David Josephs Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) On 1/18/2018 at 9:32 PM, Gene Kelly said: David: I don't buy that FBI was simply doing their job. Why on earth would the FBI want Oswald's 9th grade records on the morning after the assassination? Frank Kudlaty, the assistant principle at Stripling Junior HS in Fort Worth, stated that he remembered Lee Oswald attending because he was called by the Principle to head to the school Saturday morning (the 23rd) and hand over records on Oswald to the FBI agents. Lee Oswald was only at Stripling for about six weeks in the fall of 1954. But there are four family statements that he attended Stripling in Fort Worth; three by Robert, and one by Marguerite. Fellow students also recall him as a classmate. Yet the Warren Commission never published these records or information, and the FBI denied knowledge of them (or lost them), yet they appear to have placed an urgent priority in obtaining them. The records vanished from the evidentiary record. It's not my intent to debate Oswald's matriculation at Stripling; it’s the FBI that puzzles me. What do Oswald's 9th grade school records have to do with a murder investigation? However, if one buys into the idea that the family was constantly (and oddly) on the move from 1947-1959 -- making it difficult to trace the whereabouts of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” once he had defected -- then the significance of 2220 Thomas Place (opposite Stripling) takes on a new significance. Perhaps it was a home base (or “safe house”) for the so-called Oswald Project ... one that FBI needed to erase. Now the urgent collection of a just a few weeks’ worth of junior high school records takes on new meaning. Layer in the fact that WC attorney John Ely's notes are notably missing from the National Achieves, and the subsequent exposition of the Jenner memo stating: "Our depositions and examination of records disclose that there are details in Mr. Ely's memoranda which will require material alteration and, in some cases, omission". There’s something fishy going on here, and it’s the FBI that seems out of character. Gene Agreed - which was my point about the other 2 "accused killers" - the interest in every aspect of Oswald's pre-adult life is unique to the JFK case. Look at it this way Gene... the "published" record comprised the histories of 2 men combined into one which is why anything and everything related to the natural born LEE Oswald caused such confusion among those doing his bio. Whole scores of Marines who knew one Oswald yet never knew the other... the 1952 - 1956 years are come of the most interesting and protected data in the case.... Gene - If you'd like, I compiled a large side by side excel sheet comparing the two lives chronologically... PM me your email and I'll send it to you in either pdf or excel - depending on what works for you... it’s the FBI that puzzles me. What do Oswald's 9th grade school records have to do with a murder investigation? Maybe ask ourselves: How would the FBI know to go to Stripling and by default Kudlaty in the first place? Let me add this tangent Gene... on the afternoon of the assassination, Mexican "presidential staff" arrived at the 4 different bus lines in Mexico (Anahuac, Norte, Frontera & Flecha Rojas) and took ONLY the data related to Sept 27 thru Oct 3rd and began the process of creating a bus trip with the help of a highly placed FBI asset in the Immigration section of the Gobernacion... yet as they settled on a story - time and the reality of the situation requires them to drop the initial conclusions despite evidence offered of Oswald's bus travel The idea that the FBI would do such odd and clandestine things with evidence and testimony is supported by Swearingen's book https://www.amazon.com/FBI-Secrets-M-Wesley-Swearingen/dp/0896085015. Despite him also writing a book about the JFK assassination - the thrust is his POV on how the FBI catered to Hoover's needs and falsified a great many things... John Simkin Admin Admin 15,684 posts Gender:Male Report post Posted June 16, 2010 http://www.mmdnewswire.com/m-wesley-swearingen-8908.html To Kill a President: Finally - an Ex-FBI Agent Rips Aside the Veil of Secrecy that Killed JFK by M. Wesley Swearingen seeks to uncover new information about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and identify the groups who conspired to kill him. According to Swearingen, Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone in assassinating Kennedy as was claimed by the FBI, the Warren Commission and other investigating bodies. Instead, he argues that rogue CIA agents acting in concert with the mafia and certain Cuban exiles plotted to kill Kennedy. Swearingen contends that the conspiracy was covered up by the FBI, an effort that continues to this day through the agency's unwillingness to disclose key details about the events surrounding Kennedy's death. "I want to set the record straight," Swearingen says. "The truth is my inspiration. Upholding the Constitution and exposing government corruption is my sole purpose." A 25-year veteran of FBI field work, Swearingen was employed by the bureau in 1963 when Kennedy was shot in Dallas. Citing internal sources and information not previously released to the public, Swearingen claims that Oswald was an FBI informant who was known to government officials prior to the assassination. He argues that the statements and actions of FBI and CIA personnel indicate a cover-up, one that he believes included CIA-trained Cuban exiles and American mobsters. "Names are named, associations are made, reasonable conjectures are served and Swearingen comes across as the real deal," explains a Kirkus Discoveries review. "He virtually dares readers to prove him wrong." About the Author M. Wesley Swearingen is a former FBI agent and the author of FBI Secrets: an Agent's Expose. A U.S. Navy veteran who served during World War II, Swearingen later graduated from Ohio State University and joined the FBI while it was directed by J. Edgar Hoover. Following his retirement from the FBI in 1977, Swearingen was involved in several lawsuits against the bureau related to wrongful imprisonment and civil rights violations. A licensed private investigator, Swearingen has appeared in several documentary films about the FBI and earned the California Attorneys for Criminal Justice's President's Award. We should remember also that a great man CIA were FBI and vice versa...loyalties within these agencies becomes very muddled. Edited February 12, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) The problem with the CT of retired FBI agent Wesley Swearingen, is his obsession over Richard Cain, the dirty cop from Chicago. Since Wesley Swearingen was tracking Richard Cain before the JFK Assassination, and has some evidence linking Richard Cain with the JFK Assassination through his Mafia and Mafia-related CIA assets (who were trying like made to assassinate Fidel Castro for much of 1962-1963), our FBI agent, Wesley Swearingen, constructs his JFK CT on this basis. It's a good basis -- as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far. Yes, Richard Cain was obviously plugged into Mafia figures like Santos Trafficante, Sam Giancana, Carlos Marcello and Johnny Roselli. and these names are common in the JFK CT literature. However -- linking them with the CIA is always a flight of fantasy, and Wesley Swearingen's CT is no exception. Now, if Swearingen had spent a fraction of his time seeking out the Radical Right connections of Richard Cain, I believe he would have solved the JFK Assassination years ago. So -- what does Swearingen have to do with how James Hosty expected to talk with Marina Oswald, who spoke almost no English? BASICALLY NOTHING. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited January 19, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Kelly Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 To get back on point about Steve's thread (thank you to Paul), in reading James Hosty's "Assignment: Oswald", he paints a picture that he never knew that Marina could speak, read or write in English. Yet we know Lee mailed her letters written in English while they were still living in Russia. Hosty apparently never saw this evidence or Robert Oswald’s statements to the FBI that Marina spoke to him numerous times in English. But in the same book, he lays claim to the machinations of Mexico City and the Kostikov canard. Those assertions do not logically fit together for me. Notably, Hosty never spoke to Lee Oswald, and claimed only to be investigating Marina (he later characterized her as "a snake in the grass ... the true spy in the family"). Both Hosty and Ruth Paine come across as disingenuous on several pivotal facts (e.g. the letter to the Russian Embassy, later finger-pointing at Alan Belmont). We can debate whether Hosty was a solid guy, simply caught in the middle of a hurricane, or something more sinister. We can also speculate whether Ruth was an FBI informant. What does ring true is Hosty's assessment of working within the FBI: “With time, my idealism waned, and I accepted the hard fact that law enforcement is basically gray. I also came to understand that one of our jobs was to protect the Bureau’s image at all costs, even if it ran roughshod over individuals or principles.” Hosty was allegedly pressured several times to destroy or alter material evidence in a murder investigation. That is serious stuff (actually a felony) for any law enforcement professional, particularly an FBI agent. The destruction of the note passed to him from Lee Oswald - supposedly annoyed at Hosty for interviewing his wife - is only one example in this case. The rough draft letter to the Russian Embassy is another more explosive example, as is the evidence of Oswald's belongings that Hosty was sent to retrieve at DPD headquarters. That evidence included Oswald’s wallet and notebook, which contained a page with Hosty’s name, car license number, and office location in it. Notably, the FBI transcribed the notebook for the Warren Commission, leaving out the incendiary Hosty page. Today, we know that FBI knew of the Oswald letter to the Soviet Embassy, in which he mentioned "Comrade Kostin", four days before the assassination (on the 18th). Not so surprising, this particular FBI document is missing from the Achieves. There is however a CIA document, which shows 'they' (it would be interesting to know who) called the FBI on the morning of the 23rd to tell them they thought "Kostin" was Kostikov, and that he was associated with Department 13 assassinations. The FBI then when to great lengths to hide the fact that they'd had ample time to act upon this information. They removed these references to "Kostin" from Hosty's file and (going one step further) redacted references to their knowing about Kostin on the 18th from public documents. The cover story offered was that this only came to their attention when the Russian Embassy divulged the letter, after the assassination. In fact, the "Kostin" letter was intercepted by the FBI on the 18th, and Oswald's handwriting on the letter was confirmed on the 23rd. Ostensibly, these measures were undertaken to conceal that the FBI had been reading the Soviet Embassy's mail; however, that seems minor in comparison to the larger concerns about the assassination. The bigger picture formed is one of someone (possibly CIA) setting up the FBI. Hosty's own personnel file was tampered with - he was disciplined twice - and was later found (by him) to contain altered documents making him a fall-guy. Hosty was blacklisted, and denied promotions ... federal crimes constituting harassment and discrimination. James Hosty's surveillance of the Oswalds - ostensibly begun in March 1963, and allegedly a random check of Marina prompted by INS records - therefore becomes a problem for the Agency. Publically, Hoover insisted that the FBI had no previous interaction or knowledge about Oswald ... an obvious fabrication, and what federal prosecutors would consider a material false statement. Hoover was way out on a limb here, taking a big risk (particularly for a federal official), in my opinion. Besides JFK (literally), it appears that someone had also figuratively taken aim at the FBI and Hoover himself. Aside from the question that Steve Thomas raises about Marina's language proficiency (which seems a big red flag), I cannot help but marvel at the lengths the FBI went to protect themselves. Thinking more broadly, if this was an integral part of the plot - force the FBI into a predictable cover-up, or destroy the FBI's reputation (or both) - it is a masterstroke. Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 Mr. HOSTY. Very much so, yes. I became curious then. Shortly thereafter, on the 29th of October, I received another communication from the New Orleans office advising that they had a change of address for Lee and Marina Oswald to 2515 West Fifth Street, Irving, Tex. I then went out on the same date, on the 29th of October 1963, to the neighborhood of 2515 West Fifth Street, made inquiry at 2519 West Fifth Street, made what we call a pretext interview, and talked to a woman, whose name at that time I didn't know, but who I now know to be Mrs. Dorothy Roberts. She further told, me that there was a Russian-born and Russian-speaking woman residing with Mrs. Paine. She told me this woman did not speak any English... This woman further advised me that the wife of this Russian-born woman, who was an American, had visited his wife there on one occasion, but did not reside on West Fifth Street in Irving. (He meant husband, not wife). (I) contacted the Bell Helicopter Co. and the security officer at Bell Helicopter, Mr. Ted Schurman, advised me that Michael Paine was employed by them as a research engineer and he held a security clearance. I then went to St. Marks School in Dallas. I had known from previous experience this school enjoyed a good reputation and I could approach them safely. I talked to Mr. Edward T. Oviatt, the assistant headmaster at St. Marks School. He told me that Mrs. Paine was a satisfactory employee, loyal to the United States, and he considered her to be a stable individual. He stated that Mrs. Paine was employed as a part-time teacher of the Russian language at that school, and he also advised that in a recent conversation with Mrs. Paine she had advised him that she had a Russian-born woman living with her. This woman could not speak any English. As late as the late fall of 1963, knowing that Marina could not speak English, and that Lee did not live there, on November 1st, Hosty went to 2515 W. Fifth St. specifically to talk to Ruth Paine, not Marina.; even though in the Spring of 1963, Hosty was trying to locate Marina "for the purpose of interviewing her". Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Paul Trejo said, "Marina Oswald is an open book -- if only readers choose to believe her. Her WC testimony is self-consistent, without any contradictions, and she never changed any aspect of that account to this very day. The main trouble is, that many readers fail to read her WC testimony carefully enough -- if at all. " Could not disagree more. Marina was keeping lots of secrets. Some of them we still don't know. Garrison wanted to treat her as a hostile witness. Even the WC became exasperated with her inconsistencies. Agent Hosty told me that he thought Marina was a sleeper spy. I have seen nothing to contradict that possibility. Hence, my blog, marinaenigma.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) On 1/16/2018 at 11:35 AM, Steve Thomas said: How did FBI Agent James Hosty expect to communicate with Marina Oswald? Mr. STERN. Did you take over from Agent Fain or in some other way? Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I did not take over directly. When Agent Fain retired directly from the Bureau he had closed the case.(on Lee Harvey Oswald). He had a case which we call a pending inactive case on Mrs. Marina Oswald. This case I did take over. It was in what we call a pending inactive status, that is, nothing was to be done for a period of 6 months. Then at the end of the 6-month period it was then turned into a pending case and I went out and attempted to locate Mrs. Marina Oswald for the purpose of interviewing her. I might add that it is the practice of the FBI to interview immigrants from behind the Iron Curtain on a selective basis, and she was so selected to be one of these persons to be interviewed. Mr. STERN. When was this? Mr. HOSTY. This was March 4, 1963, when I began my inquiry as to her present whereabouts. I determined on March 4, 1963, through the Immigration and Naturalization Service records that she had moved from Fort Worth to the Dallas area. She was living on a street called Elsbeth Street in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. On March 11, 1963, I made inquiry at this Elsbeth address, Mr. STERN. You say that you were considering interviewing Marina Oswald? Mr. HOSTY. Right.Mr. STERN. Did you know that she did not speak English? Mr. HOSTY. Yes; I knew that. In fact, I determined that when I did the neighborhood check on the 3d of March. Mrs. Tobias (the landlady at Elsbeth) told me that she didn't speak a word of English and couldn't communicate with anybody except her husband who spoke Russian. So, Hosty was doing a neighborhood check on March 3rd, before he began his inquiry on March 4th to learn her present whereabouts and learned from INS that the Oswalds had moved to Elsbeth. He talked to Mrs. Tobias on March 11th and found out that they had moved. Mrs. Tobias told him that Marina couldn't speak English. What "neighborhood" was Hosty checking on March 3rd? And knowing that she didn't speak English, how did Hosty think he was going to be able to talk to her? Mr. HOSTY. (On the) 1st of November. I worked in the Fort Worth area in the morning and on my way back from the Fort Worth area at approximately 2:30 p.m., I stopped at the residence of Mrs. Ruth Paine, 2515 West Fifth Street, Guess who else lived in the Fort Worth area? The White Russian Community of George DeMohrenschildt and George Bouhe and Max Clark, etc. Were they a conduit of information for James Hosty? They had known that the Oswalds were living on Elsbeth as far back as November of 1962. George Bouhe had files on everybody. Steve Thomas Interesting, Steve. George deM is one of the remaining mysteries of the assassination, imo. However, if George deM was giving Hosty information, why didn't he tell him that the Oswalds left for NOLA after the attempt on Gen. Walker? Hosty seemed to be clueless about that... Edited January 21, 2018 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Pamela Brown said: Interesting, Steve. George deM is one of the remaining mysteries of the assassination, imo. However, if George deM was giving Hosty information, why didn't he tell him that the Oswalds left for NOLA after the attempt on Gen. Walker? Hosty seemed to be clueless about that... Pamela, Even more than George Dehmorenschildt, I would look to George Bouhe and Max Clark. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/tobias.htm Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, the 3d of November--here's the books when you get ready for them--he moved in November 3, 1962. Mr. JENNER. He moved in the 3d of November 1962? Mrs. TOBIAS. Now, he was in 604--602 and 604--just like this is 604 over here and 602 is down here and there is one down and one up. Mr. Oswald lived in 604 and we live over here in 602 and it faces Elsbeth. FBI interview of George Bouhe: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672&relPageId=400&search=Bouhe On November 28, 1963 Bouhe was interviewed by SA John Flanagan about any possible relationship between Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald. In the course of the interview, Bouhe "produced a card on which he kept addresses and this card bore the notation dated November 1, 1963, 602 Elsbeth..." “Following his residence at the YMCA, he said Oswald secured a room in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas, but he could not recall this address, nor did he have a record of it in his papers. At this point Mr. Bouhe produced a card on which he kept addresses.” (I believe that “1963” was a misprint. It should have been “1962”). WC testimony of George Bouhe March 23, 1964 http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bouhe.htm Mr. BOUHE - And on my card I have a date of November the 2d, 1962, that he found this apartment and moved there, but that I heard from others because by that time I lost all communication with them; didn't talk to him; didn't ask him anything, and he didn't call me. Mr. LIEBELER - That would have been in November 1962, would it not, Mr. Bouhe, that he moved to the apartment you are speaking of? Mr. BOUHE - Yes; and I would say that is pretty good because I think the FBI agent told me they proved that, or something. How could George Bouhe know on November 1st or 2nd that Oswald was living in an apartment that he didn't rent until November 3rd? http://jfkassassinat...ny/voshin_i.htm Mr. VOSHININ - Yeah - and as far as I know Mr. Bouhe even kept files and still keeps files on everybody - when anybody was born, baptized, or whatever happened to everybody. Mr. JENNER - I see. Mr. VOSHININ - He even showed me a file and he said, "Say, you came here, I immediately opened a file on you." I say, "What for?" And he say, "Well, you know, I forget things - so I keep a file on everybody." https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=129757&search=Alexander_Kleinlerer#relPageId=9&tab=page On December 3, 1968 the FBI interviewed a George Bloodworth, who was a Warrant Officer Candidate in the U.S. Army Helicopter School in Mineral Wells, Texas. He met George Bouhe in the apartment of Alexander Kleinlerer. Bloodworth had formerly been in the Marines and had been stationed at the U.S. Embassy in Tunisia. He was very security conscious. Kleinlerer left the apartment to buy some food at a delicatessan, and Bloodworth and Bouhe got to talking. While they were talking, Bloodworth got the impresion that Bouhe was “one of us”, meaning an Army Intelligence Agent. Bouhe supposedly lost contact with Oswald when he moved to Elsbeth in November of 1962. I think Oswald's move to Neely took a lot of people by surprise. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Pamela Brown said: Interesting, Steve. George deM is one of the remaining mysteries of the assassination, imo. However, if George deM was giving Hosty information, why didn't he tell him that the Oswalds left for NOLA after the attempt on Gen. Walker? Hosty seemed to be clueless about that... Pamela, Dick Russell's book, The Man Who Knew Too Much (1993) has an answer for this question. Dick Russell says he interviewed WC witness, Natasha Voshinin, and here is her story, in paraphrase: George DeMohrenschildt visited her and her husband Igor on Easter Sunday, April 14, 1963. It was very early in the morning, and George was worried. He said that at 10pm the night before, he and Jeanne had visited the Oswalds, getting the Oswalds out of bed on the pretext of an Easter visit. They were worried about the TV and radio news reports since Wednesday, April 10, 1963, about the attempted assassination of General Walker at his Dallas home. George and Jeanne suspected their friend, Lee Harvey Oswald. So, while George kept Oswald occupied on the balcony, Jeanne asked Marina for a tour of their apartment. During that tour she found a high-powered rifle with a scope on it. Marina made some lame excuse about it, and George asked Lee point blank if he shot at General Walker. Lee fell silent with a worried look on his face. Marina also fell silent. Then George burst out laughing, and everybody started laughing, and the DeMohrenschildt's said goodnight. George told Natasha early the next morning that he and Jeanne felt certain that Oswald was Walker's shooter. What should he do? Natasha and Igor told George to "immediately call the FBI." George objected, "No! I could never turn in my friends!" Then George left. At the moment George left, Natasha Voshinin "immedately called the FBI" and told them everything she had heard from George. She gave Dick Russell no further details. So, that is the plausible way that the FBI (and General Walker) found out about Lee Harvey Oswald only days after the Walker shooting. (It seems to me that George didn't want to turn Oswald in, but he didn't mind if Natasha Voshinin turned him in!) By the way, her story matches some of the detail in this letter from General Walker to Senator Frank Church in 1975: http://www.pet880.com/images/19750623_EAW_to_Frank_Church.pdf Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited January 21, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Pamela Brown said: ...Marina was keeping lots of secrets. Some of them we still don't know. .Even the WC became exasperated with her inconsistencies... Pamela, Please name one place in the WC volumes that illustrates where "the WC became exasperated with" Marina Oswald's alleged "inconsistencies." Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited January 21, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 3:16 PM, Steve Thomas said: Mr. HOSTY. Very much so, yes. I became curious then. Shortly thereafter, on the 29th of October, I received another communication from the New Orleans office advising that they had a change of address for Lee and Marina Oswald to 2515 West Fifth Street, Irving, Texas. I then went out on the same date, on the 29th of October 1963, to the neighborhood of 2515 West Fifth Street, made inquiry at 2519 West Fifth Street, made what we call a pretext interview, and talked to a woman, whose name at that time I didn't know, but who I now know to be Mrs. Dorothy Roberts. She further told, me that there was a Russian-born and Russian-speaking woman residing with Mrs. Paine. She told me this woman did not speak any English... This woman further advised me that the wife of this Russian-born woman, who was an American, had visited his wife there on one occasion, but did not reside on West Fifth Street in Irving. (He meant husband, not wife). (I) contacted the Bell Helicopter Co. and the security officer at Bell Helicopter, Mr. Ted Schurman, advised me that Michael Paine was employed by them as a research engineer and he held a security clearance. I then went to St. Marks School in Dallas. I had known from previous experience this school enjoyed a good reputation and I could approach them safely. I talked to Mr. Edward T. Oviatt, the assistant headmaster at St. Marks School. He told me that Mrs. Paine was a satisfactory employee, loyal to the United States, and he considered her to be a stable individual. He stated that Mrs. Paine was employed as a part-time teacher of the Russian language at that school, and he also advised that in a recent conversation with Mrs. Paine she had advised him that she had a Russian-born woman living with her. This woman could not speak any English. As late as the late fall of 1963, knowing that Marina could not speak English, and that Lee did not live there, on November 1st, Hosty went to 2515 W. Fifth St. specifically to talk to Ruth Paine, not Marina.; even though in the Spring of 1963, Hosty was trying to locate Marina "for the purpose of interviewing her". Steve Thomas Steve, I think some congratulations are in order, because you've identified a significant self-contradiction in the WC testimony of FBI agent James Hosty with regard to Marina Oswald. I also note that somebody "speaking English" is a very relative term. Marguerite claimed that Marina "spoke English very well," in phrases like "Yes, mama, baby eat," and "No, mama, no blouse." Marguerite also claimed that she could "interpret" Marina's Russian quite well. Of course, Marguerite was also trying to argue her case that Marina and baby June should live with her, and share her money with Marguerite -- because after all, Marguerite had received far less money from the sympathetic American public. Others have claimed that Marina could speak English -- but never offered details about the extent. Could she say, "Yes," "No," "Please," "Thank you," "Hello" and"Goodbye" like many two year students of high-school Spanish can? Or could she carry on a conversation like you and me? It's a relative question. Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) On 1/20/2018 at 11:49 AM, Gene Kelly said: ...Both Hosty and Ruth Paine come across as disingenuous on several pivotal facts (e.g. the letter to the Russian Embassy...) ...We can also speculate whether Ruth was an FBI informant... Gene Gene, Please explain why you believe that the "Soviet Embassy Letter" of November 12, 1963, was important in the context of FBI James Hosty, Ruth Paine and the JFK Assassination. What scenario seems plausible to you, in which Ruth Paine would be "an FBI informant"? Certainly Ruth Paine admits in her copious WC testimony that when FBI agent James Hosty visited her -- twice -- in early November, 1963, he claimed he was interested in Marina Oswald -- however he really pressed Ruth Paine for information about Lee Harvey Oswald -- and she willingly answered all his questions, to the best of her knowledge. Yet, you mean something more sinister, right -- like Ruth being a "paid FBI Informant" for many years, right? With a long-term relationship with James Hosty, right? Yet Ruth Paine claims that she never laid eyes on James Hosty before that. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited January 22, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 5:26 PM, Paul Trejo said: Pamela, Please name one place in the WC volumes that illustrates where "the WC became exasperated with" Marina Oswald's alleged "inconsistencies." Regards, --Paul Trejo Not the WC H+E, itself. Transcripts from the executive sessions give an indication of their concern over Marina's inconsistencies and the fact that she claimed LHO had not been to MC when there was ample proof he had, backyard pictures, etc...https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Warren_Commission_Executive_Session_of_27_Jan_1964 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Two questions: Jeanne DeM asks Marina to show her around her and Lee's apartment and after opening a closet door she sees a high powered rifle with a scope? Marina admits it's Lee's? Paul, is this the same rifle you claim Oswald used on Walker? If so, how did non-driving, no car owning Oswald get the rifle back home to this apartment from Walker's residence? Obviously not on any bus night or day. Obviously not by walking home with it during the day. Did he simply run home with this in the dark cover of night? How far away was Walker's residence from Lee's? Simple logical question whose answer may say something about driving help? Also, we all remember the first personal TV interview of Marina. "Marina, what do you do all day?" What do others here feel about her English skills in that interview? It was just months after 11,22,1963. I thought she understood the questions and answered these in a broken but not totally bad level of English. Did she take English classes after 11,22,1963 to do this well? And she gave much thought to the questions, taking time to answer them. From that interview, I sensed she was very sharp, intelligent and controlling of her emotions and knew much more about Lee and his activities in NOLA and in Dallas than she ever truly let on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 3:53 PM, Paul Trejo said: Please explain why you believe that the "Soviet Embassy Letter" of November 12, 1963, was important in the context of FBI James Hosty, Ruth Paine and the JFK Assassination. Are you asking Gene to explain the context in regards to the letter, JFK, Ruth Paine and the FBI in Nov. 1963 because you don't know how they are connected? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) On 2018-01-21 at 3:51 AM, Steve Thomas said: On December 3, 1968 the FBI interviewed a George Bloodworth, who was a Warrant Officer Candidate in the U.S. Army Helicopter School in Mineral Wells, Texas. He met George Bouhe in the apartment of Alexander Kleinlerer. Bloodworth had formerly been in the Marines and had been stationed at the U.S. Embassy in Tunisia. He was very security conscious. Kleinlerer left the apartment to buy some food at a delicatessan, and Bloodworth and Bouhe got to talking. While they were talking, Bloodworth got the impresion that Bouhe was “one of us”, meaning an Army Intelligence Agent. Alexander Kleinerer featured in the "What evidence is there that Lee Harvey Oswald beat Marina?" thread from last year. Kleinerer was the only witness to claim to have personally viewed Oswald physically abuse Marina. Kleinerer also appears in a few FBI memos which are concerned with possible Jack Ruby associations with Import/Export businesses. Notable in those memos was a mis-spelling of Kleinerer's name as "Kleinlerer" - which is the exact same mis-spelling as appears here in 1968. Actually, now relooking at the paperwork, it seems that the surname "Kleinlerer" is correct."Kleinlerer" is used for his affidavit to the Warren Commission. "Kleinerer" is mistakenly spelled in several testimonies of White Russians and in at least one FBI memorandum. Still, this info from 1968 confirms him as part of the Dallas area White Russian/intelligence milieu, and imho his claim to have witnessed a coercive situation between Lee and Marina is suspect. Edited January 23, 2018 by Jeff Carter factual correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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