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When Jack grabbed his throat, Jackie did not recoil but moved in to have a closer look and was within the 'kissing zone'. So how did the gunman miss hitting Jackie when the shot that blew part of Jack's brains out - blew them all over her? Luck? 

 

 

Edited by Mervyn Hagger
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Mervyn,

I think a lot of us have pondered that question, at least fleetingly, over the past half-century.   I know I have.

The best explanation I have is that the shooters didn't really care that much -- as long as JFK was killed dead.

But luck wasn't the only factor.   The shooters were selected carefully from among the best shooters in Texas; right there in Dallas.

How many members of the Dallas Police and Sheriff's office were former military sharpshooters?

How many members of the Dallas Police and Sheriff's office were currently members of the Radical Right in Dallas politics?

With over 50 years of concentration on this or that CIA agent, the bulk of JFK CT literature has evaded the elephant in the room -- the Dallas Police.   Perhaps only Walt Brown (1995) and Jeff Caufield (2015) have given it any observation.   Yet even these two giants did not have the time to get down to the Warren Commission testimony of these many Dallas officials.

Anyway -- I think that highly trained, sharpshooter VOLUNTEERS (unpaid) were used in the JFK Assassination.  I also believe that to ensure success, one shooter was hidden in the storm drain on Elm Street.

Finally, I am inclined to suspect that one (and only one) Secret Service member from Washington DC, namely, the JFK limo driver, was also a secret member of the Radical Right wing.   That would cinch it.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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Whoever fired that last shot into JFK's head ( without harming Jackie ) was a marksmen of the highest order.  

If Jackie had been slaughtered along with and in the same brutal way as her husband, I truly think the public would have been outraged, upset and angry on an almost indescribable level...to the point they may have gone into the streets.

 

Edited by Joe Bauer
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21 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

When Jack grabbed his throat, Jackie did not recoil but moved in to have a closer look and was within the 'kissing zone'. So how did the gunman miss hitting Jackie when the shot that blew part of Jack's brains out - blew them all over her? Luck? 

jfk-head shot.jpg

jfk-head shot-2.jpg

Here in this documentary, you can listen a very interesting comment about your question made during a conversation between LBJ and a WC member

 

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presumably the fatal shot was also a frangible bullet. during the 1992 ABA mock trial, Roger McCarthy did an experiment firing a frangible bullet into a plastic milk jug containing water. the bullet did not exit the jug. this is because all of the energy was dissipated upon impact.

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23 minutes ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

presumably the fatal shot was also a frangible bullet. during the 1992 ABA mock trial, Roger McCarthy did an experiment firing a frangible bullet into a plastic milk jug containing water. the bullet did not exit the jug. this is because all of the energy was dissipated upon impact.

Who loads purpose-driven rounds of different types into a rifle's magazine?  Everyone I know, from the recreational shooter to former PD, to ex-military loads a magazine full of the single type of ammunition made for the single purpose.  Either all hunting, all self-defense or all target.  Which makes the LN even more tenuous, considering the titanium-like ability of the previous round in the LHO rifle (supposedly CE399) that can stay so miraculously intact as it caused 7 wounds in two men through one of the hardest bones in the body.  The shooter pre-planned what round would do what damage to the specific part of the target's body? "I'll try hitting with the first round, a FMJ bullet.  I might miss but then I'll get a body hit with round #2 (FMJ).  I have to save that 3rd round for the head since it's a frangible round."  An incredible feat of planning and marksmanship.

Next, why wasn't the magazine fully loaded?  How could LHO or anyone else cooly say to themselves, "The full capacity of this magazine is 6 rounds.  I'm here to assassinate the leader of the free world.  Instead of stacking the deck in my favor by loading the magazine 100%, I'm only going to load up with 4 rounds (of two types of ammo) because I'm JUST THAT GOOD"?

- Different ammo types, loaded in order, based on where I am shooting the target

- Partially loaded magazine

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1 hour ago, Rick McTague said:

Who loads purpose-driven rounds of different types into a rifle's magazine?  Everyone I know, from the recreational shooter to former PD, to ex-military loads a magazine full of the single type of ammunition made for the single purpose.  Either all hunting, all self-defense or all target.  Which makes the LN even more tenuous, considering the titanium-like ability of the previous round in the LHO rifle (supposedly CE399) that can stay so miraculously intact as it caused 7 wounds in two men through one of the hardest bones in the body.  The shooter pre-planned what round would do what damage to the specific part of the target's body? "I'll try hitting with the first round, a FMJ bullet.  I might miss but then I'll get a body hit with round #2 (FMJ).  I have to save that 3rd round for the head since it's a frangible round."  An incredible feat of planning and marksmanship.

Next, why wasn't the magazine fully loaded?  How could LHO or anyone else cooly say to themselves, "The full capacity of this magazine is 6 rounds.  I'm here to assassinate the leader of the free world.  Instead of stacking the deck in my favor by loading the magazine 100%, I'm only going to load up with 4 rounds (of two types of ammo) because I'm JUST THAT GOOD"?

- Different ammo types, loaded in order, based on where I am shooting the target

- Partially loaded magazine

Excellent points. There is an illogicality in the round number and types to a degree that only makes sense in a specific plan. One such as you suggest Rick.

In Paz's shared video above and near the end is a recorded conversation between LBJ and Senator Richard Russell in 1964 discussing doubts about the WC findings. Specifically the 3 DP shots. 

Russell perceptively ( and courageously ) stands firm in his belief that he didn't believe the "magic" bullet could have done all the damage it was reported to have caused and remained so intact and also more than one shooter had to have been firing. Russell mentions the exact points we make here.

Russell mentions a highly trained shooter because of Jackie being within inches of JFK's head and not being hit. And how could someone so accurate in hitting bulls-eyes on JFK  take a shot that didn't even hit the limo?

Edited by Joe Bauer
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4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

In Paz's shared video above and near the end is a recorded conversation between LBJ and Senator Richard Russell in 1964 discussing doubts about the WC findings. Specifically the 3 DP shots. 

Russell perceptively ( and courageously ) stands firm in his belief that he didn't believe the "magic" bullet could have done all the damage it was reported to have caused and remained so intact and also more than one shooter had to have been firing. Russell mentions the exact points we make here.

Russell mentions a highly trained shooter because of Jackie being within inches of JFK's head and not being hit. And how could someone so accurate in hitting bulls-eyes on JFK  take a shot that didn't even hit the limo?

Yes, that's it. And impressive who the talkers were 

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This was discussed a lot when the late Gary Mack put out his Inside the Target Car show.

That show did two things on this issue which made Gary retract that very question about hitting Jackie.

First, they ignored the most obvious firing point from behind the fence which is near the end where it juts out toward the street.  I have been there and that is by far the best firing point along the picket fence.  The target is coming almost right at you and you have time to line up the shot from almost straight on.

What the show did is that it deliberately took this different angle, much more from the side.  That position is not nearly as good because you don't have as much time to line up a good shot.  But even at that, if you watch the Z film, you can get a clear shot at JFK even from that angle without Jackie being in the firing line and Gary later admitted that.

The proof that the shot came from down at the end is the growing amount of evidence of the frontal shot at the right temple.  That evidence is getting pretty strong today.  If you shot JFK from the other angle the exit and entrance would be from the side and out the other side.  I have no idea how to collate that with the evidence at Parkland and Bethesda.

Edited by James DiEugenio
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"the most obvious firing point from behind the fence...where it juts out toward the street".  Until one has been there it's hard to comprehend the closeness.   Like hunting squirrels or rabbits, an easy shot to bark one.  In the throat, or hairline of a human, even for a mediocre hunter/shot like I.  I mean we're talking maybe 20 yards on the last shot, 30 on the first throat shot.  I think I'm being generous here.  Wish Bob Prudhome was still posting for perspective.

Edited by Ron Bulman
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On 2/26/2018 at 11:41 AM, Paul Trejo said:

Mervyn,

I think a lot of us have pondered that question, at least fleetingly, over the past half-century.   I know I have.

The best explanation I have is that the shooters didn't really care that much -- as long as JFK was killed dead.

But luck wasn't the only factor.   The shooters were selected carefully from among the best shooters in Texas; right there in Dallas.

How many members of the Dallas Police and Sheriff's office were former military sharpshooters?

How many members of the Dallas Police and Sheriff's office were currently members of the Radical Right in Dallas politics?

With over 50 years of concentration on this or that CIA agent, the bulk of JFK CT literature has evaded the elephant in the room -- the Dallas Police.   Perhaps only Walt Brown (1995) and Jeff Caufield (2015) have given it any observation.   Yet even these two giants did not have the time to get down to the Warren Commission testimony of these many Dallas officials.

Anyway -- I think that highly trained, sharpshooter VOLUNTEERS (unpaid) were used in the JFK Assassination.  I also believe that to ensure success, one shooter was hidden in the storm drain on Elm Street.

Finally, I am inclined to suspect that one (and only one) Secret Service member from Washington DC, namely, the JFK limo driver, was also a secret member of the Radical Right wing.   That would cinch it.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

On 2/26/2018 at 11:41 AM, Paul Trejo said:

I heard a weird theory on an Internet radio show

I think a lot of us have pondered that question, at least fleetingly, over the past half-century.   I know I have.

The best explanation I have is that the shooters didn't really care that much -- as long as JFK was killed dead.

But luck wasn't the only factor.   The shooters were selected carefully from among the best shooters in Texas; right there in Dallas.

How many members of the Dallas Police and Sheriff's office were former military sharpshooters?

How many members of the Dallas Police and Sheriff's office were currently members of the Radical Right in Dallas politics?

With over 50 years of concentration on this or that CIA agent, the bulk of JFK CT literature has evaded the elephant in the room -- the Dallas Police.   Perhaps only Walt Brown (1995) and Jeff Caufield (2015) have given it any observation.   Yet even these two giants did not have the time to get down to the Warren Commission testimony of these many Dallas officials.

Anyway -- I think that highly trained, sharpshooter VOLUNTEERS (unpaid) were used in the JFK Assassination.  I also believe that to ensure success, one shooter was hidden in the storm drain on Elm Street.

Finally, I am inclined to suspect that one (and only one) Secret Service member from Washington DC, namely, the JFK limo driver, was also a secret member of the Radical Right wing.   That would cinch it.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I heard or read a strange theory.  I think it was on an internet station.  This man said that there was a switch of bodies and that Tippit is in Kennedy's grave and someone, like HL Hunt, the richest man in the world at that time saved the body of Kennedy -- as a trophy.  Hunt was a John Bircher and he hated Kennedy so much.

Kathy C 

 

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6 hours ago, Kathleen Collins said:

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I heard or read a strange theory.  I think it was on an internet station.  This man said that there was a switch of bodies and that Tippit is in Kennedy's grave and someone, like HL Hunt, the richest man in the world at that time saved the body of Kennedy -- as a trophy.  Hunt was a John Bircher and he hated Kennedy so much.

Kathy C 

 

Kathy, have you seen this video?

 

 

I wonder if Tippit had  a mole on his left shoulder.

Edited by Ray Mitcham
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12 hours ago, Kathleen Collins said:

I heard or read a strange theory.  I think it was on an internet station.  This man said that there was a switch of bodies and that Tippit is in Kennedy's grave and someone, like HL Hunt, the richest man in the world at that time saved the body of Kennedy -- as a trophy.  Hunt was a John Bircher and he hated Kennedy so much.

Kathy C 

Kathy,

That's a very strange CT.   Yet it speaks to the Radical Right CT that is documented carefully by Jeff Caufield in his book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).

Since General Walker is very rarely perused in  the JFK CT literature (which is CIA obsessed), I will offer a few lines showing how H.L Hunt and General Walker were related:

1.  When General Walker in late 1961 resigned from the US Army after 30 years of service, and forfeited his Army pension by resigning instead of retiring, he moved directly to Dallas (not his home town) into the neighborhood in which the close relatives of H.L Hunt were living, namely, Oak Lawn, Dallas, into a house on Turtle Creek Blvd that values $2 million today.

2.  General Walker, without an Army pension, and with no visible means of support in Dallas, went to work at an office in an oil company in Dallas, writing right-wing speeches.

3.  In December, 1961, General Walker gave a speech at the Dallas Memorial Auditorium for the National Indignation Committee (NIC) in Dallas, as recorded on YouTube:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYyONwsHqbw

4.  In January, 1962, H.L. Hunt financed General Walker's campaign to be Governor of Texas.   He would run against John Connally for the Democratic nomination.

5.   After General Walker lost that campaign, he continued to tour the USA with right-wing speeches, and made a large right-wing movement.   Here is a cover of Newsweek:    http://www.pet880.com/images/19611204_Newsweek_Cover.JPG

6.   Walker got so popular, that a movie was planned to dramatize his threat to democracy, named, Seven Days in May, starring Burt Lancaster (the bad General) and Kirk Douglas (the good Aide).   JFK and RFK made the White House available to the producers to help them.

7.  During the Cuban Missile crisis in late 1962, Walker deliberately led the racial riots at Ole Miss University (9/30/1962) to prevent the first Black American (James Meredith) from registering for classes there -- knowing that it would rattle JFK and RFK during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

8.  The riots at Ole Miss failed to prevent Meredith from attending school.    JFK and RFK were so angry they decided to send General Walker to an insane asylum immediately.

9.   The ACLU and Thomas Szasz got General Walker out of the insane asylum in three days.

10.  After the failure of General Walker at Ole Miss, finally H.L Hunt began to distance himself from Walker politically -- but they still remained good friends.

11.  General Walker in 1963 was obliged to go underground to accomplish his political goals from that point forward.  

12.  On April 10, 1963, somebody tried to shoot General Walker at his home on Turtle Creek in Dallas.   Marina Oswald says it was Lee Harvey Oswald.  Eye-witnesses reported two people running from the scene of a crime, to a car parked at the Mormon Church across the back alley.

13.  General Walker claimed to Senator Frank Church (1975) that he learned from ranking officials "within days" that Lee Harvey Oswald was one of the two shooters.   http://www.pet880.com/images/19750623_EAW_to_Frank_Church.pdf

14.  According to Jeff Caufield, General Walker tracked Lee Harvey Oswald all year, starting in mid-April, 1963.

15.  General Walker went deeper underground at that point.   HIs contacts (according to Jeff Caufield) included Guy Banister, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall and Carlos Bringuier.

16.  Less than 24 hours after the JFK Assassination on 11/22/1963, General Walker contacted a German newspaper to give them the following scoop which they printed in their next edition: http://www.pet880.com/images/19631129_Deutsche_NZ.jpg

17.   In 1966, H.L. Hunt gave an interview to Playboy magazine, and said that General Walker was "one of the most truthful men" he ever met.

18.   On June 12, 1968, when RFK was killed, General Walker wrote in his Newsletter to the Friends of Walker the following, speaking of himself in the third person:

If authority, in the hands of the Attorney General and the Justice Department, had not seen fit to free Oswald and his associates in the attempted assassination of Edwin A. Walker -- there is no reason to doubt that President John F. Kennedy and Senator Robert F. Kennedy would be alive today.  (General Walker, 1968)

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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I had promised Paul that I would look up in "Brothers" about Kennedy moving to assassinate Castro after he came back from Dallas.  I've been looking for that info today.  Haven't found it yet.  I recall Joan Mellon's book said the same.  The head of JFK Research, Rich Dellarosa said that those 2 books were not his "favorite" books and he didn't buy it.  I agree.  But to Rich, you couldn't say anything against Kennedy.  One time I was reading a book on Kennedy in a book store.  Don't remember the name of it, but it quoted something about JFK's sexual language regarding women.  When I told Rich this he said, "Now,, do you think President Kennedy would talk like that?"  So many books came out since about Kennedy and his girlfriends.  Rich wasn't yet annoyed about them.  He especially liked Marilyn Monroe and said conversation about her was always welcomed on his Forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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