David Josephs Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 8:41 AM, James DiEugenio said: David: That's something I was not aware of: Holmes never brought the stub or the booklet to his interviews? And the WC never asked him for either? Was it not Belin who was in charge of this aspect? Like the Baker Affidavit... it was simply ignored. And once the PMO was in their possession - real or not; authentic or not didn't matter.... Holmes is performing all this SATURDAY MORNING... yet the information relayed to SAIC Gaiglein who is with Harold Marks and other "employees" of the Facility to retrieve the PMO. It's not until 8:30 PM that the process of finding the original - or a copy - even begins... yet by noon that morning, Holmes claims he located the STUB still attached to the BOOK by using the TOTAL AMOUNT of the PMO as determined by Homes' bad addition...(Note: shipping was $1.50 for a total of $19.95 + $1.50 = $21.45... Holmes is even offering the wrong shipping amount yet still arrives at the correct total?) Between noon and 10pm... nothing appears to have been happening related to the PMO... or was it? supposedly, it was ultimately produced at a Postal Center in VA "Further Chicago investigation shows that the money order involved has been recovered by Postal Inspec- tos in Kansas City and forwarded the Assistant Chief's Office of this Service" (2nd paragraph Synposis) "Holmes' notes from 11-22" “Now you thumb through those,” I said, “and when you come to Klein’s Sporting Goods, let’s see what it looks like.” It wasn’t but a couple of minutes that one of the girls hollered, “Here it is!” So I looked at it and down at the bottom of the ad it said that that particular rifle was such and such amount. But if it could not be carried on a person, such as a pistol, like a shotgun or a rifle, then it was $1.25 or $1.37 extra. Shipping charges were also added, so I added those together, took that figure and called around to all the different stations and the main office where these crews were checking stubs. It wasn’t ten minutes that they hollered, “Eureka!” They had the stub! (this would have been the far right stub with the # , $amount , and date stamp.)I called it in immediately to the chief on the open line to Washington and said, “I’ve got the money order number that Oswald used to buy this gun, and according to the records up there, they had shipped it to this box that he had rented at the main office in Dallas at that time, which he later closed and opened another at the Terminal Annex because it was closer to the School Book Depository.” WCR Testimony:Mr. HOLMES. So in about an hour Postal Inspector McGee of Chicago called back then and said that the correct amount was $21.95---$21.45 excuse me, and that the shipping---they had received this money order on March the 13th, whereas I had been looking for March 20. So then I passed the information to the men who were looking for this money order stub to show which would designate, which would show the number of the money order, and that is the only way you could find one. I relayed this information to them and told them to start on the 13th because he could have bought it that morning and that he could have gotten it by airmail that afternoon, so they began to search and within 10 minutes they called back and said they had a money order in that amount issued on, I don't know that I show, but it was that money order in an amount issued at the main post office, which is the same place as this post office box was at that time, box 2915 and the money order had been issued early on the morning of March the 12th, 1963. Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, you found this postal money order and then what did you do? Mr. HOLMES. I gave that information to my boss by telephone. He called Washington immediately. Of course this information included the money order number Mr. BELIN. Anything else now about this money order? Do you have a record of the number of the money order? Mr. HOLMES. No; I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 David, this information is confusing. Holmes gave "this information" to his boss. His boss called Washington immediately. This information included the money order number. Yet he didn't have a record of the number? Is he maybe lying somewhere in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: Is he maybe lying somewhere in this? ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 While yes the Chicago Secret Service write that the alleged Hidell money order was found in Kansas City, they are mistaken and seem to have associated the confirmation a money order had been located with their knowledge the search for the money order was taking place in Kansas City. The alleged money order was instead found in Washington. But the Chicago report does confirm that most everyone thought it would be located in Kansas City. John Armstrong was right to point that out. Here is the report by the Secret Service in Washington, which covers that side of the story. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=118&tab=page Curiously, Holmes is not mentioned. The liaison in Texas, who supplied the money order information and requested the search, is said to be Postal Inspector Stevens from the Fort Worth Postal Inspection Service. Was Holmes' “boss” the inspector in Fort Worth, not in Washington? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) On 1/23/2018 at 11:24 AM, Jeff Carter said: While yes the Chicago Secret Service write that the alleged Hidell money order was found in Kansas City, they are mistaken and seem to have associated the confirmation a money order had been located with their knowledge the search for the money order was taking place in Kansas City. The alleged money order was instead found in Washington. But the Chicago report does confirm that most everyone thought it would be located in Kansas City. John Armstrong was right to point that out. Here is the report by the Secret Service in Washington, which covers that side of the story. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=118&tab=page Curiously, Holmes is not mentioned. The liaison in Texas, who supplied the money order information and requested the search, is said to be Postal Inspector Stevens from the Fort Worth Postal Inspection Service. Was Holmes' “boss” the inspector in Fort Worth, not in Washington? Holmes was not involved at all with the PMO... his story of the finding of the stub has never been challenged or corroborated by anyone or anything. I took the report Jeff links to - as well as all the other source material - and compiled a timeline of the FBI/SS/USPS reports Since I have been so close to it for so long, please feel free to identify any conflicts within this timeline... I disagree with you Jeff about the mentioning of it in Kansas being a mistake... I color coded things to try and keep them straight... DJ Edited February 12, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 10:13 AM, Lance Payette said: Something like Harvey & Lee, which I know you do not support, starts with a cockamamie theory, ignores the mountains of contradictory evidence, and then plays an endless game of "Well, what about this ... what about this ... what about this?" To see what Lance Payette hopes you don't see, click on the link below.... Harvey and Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 A useful question, I hope. Why didn't Tippit draw his gun when exiting the car? We have no accounts saying that he did. If his revolver had been found out of its holster...we might not have more certainty but we'd certainly have more to discuss. Less cynically - drawing his gun in caution might have saved Tippit's life. So, if he's not accosting someone, or some pair, with gun drawn, why is he getting out of his car? Did he think his badge and height/size alone would be intimidating, on the day of an assassination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, David Andrews said: A useful question, I hope. Why didn't Tippit draw his gun when exiting the car? We have no accounts saying that he did. If his revolver had been found out of its holster...we might not have more certainty but we'd certainly have more to discuss. Less cynically - drawing his gun in caution might have saved Tippit's life. So, if he's not accosting someone, or some pair, with gun drawn, why is he getting out of his car? Did he think his badge and height/size alone would be intimidating, on the day of an assassination? David... I was reading some things about Tippit where it was relayed that he did not look people in the eyes when speaking or approaching them.... Obviously I don't know the full extent of Tippit's background (like Greer's tendency to brake in an emergency rather than accelerate) yet I am sure I am making assumptions about behavior without understanding the motivations or reasons. Another possibility is that Tippit was expecting this person... was in on it with him and was part of some escape plan which turned against him... The shirt on the hanger in the back of Tippit's car is highly suggestive of a change and sitting in a cop car looking normal from the waist up... do we have any more info on that shirt? was it Tippit's? There simply would be no reason for him to be suspicious in Oak Cliff, or even sent to Oak Cliff... add also his behavior in those fateful minutes suggests a simple man following his instructions within a bigger plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Tippit, from witness accounts, was agitated at the Tip-Top Record Store, and when pulling over the Andrews car. Under the tensions and dangers of the day he might reasonably have lost his shyness. Why not draw his gun? If he wanted someone to get in and put on the uniform, or to give him info on Oswald's whereabouts - well, it was period custom for cops to pull iron on their own authority. No supervisor would call him on it, that day of all days. Why get out of the car at all? What if he was drawn on first, and made to get out of the car? Not drawing his gun leaves a lot of possibilities open. Another possibility is that he knew the persons(s) he was dealing with, and was convinced that he could get what he wanted out of them without going so far as to draw on them. And then there's the Westbrook-Croy scenario. Edited January 24, 2018 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger DeLaria Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I would think he didn't draw his gun because he knew the person(s) he stopped to talk with. Thst suggests either some collusion, or at least familiarity. Then unwitting, gets thrown under the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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