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General Walker, Lee Harvey Oswald and Dallas Officials


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41 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

 

Hi Paul, 

I'm growing more concerned about the station wagon that Marion Meharg and Deputy Craig saw at Dealey Plaza...

 

From Donald B Thompson, Hear No Evil (2013), pp 522-523:

Station_Wagon_1.png


station_wagon_2.png

 

Jason,

Great job on digging up and analyzing these WC docs. They look to be a trove of worthy information. Maybe I'll get to 'em one day. Your putting them out so fast, I can't keep up! Haha! :rolleyes:

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19 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul,

I think Meharg + Craig taken together present a weight of evidence towards a conclusion that a male ran from the TSBD area into a station wagon in the moments after the assassination.   We can forget the Paine station wagon.

I might perhaps attribute more weight to this than you because it presents a new angle: now I want witnesses in Oak Cliff who saw a station wagon.  Not a taxi cab, not a bus, not a man walking - but a station wagon.  Two men in a station wagon, one perhaps dark-skinned....a man getting out of a station wagon.  OR  --- really, any activity related to a green/white station wagon, such as was a station wagon ever seen in the parking area by the railroad tracks?    Or was a green station wagon in some other way noticed around this time?   Does someone else in this story drive a station wagon?

....its just another angle....

It may not be Oswald of course, just some other interesting person who wants to escape the TSBD quickly....we can leave it for now, but it's a new lead for me.

Jason

Jason,

You've got a new angle, insofar as you are simply tracking a Station Wagon, and not a "Green Nash Rambler."   There is, of course, a large literature about the "Green Nash Rambler," which almost entirely seeks to blame Ruth Paine for conspiracy with Lee Harvey Oswald in the JFK Assassination, based on Roger Craig's claims to the WC.

There is another anomaly to consider.

Marion Meharg says he saw Oswald escape into a Station Wagon occur BEHIND the TSBD building, out of the rear dock, and onto Houston Street.   Picture this, if you will.   This is the Northeast corner of the TSBD building at Houston street.

Deputy Roger Craig, on the other hand, has Oswald escape into a Station Wagon on the Southwest side of the TSBD building.   That is a significant problem, and calls for alternative explanations.   Let's review Roger Craig's WC testimony.   IIRC, Roger Craig is standing with James Tague and Buddy Walthers at the triple overpass, seeking signs of a ricocheted bullet.

Mr. BELIN - Did you find anything there to indicate the ricocheted bullet?
Mr. CRAIG - No; we didn't find anything at that time. Now, as we were searching, we had just got over across the street, when I heard someone whistle.
Mr. BELIN - Now, about how many minutes was this after the time that you had turned that young couple over to Lemmy Lewis that you heard this whistle?
Mr. CRAIG - Fourteen or 15 minutes...from the time I heard the first shot...So I turned and--uh-saw a man start to run down the hill on the north side of Elm Street, running down toward Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN - And, about where was he with relation to the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. CRAIG - Uh--directly across that little side street that runs in front of it, He was on the south side of it.
Mr. BELIN - And he was on the south side of what would be an extension of Elm Street, if Elm Street didn't curve down into the underpass?
Mr. CRAIG - Right; right,
Mr. BELIN - And where was he with relation to the west side of the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. CRAIG - Right by the--uh--well, actually, directly in line with the west corner--the southwest corner,
Mr. BELIN - He was directly in line with the southwest corner of the building?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes...
Mr. BELIN - And he started to run toward Elm Street as it curves under the underpass?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes ; directly down the grassy portion of the park...

The problem is not small.   How can we explain this GEOGRAPHIC difference?   It's not just which side of the TSBD; the accounts are on OPPOSITE CORNERS of the building.

These are like two separate dreams.   The real question I would have is how two separate people can have two such different accounts of the same Station Wagon involving Lee Harvey Oswald and the TSBD building.

The clue for me is Ruth Paine.   AFAIK, Roger Craig had nothing to do with Ruth Paine outside of his relationship with Buddy Walthers.    So, the questions I immediately have are these:

1.  Does Marion Meharg know Deputy Roger Craig socially?
2.  Does Marion Meharg know Deputy Buddy Walthers socially?

If we can connect Meharg with Craig, then the urban legend has a root.   The same if Meharg knows Walthers.   What do we know about Meharg?

I will propose a wild guess here -- Buddy Walthers knows both of them -- and pushes both of them to link Ruth Paine with the station wagon.   (There really was a Station Wagon, and Buddy Walthers knew it -- and Buddy Walthers also knew the driver).   Buddy Walthers convinces each weak-minded man to repeat the story of the Station Wagon, naming Ruth Paine -- but Marion Meharg chickens out, and places his own wife in the story, in place of Ruth Paine.

All best,
--Paul

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On 3/19/2018 at 12:26 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Jason,

 

DPD Homicide Detectives (6):

Will Fritz (Captain),

 

Hi Paul,

I'll leave the station wagon aside for now.  

From what I can see, if your CT is correct that the DPD and sheriff's department are the primary workmen of the assassination, DPD Captain Fritz must be an essential man that day.   Fritz and Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker seem to run Dealey Plaza and especially the TSBD.

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 7: DPD Captain Fritz

Capt J.W. Fritz

<Fritz gives direct testimony to the commission in WC Hearings VOL 4 and a deposition in Vol 14>

DIRECT TESTIMONY:

  • 42 Years experience with DPD: Start date 1921
  • 30+ years experience as a head of robbery+homicide bureau
  • Fritz says he planned to be in the motorcade security detail but was ordered to duty at the trade mart 10pm 21 November 2963 by Chief Stevenson
  • Has a prepared notebook to assist in his testimony prepared by DPD Lt. Baker
  • Fritz says JFK shot at 12:35 as told to him by a Secret Service Agent at the Trade Mart
  • Fritz says he was ordered to Parkland; where he told Chief Curry he should be in Dealey Plaza
  • He goes directly to the TSBD.  (Why?)
  • Arrives Parkland: 12:45; Arrives TSBD 12:58
  • "some officer" said the gunman was in the building
  • Fritz says he was asked at arrival if the building should be sealed. (TSBD not sealed until 12:58?1?)
  • Starts at 1st floor and searches all floors until the top (aren't other officers according to testimony already honed in on the 5th floor?)
  • "it wasn't very long" before cartridges were found
  • "crime lab" came "almost immediately" to take pictures and prints
  • "a few minutes later" a rifle is found "near the back stairway"
  • Fritz ejects a live shell from the found gun after it is photographed, keeps the shell, does not mark the shell to preserve the chain of evidence
  • When asked about a Mauser, Fritz responds, "I heard all kinds of reports about the rifle."
  • "they called [the rifle] most everything" says Fritz
  • Denies ever mentioning a 7.65 Mauser
  • Does not initial the rifle to preserve the chain of evidence
  • "believes" Lt. day took custody of the rifle and took it to City Hall, seems unsure about this
  • "about the time we were finished" Roy Truly came to Fritz and says LHO is missing; Truly provides Fritz with Ruth Paine's Irving address
  • Fritz says he does not know the time the rifle was found
  • Leaves immediately after hearing Oswald's name
  • Hears of an officer shot in Oak Cliff before leaving
  • Back at DPD HQ, "someone" told him the shooter in Oak Cliff was LHO
  • Fritz quickly concludes that the man missing from the TSBD is wanted for the Oak Cliff shooting
  • Fritz calls Oswald a "suspect" in the president's shooting based only on Truly report that Oswald is missing
  • Instructs DPD officers to build a "real good" case against Oswald for Tippit's killing because "we didn't have so many witnesses" in JFK's killing.   (why does Fritz say there are not many witnesses in Dealey Plaza?)
  • Initially says he also sends officers to Beckley, then backs off and says he didn't have the Beckley address yet
  • "some officer" tells Fritz that Oswald has a room on Beckley <this is the first we've heard of this; other officers say the Beckley address came from Marina Oswald.>
  • Oswald was already at the station when Fritz arrived
  • Fritz immediately asks him about the room on Beckley
  • Fritz says Oswald arrested at 1:40; arrives at city hall at 2:15; earlier report from Fritz and Baker say interrogation begins at 2:15, now Fritz says, "I don't think that is right."
  • Fritz says interrogation begins 2:20 or 2:25
  • Officers Sims and Boyd are present and others he does not remember
  • FBI agents Bookhout and Hosty are invited in, they are very familiar to Fritz from being in his office "most every day" on other cases
  • DPD Chief Fritz says he makes no record of the questioning and has no idea which order the questions were asked and answered
  • LHO is initially asked basic questions about childhood, background, education

....I have to stop here for a moment.   My main impression is that Hosty is murky around times, outrageously negligent in maintaining the chain of evidence and inexplicably without any formal documentation memorializing the Oswald interrogation.  *his explanation of how he obtained the Beckley address is confused and contradictory to other testimony*

 

Jason

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7 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul,

...From what I can see, if your CT is correct that the DPD and sheriff's department are the primary workmen of the assassination, DPD Captain Fritz must be an essential man that day.   Fritz and Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker seem to run Dealey Plaza and especially the TSBD.

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 5: DPD Captain Fritz

...<Fritz gives direct testimony to the commission in WC Hearings VOL 4 and a deposition in Vol 14>

DIRECT TESTIMONY:                                    <snip>

  •  LHO is initially asked basic questions about childhood, background, education

....I have to stop here for a moment. ...inexplicably without any formal documentation memorializing the Oswald interrogation.  *his explanation of how he obtained the Beckley address is confused and contradictory to other testimony*

Jason

Hi Jason,

In my theory, DPD Homicide Department Captain Will Fritz is one of the central conspirators of the JFK Assassination.  Next to him – at his level – are Sheriff Bill Decker and DPD Chief Jesse Curry.  They are the leaders of the Dallas Police and Deputies, and they are in the best position to control the stories coming out of their departments – as well as all the evidence, witnesses and their families, and the entire crime scene of Dealey Plaza.

For these old-fashioned Southern gentlemen, JFK was not only a Yankee Liberal, but probably was helping the Communists, as a former US General, namely Edwin Walker, had told them.   In my opinion, General Walker was the ideological leader of the JFK plotters through the vehicle of a particularly radical chapter of the John Birch Society in Dallas, led by General Walker and supported by Robert Alan Surrey. 

My main challenge is to prove that Chief Curry, Sheriff Decker and Captain Fritz were all willing to cooperate secretly with the Dallas Radical Right in a plot to kill JFK in Dallas.  The plot had multiple patsies in the wings, but the prize patsy was Lee Harvey Oswald, whom the Radical Right framed and manipulated ever since the attempted murder of General Walker in April 1963.  Before the month of April was over, Oswald was already in New Orleans – in their clutches.

Your summary of Captain Fritz’s Warren Commission (WC) testimony, Jason, stops about halfway, so that you can take a breath.   Fritz’s WC testimony is among the longest of them all, because he was so central to the custody of Lee Harvey Oswald.  

Again, in my reading of the same section that you read, Jason, I will attempt to find the benign explanation for all of Captain Fritz’ behavior during the weekend of 11/22/1963, and see what shakes out of this experiment.

1.     At 12:35, the SS tells Will Fritz of the JFK shooting   Chief Curry orders Fritz to Parkland Hospital, where JFK lies on a gurney, but Fritz is a homicide detective – not a bodyguard.

2.     Fritz arrives at Parkland at 12:45, where he hears the DPD radio transmission that DPD cops are gathering at the TSBD building.   Fritz tells Chief Curry that he will go there.   

3.     Fritz arrives at the TSBD at 12:58.  He and his men pull out their rifles, because of some official warning that the gunman might still be inside the TSBD.

4.     Fritz did not go inside quickly.  According to Deputy Boone, who found three bullet cartridges, Boone leaned out the window to announce to the world that he found the cartridges, and he saw Captain Fritz talking with Sheriff Decker on the sidewalk below him.  The official time for this was 1:15pm.   Apparently, Fritz and Decker were in no hurry to come upstairs.

5.     Fritz says a cop asked him if cops should seal the TSBD building; yet Inspector Herbert Sawyer already testified that he personally had the TSBD building sealed by 12:45.  To be generous, here, Fritz tries to take credit for everything.  I will let this slide.

6.     Fritz says he started at the first floor and worked his way up.  Yet Deputies found the rifle only a few minutes after finding the rifle cartridges, and Fritz was allegedly on hand quickly to see the rifle.  There is no way that Fritz searched all five floors in a few minutes.   Again, he takes credit for the work done by his subordinates.   I will let this slide as well.

7.     When Fritz speaks of the DPD "crime lab" – and this is very specific.  In consists of Lieutenant John Day and his assistant, Detective Robert Studebaker.  Their main duty was crime photography.  Secondary duties included dusting for fingerprints; fingerprint filing and taking fingerprints of prisoners.

8.     Fritz does examine the alleged murder weapon, and treats it carelessly – which is his alleged right as the senior on campus.  He leaves the evidence handling duties to subordinates – he is the Captain of Homicide Detectives – not a laborer.  I will also let this slide.

9.     Fritz claims he did not call the rifle a Mauser – but somebody did, and actually, there were many guesses as to the make and model when Deputies first discovered the rifle, before any closer examination.  Some attributed the ‘Mauser’ remark to Fritz – yet what   people said in those few minutes is unimportant to me.  I let that slide.

10.   Lieutenant Day did not work for Captain Fritz – and Fritz did not track his work.  Day did take charge of the rifle, taking it back to the DPD lab.  Fritz did not keep a timeline because as Captain, he’s not a laborer; he’s the boss of homicide detectives.   I let this slide.

11.   Chief Lumpkin delivered Roy Truly to Fritz to say that Oswald was the only one of his men unaccounted for, with job application address as Ruth Paine's home in Irving.  

12.  The rifle found, the receipt of Ruth Paine’s address, and the news that somebody shot Officer Tippit in Oak Cliff all occurred slightly after 1:15 pm.  This is a weird coincidence.  Then Fritz left the TSBD after hearing this, and drove across the street to the Dallas County Jail to meet for nearly an hour with Sheriff Bill Decker before he finally  drove to DPD HQ.  

13.  Back at DPD HQ, Fritz wondered if the man missing from the TSBD was the same man who killed J.D. Tippit.  I do not find this to be unusual for a veteran cop – seek the quickest solution.   I will let this slide.

14.   Is Fritz just old and tired, and hoping for a quick and easy solution to his crisis?   He is, after all, the Captain of the DPD Homicide Department.  JFK was killed, so that is a homicide, and Fritz was in charge of solving the crime.   He does not delegate this to subordinates – he takes on the case personally. 

15.  What suspects does Fritz have?   Actually, there are many.  Why does he focus so much on Oswald?   For one reason, by 2:15 pm, Lee Harvey Oswald is in custody at the City Jail for the murder of J.D. Tippit, and it would be neat and tidy if Oswald was also the killer of JFK.  It would save a ton of research and investigation.  It is the lazy way – so I find this normal under the circumstances.  I will also let this slide.

16.  Fritz tells his subordinates to build a "real good" case against Oswald for Tippit's murder, because "we didn't have so many witnesses" in JFK's killing.   What he means here is that there were no eye-witnesses who saw Lee Harvey Oswald kill JFK.   Oswald is a “suspect,” but nobody can say – “Yes, that is the face that I saw in the window.”   The one eye-witness who said he saw a face in the window, refused to identify Oswald – he said the “man looked older” to him.  So, Fritz has nobody at all.   This is factual.  I let this slide.

17.  The problem of how the Beckley address came to be known is deep and wide.  There are conflicting stories.   The official WC version is that Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes produced it, based on Oswald’s post office box application from November 1, 1963.  

18.  The Beckley address could not have come from Marina Oswald, since she never went there, and had no idea what the address was.  The same applies to Ruth Paine.  All that Lee Harvey Oswald gave them was a phone number – for emergencies only.

19.  Captain Will Fritz began his interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald at about 2:25 pm.  He invited FBI agents James Hosty and James Bookhout – and they grilled Oswald for hours, and kept no record of the questioning.  This is the weirdest part.  I cannot let this slide.

20.  I myself believe utterly nothing that Captain Fritz reported about the questions and answers of Lee Harvey Oswald.  Not one thing.  The fact that his report – months later – very closely matched the reports of James Hosty, James Bookhout and Harry Holmes, only says to me that they carefully coordinated their reports during those months.

21.  Here is my opening point to reintroduce General Edwin Walker into the narrative.  This is a direct quotation from Dallas FBI agent James Hosty, from his book, Assignment Oswald (1996):   

"My caseload in the four-man counter-intelligence squad in the Dallas office was dominated by right-wingers.  I spent much of my time tracking the movements and actions of both Klan members and members of former US Army General Edwin Walker's radical militia group, known as the Minutemen.”   (James Hosty, ibid. p. 4).   

James Hosty played bridge on a regular basis with Robert Alan Surrey, who kept an office inside General Walker’s personal home at 4011 Turtle Creek Boulevard in Dallas.  James Hosty will be my first link from the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald to General Walker and the Dallas Radical Right.

All best,
--Paul

Edited by Paul Trejo
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1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Hi Jason,

In my theory, DPD Homicide Department Captain Will Fritz is one of the central conspirators of the JFK Assassination. ...

...

Hi Paul, I think this is a good time to reflect on the Dallas cops so far.  In any case, I had a pissy day at work and don't feel like research tonight.  IMO this forum needs about 10 x more research+evidence and about 10 x less opinion and brainstorming, but, we need to come up from the weeds every once in awhile.   

SO....a few subjective thoughts:

  1. The idea of cops covering for other cops is completely familiar and believable.   1200+ Dallas cops can't all be in on the assassination but 1200 cops can keep their mouth shut or say what they're told to say.   Protecting other cops seems job 1 for cops, even today.
  2. BUT, going along with the story or keeping quiet is quite a bit different from actively assassinating a US president.   I can accept most any cop taking money to overlook illegal gambling, prostitution, or liquor law violations.  I can accept the DPD overlooking whatever shady guys in town (like Ruby, the Campisi family, etc.) are up to in return for money, drinks, women...whatever.  But killing the president raises the level of crime and dishonesty to epic proportions.     My belief is that rational sane men are only threatening when they feel threatened.   I guess for me the only thing I can think of that might possibly allow me to think about killing another man is if he was an immediate threat to my family.  What can possibly be so threatening to Fritz and Curry and Decker that makes them think their best choice is to abandon the democratic process and go for a kill????
  3.  Something is fishy in the 7 testimonies we've looked at together so far.  What's fishy is that they're all fishy in the same fishy points in their story.   Essentially, the TSBD is the common thread so far.  My impression is that there is an agreed-upon master story of what happened in the TSBD.  In the stress of testimony and given the not-too-intellectual mindset of some of these guys, the story falls apart around the details.   Helpfully, they aren't pressed on these details which any opposing counsel would tear apart - easily.  Why they went to the TSBD, who was where at the TSBD, the details around what happened on the 6th floor, the timing, the shells, the neat story of progressive evidence (6th floor..shells...gun...Shooting in Oak Cliff....Oswald...Beckley...), how they get the Beckley address...are all questions that it appears to me they remembered in essence ...but forgot to remember in detail when faced with WC attorneys....so there are some fudged details.  Details quickly overlooked.

 

Jason

more Fritz later

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On 3/22/2018 at 10:22 PM, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul, I think this is a good time to reflect on the Dallas cops so far.  In any case, I had a pissy day at work and don't feel like research tonight.  IMO this forum needs about 10 x more research+evidence and about 10 x less opinion and brainstorming, but, we need to come up from the weeds every once in awhile.   

SO....a few subjective thoughts:

  1. The idea of cops covering for other cops is completely familiar and believable.   1200+ Dallas cops can't all be in on the assassination but 1200 cops can keep their mouth shut or say what they're told to say.   Protecting other cops seems job 1 for cops, even today.
  2. BUT, going along with the story or keeping quiet is quite a bit different from actively assassinating a US president.   I can accept most any cop taking money to overlook illegal gambling, prostitution, or liquor law violations.  I can accept the DPD overlooking whatever shady guys in town (like Ruby, the Campisi family, etc.) are up to in return for money, drinks, women...whatever.  But killing the president raises the level of crime and dishonesty to epic proportions.     My belief is that rational sane men are only threatening when they feel threatened.   I guess for me the only thing I can think of that might possibly allow me to think about killing another man is if he was an immediate threat to my family.  What can possibly be so threatening to Fritz and Curry and Decker that makes them think their best choice is to abandon the democratic process and go for a kill????
  3.  Something is fishy in the 7 testimonies we've looked at together so far.  What's fishy is that they're all fishy in the same fishy points in their story.   Essentially, the TSBD is the common thread so far.  My impression is that there is an agreed-upon master story of what happened in the TSBD.  In the stress of testimony and given the not-too-intellectual mindset of some of these guys, the story falls apart around the details.   Helpfully, they aren't pressed on these details which any opposing counsel would tear apart - easily.  Why they went to the TSBD, who ordered them to the TSBD, the details around what happened on the 6th floor, the timing, the Beckley address...are all questions that it appears to me they forgot to remember when faced with WC attorneys....so there are some fudged details.  Details quickly overlooked.

Jason

more Fritz later

Hi Jason,

I agree with the spirit of your exclamation.   Yet as somebody who grew up in Los Angeles in the 1950's and 1960's -- I think I have some semblance of what it was like to live in the South.

The first thing is that the South still resents the Northern Yankee.   Many folks still keep a Confederate flag hanging in their garages, next to their classic Ford Mustang.

The so-called "Taxpayers Revolt" of Proposition 13 of 1972, was likely a strategy to de-fund Public Schools in protest of the 1954 Brown Decision to racially integrate Public Schools.   The bumper sticker and highway billboard, "Impeach Earl Warren" was still common around Los Angeles from 1955-1970, as I recall.

While Yankees try to remain oblivious to the US Radical Right -- mostly in the South -- the Radical Right rears its ugly head more and more often -- even in the 21st century.   It doesn't go away just because we try so hard to ignore it.

In my opinion, the Radical Right was a dominant current in the Dallas Police Force in 1963.  My evidence is from former FBI agent William Turner, and his book, Power on the Right (1971) which has a chapter with a focus on Dallas.   Dallas police in those days were recruited from the US Military, of course, as most police departments were -- however Dallas added a criterion.   Membership in the Minutemen, the KKK or the John Birch Society, was highly valued by the DPD, says William Turner.

So -- there was no corruption in the usual sense.  There's no bribery.   No favors offered -- no blackmail threatened.   This was all volunteer work -- and yes, I'm speaking of the JFK Assassination.   

Once somebody was led to honestly believe that JFK was a Communist and a Traitor to the USA, then the American Duty to shoot him dead if he ever came to Dallas became a categorical imperative.  It was not corruption -- it was Patriotism.    I'm not agreeing with this, yet as a former resident of Southern California from the 1950's through 1960's, I can affirm that many Southern gentlemen truly believed in this -- in their heart of hearts -- as a moral and ethical political opinion.   

OK, that's my response to your first two points above.   My response to your third point is simply to agree absolutely.   FISHY!  The TSBD building is indeed the common thread for the FISHY smell.  I applaud your instincts in your suspicion about some "Master Story" that is agreed-upon, but then under the pressure of official testimony, the "Master Story" falls apart, as you say, "around the details."

I applaud your recognition of all these factors.   I'm reminded of something that Allen Dulles once told his aide, Jacques Zwart: "The full answer to the JFK Assassination is in the pages of the Warren Report, but one must become an expert at hair-splitting."  (Zwart, Invitation to Hairsplitting, 1970).  Zwart's book sadly fell into the old, CIA-did-it trap, and his CT is paper-thin.  Dulles refused to give Zwart any clues at all.   The real clues, IMHO, have simply been ignored for 55 years.   The residents of Dallas killed JFK.   It's really that simple.

All best,
--Paul

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On 3/22/2018 at 9:58 PM, Paul Trejo said:

..

In my opinion, the Radical Right was a dominant current in the Dallas Police Force in 1963. 

...

Hi Paul,

I think you need more evidence. 

I'm waiting for a response on a couple of FOIA requests I submitted around known far right figures in Dallas, but I wonder where else evidence might be found if not in FBI files?

Below is a condensed version of the 5 page summary of Captain Fritz's testimony I've worked on for the last few days.   He's just really nonresponsive in places and resists providing details around Oswald's time in custody.  His explanation of how he found the Beckley address is at odds with other police testimony.   He has trouble providing a coherent sequence of events and resists pinpointing exact times.  He claims he cannot remember who else was with him at times when he was talking to Oswald.   He glosses over his involvement at the TSBD.

I'd say Captain Frtiz's testimony along with Constable Weitzman's testimony is the weakest and should be subject to the most scrutiny.   I'd say where he is weak and floundering is where he wants to hide something.  Of course the 45 pages of his testimony serves to mute both his subtle missteps and make it hard to form broad impressions.  The interjection of Bernard Weissman into the questioning by John J McCloy is baffling!

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 7: DPD Captain Fritz continued from above

  • LHO denies being in Mexico City according to Fritz
  • LHO is angry at FBI agent Hosty for intimidating Marina with thoughts of deporting her back to the USSR
  • Fritz contradicts earlier testimony by saying that LHO volunteered the Beckley address on his own
  • Fritz denies knowing how long he questioned Oswald
  • "I suppose" Hosty and Bookhout asked Oswald questions, Fritz says
  • Helen Markham had to be rushed to identify Oswald because she was getting sick and fainting, Fritz claims
  • Fritz denies knowing whether Hosty is present for round 2 of LHO's interrogation after the lineup for Markham
  • According to LHO, an acquaintance got him the job at the TSBD; however, Fritz says this is at odds with information he has (?)(what information??)
  • The most detailed part of Oswald's testimony Fritz remembers is LHO saying he caught a bus from downtown to his room at Beckley, changed clothes, got a pistol, and then went to the movies
  • Fritz offers various and imprecise responses when asked if and when Oswald was offered a lawyer
  • WC attorney Ball pressures Fritz by demanding the time involved in questioning Oswald; Fritz denies knowing the times involved
  • Fritz isn't sure if other officers talk to Oswald or not
  • Claims LHO was sarcastic and "impudent" during arraignments held in Fritz's office
  • Oswald denies owning a rifle and denies having a rifle wrapped in a blanket at the Paine's house
  • Admits LHO is given a paraffin test; but Fritz does not reveal test results
  • Initially reacts to Wesley Frazier's name by saying this is a man who saw Oswald running away from the TSBD after the assassination
  • Fritz says he asked Marina about curtain rods and Marina denies any knowledge of curtain rods
  • Fritz says Frazier insists Oswald carried a long package into work that day
  • "I am sure" Oswald broke down the rifle for transport, Fritz says
  • Fritz claims witnesses saw Oswald reloading his pistol after the Tippit shooting so the gun taken into custody was fully loaded
  • "I doubt anyone" would have seen Oswald on the 6th floor sniper's nest, Fritz volunteers, because the boxes were so expertly stacked
  • Denies being present when the bag was found - the bag thought used to cover the rifle during transport
  • Fritz emphasizes the reliability of Helen Markham in pinpointing Oswald as Tippit's shooter
  • 3 cards with Alex Hidell were found on LHO, Fritz says, and LHO admits to using this name starting in New Orleans
  • WC attorney Ball practically puts words in Fritz's mouth around the Bus Transfer.  At first Fritz volunteers that Oswald admitted to transferring buses, but Ball instructs Fritz not to say that.
  • Fritz now says Oswald mentions taking a cab, although this is at odds with previous testimony Fritz gives saying Oswald took only a bus, the  testimony about the cab and bus and where Oswald was dropped off is confused
  • At another LHO interrogation Saturday morning, LHO says he changed his entire wardrobe after the cab ride, Fritz says
  • LHO says he was having lunch with "Junior" as the shots were fired in Dealey Plaza
  • "I didn't do it myself probably" Fritz says when asked if a TSBD employee named Junior was checked out
  • Fritz claims LHO denies communist party membership, but Fritz repeats FPCC several times
  • Suddenly Fritz cannot remember what was said at the Saturday morning interrogation from Bookhout
  • LHO denies wanting any local attorneys; LHO says he wants to answer no more questions until he has an attorney, Fritz says
  • Fritz says LHO denies killing JFK and LHO further says everyone will forget the assassination after a few days
  • LHO says the backyard photos are fakes
  • Fritz reiterates that he does not want to go on the record about the timing of interrogations because he isn't sure
  • Claims Marina provides information that backyard photos are from Neely St. apartment
  • Postal Inspector Holmes is introduced into the narrative as a participant in one of the interrogations, time as always unknown
  • WC lawyer Ball tries hard to lead Fritz to admit details about what Frazier said but Fritz is vague
  • "the postal inspector" told Fritz about post office boxes, Fritz says
  • Fritz asks LHO if he had a rifle shipped to his PO box and asks if he ordered a rifle from Klein's; Oswald says no
  • Claims LHO denied living at Neely St apartment
  • Fritz says DPD owns no tape recorders, but needs one
  • Fritz says Warren Reynolds has brain damage and implies he is unreliable
  • Details of the transfer to the county jail are discussed (I'm skipping this for now)
  • Fritz denies handling the police investigation into the April, 1963 shooting of General Walker
  • Fritz is vague around whether he asked LHO about Walker
  • Denies knowing when the description of Oswald was first broadcast
  • Fritz says the information from Roy Truly was "never" given to anyone because Oswald was already captured and therefore Oswald's information was not needed to identify him
  • Suddenly Fritz remembers that "some officer" told him at the TSBD that the shooter was a tall white man
  • Fritz says he did not think Brennan was ever at a lineup with Oswald, but Fritz says Forest Sorrels insisted that Brennan identified Oswald at a lineup
  • Fritz tells a bizarre story about secretly listening in on a FBI call to Bookhout where Hosty is ordered to interrogate Oswald
  • Fritz inexplicably thinks Oswald has had training in taking interrogations & "in sabotage" while in Russia
  • Fritz volunteers that LHO killed Kennedy to support Castro
  • Fritz volunteers that Kennedy spoke about Cuba before Walker was shot and again before Kennedy was shot - this, Fritz says, probably provoked Oswald to shoot both Walker and Kennedy
  • LHO says LBJ will maintain Kennedy's policies, according to Fritz, but Fritz can't remember if Oswald says this to Fritz directly or someone else (*then how does Fritz know Oswald said it if he can't remember this detail of who Oswald was talking to???)
  • Fritz denies knowing Tippit but says he is certain Ruby did not know Tippit.
  • LHO was dedicated to a cause, Fritz says
  • Fritz says Roger Craig's story didn't fit with what the DPD "knew to be true"
  • Denies Craig spoke with Oswald in Fritz's office
  • Fritz suggests WC attorney Ball find DPD testimony to disprove or corroborate Craig's claim of speaking to LHO
  • Fritz admits he has control over what the local press says; but complains the nonlocal press writes whatever they want
  • Fritz claims he has no control over who is in his office and says he cannot tell anyone to leave such as the FBI or Texas Rangers!
  • Strangely Fritz volunteers that simply telling the truth works better for him than changing the story of what happened with Oswald
  • Fritz again insulates himself by insisting he cannot testify accurately as to time and dates
  • Strangely, Fritz's testimony is interrupted to hear from DPD officer T. L. Baker who says LHO was fingerprinted after midnight (late Friday/early Saturday)  ... but Fritz previously testified that LHO was not fingerprinted
  • Frtiz's testimony now resumes; and Fritz says the DPD never heard of Oswald previous to 22November
  • Fritz claims he does not know Bernard Weissman, but remembers his name on the bottom of the anti-JFK newspaper ad

 

CONCERNS:

  • Is Fritz concerned other officers are going to report their own questions and answers from Oswald?  Fritz simply refuses to say who exactly talked to Oswald and what questions others may have asked.
  • Why is Oswald arraigned in Fritz's office and not open court?
  • Fritz is insistent no one would have seen Oswald even if they had been on the 6th floor because of the intricate box arrangement - does Fritz want to immune the official story from questions of how Oswald could not have been seen?
  • Why does Fritz claim he is unable to remember what was said during which interrogation (especially from Hosty & Bookhout), yet at other times he claims he remembers which interrogation certain questions were asked?
  • Are all DPD interrogations in this era missing information about time and the exact questions/answers made during the interrogation?
  • Why does WC attorney Ball have to help Fritz get the story of the bus transfer straight?
  • How does Fritz know so quickly to ask about a rifle being ordered to a PO box?  How did this evidence appear so fast?
  • Why are we not told the results of TSBD employee Junior's questioning, i.e, did he eat lunch with Oswald?
  • Oswald denying his stay at the Neely St apartment does not at all make sense - is Fritz trying to paint LHO as trying to hide Neely?
  • Is there evidence of DPD recording other witness/defendant statements on a tape recorder in this era?
  • *Fritz's testimony about Brennan not being at any lineup with Oswald* is pivotal.  Fritz practically admits Forrest Sorrels had records changed to show Brennan identified Oswald in a lineup (Volume 4, p 237)  
  • Why is Fritz secretly listening to FBI agents phone calls and why is he admitting it?
  • Where in the heck does Fritz get the idea that Oswald has had training in sabotage while in Russia?
  • Fritz is trying hard to say Oswald had KGB training in the USSR and repeatedly insists Oswald killed Kennedy for Castro.
  • What evidence does Fritz use to conclude that he thinks Oswald killed Kennedy to support Castro?
  • Fritz has an amazing ability to remember JFK's speeches on Cuba that allegedly provoke Oswald to shoot Walker and then Kennedy, but Fritz can't remember the time of day or the length of time he questioned Oswald
  • Why does Fritz interject without being asked that Oswald believes LBJ will continue JFK's polices?
  • If Fritz did not know Tippit at all, how can Fritz say whether or not Fritz knew Ruby?
  • How does Fritz know on 22 November in the afternoon all the facts of the assassination such that he is sure Roger Craig's story is untrue?  Why is Fritz hostile to Craig by mid-afternoon of the 22nd instead of treating him as another witness in an investigation?
  • How can a 40 year police officer like Fritz claim he has no ability or habit of recording time and dates?
  • How does Fritz remember the details of a minor player in all this -Bernard Weissman- but can't remember important details like who was present when Oswald was questioned? 
  • Why does McCloy ask about Weissman of all people in this case?  Is it just possible that McCloy suspects Fritz is connected to the radical right?

 

PS - One thing I'm noticing is that WC testimony confusingly jumps around between 3 separate crimes - the murders of Kennedy, Oswald, and Tippit.   There's a lot of focus on Oswald's murder and the security arrangements of the jail transfer, somewhat less focus on the Kennedy security arrangements, and officer Tippit's death (along with most everything that happens in Oak Cliff) is minimally talked about in testimony.

PPS - I think this has to be manged in modules.   It's sloppy to simultaneously compile the story of 3 murders simultaneously.   For now, I think we must extract and distill the testimony of the JFK murder only.  More specifically, I think we must focus on the TSBD and Oswald in Oak Cliff.   I say this knowing that Tippit's murder and Oswald's execution give important clues to Kennedy's assassination.

jw

Edited by Jason Ward
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On 3/22/2018 at 11:58 PM, Paul Trejo said:

In my opinion, the Radical Right was a dominant current in the Dallas Police Force in 1963

I am thinking that the oil and MIC money that was flowing, or about to flow, into Dallas was the "dominant current" in 1963. JFK thought that the TFX contract was about to be shipped to Kansas. JFK was about to pull the rug out from under contracts for 10,000 helicopters that would not be needed in Asia. JFK was challenging the KKK. JFK was Catholic. 

And, the Dallas Police were, according to you, Paul, all "radical right", and that is what got The President killed, and the crime covered-up?

Earl Cabell was the mayor of Dallas. A year later he would be a Texas State Representative. Earle Cabell was...........  CIA.

And a few hundred Dallas Cops were running the show, and killed the United States President, and were able to cover it up?

And, according to you, Paul, David Morales, Howard Hunt and David Atlee Phillips (All CIA), along with Bannister (FBI) and Antonio Veciana, all were prime movers in the plot to Asssassinate JFK? But Dallas cops "were the dominant current"?

What about the mob? Where do the "currents"' of the mafia flow and eddy around your men in blue.

I know, I know, the CIA guys were on lunch break. I have heard your story about that. But, what about the rest, Paul?

Edited by Michael Clark
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RFK: The TFX, Have you been watching that? The newspapermen think that there's something there. They think that something funny went on."

JFK: " Well you know what went ON, nobody wanted to go to Topeka, Kansas! That's all that went on!"

at 3:15

 

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On 3/19/2018 at 12:26 PM, Paul Trejo said:

...

In my quick review, that limits it to those marked in purple above.   Here's my new list of 14 Dallas Police employees -- and I think this is a manageable number:

DPD HQ and Patrolmen (1):

J. Herbert Sawyer (Inspector) 

 

DPD Homicide Detectives (6):

Will Fritz (Captain), Elmer Boyd, C.W. Brown, Bob CarrollMarvin JohnsonRichard Sims.

 

DPD Traffic and Accident – Motorcycle (2):

Marrion BakerThomas Hutson.                         

 

DPD Traffic and Accident – Foot Patrol (3):

D.V. Harkness (Sergeant), Welcome Barnett, Joe Smith.          

 

DPD Personnel Department (2):

W.R. Westbrook (Captain), Gerald Hill (Sergeant) 

To summarize  my request, Jason -- may we please place these 14, plus Deputy Roger Craig, highest in the queue at this time?   If so, please place Deputy Craig next.

...

Hi Paul,

You don't have J.C. Day on this list, but I am curious about him since he is presented numerous times in police testimony as the crime scene investigator.  His job is to process evidence, take photographs, collect fingerprints.   All the testimonies about finding the shell casings and the gun end when the police say Day takes over.

 

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 8 Dallas Police Department Crime Scene Investigator Lt. J.C. Day

DPD Lieutenant Day, age 50:

  • Day's testimony is a complete fiasco
  • Day told early WC  staff investigators that he marked the evidence found at the crime scene, but in sworn testimony he admits this was not true
  • Day admits he did not mark the shell casings until well into the night of the 22nd
  • Day admits the envelope containing the shell casings was open and not sealed at the crime scene
  • Day testifies the boxes as shown in his photographs were not touched by anyone before he arrived
  • Day is unable to explain why press photos of the TSBD shortly after the assassination don't match the arrangement of boxes he photographed
  • Day is pressured by WC lawyer Belin concerning severe inconsistencies in the story of how the boxes were arranged and how the shells were found; Day is asked if he needs to correct earlier testimony
  • Day is confused about whose initials are on the shell casings; thinks they might be from a FBI agent (but the FBI wasn't present at TSBD)
  • 1:23 pm is the time shell casings are delivered to DPD officer Sims, Day says 
  • Day claims he dusted all the shell casings for fingerprints, found none, and then was called by Capt Fritz to the found rifle
  • Day admits Fritz handled the rifle before Day dusted for fingerprints
  • Fritz keeps the live round ejected from the found rifle
  • Day says he found a palmprint on the metal rifle barrel, after removing the wooden stock covering the metal barrel
  • Day is ordered to stop work on the rifle and let the FBI take over
  • Upon lifting the palmprint, Day decides it is from Oswald, since Oswald prints were taken in Fritz's office
  • 11:45pm the gun is given to the FBI, according to Day
  • Day denies that the found rifle is EVER referred to as a Mauser by anyone on the 6th floor
  • Day says the press is on the 6th floor at the time the rifle is found
  • A brown bag taped together, long enough to hold a rifle is dusted for prints, none are found
  • Day volunteers that he finds tape in the TSBD matching the tap on the found bag
  • Later on the 22nd, Day returns to the TSBD an finds Oswald's palmprint on a box
  • Day denies comparing TSBD evidence with the evidence in the Walker shooting
  • Day orders a paraffin test on Oswald but says rifles with telescopic sites will not leave nitrates on the shooters face
  • Day says revolvers will leave nitrates on the shooters hands; Oswald tests positive for nitrates on his hands

CONCERNS:

  1. There is NO documented chain of evidence for the gun or the bullets.  They could have been manipulated, replaced, or who knows? at any time.
  2. The boxes were obviously re-arranged by the time Day photographed them as a press photograph shows the boxes in a different arrangement
  3. Fritz's testimony suggests Oswald was not fingerprinted until after midnight, yet Day says Oswald was fingerprinted 3 times and Day has his fingerprints before midnight
  4. Why does Fritz keep the bullet discharged from the found rifle - isn't this Day's job?
  5. Day is proactively confronted by WC attorney Belin for having two different stories between the initial investigation by WC staff and the time Day gives formal testimony - in particular, Day has to retract his original statement that he marked the shell casings when they were found at TSBD....in other words...DID DAY FIND SHELL CASINGS AT THE TSBD, MARK THEM, AND THEN HAVE THEM REPLACED LATER TO MATCH THE FOUND RIFLE?
  6. Capt. Fritz and all previous police officers on the 6th floor admit there was some confusion as to the found rifle being a Mauser and that one or more officers called it a Mauser: why does Lt. Day deny any mention of the word Mauser on the 6th floor?
  7. Why does Day order a paraffin if he doesn't think they can show if someone has fired a rifle as he testifies?
  8. What else puts nitrates on hands besides firing a pistol?  Eating bacon?
  9. Day's testimony that he finds tape in the TSBD shipping department matching the tape found on the brown paper bag is very convenient but suspicious
  10. It seems to me a lot of holes in the physical evidence (guns, shells, boxes, prints) had to be sloppily explained during this WC testimony - and Lt. Day is unconvincing, especially since he initially claimed he marked all evidence found at TSBD but later says he did not.

My number one take away from Lt Day is that boxes were moved before he got there.  My second take away is that the shell casings found in the TSBD are probably not the shell casings officially entered into evidence.  My third take away is that Lt Day did not get the agreed-upon-story straight regarding the identification of the rifle as a Mauser.  Finally, when and if Oswald was fingerpinted is in dispute between Fritz and Day.  

Day's testimony is a complete disaster.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul,

I think you need more evidence. 

I'm waiting for a response on a couple of FOIA requests I submitted around known far right figures in Dallas, but I wonder where else evidence might be found if not in FBI files?

Below is a condensed version of the 5 page summary of Captain Fritz's testimony I've worked on for the last few days.   He's just really nonresponsive in places and resists providing details around Oswald's time in custody.  His explanation of how he found the Beckley address is at odds with other police testimony.   He has trouble providing a coherent sequence of events and resists pinpointing exact times.  He claims he cannot remember who else was with him at times when he was talking to Oswald.   He glosses over his involvement at the TSBD.

I'd say Captain Frtiz's testimony along with Constable Weitzman's testimony is the weakest and should be subject to the most scrutiny.   I'd say where he is weak and floundering is where he wants to hide something.  Of course the 45 pages of his testimony serves to mute both his subtle missteps and make it hard to form broad impressions.  The interjection of Bernard Weissman into the questioning by John J McCloy is baffling!

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 7: DPD Captain Fritz continued from above

<snip>

CONCERNS:

  • Is Fritz concerned other officers are going to report their own questions and answers from Oswald?  Fritz simply refuses to say who exactly talked to Oswald and what questions others may have asked.
  • Why is Oswald arraigned in Fritz's office and not open court?
  • Fritz is insistent no one would have seen Oswald even if they had been on the 6th floor because of the intricate box arrangement - does Fritz want to immune the official story from questions of how Oswald could not have been seen?
  • Why does Fritz claim he is unable to remember what was said during which interrogation (especially from Hosty & Bookhout), yet at other times he claims he remembers which interrogation certain questions were asked?
  • Are all DPD interrogations in this era missing information about time and the exact questions/answers made during the interrogation?
  • Why does WC attorney Ball have to help Fritz get the story of the bus transfer straight?
  • How does Fritz know so quickly to ask about a rifle being ordered to a PO box?  How did this evidence appear so fast?
  • Why are we not told the results of TSBD employee Junior's questioning, i.e, did he eat lunch with Oswald?
  • Oswald denying his stay at the Neely St apartment does not at all make sense - is Fritz trying to paint LHO as trying to hide Neely?
  • Is there evidence of DPD recording other witness/defendant statements on a tape recorder in this era?
  • *Fritz's testimony about Brennan not being at any lineup with Oswald* is pivotal.  Fritz practically admits Forrest Sorrels had records changed to show Brennan identified Oswald in a lineup (Volume 4, p 237)  
  • Why is Fritz secretly listening to FBI agents phone calls and why is he admitting it?
  • Where in the heck does Fritz get the idea that Oswald has had training in sabotage while in Russia?
  • Fritz is trying hard to say Oswald had KGB training in the USSR and repeatedly insists Oswald killed Kennedy for Castro.
  • What evidence does Fritz use to conclude that he thinks Oswald killed Kennedy to support Castro?
  • Fritz has an amazing ability to remember JFK's speeches on Cuba that allegedly provoke Oswald to shoot Walker and then Kennedy, but Fritz can't remember the time of day or the length of time he questioned Oswald
  • Why does Fritz interject without being asked that Oswald believes LBJ will continue JFK's polices?
  • If Fritz did not know Tippit at all, how can Fritz say whether or not Fritz knew Ruby?
  • How does Fritz know on 22 November in the afternoon all the facts of the assassination such that he is sure Roger Craig's story is untrue?  Why is Fritz hostile to Craig by mid-afternoon of the 22nd instead of treating him as another witness in an investigation?
  • How can a 40 year police officer like Fritz claim he has no ability or habit of recording time and dates?
  • How does Fritz remember the details of a minor player in all this -Bernard Weissman- but can't remember important details like who was present when Oswald was questioned? 
  • Why does McCloy ask about Weissman of all people in this case?  Is it just possible that McCloy suspects Fritz is connected to the radical right?

PS - One thing I'm noticing is that WC testimony confusingly jumps around between 3 separate crimes - the murders of Kennedy, Oswald, and Tippit.   There's a lot of focus on Oswald's murder and the security arrangements of the jail transfer, somewhat less focus on the Kennedy security arrangements, and officer Tippit's death (along with most everything that happens in Oak Cliff) is minimally talked about in testimony.

PPS - I think this has to be manged in modules.   It's sloppy to simultaneously compile the story of 3 murders simultaneously.   For now, I think we must extract and distill the testimony of the JFK murder only.  More specifically, I think we must focus on the TSBD and Oswald in Oak Cliff.   I say this knowing that Tippit's murder and Oswald's execution give important clues to Kennedy's assassination.

jw

Hi Jason,

You're right -- I need more evidence.   Yet your willingness to carefully review the WC testimony of the Dallas Police and Deputies is helping to gain that evidence -- always sitting there, which Americans have been willfully ignoring for 55 years, because the prospect of law-abiding citizens killing JFK out of political conviction is too painful to observe.

I think you have summarized the problems in Will Fritz's WC testimony superbly.   I have nothing to add, really -- except to assure you that the problems will become even more clear when we review the WC testimony of those whom he names as also present during the interrogations of Lee Harvey Oswald.   Do not expect answers -- expect to see more problems -- and the same problems expanding in detail and shape.

Your scholarship is second to none on this Forum these days -- I declare.

All best,
--Paul

P.S.   I agree that the WC testimony of Fritz -- like that of the WC generally -- jumps around fairly randomly between the murders of JFK, Tippit and Oswald.    The best way to make sense of the mess is to address the testimony in "modules" as you say -- that is -- select one murder at a time.    I would start with the JFK murder and set the others aside for awhile.   I also appreciate this special focus on the TSBD.   Here is where the problems show a profoundly twisted shape.

Edited by Paul Trejo
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8 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul,

You don't have J.C. Day on this list, but I am curious about him since he is presented numerous times in police testimony as the crime scene investigator.  His job is to process evidence, take photographs, collect fingerprints.   All the testimonies about finding the shell casings and the gun end when the police say Day takes over.

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 8 

Dallas Police Department Crime Scene Investigator Lt. J.C. Day

                                                                                                                                       <snip>

CONCERNS:

  1. There is NO documented chain of evidence for the gun or the bullets.  They could have been manipulated, replaced, or who knows? at any time.
  2. The boxes were obviously re-arranged by the time Day photographed them as a press photograph shows the boxes in a different arrangement
  3. Fritz's testimony suggests Oswald was not fingerprinted until after midnight, yet Day says Oswald was fingerprinted 3 times and Day has his fingerprints before midnight
  4. Why does Fritz keep the bullet discharged from the found rifle - isn't this Day's job?
  5. Day is proactively confronted by WC attorney Belin for having two different stories between the initial investigation by WC staff and the time Day gives formal testimony - in particular, Day has to retract his original statement that he marked the shell casings when they were found at TSBD....in other words...DID DAY FIND SHELL CASINGS AT THE TSBD, MARK THEM, AND THEN HAVE THEM REPLACED LATER TO MATCH THE FOUND RIFLE?
  6. Capt. Fritz and all previous police officers on the 6th floor admit there was some confusion as to the found rifle being a Mauser and that one or more officers called it a Mauser: why does Lt. Day deny any mention of the word Mauser on the 6th floor?
  7. Why does Day order a paraffin if he doesn't think they can show if someone has fired a rifle as he testifies?
  8. What else puts nitrates on hands besides firing a pistol?  Eating bacon?
  9. Day's testimony that he finds tape in the TSBD shipping department matching the tape found on the brown paper bag is very convenient but suspicious
  10. It seems to me a lot of holes in the physical evidence (guns, shells, boxes, prints) had to be sloppily explained during this WC testimony - and Lt. Day is unconvincing, especially since he initially claimed he marked all evidence found at TSBD but later says he did not.

My number one take away from Lt Day is that boxes were moved before he got there.  My second take away is that the shell casings found in the TSBD are probably not the shell casings officially entered into evidence.  My third take away is that Lt Day did not get the agreed-upon-story straight regarding the identification of the rifle as a Mauser.  Finally, when and if Oswald was fingerpinted is in dispute between Fritz and Day.  

Day's testimony is a complete disaster.

Hi Jason,

It often seemed to me that Lieutenant John Day is willfully blind to the events.   He is not a JFK plotter (I say cautiously) but he will never accuse his fellow police officers of illegal activities, either.  He is a Team Player, and he seems willing to excuse every anomaly in the JFK case as simple "incompetence," or "irrelevance" and quickly move on to the next question.

 It seems to me that Lieutenant Day regards himself as 'better' than the average DPD cop, and even better than the higher level brass.  After all, he is a technician, with scientific training in identification, crime scene control, and photography.   His scope is well-defined, and after all, he can't help it if these "lesser educated" officers don't understand the basics of crime scene control.

Yet he will not criticize anybody openly -- these other officers are also honorable men -- they put their lives at risk on the street everyday.   So, in the interest of unity and the spirit of camaraderie, Lieutenant Day will "see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil."    Even when the evidence is right in his face. 

Perhaps Day is an 'accessory after the fact.'    Yet I sort of doubt that the JFK plotters would select a scientific man as an initial accomplice -- way too critical.

All best,
--Paul

Edited by Paul Trejo
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14 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

In my quick review, that limits it to those marked in purple above.   Here's my new list of 14 Dallas Police employees -- and I think this is a manageable number:

DPD HQ and Patrolmen (1):

J. Herbert Sawyer (Inspector) 

 

DPD Homicide Detectives (6):

Will Fritz (Captain), Elmer Boyd, C.W. Brown, Bob CarrollMarvin JohnsonRichard Sims.

 

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 9 Dallas Police Department Detective Elmer Boyd

DPD Det. Boyd, age ~35

  • 11 years at DPD, relies on a prepared DPD report in giving testimony
  • WC attorney Ball asks to see original handwritten notes used to prepare the report
  • 22 NOV 63: assigned with Capt Fritz & Det. Sims at the Trade Mart
  • 12:40 phone call from Capt Stevenson alerts Fritz and Boyd of shots fired at the president
  • Proceeds to Parkland, picks up Sheriff Decker, ordered by Chief Curry to TSBD
  • Remembers hearing TSBD first mentioned on drive from Trade Mart to Parkland
  • At TSBD, stops on unknown floors, gets off at 7th floor, then called to 6th floor when shell casings are found
  • Sees lunch sack, chicken bones, and after "a while" sees a found rifle at >>southwest<< corner of 6th floor
  • "a lot of officers" were on the 6th floor as Lt. Day is taking photos
  • Leaves TSBD on way to Irving (!) but is told Capt. Fritz must be taken to see Sheriff Decker
  • Capt Fritz obtained the Irving address from "some man" on the 6th floor
  • Boyd says they are in Sheriff Decker's office when they hear a man is arrested in Oak Cliff for shooting a cop
  • Boyd immediately contradicts himself and says he was on the 6th floor when they hear a man is arrested for Tippit's shooting
  • At 2:20 at DPD headquarters, Boyd talks to Lt Baker and takes LHO from interrogation room to Fritz's office
  • Boyd says present in Fritz's office are DPD officers Hall & Sims, along with FBI agents Hosty and Bookhout
  • Boyd thinks their might also have been a Secret Service Man present at the interrogation
  • LHO gives police the address for his rooming house on Beckley, Boyd says
  • LHO is upset at Hosty for harassing Marina
  • LHO denies visiting Mexico City
  • Boyd says the FBI man took notes of the interrogation
  • LHO is interrogated in Frtiz's office from 2:20 to 4:00, Boyd says
  • Boyd finds five .38 bullets while searching LHO, which he marks to maintain the chain of evidence
  • Boyd does not know what he did with the bullets after he marked them
  • Claims 3 others in the identity parade were better dressed than Oswald
  • 4:20 LHO is taken back to Fritz's office for more interrogation
  • Boyd does not recall who was present at the 2nd interrogation and does not know the names of FBI nor SS agents
  • Mr Kelley is present at one interrogation, Boyd says
  • Boyd is unclear as to how long the 2nd interrogation lasts
  • LHO has coffee but no food, Boyd says
  • Boyd does not remember anything said during the interrogation
  • 6:20 another identity parade; returns to Fritz's office by 7:00; Oswald is then arraigned
  • LHO denies shooting anyone
  • Boyd denies knowing what Oswald said at the arraignment
  • LHO asks for an attorney around the time of the first lineup, Boyd says (i.e. 2:20pm); Fritz responds he can call "later on," Boyd says
  • "Mr Clements" begins interrogating Oswald
  • Suddenly, Boyd provides a precise quote of what Oswald says - which is an announcement that he is through talking
  • 7:40-7:55 another identity parade; then back to Fritz's office
  • LHO is fingerprinted in Fritz's office, then paraffin tested
  • The time is now 11:30
  • Oswald is taken for a short appearance in front of the press, then put in jail
  • 23NOV63, 10:25AM, Oswald is retrieved to Fritz's office from jail
  • Present at this interrogation is "the FBI," US Marshall Robert Nash, Mr Kelley, Mr Sims, Mr Hall, and Capt Fritz
  • Boyd denies remembering any questions asked of Oswald
  • 11:30 LHO is taken back to jail
  • Boyd then goes to 1026 N Beckley, but does not know if he had a search warrant
  • Boyd finds and retrieves "nothing" at N Beckley
  • Boyd suddenly remembers an exact quote from Oswald explaining why his face was injured
  • "I never saw a man who could answer questions like Oswald did," Boyd claims, insisting LHO seemed intelligent and prepared
  • LHO acts like a man who likes to move around a lot and is not satisfied, in Boyd's analysis
  • Mr Sims took a bus transfer and a ring from LHO during a search
  • Boyd again denies knowing who was present for the first interrogation of LHO but mentions officer K E Lyons
  • Boyd now contradicts his earlier testimony and says LHO is returned to jail late Friday night at 12:23am (technically early 23NOV)

CONCERNS

  1. Boyd offers several contradictions as to what happened and when towards the end of Friday night
  2. It is hard to believe that a suspect in a famous case is getting interrogated but Boyd does not remember what was said
  3. Boyd's activities at the TSBD are described in no detail, except that Boyd says the rifle is found in the SOUTHWEST corner and not the SOUTHEAST corner as others testify
  4. Boyd says they hear about Oswald's arrest while in Sheriff Decker's office; then he changes this story to indicate he was actually on the 6th floor
  5. Is visiting Sheriff Decker's office part of Fritz's testimony?   Is there some type of secret meeting in Decker's office no one is supposed to mention?
  6. Boyd's version of Oswald's time at DPD headquarters suggests Oswald was denied immediate access to a lawyer, while Fritz says LHO was offered a lawyer repeatedly
  7. How does Boyd have a few exact quotes from Oswald but for the most part claims he remembers nothing Oswald says?
  8. The address on Beckley is provided by Oswald says Boyd, versus various other sources of this address in other testimony
  9. Boyd's claim of neither finding nor collecting anything of interest at the Beckley rooming house is suspicous
  10. Boyd seems to want to paint Oswald as trained and prepared for the interrogation, which apparently echos Capt Fritz's claim that Oswald appears trained by the Russians 

Overall, Lt Boyd does not present anything remarkable - except of course his remarkable inability to remember who was present at Oswald's interrogations and what was said.  Does Boyd have a habit in his testimony of letting a little bit of the factual sequence of events slip out unedited, only to realize a few seconds later he needs to correct himself to maintain the master story?

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On 3/22/2018 at 9:58 PM, Paul Trejo said:

I'm reminded of something that Allen Dulles once told his aide, Jacques Zwart: "The full answer to the JFK Assassination is in the pages of the Warren Report, but one must become an expert at hair-splitting."  (Zwart, Invitation to Hairsplitting, 1970).

Paul,

Well, Dulles presents another riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

As to becoming an "expert at hair-splitting," I interpret that to mean the details of testimony must be probed -and- we must take an alternate definition or implication of certain words and "facts" found in testimony than the definition or implication adopted by the official WR.  Details interpreted slightly differently found in WR evidence holds the answer, I guess is what Dulles is saying.

I can predict that after looking at this core of TSBD law enforcement officers in sworn testimony, we will want to look at what else they say and do later or in other parts of their lives.  But first the testimony.

 

Jason

Edited by Jason Ward
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  • Paul Trejo changed the title to General Walker, Lee Harvey Oswald and Dallas Officials

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