That is easy to see, right?

Guy Banister was behind the August, 1963 Fake FPCC.  Therefore, Guy Banister was behind the September, 1963 Fake FPCC.   The CIA is not the handler.

I eliminate Robert Nagell (CIA) as a handler because of the report that Robert Nagell told Lee Harvey Oswald that if he succeeded in getting an instant Visa to Cuba, that Nagell would shoot him dead.  So, it sure wasn't Nagell trying to get Oswald a Visa in Mexico City.

It was Guy Banister.  And we know from Jeff Caufield (2015) that Guy Banister was 100% Radical Right.  Segregationist and everything.  That's patent.

Yet just because Guy Banister was a racist segregationist -- that does not mean this was top of his agenda.  Killing Fidel Castro was the top of his agenda.  It was the top of every Right-winger's agenda in 1963.  It was even top of the CIA agenda in 1963 -- even though they were not the handlers of Lee Harvey Oswald.  (Guy Banister may have led David Atlee Phillips to believe that he was a "handler," in order to get cash from Phillips.  But that was a joke.)

That suggests strongly to me that Lee Harvey Oswald was in Mexico City -- on orders from Guy Banister -- trying to trick his way into Havana, Cuba, to join a plot already in progress in Cuba to assassinate Fidel Castro.  Guy Banister probably promised Oswald a lot of money if Oswald was successful (and probably also falsely promised a full-time job in the CIA, or at least the chance of one, if Oswald made it back alive).

Given this, the question remains open -- where did somebody get FOUR COPIES of ONE PHOTO in 1963?   Was there a special brand of Photo Booth that did this?  I ask because the Oswald photos seem to be exactly the same size as Photo Booth photos.  Or maybe the US Post Office issued them.  I don't know.

All best,
--Paul

Edited by Paul Trejo
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THAT just made my head hurt....

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Given this, the question remains open -- where did somebody get FOUR COPIES of ONE PHOTO in 1963?   Was there a special brand of Photo Booth that did this?  I ask because the Oswald photos seem to be exactly the same size as Photo Booth photos.  Or maybe the US Post Office issued them.  I don't know.

Curious Paul... from the reproductions - how do you know the size of the images?

Passport photos - if you check the board Tom posted with multiple photos - are the small ones...  

The woman's job is to help customers apply for a variety of things that require photos...  she mentioned "one or two place" and yet the search for a location having taken these photos was never found... so the WCR concludes that these may have been printed in the US.

Sounds to me that Duran is not interested in confirming this was Oswald... the bracelet that Ozzie supposedly bought in Mexico was also traced and found NOT to be available in Mexico...

Oh yes... Duran and Azcue tell us it was not Oswald  yet Odio and her sister recognized him immediately...  One is WCR front and center... the other is hidden away...

I think we can piece that together from there, no?

 

CORNWELL - So, from all the circumstances, did it appear to your that he just went somewhere locally and had the pictures made?
TIRADO - Yeah. I think that I already explained (to) him where he could take the photographs.
CORNWELL - You told him some locations in town where ge could go? Were there some right in the neighborhood of the Consulate there?
TIRADO - That I don't remember.
CORNWELL - All right. But at any rate you knew of some place at the time, mentioned one or two places to him?

TIRADO - Yes.

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Four copies of one photo?  Major cities had shops specializing in turning out passport photos in a few hours.  Four prints sounds like a standard order.  Surely they had such shops in tourist traps and hotbeds of international intrigue such as New Orleans and Mexico City.

Edited by David Andrews
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19 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

Four copies of one photo?  Major cities had shops specializing in turning out passport photos in a few hours.  Four prints sounds like a standard order.  Surely they had such shops in tourist traps and hotbeds of international intrigue such as New Orleans and Mexico City.

Of course they did... Duran names a couple for Oswald...

These places keep negatives.  Should have been a simple thing to look into a few places around the compund and secure Oswald's negatives...
Uh, but since it was not Oswald in Mexico, these photos and this application could use a bit more Chain of Custody work....

The investigation offers nothing to put the photos and Mexico City together.... and in fact leads the WC to state they MAY have been made in the US.

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It doesn't matter where the photos originated.  For the purpose of establishing Oswald's presence in the Cuban Consulate on 9/27 they stand as the best evidence.

 

David asks if I can imagine a scenario where the Oswald photographs are added to a blank application that unknown individuals have procured, filled out with the same kind of typewriter used in the Consulate, somehow signed by Consul Mirabal, sent to Havana, processed and stamped on 10/10, then finally denied on 10/15 by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  I mean, I suppose it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities.  Surely it is easier to believe than the US altering the documents and photos that were provided to the WC by Cuba.

 

I'm not saying I'm certain Oswald was in Mexico, as I think out and out impersonation is nearly as likely.  But to rule it out completely and invalidate the Visa Application as a historical document on account of minutiae from Duran's 1978 testimony is unwise in my opinion. Especially as she does not unequivocally say the LHO killed in Dallas was not in her office on multiple occasions.  

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