How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 5:35 AM, Pamela Brown said:

Paul Trejo said,

"It is one thing to suggest that a living WC witness was a "call girl," and quite another thing to suggest  that she was a KGB spy. and quite something else again to suggest that she was directly involved in the JFK murder."

Mr. Hosty told me that he thought Marina was a sleeper agent.  He also said he didn't think LHO was smart enough to be a spy. So it might be wise to keep an open mind on this.  Just my 2 cents.

Pamela,

I wonder if you'd agree with me on this one point.  

If (and only if) Marina Oswald was telling the complete truth in her WC testimony, then FBI agent James Hosty was evidently over-reaching for some political reason when he publicly suspected Marina Oswald of being a KGB sleeper agent (i.e. he also claimed this in his 1996 book).

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited February 20, 2018 by Paul Trejo

[Pamela Brown]

On 2/20/2018 at 12:30 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Pamela,

I wonder if you'd agree with me on this one point.  

If (and only if) Marina Oswald was telling the complete truth in her WC testimony, then FBI agent James Hosty was evidently over-reaching for some political reason when he publicly suspected Marina Oswald of being a KGB sleeper agent (i.e. he also claimed this in his 1996 book).

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I do not think Marina told the whole truth to the WC.  And in part, for that reason, I consider what Agent Hosty said to be logical from his viewpoint.  He suspected she knew a lot more.  I think he was right.

[Paul Trejo]

14 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

I do not think Marina told the whole truth to the WC.  And in part, for that reason, I consider what Agent Hosty said to be logical from his viewpoint.  He suspected she knew a lot more.  I think he was right.

Pamela,

Thanks for your candor.   I must agree with you, logically, that if Marina Oswald lied under oath to the Warren Commission, then of course FBI agent James Hosty would be justified in suspecting her of dark secrets, up to and including KGB associations.

HOWEVER -- if (and only if) Marina Oswald told the truth to the Warren Commission -- then the shoe is on the other foot.   Then James Hosty would be (and should be) suspected of dark secrets involving a JFK plot.   Would you agree?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Pamela Brown]

23 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Pamela,

Thanks for your candor.   I must agree with you, logically, that if Marina Oswald lied under oath to the Warren Commission, then of course FBI agent James Hosty would be justified in suspecting her of dark secrets, up to and including KGB associations.

HOWEVER -- if (and only if) Marina Oswald told the truth to the Warren Commission -- then the shoe is on the other foot.   Then James Hosty would be (and should be) suspected of dark secrets involving a JFK plot.   Would you agree?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

That is imo a false argument, so, no, I cannot agree.

On the other hand, to ask questions about the motivation of anyone in the FBI involved with the JFK assassination is valid.  I also spoke with SA Robert Frazier, who oversaw the forensic exam of SS100X and I was very concerned with his responses.  So, in my view, none of them gets a free pass.  

Edited February 27, 2018 by Pamela Brown

[Joe Bauer]

Didn't Marina in later investigation hearing testimony ( or personal interviews ) admit she did not always answer her WC questions with complete openness and sincerity? That she sometimes held back or purposely played dumb ( my words not Marina's ) at times?

She said she did this out of fear.

Fear of incriminating herself and fear of what could happen to her and her children if she shared everything she knew.  For instance, while still in Ruth Paine's home the night of her husband's arrest, she secured the Backyard Photo of Lee she had and tried to hand it off to Marguerite Oswald ( Momma, here...you take )  who refused to take it.

Marina knew immediately how incrimination that photo was and kept quiet to the police about it.

According to Marguerite's WC testimony, Marina eventually hid the photo in her shoe. I don't remember if she tore it up or burned it later or what became of it.

But Marina was a survivor and she was smart and she was keeping things from the police and others ( at least the photo of Lee ) even before she was  moved out of Ruth Paine's home.

Marina's knowledge of the Walker incident and Lee's potential involvement also didn't leave her lips until much later.

Does this behavior and further obsfucation and full truth withholding in future interrogation and testimony by Marina mean she was a foreign agent?  Or just a terrified, traumatized young mother doing what she felt she had to do to save herself and her children from scary consequences she had imagined in her mind if she told everything she knew?

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Pamela Brown]

19 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Didn't Marina in later investigation hearing testimony ( or personal interviews ) admit she did not always answer her WC questions with complete openness and sincerity? That she sometimes held back or purposely played dumb ( my words not Marina's ) at times?

She said she did this out of fear.

Fear of incriminating herself and fear of what could happen to her and her children if she shared everything she knew.  For instance, while still in Ruth Paine's home the night of her husband's arrest, she secured the Backyard Photo of Lee she had and tried to hand it off to Marguerite Oswald ( Momma, here...you take )  who refused to take it.

Marina knew immediately how incrimination that photo was and kept quiet to the police about it.

According to Marguerite's WC testimony, Marina eventually hid the photo in her shoe. I don't remember if she tore it up or burned it later or what became of it.

But Marina was a survivor and she was smart and she was keeping things from the police and others ( at least the photo of Lee ) even before she was  moved out of Ruth Paine's home.

Marina's knowledge of the Walker incident and Lee's potential involvement also didn't leave her lips until much later.

Does this behavior and further obsfucation and full truth withholding in future interrogation and testimony by Marina mean she was a foreign agent?  Or just a terrified, traumatized young mother doing what she felt she had to do to save herself and her children from scary consequences she had imagined in her mind if she told everything she knew?

 

Joe,

You are making good points.  For a long time I was comfortable giving Marina the benefit-of-the-doubt, simply because she was so badly treated by our govt after the assassination -- sequestered, fed only what they wanted her to know, etc.  However, I have come to think there is a lot more to her reluctance to tell everything she knows.  I am open to the possibility that she was deliberately put in LHO's path with a hidden agenda.  I think LHO may have figured this out, and this was one reason why he became hostile to her and wanted her to return to the USSR.  I think he realized he had been caught in a trap that she knew about and he did not.  

[David Josephs]

{Sigh}

Thought experiment...

Marina claims that the BYP was the first and only time she ever worked a camera...

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures.
I don't know how to take pictures. He gave me a camera and asked me someone should ask me how to photograph, I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it on a day off that you took the picture?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was on a Sunday.
Mr. RANKIN. How did it occur? Did he come to you and ask you to take the picture?
Mrs. OSWALD. I was hanging up diapers, and he came up to me with the rifle and l was even a little scared, and he gave me the camera and asked me to press a certain button.
Mr. RANKIN. And he was dressed up with a pistol at the same time, was he?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

 

 "only time she ever took photos" - and she can't remember how many she took, and can't remember one of the strangest processes she had to
employ to take not 1 of these, but 3 or even 4?

This is close to what the camera would have shown at the time...   Hold camera at chest height, look down into an upside-down image, keep it perfectly steady so as to remove any blur, take the photo, had the camera back to wind, and do this again, and again, ... and maybe again  ???

 

 

 

HSCA:

Mr. McDONALD. Please tell us what happened? This was at the Neely Street address. 
What happened on this occasion when Lee asked you to take those photographs? 
Mrs. PORTER. Well, first of all, I refused to take picture because I did not know how to operate camera, and he told me, he insist that I will take it, and he said he will show me how, if I just push the button. So I took one picture, I think, and maybe he changed the pose, I don't recall. Maybe I took two pictures, but I was very annoyed by all the incidents. 

Mr. McDONALD. Did you use a tripod at all? 
Mrs. PORTER. Did I use what? 
Mr. McDONALD. A tripod. In other words, was the camera attached to a stand? 
Mrs. PORTER. No. 
Mr. McDONALD. OK. You held it in your hands. 
Mrs. PORTER. Yes. 

DEPOSITIONS OF MARINA OSWALD PORTER
Staff Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations
U.S. House of Representatives Ninety-fifth Congress Second Session March 1979

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 1977
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS, Washington, D.C.

Q. This camera, do you recall whether to take pictures with this camera, you would look down into the viewfinder or whether you would hold the camera up to your eye and look straight ahead?
A. I just recall I think it is straight.
Q. You would put the camera up by your eye?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what color the camera was?
A. I think it was black.
Q. Do you remember anything else about it?
A. Not the name; no. But again, since I am not expert with the camera, that is what I remember, I think?

Edited June 18, 2018 by David Josephs

[Steve Thomas]

21 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

According to Marguerite's WC testimony, Marina eventually hid the photo in her shoe. I don't remember if she tore it up or burned it later or what became of it.

Joe,

 

It's not just you who can't remember how Marina destroyed the photo. Marina couldn't either.

This is from her HSCA testimony:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscamar1.htm

 

Mr. McDONALD. How did you destroy the photograph?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, I had been told I burned it. That is probably--
Mr. McDONALD. Do you remember doing that?
Mrs. PORTER. Very vaguely.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscamar3.htm

 

Mr. FORD - Who brought it to your attention that you had destroyed some of the photos of Lee taken with the rifle and the handgun, and how were they aware that you had destroyed some of the pictures?
Mrs. PORTER - I do not remember who pointed this out to me.
Mr. FORD - You don't recall who?
Mrs. PORTER - No; I don't.

 

Mr. FITHIAN - Do you remember burning any negatives, that is, the film from which the picture is made?
Mrs. PORTER - No.
Mr. FITHIAN - All you remember is burning pictures themselves?
Mrs. PORTER - I vaguely remember destroying the pictures, a picture.
Mr. FITHIAN - What other evidence or material did you destroy in your haste to try to get rid of evidence?
Mrs. PORTER - As far as I know, only that, this picture.

 

Mr. DODD - and in a question to you yesterday, you said that you did not recall whether anyone had told you to destroy them or whether anyone was with you when you destroyed them. I would like to ask you again, Mrs. Porter--it is a very important question--whether or not anyone suggested to you, advised you, assisted you in any way in the destruction of those photographs after the assassination of the President.

Mr. DODD - But you do remember destroying them?
Mrs. PORTER - I do remember destroying, as a fact.
Mr. DODD - Do you remember how you destroyed them?
Mrs. PORTER - I think somebody reminded me that I burned it. That rings the bell.
Mr. DODD - How did you destroy them?
Mrs. PORTER - I do not remember where I was, who was around, absolutely nothing.
Mr. DODD - In your memory can you see yourself destroying them?
Mrs. PORTER - I see only--No, I do not.
Mr. DODD - So you do not know how you destroyed them?
Mrs. PORTER - No.
Mr. DODD - And you have absolutely no recollection?
Mrs. PORTER - Not today, I do not. I am not refusing to answer it, but I do not want to paint picture that it was not existing.
Mr. DODD - Is your recollection that you destroyed these photographs before or after the FBI came to visit you?
Mrs. PORTER - I do not remember. I had many visits.
Mrs. PORTER - The first FBI visit? I do not remember.
Mr. DODD - You do not remember whether you destroyed them before the FBI visit or after the FBI visit?
Mrs. PORTER - I do not remember. It was lots of officials. It was Secret Service and police, FBI all the time around.

 

Mr. FITHIAN - Mrs. Porter, when you destroyed the photographs, did it not occur to you that there would be negatives around somewhere and that you ought to look for those and destroy them too?
Mrs. PORTER - No, it did not occur to me.
Mr. FITHIAN - Has it occurred to you since as to what happened to the negatives, since clearly we have had three different pictures there would have to be three different negatives somewhere? The Warren Commission reports say only one, and we will deal with that at another time, but do you know what happened to any of the negatives?
Mrs. PORTER - I assume that the government has them.
Mr. FITHIAN - I am sorry?
Mrs. PORTER - When they confiscate Lee's belongings, I assume they got the negatives from there.
Mr. FITHIAN - You did not burn the negatives?
Mrs. PORTER - I don't remember, recall, doing that.

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Pamela Brown said:

Joe,

 However, I have come to think there is a lot more to her reluctance to tell everything she knows.  I am open to the possibility that she was deliberately put in LHO's path with a hidden agenda.  I think LHO may have figured this out, and this was one reason why he became hostile to her and wanted her to return to the USSR.  I think he realized he had been caught in a trap that she knew about and he did not.  

Pamela,

 

I hate saying, "me too", but in this case, I'm going to say it.

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

21 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

{Sigh}

Thought experiment...

Marina claims that the BYP was the first and only time she ever worked a camera...

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly.

Q. This camera, do you recall whether to take pictures with this camera, you would look down into the viewfinder or whether you would hold the camera up to your eye and look straight ahead?
A. I just recall I think it is straight.
Q. You would put the camera up by your eye?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what color the camera was?
A. I think it was black.
Q. Do you remember anything else about it?
A. Not the name; no. But again, since I am not expert with the camera, that is what I remember, I think?

David,

 

Just for the record, the photos were allegedly taken on March 31st.

 

As I pointed out in the thread on the possibility of Marina ordering the rifle, once again Marina places the rifle at Neely St. in February, before they even moved there.

What is going on here?

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

21 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

As I pointed out in the thread on the possibility of Marina ordering the rifle, once again Marina places the rifle at Neely St. in February, before they even moved there.

What is going on here?

 

Steve Thomas

Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us approximately when you first met Ruth Paine?
Mrs. OSWALD. Soon after New Years I think it was in January.

Mr. RANKIN. Did Mrs. Paine ever visit you at Elsbeth Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. At Neely, on Neely Street.
Mr. RANKIN. But not at Elsbeth?
Mrs. OSWALD. We moved soon after that acquaintance.

The Oswalds supposedly moved to Neely St. on March 3rd.

 

Mrs. PAINE - I was invited to come to the home of Everett Glover to meet a few friends of his, and I judge that was on the 22d of February looking back at my calendar.

Mrs. PAINE - It was Friday evening.
Mr. JENNER - Friday evening?
Mrs. PAINE - The 22d was Friday

 

If Marina met Ruth Paine on February 22nd, shortly before moving to Neely in March, why did she think it was January?

 

Steve Thomas

 

[David Josephs]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:39 AM, Steve Thomas said:

What is going on here?

The coordinated cover-up of the US coup d'état....

what else?   

"If Marina met Ruth Paine on February 22nd, shortly before moving to Neely in March, why did she think it was January?"

'cause she's making a lot up and was coached for the rest...

Here's another of the reports from the new release...  Marina's bio data is FUBAR.... dental tech? pharmacist? 3 different dates for the birth certificate, all in 1961...  the strange relationship to REGGAB and his statements about her being a prostitute

Marina is not what she seemed.... (the "duh" is silent)

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10020-10052.pdf

Is a report about REGGAB and MARINA...

[Steve Thomas]

59 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10020-10052.pdf

Is a report about REGGAB and MARINA...

David,

 

And I thought Lee's bio was FUBAR'd.

 

Look at these two documents: Reggab knew Marina in Moscow. She was a punch card operator on business machines. He main ambition was to marry a foreigner and leave the Soviet Union, but he believed her opposition to the USSR was faked as a way of getting her out of the country.

Now, if she could only have been a disaffected Marine, we'd have a trifecta.

*smile*

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=36105#relPageId=2&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=36107

 

Steve Thomas

 

[David Josephs]

55 YEARS AND WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHO MARINA OR H/L WERE...

TURN ONE STONE AND 50 MORE APPEAR...