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Warren Commission decides NOT to show DURAN Oswald's app she processed


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2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Tommy, if you're idea of fact checking is what you just dumped out about Angleton and Nosenko, then I think most of us would observe that you are not out to check facts, what you are about is propagating a wild theory in the JFK case which somehow includes a Russian translator as part of the plot.

If you were about facts, then you would have informed the reader about Bagley's role in the Nosenko affair which is easily available in Mangold's book.

Sorry, but I won't research that one for you.

James,

I've been dumping out a lot of stuff about JJA and Nosenko recently.

"Russian translator"?

With all due respect, which of my dumps are you referring to? (I'm 68.5 years old and my already feeble mind is getting feebler by the minute).

BTW, are you accusing me of something?

Care to be more specific?

Have you already read Bagley's book and PDF?  (I highly recommend it, you know.)

--  Tommy. :sun

PS 

Mangold's book, "COLD WARRIOR" ? ?

LOL!

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Thanks, DJ, for posting more evidence about this sordid affair.  The order from Win Scott’s office to re-arrest and torture Sylvia Duran shows not only how deeply at least some top CIA officials wanted to shape the whole Mexico City/LHO charade, but also how totally they could control DFS and, by extension, the entire Mexican government, at least in regards to this crime. With this in mind, how can we possibly trust any evidence from DFS and other Mexican authorities, as DJ demonstrated in his recent MC series.

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On 1/18/2018 at 6:31 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

How 'bout RX/ZIM?  

Are we making any progress on that?

RX-ZIM.jpg

Jim,

OMG, you're reminding me of Oleg Penkovsky's and Grenville Wynne's mysterious "ZEPP" !

A nonexistent "crypto" which so confounded the KGB that it helped to confirm for Tennent H. Bagley (and others) that the Soviets had a mole way back in May, 1961.  (Which we never uncovered, BTW.)

Just for giggles, google:

zepp penkovsky ...


--Tommy  :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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11 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Both can be found on the crypt list at the Mary Ferrell Foundation

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=LITAMIL-9

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=LITAMIL-7

Thanks to the work of Simpich, Newman and others we have been making extensive additions to the crypt list

Larry, thanks for  being kind in posting this.

What I'm  not  getting  here is why the big secrecy and mystery by Josephs and DiEugenio about this? About whiting out the cryptos and not revealing them? Both of them had have known these were on the MF site.

Also last I  checked  this was the Education forum. Why all of the "we know now look it up yourself" arrogance? You never see this copping of attitude over at the Greg Parker forum.

As for the MC narrative  haven't  we been through  this before? So two people  down there with cryptos say they never saw LHO down there. Great. But it hardly seems like anything new.

 

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David Josephs said:

Warren Commission decides NOT to show DURAN Oswald's app she processed.

But Silvia Duran did look at that very same visa application when she was interviewed by the HSCA in 1978, and she identified not only the photo as being a picture of the same man (Oswald) she saw at the Cuban Consulate/Embassy in September of 1963, but she also identified the handwriting as her own writing in the upper-right part of the application (the handwritten numbers "779")....

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0422b.htm

CORNWELL - This is a photograph of what would appear to be a visa application. Does it appear to be basically the type of visa application that we have been speaking about?
TIRADO (DURAN) - Yes. The numbers, I think they're mine.
CORNWELL - The numbers in the upper right-hand corner which are handwritten?
TIRADO - I think so.
CORNWELL - Those appear to you to be in your handwriting?
TIRADO - Yeah, because when I file I write in the number.

[...]

CORNWELL - I have another photograph of just the upper left-hand corner of the same document, which we'll mark as Exhibit 3 on the back, and ask you if, to the best of your recollection, that is a photograph of the man whom you saw on or about the 27th of September?
TIRADO - Yes.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscadurn.htm

Edited by David Von Pein
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14 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Jim,

OMG, you're reminding me of Penkovsky's and Wynne's mysterious "ZEPP" !

An imaginary "crypto" which KGB's confusion about proved to Tennent H. Bagley and others that the Soviets had a spy or mole back in May, 1961, which we never uncovered.

Just for giggles, google *zepp penkovsky* .


--Tommy  :sun


I'm bumping my edited comment to Jim Hargrove's thought-provoking post, above, about the "crypto" RX/ZIM.

--  Tommy  :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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5 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Davey is the greatest cherry picker in the history of the case.

He completely ignores the dialogue with Ed Lopez which took place after this walk thought with Cornwell, which Josephs quoted earlier.  And pretty much blows up the whole Cornwell part.

But that is Davey for you.

The Lopez/Duran quotes are actually very nice for an "LNer" like myself....because that exchange between Lopez and Duran only serves to demonstrate once more in this case how people are really bad at estimating the weight of OTHER PEOPLE they are looking at. Duran seems to think that the general build and size of both "skinny" Oswald (Duran's quote) and the 199-pound Edwin Lopez were the same build. (Think "Marrion Baker" and "Howard Brennan", with regard to their individual TOO HEAVY estimates of Oswald's weight.)

And Jimmy will no doubt just ignore the fact that Silvia Duran said that it was her handwriting on the Cuban visa application. And Jim will also totally ignore the fact that Duran also identified the picture on the application---a picture of OSWALD, of course---as being the same man she saw in Mexico City in September 1963.

But that is Jimmy for you.

 

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Mike:

1.) Its one thing to go ahead and list a true name at MFF amid literally tons of material.  Its another to do it in a forum like this which is much easier to monitor.

2.) As per your last comment, if the evidentiary significance of this escapes you then I don't know how to explain it.

But let me try:  What David Josephs is doing here is, I believe, a paradigm shift with Mexico City. When all but one  person says they did not see LHO at the Cuban embassy, and when the photo index shows he was not at either embassy, and the tapes are in someone else's voice, then the indications are that he was probably impersonated.

But what David is going with is I think something even bigger than that.  Something that will sweep aside everything before it--including Scott's "barium meal" thing.

Dan Hardway has hinted at it in his latest interviews.  The giveaway is what David has turned up in New Orleans with the visa application and also with the filing of the visa in the  Duran desk.

See, from the declassified memos, its clear that the CIA in MC was going nuts after the assassination, and for one reason.  They could find no evidence that Oswald was in MC, and believe me, they tried.  For whatever reason, the FBI did not enter the chase until February.  Something which Hoover later regretted since he wrote in the margin of a memo six weeks later that the CIA had given them a snow job on Oswald in Mexico City.  So what happened is that the CIA called in Echeverria at Interior and he ran the MC inquiry.  And as David shows, with abundant evidence, since he was inside the PRI and would be nominated for president, he was allowed to literally create, out of whole cloth, a completely ersatz trail of evidence that the FBI was shocked at when they uncovered it in detail in February.  In the newly declassified Slawson trip report its revealed that Echeveria just dissed the WC when they came down.  And that, to my surprise, Win Scott was in on this cover up about there being no photos. There is no way around this: Scott simply lied his head off to Slawson and Coleman about why they could not produce a picture of Oswald at either embassy.  This is how deep the cover up was about Oswald 's absence.  And in my view, this is why Ruth Paine and later PJM did what they did  later.  

With what David has produced, he ties things that happened as late as August 1964 into the Echeverria cover up.  BTW,  how many books is Echeverria mentioned in up to now?  But with these new documents he will not be able to be ignored later. 

 

Edited by James DiEugenio
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54 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

The Lopez/Duran quotes are actually very nice for an "LNer" like myself....because that exchange between Lopez and Duran only serves to demonstrate once more in this case how people are really bad at estimating the weight of OTHER PEOPLE they are looking at. Duran seems to think that the general build and size of both "skinny" Oswald (Duran's quote) and the 199-pound Edwin Lopez were the same build. (Think "Marrion Baker" and "Howard Brennan", with regard to their individual TOO HEAVY estimates of Oswald's weight.)

And Jimmy will no doubt just ignore the fact that Silvia Duran said that it was her handwriting on the Cuban visa application. And Jim will also totally ignore the fact that Duran also identified the picture on the application---a picture of OSWALD, of course---as being the same man she saw in Mexico City in September 1963.

But that is Jimmy for you.

 

 

Going from memory here, but when I watched Ed Lopez walk to the witness chair to give "testimony" in a videotaped mock trial (or some such thing), I never would have guessed he weighed THAT much. 

Did he lose a lot of weight between 1978 and the mock trial?  Did the court reporter in '78 make a mistake?

--  Tommy  :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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