What bullet trajectory created the back-of-head blowout wound?

[Chris Davidson]

The farther east along the south knoll the better.

Also, a little higher would be more beneficial.

If in the upright position, the top of JFK's head is 52.78", at extant z313 = 39.24", 13.54" lower.

 

[Chris Davidson]

Higher and more eastwardly.

[Roger DeLaria]

I would think a head shot from the south side would direct brain matter/blood over the right rear of the limo and toward the sidewalk, not to the left rear. I could see the throat shot from the south more likely than the head.

[Richard Hocking]

Limo orientation to cardinal directions at time of head shot.

[David Josephs]

34 minutes ago, Roger DeLaria said:

I would think a head shot from the south side would direct brain matter/blood over the right rear of the limo and toward the sidewalk, not to the left rear. I could see the throat shot from the south more likely than the head.

Mr. SPECTER - What was the condition with respect to cleanliness? 
Mr. FRAZIER - There were blood and particles of flesh scattered all over the hood, the windshield, in the front seat and all over the rear floor rugs, the jump seats, and over the rear seat, and down both sides of the side rails or tops of the doors of the car. 

Frasier does not see the limo until DC....  any and all cleaning would have been done between 12:40 and the following day...
He was there late at night and into the next morning....   even in this image, do you see any blood from a right to left shot from the front?  I don't even see smudges...

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Frazier, did you have occasion to examine an automobile which was the vehicle used customarily by the President of the United States in parades? 
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; I did. 
Mr. SPECTER - When did that examination occur? 
Mr. FRAZIER - In the early morning hours of November 23, 1963, at the Secret here in Washington, D.C.

[David Josephs]

Here is an close approximation of the direction JFK was looking ....  it is much further to the south than I think we realize...

While the limo was SW at about 225 degrees as Richard shows, JFK was facing to his left...  the beginning of which you can see in Altgens 6 where he is already looking in the direction of the rear view mirror

[Michael Walton]

Here's my take:

The beveled hole is an outshoot so the entrance had to be either in the temple or forehead.  Dr. Chesser is saying the same thing based on his review of the X rays. I do have a hard time picturing still where the shot came from though.  Even if the line was straighter below, there's still an upward angle to it:

I really don't think the shot could have come from that street storm drain opening. The angle would be too steep and high and I just don't think that the planners would have risked putting someone down there when there were plenty of locations much further away from the street.

But I still do wonder where it came from. The backward movement of the body is a strong indicator that there was a front shot - I made a video showing guys being shot from behind and their heads never recoiled backward (not posting it here due to sensitive members).

I read Sherry Fiester's writings and I'm a little puzzled as to why Pat Speer mentioned her here.  Unless I'm reading the wrong person, she supports the fantastical story that the SS agent fell forward in his car and hitting an AR-15 causing a head shot to Kennedy. I mean...really? No way that could have happened.

[David Josephs]

Nice try...  reminds me of the blind men describing an elephant...   you have just enough info to be dangerous, but not enough to be correct.

The craniotomy that was performed to reflect the scalp away from the wound does not go ACROSS the skull... 
but g~d forbid you do some work and look something up yourself... right

 

So the orientation is such, possibly even turned a bit more clock-wise....  and this image completely hides the right temple area where the entry was....

 

 

The impact popped open that flap...  Boswell or one of the Drs is pulling the unattached scalp back over that hole....   by the way, read carefully thru the brain removal...
it is not possible that a shot or several shots severed all the connections between the brain and the scalp....  not possible. 

HUMES was performing a partial craniotomy prior to 8pm... and simply extended the laceration lines when the time was right...

Maybe read BEST EVIDENCE?  or not enough pictures for you?

To better examine the situation with regard to the skull, at this time, Boswell and I extended the lacerations of the scalp which were at the margins of this wound, down in the direction of both of the President's ears. At that point, we had even a better appreciation of the extensive damage which had been done to the skill by this injury.
We had to do virtually no work with a saw to remove these Portions of the skull, they came apart in our hands very easily

The connection between the skull and the underlying media is thorough... the falx connects every part of the skull to the body in addition to optic nerves, arteries and other nerves... the spinal cord (which had a clean cut thru it despite no bullet coming close....  the image at the bottom illustrates what HUMES said the wounds looked like...

 

 

This is the result of HUMES' "surgery to the top of the head" ....  3 separate channels at three different elevations...

 

 

We found that the right cerebral hemisphere was markedly disrupted. There was a longitudinal laceration of the right hemisphere which was parasagittal in position. By the saggital plane, as you may know, is a plane in the midline which would divide the brain into right and left halves. This laceration was parasagittal. It was situated approximately 2.5 cm. to the right of the midline, and extended from the tip of occipital lobe, which is the posterior portion of the brain, to the tip of the frontal lobe which is the most anterior portion of the brain, and it extended from the top down to the substance of the brain a distance of approximately 5 or 6 cm.
The base of the laceration was situated approximately 4.5 cm. below the vertex in the white matter. By the vertex we mean--the highest point on the skull is referred to as the vertex.
The area in which the greatest loss of brain substance was particularly in the parietal lobe, which is the major portion of the right cerebral hemisphere.
The margins of this laceration at all points were jagged and irregular, with additional lacerations extending in varying directions and for varying distances from the main laceration.
In addition, there was a laceration of the corpus callosum which is a body of fibers which connects the two hemispheres of the brain to each other, which extended from the posterior to the anterior portion of this structure, that is the corpus callosum. Exposed in this laceration were portions of the ventricular system in which the spinal fluid normally is disposed within the brain.
When viewed from above the left cerebral hemisphere was intact. There was engorgement of blood vessels in the meninges covering the brain. We note that the gyri and sulci, which are the convolutions of the brain over the left hemisphere were of normal size and distribution.
Those on the right were too fragmented and distorted for satisfactory description.
When the brain was turned over and viewed from its basular or inferior aspect, there was found a longitudinal laceration of the mid-brain through the floor of the third ventricle, just behind the optic chiasma and the mammillary bodies.
This laceration partially communicates with an oblique 1.5 cm. tear through the left cerebral peduncle. This is a portion of the brain which connects the higher centers of the brain with the spinal cord which is more concerned with reflex actions.
There were irregular superficial lacerations over the basular or inferior aspects of the left temporal and frontal lobes. We interpret that these later contusions were brought about when the disruptive force of the injury pushed that portion of the brain against the relative intact skull.
This has been described as contre-coup injury in that location.
This, then, I believe, Mr. Specter, are the major points with regard to the President's head wound.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by David Josephs

[Michael Walton]

29 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Maybe read BEST EVIDENCE?  or not enough pictures for you?

BEST EVIDENCE?! OMG that mad fairy tale of thrumming helicopters and mad scientists with scalpels at the ready to carve up the body?!

You've got to be kidding. I stopped believing that 30 years ago when I was 18 years old LOL 

[Pat Speer]

A couple of points.

1. Sherry Fiester was not a supporter of the Hickey-did-it theory. She came to believe a bullet fired from the south knoll entered the right front of Kennedy's head and blew out the right rear of his head.

2. Both assistants at the autopsy, O'Connor and Jenkins, claimed the scalp was reflected to the left, and the brain was pulled out the right side. While not as specific as O'Connor and Jenkins. Humes and Boswell said basically the same thing---that the skull on the right side collapsed as they peeled the scalp away from the large wound (which would be back and to the left), and that, in any event no craniotomy (a removal of the skull cap that is standard to most autopsies) was necessary.

There's also this. The "mystery photo" was not taken at an angle. There is a jar on the table in the background that allows us to understand the orientation of the photo. This is shown below.

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Michael Walton said:

BEST EVIDENCE?! OMG that mad fairy tale of thrumming helicopters and mad scientists with scalpels at the ready to carve up the body?!

You've got to be kidding. I stopped believing that 30 years ago when I was 18 years old LOL 

One can disagree with Lifton's conclusions without stooping to such ridicule, MIchael.

This forum, at its best, is a place where people can discuss seemingly bizarre theories with respect for those holding those theories.

David Lifton has provided us with a number of informative posts in the past, and I suspect he will do so in the future. He's been at the middle of this stuff for 50 years now. We can learn from him.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Pat Speer

[Lawrence Schnapf]

presumably a tangential shot? BTW-Roger McCarthy did an experiment for the 1992 ABA mock trial using a frangible bullet and a plastic milk jug containing water. the bullet exploded on impact and did not exit the the plastic jug. 

as far as DVP is concerned, presumably autopsy doctors had to protect their jobs and pensions. financial interest can be a very motivating and strong force especially when under orders. The  HSCA medical team would have had similar career motivations through existing relationships    

[Ron Ecker]

I believe that Jim Tague may have encountered a south knoll shooter. Either a cop or someone dressed as one. He said that a patrolman appeared where he was standing on Main Street and asked him what happened. For some reason he later changed his story.

 

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

6 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Frasier does not see the limo until DC....  any and all cleaning would have been done between 12:40 and the following day...
He was there late at night and into the next morning....   even in this image, do you see any blood from a right to left shot from the front?  I don't even see smudges...

Probably finished the outside first(most visible), put the top on, then worked the inside.

[Chris Davidson]

Picture the truck-bed as the rear seat location for the Connally's and Kennedy's.