David Josephs Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) On 11/16/2017 at 11:11 AM, Brendan Boucher said: It doesn't matter where the photos originated. For the purpose of establishing Oswald's presence in the Cuban Consulate on 9/27 they stand as the best evidence. David asks if I can imagine a scenario where the Oswald photographs are added to a blank application that unknown individuals have procured, filled out with the same kind of typewriter used in the Consulate, somehow signed by Consul Mirabal, sent to Havana, processed and stamped on 10/10, then finally denied on 10/15 by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I mean, I suppose it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities. Surely it is easier to believe than the US altering the documents and photos that were provided to the WC by Cuba. I'm not saying I'm certain Oswald was in Mexico, as I think out and out impersonation is nearly as likely. But to rule it out completely and invalidate the Visa Application as a historical document on account of minutiae from Duran's 1978 testimony is unwise in my opinion. Especially as she does not unequivocally say the LHO killed in Dallas was not in her office on multiple occasions. That's not the scenario I asked to imagine Brendan.... A man walks in and by 10:37am (check to see when the FBI says he arrived... checked into his hotel... and get to the Cuban compund... just sayin') is on the phone to the Soviet Military Attache who tells this person to call a different number... the consulate... any idea how our OSWALD has the Russian Military Attache's number Brendan? Anyway... Duran gives him the names of a couple of places to get photos for the application... she types it up with a carbon in a somewhat strange manner in that the two applications are not "copies" of each other as much as the typing from the original makes it to this carbon in a very skewed, and unaligned way... If you've seen my comparisons, lining them up and into a typewriter would be very difficult. When one lines up the "779" and the paper in general... the carbons are not... When you line up the typing, nothing else works... just another detail. Do we agree the two signatures are not really the same at all..? I am not saying the applications were created from thin air... just that the photos attached are conveyed to us as a single photographic reproduction of application and photo together... We know Duran and Azcue describe a different person in their presence than was Ruby's target... "He could be convinced".... All I am suggesting is that the photo attached to the photocopied application does not have to be the same photo as the one sent to Cuba. Making a copy of something is the easiest way to alter it... Putting a different photo in there is not all that hard and was more straight forward back then. Staple the picture you want and make a copy... whether that happened in Mexico, Cuba or the US... IDK... The alteration, correction, replacement and disappearance of evidence is the signature act in this case... this one is very easy... I don't "rule it out" I use it as an example that the Evidence IS the Conspiracy... If he didn't go to Mexico in the manner the FBI offers... and the FBI offers a ton to try and prove he did... the FBI is lying about either him going at all, or how he went if he did... and they are offering us evidence like this to support their case.... forgive me for being somewhat skeptical about its authenticity, especially since I altered it by putting a different photo there.. Something else not address Brendan... Azcue claims this person was there 2 days before the application date.... which was the 27th... making that the 25th... He was in Austin with Mrs. DANNELLY on the 25th... proven. Sadly, a simple thing like a staple really does matter... when authenticating evidence. DJ Edited December 13, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) David Andrews and Paul, there seems to be some confusion about there being four extant identical visa-type photos. I can’t speak for David J, but I think he would agree: The two supposed pictures from the Cuban visa application are different - as if they were separate clicks of the camera. The two photos in the Dallas Police collage in my post above are also different - as if they were separate clicks of the camera. However, both sets of two pix are exactly the same - twin pairs of slightly different pictures. And it’s my view that this is because all four pictures came from the same click of a stereo 3D camera rotated 88 degrees (However, I think it’s deeper than that, because the photos are also composites of Lee Oswald’s ears, and Lee’s doppelganger/partner’s face). In my post yesterday, I provided what I believe are three sets of 3D images, and the letters “MC” might be one of Richard Nagell's planned unifying characteristics: (1) A Mexico City pair of 3D images (2) A Marine Corps pair of 3D images (3) A Mannlicher Carcano pair of 3D images I also think there would have been a fourth pair of Mannlicher Carcano 3D images - CE 133B had a 3D mate that went missing, just like 133C almost did. So if the puzzle maker, Richard Nagell, created the “MC” impersonation and 3D stunts, why the initials “MC”? “MC” is also a Roman numeral, it’s “Eleven Hundred”, and this anagrams to only one elegant and meaningful thing: “RN 3D VENUE: LEE H” Letter/Number translation key: (A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) Edited November 17, 2017 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Tom... all I can say is I hope you're right... You remain one of the very few looking at this from that angle and working it thru... I know so many find it hard to follow and a bit out there... Understanding the Intelligence World of the 1963 Cold War requires such an approach. Reminds me of a quote from the movie "Barfly" "He's as right as any of us" Keep on rocking Tom.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Boucher Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, David Josephs said: All I am suggesting is that the photo attached to the photocopied application does not have to be the same photo as the one sent to Cuba. Making a copy of something is the easiest way to alter it... Putting a different photo in there is not all that hard and was more straight forward back then. Staple the picture you want and make a copy... whether that happened in Mexico, Cuba or the US... IDK... The alteration, correction, replacement and disappearance of evidence is the signature act in this case... this one is very easy... Then why has Cuba been playing along with this charade since 1964? The Warren Commision exhibit is a photo of a photo sent from Havana. I find it inconceivable that this image could be altered and Castro would go along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Carvalho Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 18 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Craig, I agree with you that Oswald was in MC and spoke with Kostikov, Nechiporenko, Azcue and Duran. I don't agree that the CIA "created the controversy". The CIA-did-it CTers created the controversy, because they want to blame the CIA for the entire MC episode. Regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, You and I share a common interest in this case. However, I would have to agree with the idea that the CIA was responsible for the Mexico City charade, (not with any particular group here mind you). ALL of Oswald's activities both during and after his defection, were being closely monitored by the CIA. Let me be more specific. James Angleton was monitoring Oswald, and kept his 201 file under close wraps within the CI/SIG. This explains a lot. It explains why there "appeared" to be a 16 month gap between the time Oswald defected, and the opening of his 201 file. It also explains why Win Scott's "official" cable to CIA HQ regarding Oswald in Mexico City fails to mention Oswald's visit to the Cuban consulate, an oversight that Scott's close colleague, David Atlee Phillips could not explain to the HSCA. Oddly enough it was Phillips who drafted it. In Scott's memoir, which was finally released to his son Michael, (heavily redacted), after a protracted legal battle, Scott writes of Oswald's visit to Mexico City... "Every piece of information concerning Lee Harvey Oswald was reported immediately after it was received... These reports were made on all his contacts with both the Cuban Consulate and with the Soviets." Scott sent along with the cable two requests 1.) that a "trace" be made on Oswald, 2.) a photograph of Oswald. If the surveillance cameras weren't working during Oswald's visit(s), then why would Scott request his photograph? The response the Mexico City station chief received from Langley purported to be "...the latest headquarters information...", yet it said nothing of Oswald's activities in New Orleans just weeks prior to his arrival in Mexico... activities that both the FBI and CIA were aware of. The photograph, which would have been Phillips' responsibility to compare with the surveillance film, never arrived. And lastly, it would explain the CIA's initial claim to the Warren Commission that they knew nothing of Oswald's trip to Mexico until after the president's assassination. For four years Oswald had been carefully watched by both the FBI and the CIA, yet for some reason, someone, wanted it kept a secret even before the assassination. That man was James Jesus Angleton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) On 11/16/2017 at 12:01 PM, Brendan Boucher said: Then why has Cuba been playing along with this charade since 1964? The Warren Commision exhibit is a photo of a photo sent from Havana. I find it inconceivable that this image could be altered and Castro would go along with it. The same question can be asked about virtually everyone involved that night.... Specter got to be a Senator, LBJ POTUS, Hoover kept his job, the CIA stayed intact... I can speculate... but why? I'll ask you... there were over 20 men for the FBI, and the resources of the CIA, DFS, I&NS, etc.... yet the only place they can put the patsy is within the walls of the Cuban Compound.... how come? and this comes from Scott, Andersen, Mann... everyone down there and of course the FBI assets who looked for a sign of him all of November. None of the other leads providing corroboration for his being there were authenticated... in fact, many were removed from consideration for NOT being from Mexico.... I'm not able to explain the motivations behind every act here Brendan... and of course I could be 100% wrong and it WAS Oswald on the 27th thru the 3rd.... My focus was to prove the evidence provided by the FBI for this trip was fraudulent and created to tell a story that needed to be told in order to counteract a story about Oswald with others in a car going to Mexico City to get to Cuba to get to Russia.... so the assassination could be laid at Castro's feet. Curious... have you read any of Peter Dale Scott's work? He is instrumental in showing the CIA/DFS drug connections and how they shaped activity around the world. He also talks of Phase 1 and 2 of the conspiracy... Phase 1 being the phony Oswald conspiracy which morphs into Phase 2 - Oswald did it alone. You can see the change, especially in MX with regards to Alvarado... Edited March 3, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Boucher Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, David Josephs said: My focus was to prove the evidence provided by the FBI for this trip was fraudulent... I sincerely applaud your work on this matter. I'm not sure how anyone could read your series and conclude that Lee Oswald, or anybody at all, could have made the trip laid out in the Warren Report. You've literally put that one to bed. I do find PDS' work on Mexico City fascinating and much of it makes sense. Thank you for this debate, I think Mexico City is central to understanding the forces at play in this drama. It is disconcerting though that so many people have worked at this angle for so long and yet there are so precious few concrete facts available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Thanks for the kind words Brendan... it truly means a lot to those of us hacking away at adding to our understanding. One part of me agrees with you about MX while another... a gut one, suggests to me that Lee HENRY and Goodpasture's mystery man started life as something not at all connected to JFK in Dallas... but with enough dangling connections that could be paired when needed. Yet as I've posted... it seems to me the CIA made sure it's assets or those they were maneuvering could be used for a variety of things depending on the need... truly pawns in a game. Kind of like Tippit.... Would it be the strangest coincidence if an estranged husband did the shooting on a street he was known to frequent... Regardless, Oswald will always be paired with Tippit... despite many seeing him not the shooter in this at all. There is duality in virtually every aspect of the case... on purpose. That way witnesses are telling the truth as they know it despite it contradicting what others saw and heard. Much success in your JFK endeavors... DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Thanks for the kind words Brendan... it truly means a lot to those of us hacking away at adding to our understanding. One part of me agrees with you about MX while another... a gut one, suggests to me that Lee HENRY and Goodpasture's mystery man started life as something not at all connected to JFK in Dallas... but with enough dangling connections that could be paired when needed. Yet as I've posted... it seems to me the CIA made sure it's assets or those they were maneuvering could be used for a variety of things depending on the need... truly pawns in a game. Kind of like Tippit.... Would it be the strangest coincidence if an estranged husband did the shooting on a street he was known to frequent... Regardless, Oswald will always be paired with Tippit... despite many seeing him not the shooter in this at all. There is duality in virtually every aspect of the case... on purpose. That way witnesses are telling the truth as they know it despite it contradicting what others saw and heard. Much success in your JFK endeavors... DJ DJ - Glad you mention Tippit. McBride's book Into the Nightmare was interesting. First, McBride interviewed Tippit's 100 yr old father, who was sharp as a tack, and had never been questioned before. He said among other things that Tippit was a crack shot. McBride also examines his movements before his death, and it's pretty clear he was in a panic about something. Tippit, according to the official story, could not have been at Dealey Plaza shooting because he was elsewhere arresting a woman shoplifter. That alibi does not hold up. There is no record of his booking her, which is what is claimed, and the store owner who says he made the call to the police which resulted in Tippit being dispatched to the scene provided that information over a decade after the fact. Tippit was clearly spotted by multiple credible witnesses at a gas station a mile from Dealey Plaza 15 minutes after the assassination, close enough. I've always wondered about Tippit's possible involvement for the simple reason that he was murdered. Folks, either Oswald killed him because he had stopped Oswald and left him little choice, or he was killed by others. Dead men tell no tales. Even if he wasn't a shooter that day, he might have aided the killers in some way, might have known too much, was a bit mentally unstable from his military service, and might have been considered a poor risk by the plotters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) Great point Paul.... My take is he was one of a very few who could easily put Ruby and Oswald together... the three ate together just before the 22nd.. if the witness is accurate.... We must also consider the 2nd police car which backed its way back up an alley and the testimony related... From JA's work: Seconds after shots were fired, Mrs. Holan saw a man (probably Capt. Westbrook) emerge from the 2nd police car and walk toward Tippit's body lying in the street, apparently to see if he (Tippit) was alive or dead. In 1990 a resident of the neighborhood was interviewed by JFK researcher Prof. Bill Pulte, on the condition of anonymity. This resident said that he heard that a man walked down the driveway and approached Tippit just after the shooting. In January, 1968, Playboy Magazine interviewed Jim Garrison. In response to the Garrison interview a reader wrote to Playboy and said, “I read Playboy's Garrison interview with perhaps more interest than most readers. I was an eyewitness to the shooting of policeman Tippit in Dallas on the afternoon President Kennedy was murdered. I saw two men, neither of them resembling the pictures I later saw of Lee Harvey Oswald, shoot Tippit and run off in opposite directions. There were at least half a dozen other people who witnessed this. My wife convinced me that I should say nothing, since there were other eyewitnesses. Her advice and my cowardice undoubtedly have prolonged my life-or at least allowed me now to tell the true story...” (Playboy, January 1968, Vol. 15, No 1, pg 11. Mrs. Acquilla Clemmons (interview August, 1964) said that after the shooting she saw the killer wave to the other man and they departed the scene in two different directions. This is a clear indication that the killer (LEE Oswald) and the occupants of the 2nd police vehicle were co-conspirators in the murder of Officer Tippit. From her 2nd floor bedroom Mrs. Holan hurried downstairs to the 1st floor and outside the house. She watched the man standing beside Tippit as he began to retrace his path up the driveway while the 2nd police car backed up to the alley. The 2nd police vehicle quickly and quietly left before witnesses began to arrive at the scene. Sam Guinyard, who worked at the Harris Motor Company, directly south and across the alley from Virginia and Barbara Davis' home (400 E. 10th), apparently saw the 2nd police car. In 1970 Guinyard told JFK researcher Michael Brownlow that he saw a police car in the alley shortly after Tippit was shot. After the shooting the second occupant of the police car, Sgt. Kenneth Croy, remained at 10th & Patton and was seen moments later by Virginia Davis. Capt. Westbrook quickly left the scene, briefly met up with LEE Oswald, and then drove the police vehicle back to the TSBD and arrived around 1:15 PM. Westbrook and Croy, occupants of the 2nd police car, were co-conspirators whose involvement and manipulation of evidence will be further explained. Mrs. Margie Higgins, a neighbor of Mrs. Holan who lived at 417 East 10th St. said, "Well, I was watching the news on television and for some reason the announcer turned and looked at the clock and said the time was six minutes after one (1:06 PM). At that point I heard the shots." Mrs. Higgins described the shooter and said, "He definitely was not the man they showed on television." Mrs. Higgins called the police. Edited April 12, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Sawtelle Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 David I worked for the US government where my job required travel to foreign countries. During that time I had to renew my US passport three times. I currently live in a foreign country and I've had to renew my passport twice. Five times total. So I write from experience. There is/was always a shop either across the street from or within one or two blocks of the US consulate where one could have copies made and passport photos developed while you wait. I never had to come back later for my passport photos ... they were turned over to me usually within an hour. I would get 6 photos duplicate. All the same size (the consulates have strict requirements on size of photos) and all the exact same photo. Workers at the consulate will tell you where you can get passport photos because certain shops know the dimensions required. Since Lopez and Hardman didn't find a shop that Oswald had to have used for his photos (shop close proximity to the consulate) I'm sure Oswald's passport photos were not developed in Mexico City. I think it's common knowledge that Oswald was given a new passport in the US before his alledged trip to Mexico City. He would have had to have passport photos made wherever he obtained his new passport. It's possible he would use those photos developed for his new passport in Mexico City. Research required 1. Where did Oswald get his new passport? 2. Size requirements for passport photos US`passport vs Cuba passport? maybe too late but it may be fruitfull to checkout the area around the passport office where Oswald got his new passport and check the dimensions of Oswald's passport photos which apparently came back from Cuba with the passport photos found in Oswald's property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said: Since Lopez and Hardman didn't find a shop that Oswald had to have used for his photos (shop close proximity to the consulate) I'm sure Oswald's passport photos were not developed in Mexico City. Hey there George... 58 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said: Research required 1. Where did Oswald get his new passport? 2. Size requirements for passport photos US`passport vs Cuba passport? In my post above you can see both the PASSPORT photo and the Visa Photo... here they are side-by-side Taken the same day? 1. He got the new Passport in New Orleans... in the US most of these offices had their own cameras - no? If you are mailing off your application, that's another thing... 2. Size: Was this the same in 1963? 6mm is not much of a difference.... Cuba Passport photos and Visa photos Requirements: 4 photos passport size (45 x 45 mm).Feb 14, 2011 2 x 2 inches (51 x 51 mm) in size. Sized such that the head is between 1 inch and 1 3/8 inches (between 25 and 35 mm) from the bottom of the chin to the top of the head. View the Photo Composition Template for more size requirement details. Taken within the last 6 months to reflect your current appearance. Acceptable—Photo is clear and in color, reproduces skin tones accurately, and is properly exposed with no shadows George... I'm more in the camp that Oswald did these himself... or at least reproduced them himself... 58 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said: maybe too late but it may be fruitfull to checkout the area around the passport office where Oswald got his new passport and check the dimensions of Oswald's passport photos which apparently came back from Cuba with the passport photos found in Oswald's property. Again... with a 6mm variance, cutting them a little off will result in size differences... I truly believe the one image of the Carbon Copy that does not have any staples on the photo provides more info on the possibilities of forgery than anything else... Bill Simpich mentioned to me that he thought Mexican authorities procured the Cuban copy... but he is not sure and I have yet to find anything that tells us. (I finally came across the explanation) Copies of photos... copies of photos of photos... https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol3/pdf/HSCA_Vol3_0918_2_Azcue.pdf Mr. CORNWELL. Do those pictures of that individual appear to you to be the same individual who visited the consulate in Mexico City on the occasions you have previously described to us? Senor AZCUE. Truly, this photograph is one that I saw for the first time when the honorable U.S. committee members came to Cuba in April of this year, and I was surprised that I believe that it was not the same person. Fifteen years had gone by so it is very difficult for me to be in a position to guarantee it in a categorical form. But my belief is that this gentleman was not, is not, the person or the individual who went to the consulate . Senor Azcue, I would like at this time to show you JFK exhibit F-407. For the record, that would appear to be a carbon copy of the previous JFK exhibit F-408 . The previous JFK exhibit, F-408, is a photograph of a visa application which the staff of this committee took while they were in Cuba this year. It was taken of a document which was provided to us by the Cuban Government in an original form. We were allowed to inspect the original and to photograph it . The exhibit which we just placed on the easel, JFK F-407, is a photograph of a visa application which was provided to the Warren Commission in 1964 by the Cuban Government. As you can tell, the writing on JFK F-407 appears to be somewhat displaced on the lines; part of it sitting directly on top of lines instead of resting over them as you would expect, and otherwise its content appears to be virtually identical to 408. So they took a photo of the carbon document and gave it to the WCR in 1964 and in the mid 70's a photo is taken of the supposed "original"... which ultimately becomes F-408. How you feeling about the process, format and chain of custody for those photos of documents 12 years apart...? JFK Exhibit F-434 The passport photo you inquired about George... how many times does a witness need to state this? Mr. CORNWELL. Did the individual who visited the consulate look like that individual? Senor AZCUE. No. Mr. CORNWELL. What differences were there? Senor AZCUE. Many differences . The individual who visited the consulate is one whose physiognomy or whose face I recall very 'clearly . He had a hard face. He had very straight eyebrows, cold, hard, and straight eyes. His cheeks were thin. His nose was very straight and pointed. This gentleman looks like he is somewhat heavier, more filled, his eyes are at an angle with the outside of his eye, at an angle with his face. I would have never identified him or recognized him. I believe I can recall with fairly good accuracy the individual in such a way that I could recognize him now in a group of 100, that is better than a photograph of him because obviously during a period of 15 years he might change. I think I could recognize him, and this is not him A link to 408 which is posted upside down... and the carbon F-407 below.... Wanna bet the FBI never looked to see if any of the cameras in his possession could have been the source for these photos? DJ https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=954&search="f-407"#relPageId=133&tab=page Edited November 16, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Craig Carvalho said: Paul, You and I share a common interest in this case. However, I would have to agree with the idea that the CIA was responsible for the Mexico City charade, (not with any particular group here mind you). ALL of Oswald's activities both during and after his defection, were being closely monitored by the CIA. Let me be more specific. James Angleton was monitoring Oswald, and kept his 201 file under close wraps within the CI/SIG. This explains a lot. It explains why there "appeared" to be a 16 month gap between the time Oswald defected, and the opening of his 201 file. It also explains why Win Scott's "official" cable to CIA HQ regarding Oswald in Mexico City fails to mention Oswald's visit to the Cuban consulate, an oversight that Scott's close colleague, David Atlee Phillips could not explain to the HSCA. Oddly enough it was Phillips who drafted it. In Scott's memoir, which was finally released to his son Michael, (heavily redacted), after a protracted legal battle, Scott writes of Oswald's visit to Mexico City... "Every piece of information concerning Lee Harvey Oswald was reported immediately after it was received... These reports were made on all his contacts with both the Cuban Consulate and with the Soviets." Scott sent along with the cable two requests 1.) that a "trace" be made on Oswald, 2.) a photograph of Oswald. If the surveillance cameras weren't working during Oswald's visit(s), then why would Scott request his photograph? The response the Mexico City station chief received from Langley purported to be "...the latest headquarters information...", yet it said nothing of Oswald's activities in New Orleans just weeks prior to his arrival in Mexico... activities that both the FBI and CIA were aware of. The photograph, which would have been Phillips' responsibility to compare with the surveillance film, never arrived. And lastly, it would explain the CIA's initial claim to the Warren Commission that they knew nothing of Oswald's trip to Mexico until after the president's assassination. For four years Oswald had been carefully watched by both the FBI and the CIA, yet for some reason, someone, wanted it kept a secret even before the assassination. That man was James Jesus Angleton. Craig, Please clarify your time-line for the CIA monitoring of Lee Harvey Oswald. I'm using Bill Simpich (2014) as the core of my MC CT. Of course the CIA watched everyone at the MC Embassy compound, very closely. The CIA knew about Oswald since 1959. But it was the alleged meeting with KGB assassin Kostikov that drove Angleton crazy. Also the fact that David Atlee Phillips drafted CIA memos about Oswald after the top secret CIA Mole Hunt was already in progress, is strong evidence that Phillips was among the CIA high-command in those days. Whitten wasn't. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 17, 2017 by Paul Trejo clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 We have only one person, Sylvia Duran, who said that the American at the Cuban consulate was the Oswald seen in the news. But she later said that the guy wasn't Oswald. Following are excerpts of Duran's HSCA testimony: CORNWELL - And who do you think that is? TIRADO - Oswald. CORNWELL - Lee Harvey Oswald. Now, many of the pictures in the book are not that clear, of course. When you saw him the first time in the book, you indicated that that looked like him except that as you recalled him, he had either blue or green eyes and blond hair. Correct? TIRADO - Yes. CORNWELL - When you say blond hair, what color is that? Is it very light? TIRADO - Light. Duran has always said the man at the consulate was blond and had green or blue eyes. Azcue said the same about the hair. Oswald, of course had brown hair. His eyes were gray. Though granted, gray eyes can look a little blue when viewed in contrast with skin tone. Duran first made the connection between Oswald, the man killed by Ruby, and the guy she helped at the consulate BEFORE she'd even seen a picture of Oswald! She recognized him by his story... having lived in Russia and married a Russian there: CORNWELL - All right. You had a birthday party planned that night. Is that correct? TIRADO - Yes. CORNWELL - During the day, prior to the birthday party, had you received or heard as part of the news broadcast the name Lee Harvey Oswald? TIRADO - No, only in the afternoon. CORNWELL - In the afternoon, after lunch? TIRADO - Yes. ....CORNWELL - And at that time, had you heard his name? TIRADO - His name? CORNWELL - His name, seen his picture, or both? TIRADO - No, no. The picture was in the newspapers the next day. CORNWELL - Okay. So you only thought that you might have recalled the name. Is that correct? TIRADO - No, not the name, but when they say Lee Harvey Oswald, married to the Russian woman and he live in Russia, and things like that. Duran did say the guy she helped was the Oswald in the newspaper. But that was AFTER she'd already made that connection: CORNWELL - Then, the next morning you saw a newspaper. TIRADO - Yes. CORNWELL - Were you sure at that time that that was the man? TIRADO - Yes. And yet her description of the guy didn't quite match Oswald. Besides the blond hair and blue/green eyes, she said: LOPEZ - For example, let's start at the beginning. Was he tall, short? TIRADO - Short. LOPEZ - Short. Could you stand up for a minute, Gary?(Laughter.) Would you say he was as tall as Gary? TIRADO - Yeah, more or less. LOPEZ - Would you say he was taller than Gary?TIRADO - No, I think just the same. He was about my size. LOPEZ - About your height? TIRADO - Yeah. LOPEZ - Okay. And what's your height? TIRADO - 160. I think 160 or 162. LOPEZ - Was he skinny? TIRADO - Yes. Skinny. So she said the guy was short, about 5 ft 3 inches. Oswald, of course, was about 5 ft 9 inches. Anthony Summers interviewed Silvia Duran on a number of occasions. She told him that it never occurred to her in 1963 that the Dallas Oswald and the Oswald at the Consulate might have been different people. In his book Not in Your Lifetime Summers wrote, "The brief news footage of Oswald being shot had not led her to think the victim was other than the man she had encountered." But after showing Duran a film of a longer interview of Oswald, made in New Orleans in 1959, she said she "was not sure if it was Oswald or not... the man in the film is not like the man I saw here in Mexico City... . The man on this film speaks strongly and carries himself with confidence. The man who came to my office in Mexico City was small and weak and spoke in a trembling voice." That there was no motive for Summers to sway Duran's opinion is demonstrated by the fact that Summers took the position that Oswald was indeed the man who visited the consulate, in spite of what Duran and Azcue said. He based his opinion on the visa application signatures and the photos. I disagree with Summers and agree with David Josephs. I think there clearly was was no Oswald at the Cuban consulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Sawtelle Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) Brendan Consider the following, pg 502 "Me and Lee" Judyth Vary Baker ... "It should be noted that Lee never mentioned going to Cuba again, despite his supposed obsession with the subject. His Cuban transit visa was actually approved less than a month later, which was almost record time, but he ignored it." She doesn't say how LHO found out about the approval. It's possible the Cuban consulate in MC mailed the approval to Oswald's address in NO and the NO post office forwarding his mail to Ruth Paine's house. ?????????? You indicate in a post on page 8 that his application was denied on 10/15 by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. It was "denied" before the assassination which I think is important. So here we have one researcher (she still is a researcher aside from all the other stuff) presenting different information than presented by another researcher, you of course. Note that the time, less than a month, is about the same as the date of the denial of the visa, less than a month after his alleged visit to MC. Maybe there is some truth to her claim. Do we believe Judyth or the Cuban government? Just for argument's sake let's say we believe Judyth. Is it possible the Cuban government played ball with the CIA so that they get to change the approval to denial and the CIA gets to do whatever they want with Oswald's visa application? The denial of the visa appears to support the Cuban position on not working with Oswald to kill Kennedy. There may be some validity to my theory. Edited November 17, 2017 by George Sawtelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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