Paul Trejo Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, Can you take a look at the memo below? I think the claim that Marina is a hardcore communist is absurd, along with the other hints of Oswald's apparent involvement in a communist conspiracy to kill Kennedy. Doesn't this indicate that the Reds-did-it CT was sponsored by the Secret Service in Dallas, even days after the assassination? Hi Jason, Here is Dallas Secret Service SAC William H. Patterson, who was not called as a WC witness. He was not involved with the Dealey Plaza or TSBD episodes -- he was guarding AF1 as his main duty on 11/22/1963. Yet I'm amazed at the similarity of his ideology here when compared with the ideology that we read in Dallas FBI agent James Hosty's book, Assignment Oswald (1996), especially as regards Marina Oswald. James Hosty repeats throughout his book that even as late as 1996 he remained convinced that Marina Oswald was a KGB agent, and that she and Lee Harvey Oswald had been ordered by the USSR to kill JFK. This fear of everything Russian was a component of the Dallas city spirit -- the Zeitgeist of Dallas 1963. It was reflected most plainly in the speeches of General Edwin Walker, the only US General to resign in the 20th century -- who resigned on the belief that he was the target of a Communist Plot through the US Army newspaper, The Overseas Weekly. and one of its Russian-born owners, Eugene Bernald. Anyway -- what's interesting to me about William H. Patterson is that he drove WC attorney Burt Griffin to the home of ATF agent Frank Ellsworth in April, 1964, to talk about the Dallas Minutemen, the Dallas John Birch Society, and John Thomas Masen. Secret Service Chief Rowley requested that Patterson supply a memo of that meeting. Here's my evidence: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=61499#relPageId=70 My problem today is that I can't find Patterson's memo to Chief Rowley about that meeting. Perhaps you've seen it? All best, --Paul Edited April 10, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jason Ward said: TIME STUDY 6 - DPD Inspector Herbert Sawyer Can we extrapolate these parts of his testimony to a timeline? WC Attorney Belin makes Sawyer pin down times matched to the radio log even though other witnesses get away without nailing down times...why? Jason, I think that WC attorney Belin pressed Inspector Sawyer on the Timeline of the TSBD lockdown for two reasons: (1) it didn't match the Dallas radio log; and (2) it didn't match the Warren Commission official version. Experts from Washington DC would tell the Warren Commission that the main flaw of the Dallas Police in the circus of the JFK Assassination saga was that they failed to lock down the TSBD before the sniper could escape. That was UNPROFESSIONAL they agreed. The PROFESSIONAL blame for the circus of 11/22/1963 was therefore set on the table of DPD Inspector Herbert Sawyer. Naturally, he tried to wiggle out of it, but the WC could not let that stand, otherwise, all these other WC witnesses -- experts from Washington DC -- would be made out to be idiots. According to the official timeline of the DPD Radio Log, the TSBD could not have been locked down earlier than 12:43. The accounts we have from various officers conflict with this timing -- and it surely it important. It is one of the key aspects of WC testimony about the TSBD timeline that involves "multiple contradictions." I feel fairly comfortable ascribing all of these witness discrepancies to the BLAME and SHAME coming out of Washington DC, regarding the sloppy handling of the TSBD seal-off. The DPD cops didn't want to look bad, and the cops didn't want their bosses to look bad, so they circled the wagons. But they never got their "Master Story" straight. They couldn't, because the Dallas Police Radio Log was already history. All best, --Paul Edited April 10, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) On 4/7/2018 at 8:50 PM, Paul Trejo said: Plotting a time-frame is always useful TIME STUDY 7 - DPD Capt Will Fritz Can we extrapolate these parts of his testimony to a timeline? Capt Fritz offers two testimonies to the Warren Commission: a deposition in Dallas and live testimony in Washington Capt Fritz testifying before the Warren Commission in Washington on April 22, 1964 Fritz created a notebook from a team effort of officers to help him narrate a timeline 12:35 JFK shot, Fritz hears about it at the Trade Mart from a Secret Service man 12:45 Fritz is at Parkland Hostpital, sees Curry 12:58 Fritz arrives at TSBD, believes shooter is still inside. Fritz, now brandishing a shotgun, begins searching the building 12:58 Fritz apparently does not believe the TSBD is yet sealed as upon his arrival he asks if he would like the building sealed; Fritz orders the TSBD sealed Fritz begins searching the TSBD, around 12:58, starting from the bottom, and "probably" to the top "it wasn't very long until someone" told Fritz empty shell casings were found; he places a guard on this evidence and resumes searching "a few minutes later some officer" informed Fritz the rifle had been found, he places a guard on this evidence and asks Lt Day to make photographs the rifle was called "most everything," and Fritz waffles about whether it was called a Mauser Fritz denies noting the time when either the shells or rifle was found and refuses to agree with a 1:22 time for the rifle "about the time" Fritz finishes processing the rifle, TSBD boss Truly appears to describe a missing employee, Fritz shortly thereafter hears of Tippit's shooting; then Fritz leaves for DPD HQ, intending to investigate Oswald and go to the Paine's house in Irving indicated by Truly When Fritz arrives at his office, he is told Oswald shot Tippit - and Fritz immediately names Oswald as a suspect in JFK's death - entirely because he was missing from work Oswald is already at DPD HQ when Fritz returns from the TSBD Fritz sends officers to the Beckley address and to the Paine house in Irving; although Fritz waffles about when he received the Beckley address Before interrogating Oswald for the first time, the Beckley address is known to Fritz 1:40 Oswald arrested 2:15 Oswald at City Hall; shortly thereafter Fritz begins interrogating Oswald 2:20 Fritz says he began interrogating Oswald, after some prompting from WC attorney Ball to match his testimony to that of officers Sims & Boyd Hosty asks Oswald about visiting Mexico City; Fritz says he would not have known about Mexico City WC Attorney Ball tries to get Fritz to say he didn't send officers to Beckley until later - apparently Ball is aware of the problem surrounding when and how the Beckley address is known Fritz says the first Oswald interrogation is only a few minutes long, Fritz then defines a few minutes as 30 to 40 minutes, possibly again sensing a time discrepancy Fritz says Oswald had already been searched at this time (but this contradicts other testimony around finding loaded bullets in Oswald's pocket later in the day) 4:45 Helen Markham picks Oswald out of a lineup 5:05 Oswald is back in Fritz's office for second interrogation, Fritz says Oswald reveals the 1026 address in the first interrogation, Fritz says, possibly contradicting Fritz's earlier testimony WC Attorney Ball suddenly asserts, "You haven't identified these periods of questioning by time," and Fritz responds that he cannot do so WC Attorney Ball asks Fritz to explain an up to 2 hour block between Markham's lineup and the 6:30 lineup for other witnesses; Fritz waffles and says he was too busy juggling office duties to have interrogated Oswald continuously 6:37 Oswald is arraigned; then the time is changed to 7:10 WC Attorney Ball provides 7:50 as the next time stamp, with which Fritz cooperatively agrees - this is the time of Oswald's third lineup in front of the women Davis WC Attorney Ball says the next time stamp is 8:55 for Oswald's fingerprinting; Fritz thinks this is wrong and suggests this is instead the time of a paraffin test Fritz is reminded about Fritz's own report stating that he talked to Wesley Frazier Friday night; Fritz waffles and wants to put this conversation on Sunday morning 12:05am, 23 November 63: Fritz sends Oswald to a jail cell Fritz saw Oswald's pistol a few minutes after Oswald was brought in - but elsewhere in testimony is the pistol brought first to the personnel office? Fritz was not present when the long home-made rifle bag was found, he says - but is this consistent with other testimony from other officers? 1:35am, 23 November 63: Oswald is arraigned for JFK's murder by removing him from the jail ==== versus === 1:10am, 23 November 63: Oswald is checked in to jail for the last time that night, according to jail records; Fritz cannot explain why the 1:35 removal of Oswald for his arraignment is not in jail records 10:25 am, 23NOV63 - Fritz begins interrogating Oswald; 11:33 Oswald back to jail; 12:35 another interrogation with Secret Service agent Kelley Fritz volunteers that the 12:35 time of the Saturday interrogation may be wrong 2:15pm Saturday - another lineup for Oswald 6 pm Saturday - Oswald in Fritz's offices Between 2:15 lineup and 6pm interrogation, Fritz goes NOT go to Neely St apartment even though WC Attorney Ball prompts him to admit this Fritz says 9:30 am on 24NOV63 Oswald is shown the backyard photos, but Dulles and Ball correct him and make this at 6:30PM on the 23rd; Fritz agrees 7:15pm on 23NOV: Oswald returned to jail 9:30am on 24NOV63, Oswald retrieved from jail, interrogated by Fritz with Postal Inspector Holmes, SS agent in charge Forrest Sorrels, FBI agent Bookhout Fritz then says he cannot remember when the first interrogation on 24Nov began WC Attorney Ball asks Fritz: "can we cut it shorter," apparently a blatant suggestion that the length of this interview be officially reduced in time for the record 11:15 first 24NOV63 Oswald interrogation concluded By now, Oswald is meant to be transferred, Fritz says Oswald was a person "dedicated to a cause," Fritz says 3:05pm Fritz talks to Ruby to find out when Ruby decided to kill Oswald WC attorney Ball accuses Fritz of having a problem in his testimonial timeframe and asks where Oswald was between 1235 and 115am on Saturday, 23 NOV63 Fritz says he thinks Oswald was getting fingerprinted at this time - but doesn't this conflict with other testimony having Oswald fingerprinted earlier? Capt Fritz making a deposition in Dallas on July 14, 1964 before WC Attorney Hubert Fritz knows nothing about when Oswald ate while in custody Fritz knows nothing about when Dallas Bar Association Attorney Louis Nichols was in DPD HQ trying to visit Oswald Fritz admits to a "Tempo," which is apparently a time-and-record-keeping protocol used for prisoners in custody; but Fritz denies this was in effect until the first time Oswald is checked into jail - around midnight between 22 and 23 November 1963 Fritz says he did not see Ruby at all around the police station during Oswald's custody, but then Fritz says that if he did see Ruby, he would not recognize him Fritz denies that transferring Oswald to the county jail earlier would be better, even though he admits DPD was crowded and disorganized Postal Inspector Holmes is conversing with Fritz just prior to moving Oswald on the 24th TIMEFRAME CONCERNS Capt Fritz indicates the TSBD was not sealed until as late as 12:58 versus Sawyer who says it was more like 12:45. Don't other officers testify that by the time of Fritz's arrival there is already good witness testimony that the shooter was from a high TSBD floor; if so, why does Fritz claim to start at the ground floor and work his way up? Why doesn't Fritz unhesitatingly agree to the standard 1:22 time for finding the rifle? Isn't there a large gap of missing time between when the rifle is found and when Oswald is officially at DPD headquarters ... from 1:22 to 2:15 - even though Fritz says he goes straight to the station after finding the rifle? Why doesn't Fritz mention talking to Sheriff Decker both on the pavement in front of the TSBD and later at Decker's office, as other officers testify? When is the Beckley address discovered, exactly? Why is there a dispute between WC Attorney Ball and Fritz about when Frazier is interrogated? When and where is Oswald's pistol after he is brought to DPD - in the personnel office as Westbrook says, or with Fritz as Fritz says? Why does other police testimony indicate Fritz is still looking for Oswald when Fritz gets back to DPD while Fritz says he knew Oswald was already in custody? Why does there seem to be many many hours, around 8-10 hours, of Oswald in custody without any record of what Oswald says? Fritz wants to deny any long interrogations of Oswald but there is no strong testimony about what Oswald was doing from 2 to midnight, other than brief lineups. The only information provided in all these hours, we are told, is basic information probably already publicly known about Oswald. Why do Dulles and Ball have to correct Fritz concerning the time of discovery for the backyard photos? What is this meaning of this time gap around 1am when jail records contradict Fritz's testimony? Why does Fritz say Oswald was searched before getting interrogated, but other testimony has Oswald's search and the discovery of bullets much later in the day? Why does WC Attorney Ball seem to get aggressive and irritated with Fritz about his sloppy timekeeping - only to back off and let Fritz get away with vague ambiguous timestamps? Why are there in Fritz's testimony two times when Oswald is fingerprinted - in the afternoon and then after midnight? Although there are time problems all over the place in Fritz's testimony, to me there are three main concerns around time: 1. Why does Fritz hide the meeting(s) with Decker in Dealey Plaza mentioned by other witnesses, and 2. Why is Oswald awake in custody for 10+ hours after the assassination even though Frtiz can provide only a few basic demographic pieces of information that Oswald says while in custody? 3. Why is there this inconsistency around the time of Oswald's search? If the Warren Commission and Fritz are masterful conspirators controlling all aspects of the crime and coverup; this testimony is an utter disaster. There are holes and clues everywhere. Edited April 10, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: what's interesting to me about William H. Patterson is that he drove WC attorney Burt Griffin to the home of ATF agent Frank Ellsworth in April, 1964, to talk about the Dallas Minutemen, the Dallas John Birch Society, and John Thomas Masen. Secret Service Chief Rowley requested that Patterson supply a memo of that meeting. Here's my evidence: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=61499#relPageId=70 My problem today is that I can't find Patterson's memo to Chief Rowley about that meeting. Perhaps you've seen it? Hi Paul, The evidence indicates Washington is alarmed that Griffin may be going off the reservation by collecting evidence outside of FBI supervision. Of particular concern is an April 1964 visit Griffin makes to Dallas ATF man Frank Ellsworth, chaperoned by Secret Service Agent Patterson. Ellsworth is on the record as stating that the Minuteman are the most likely group behind the assassination; additionally, he has informants and evidence that gun nut John Masen and associates in the DFW metroplex have ties to General Edwin Walker. This is a very interesting episode IMO. It tells us a few things: The Dallas FBI office is bending over backwards to deny there is any such thing as Minutemen and the extreme Right in DFW. The Dallas FBI office is absurdly uninterested in John Masen, known weapons trafficker and merchant of illegal guns, going so far as to imply that ATF Agent Frank Ellsworth is wrong to prosecute him and claim that Masen violates no laws in FBI jurisdiction The possibility of an independent investigation in Dallas conducted by Griffin is deeply frightening to Hoover Hoover is pissed off that the Secret Service is facilitating the investigation of JFK's assassination by the Warren Commission attorney Griffin Hoover demands to know what evidence Griffin has found without telling the FBI 1.I wasn't able to find the memo from Patterson you're asking about, but I found a reference to a memo from Patterson regarding Ellsworth that is MISSING from available evidence 2. Apparently Burt Griffin had concerns that the FBI Agent Hosty was withholding evidence (I believe evidence in this thread shows Hosty bent over backwards to protect the Dallas right wing) 3. The Secret Service suspected Hosty had more information than he was sharing 4. Forrest Sorrels has "no memory" 5. The FBI in Dallas was protecting known illegal arms trafficker John T Masen; who coincidentally is one of two places in Dallas selling the type of bullet later claimed to be the "magic bullet" fired from Oswald's rifle: 6. Even though ATF Agent Ellsworth is prosecuting John Masen and has made the FBI well aware of his Minuteman/Walker affiliations, the FBI in Dallas declines to look into this further SOURCES: 1 www.maryferrel.org; RIF search feature 2 Gerald D McKnight, Breach of Trust (2005), p 107 3 Gerald D McKnight, Breach of Trust (2005), p 274 4 Gerald D McKnight, Breach of Trust (2005), p 267 5 Warren Commission HQ File, Section 12, 62-109090 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) Is anyone able to find Commission Exhibit 710 in the Warren Commission publications??? It seems CE 710 was withdrawn. Strange how the DPD shares intelligence about right wing threats to JFK prior to the assassination, yet, Hosty and the Dallas FBI will continually deny there is any such thing as the organized extreme Right in Dallas. 1. General Walker's group is identified as a threat to Kennedy before the assassination. Why is CE 710 missing from the published Warren Report? 2. Why does FBI agent Hosty in 1964 deny the existence of Minutemen or other organized right wing groups in Dallas? 3. Why does FBI agent Hosty claim he cannot find information about Dallas area Minutemen - even though DPD intelligence officer Revill and ATF agent Ellsworth find plenty of information? 4. There is not NOW nor has there EVER BEEN Minutemen activity in the Dallas area, says Dallas FBI to Hoover 5. How is the Dallas Times Herald aware of Minutemen Activity in Dallas in September of 1963, while the FBI denies that there is not now nor has there ever been Minutemen activity in Dallas? 6. FBI HQ notes Dallas refused to investigate the Minutemen despite a nationwide directive to do so: SOURCES 1- The Fourth Decade, Volume 3, Issue 3 2- May 1964 FBI memo. 5 Warren Commission HQ File, Section 12, 62-109090 3- March 1964 Memo from James Hosty. NARA 124-90129-10069 4- February 1964 FBI Memo. FBI files on Edwin Walker, 82-2130 5 CD 320, Secret Service Rowley Memo 24 JAN 1964 6- FBI Oswald HQ file, 82-2130 Edited April 11, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) On 3/26/2018 at 9:32 AM, Paul Trejo said: When the Washington DC Secret Service was preparing to come to Dallas, they followed standard protocol and asked the Dallas FBI if there were any known dangers in Dallas, and whom they should visit and warn before they traveled so far. The official word from James Hosty and Forrest Sorrells was: "there are no dangerous people in Dallas or Fort Worth." 1. Yet a few weeks before Kennedy's visit, the Secret Service and DPD were aware that "something was being planned" by General Edwin Walker for the president: 2....and rumors of a plan to kill Kennedy from the Radical Right 3. The Secret Service hears of no threats from the DPD or its local office but nevertheless reviewed General Walker's Wanted For Treason flyers and was concerned enough to reviews photos of General Walker's attack on Ambassador Stevenson in order to identify right wing extremists at the Trade Mart on 22NOV63: Edited April 11, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Reading all of this makes me wonder whether the only alternative left to Earl Warren was to rubber-stamp the file marked "LHO did it." If fingers had pointed to a faction within the employment of the US government, what would have happened? Look at the nonsense accusations continually aimed at the present president. They have divided the country with words. But if Warren had stated that that the assassination was the work of a faction within the employment of the USA, would that have resulted in another civil war? Having a 'patsy' linked to Cuba and the USSR as a lone nutcase who was not backed by Cuba or the USSR, merely created an internal American tragedy. Was that the result hoped for by Earl Warren? Is that the reason why the US government cannot review its case file until everyone is dead and buried for maybe another 100 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said: Reading all of this makes me wonder whether the only alternative left to Earl Warren was to rubber-stamp the file marked "LHO did it." If fingers had pointed to a faction within the employment of the US government, what would have happened? Look at the nonsense accusations continually aimed at the present president. They have divided the country with words. But if Warren had stated that that the assassination was the work of a faction within the employment of the USA, would that have resulted in another civil war? Having a 'patsy' linked to Cuba and the USSR as a lone nutcase who was not backed by Cuba or the USSR, merely created an internal American tragedy. Was that the result hoped for by Earl Warren? Is that the reason why the US government cannot review its case file until everyone is dead and buried for maybe another 100 years from now? Yes, Mervyn, I think your sentiment is important to consider. As you say, look how today America is more divided than at any time in my life along partisan political dividing lines. The threat of nuclear war is now thankfully diminished somewhat with the end of the Cold War. But still Moscow is prominent in the mix of concerns. I think one of the biggest lessons of this exercise that I'm going through in reviewing the original Warren Commission testimony is that there is little effort to conceal the conspiracy here. The testimony is so blatantly pointing to a conspiracy, that it's obvious there was no ongoing mandate to hide inconvenient evidence. The Warren Commission could have easily not spoken with and not published very damaging testimony like that from policeman Roger Craig. They left the testimony open for everyone to see and then wrote a conclusion that was at odds with the testimony. But it was only the conclusion that the press and the public bother to read. The conclusion of course was blaming the simple and convenient lone nut Oswald. However, they managed to keep the conspiracy blame from falling on the Soviet Union or Castro for the most part, although this was and is still the calling card of the political far right and their explanation for Kennedy's death. In case you haven't thought of this yet I think it's pretty obvious that the authors of the assassination fully intended for Kennedy's death to be blamed on Moscow or Castro. But LBJ, Hoover and the Warren Commission executed a cover-up that blamed only Oswald. In my opinion this is the best evidence that LBJ, Hoover and the Warren Commision are not on the same page as the authors of the assassination. Jason Edited April 12, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) On 4/10/2018 at 4:26 PM, Jason Ward said: TIME STUDY 7 - DPD Capt Will Fritz Can we extrapolate these parts of his testimony to a timeline? <snip> Although there are time problems all over the place in Fritz's testimony, to me there are three main concerns around time: 1. Why does Fritz hide the meeting(s) with Decker in Dealey Plaza mentioned by other witnesses, and 2. Why is Oswald awake in custody for 10+ hours after the assassination even though Frtiz can provide only a few basic demographic pieces of information that Oswald says while in custody? 3. Why is there this inconsistency around the time of Oswald's search? If the Warren Commission and Fritz are masterful conspirators controlling all aspects of the crime and coverup; this testimony is an utter disaster. There are holes and clues everywhere. Jason, DPD Captain Will Fritz supplies his own timeline, and since he was among the last to see Lee Harvey Oswald alive -- and since he kept Oswald in virtual seclusion until the murder of Oswald, I'd like to linger on his WC testimony of Captain Will Fritz. So, I propose this post to be the first of multiple. First, it seems that Will Fritz should pay strict attention to the Dallas Police Radio Log, but he diverges in a few key points -- and I want to compare that divergence with the divergences we see in Deputy Luke Mooney's testimony. Luke Mooney reported to Bill Decker, not to Will Fritz, so that could explain the lack of coordination in their stories. Here is my point: 1.0 Will Fritz tells the WC that at 12:58 PM he and his two assistants, Sims and Boyd, arrive at TSBD. They believe the shooter is still inside, and so they pull out their shotguns and enter the building. This is a Hollywood style entrance scene, like capturing Bonnie and Clyde. * Fritz says they start at the first floor, searching, and proceed floor by floor, upwards towards the 6th floor. * "It wasn't very long until someone" told Fritz that rifle shells were found on the 6th floor. OK, that was Fritz' account. Now let's look at Luke Mooney's timeline. 2.0. Luke Mooney tells the WC that right around 1 PM he was alone on the 6th floor, when he found some empty rifle shells in the SE corner. * So, Mooney stuck his head out the window and hollered down to the street below that he had found these shells, and to send up the "crime lab" photography and fingerprint squad. * Mooney reported that as he stuck his head out of the 6th floor window, he saw Captain Fritz and Sheriff Decker, chatting on the sidewalk below. (That was exactly 12:58 PM, insisted Captain Fritz.) There is, of course, more, but I want to focus for a moment upon this timeline difference. It casts a shadow on the heroic self-portrait of Captain Fritz. We are justified in asking some questions at this point. Why does Fritz paint such a heroic portrait of himself? If Luke Mooney is correct, then Fritz is covering up his personal discussion with Sheriff Decker! If so, then we should see further evidence of this -- and we do. The question that stuck out for you, Jason, was why Fritz failed to mention his meeting with Sheriff Decker over at the County Jail -- which both Boyd and Sims remembered. Furthermore, this would explain why Fritz didn't want to be held to a 1:22 timing of finding the rifle as testified by Deputy Eugene Boone. In my CT, Fritz must muddy his timeline, otherwise, the real sequence of events would become clear -- and his continual discourse with Sheriff Decker would see the light of day. This is just a start. All best, --Paul Edited July 19, 2019 by Paul Trejo Deputy Eugene Boone testified that he looked at his watch when he found the rifle. It was 1:22 exactly, he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Jason, I'd like to linger on his WC testimony of Captain Will Fritz. ... 1.0 Will Fritz tells the WC that at 12:58 PM he and his two assistants, Sims and Boyd, arrive at TSBD. They believe the shooter is still inside, and so they pull out their shotguns and enter the building. This is a Hollywood style entrance scene, like capturing Bonnie and Clyde. * Fritz says they start at the first floor, searching, and proceed floor by floor, upwards towards the 6th floor. * "It wasn't very long until someone" told Fritz that rifle shells were found on the 6th floor. OK, that was Fritz' account. Now let's look at Luke Mooney's timeline. 2.0. Luke Mooney tells the WC that around 1 PM he was alone on the 6th floor, and then at 1:12 he found some empty rifle shells in the SE corner. * So, Mooney stuck his head out the window and hollered down to the street below that he had found these shells, and to send up the "crime lab" photography and fingerprint squad. * Mooney reported that as he stuck his head out of the 6th floor window, he saw Captain Fritz and Sheriff Decker, chatting on the sidewalk below. ... In my CT, Fritz must muddy his timeline, otherwise, the real sequence of events would become clear -- and his continual discourse with Sheriff Decker would see the light of day. \... Paul, The police testimony makes it imminently clear that for the Lone Nut explanation to succeed, Oswald could never see the inside of a courtroom. He could never face trial because the opportunity to cross-examine the police witnesses would end in disaster and accusations of conspiracy against the police. He must not talk to a lawyer because even a brief conversation with someone apart from the Dallas law enforcement hierarchy could reveal enough information to prove the police are liars - and conspirators. For a patsy to work in crime this big, the patsy must be silenced asap. It seems there are several points from other testimony to contrast with Fritz, first, how about I look closer at what Deputy Mooney says? Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: 1. Mooney has to be in the TSBD searching the upper floors pretty soon after the gunfire, according to his testimony. According to Mooney, he and officer Baker should have run into each other or been there at the same time, if my review of the timeline testimony is correct. Mooney says he heard shots, ran up the grassy knoll to the railroad tracks, and wasn't there but "a few seconds" 2. Then, Mooney spends another "few seconds" getting to the TSBD, where he quickly goes in the loading dock entrance, first to an elevator, then to the stairs. 3. Even though Deputy Mooney has no idea why he should come to arrive at a monumental place in US history (the 6th Floor), Mooney knows he should be searching. Searching for what, exactly? Anyway, it seems like a quick search: 4. After for some reason briefly going to the 7th floor, Mooney for reasons he can't explain returns to the 6th floor and explains his next actions this way: 5. voilà! .. Mooney discovers spent shell casings that will implicate Oswald's mail order rifle. Naturally, he wants to tell his boss right away: 6. Mooney says the time is now shortly before 1, or perhaps 1pm. So, what's a generous estimate for Mooney to arrive at step 5 ...from the time he hears shots until the time he calls down to Fritz and Decker? Jason's estimate: 870 foot sprint by 40 y.o. police officer (the average man jogs at about ~8 mph or ~11 feet per second) = 80 Seconds plus "a few seconds" in both the railroad track area and to get to the TSBD = 60 seconds plus ordering a civilian to guard the entrance and get his bearings at TSBD = 2 minutes plus briefly trying the elevator = 3 minutes plus going by stairs directly to the 6th floor = 1 minute plus briefly going up to the 7th floor = 3 minutes plus going back down to the 6th floor and making a beeline to the sniper's nest and waiting shell casings = 3 minutes I say this means Mooney testifies to discovering the shells and seeing Fritz and Decker on the pavement below at somewhere around 12:45. But Fritz pinpoints 12:45 as the moment he was at Parkland getting orders from Curry to go to Dealey Plaza. Fritz says he arrives at TSBD at 12:58, the building is not sealed, and the shooter is believed inside - who Fritz bravely begins searching for with his shotgun in a bottom-to-top search format. Shortly after this, "someone" told him the shell casings were found. It seems to me Mooney has about 15 minutes of missing time when it looks like he is just wandering around in the TSBD, insofar as it takes him until 1 (he says)* to do what should only take about 15 minutes. Then, of course, there is the RADIO LOG which broadcasts found shells at about 1:11. There is about a 15-20 minute discrepancy between Fritz & Mooney, it seems to me. What's the explanation? (* in your post you say Mooney finds shells at 1:12...but does he say this? It reads to me he's saying he found shells at 1 or a little before) The Distance Sheriff Deputy Officer Mooney says he runs immediately after hearing gun shots = 870 feet. Edited April 11, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) On 4/11/2018 at 2:14 PM, Jason Ward said: Paul, ... (* in your post you say Mooney finds shells at 1:12...but does he say this? It reads to me he's saying he found shells at 1 or a little before)... Jason, You're correct here. I had conflated the Dallas Police Radio Log with Mooney's testimony. For now, I will simply admit my error. For now I'll return to the meat of your interesting post on Luke Mooney. All best, --Paul P.S. On 7/19/2019 I corrected my post that Jason corrected, because of the high importance of this timing. Edited July 19, 2019 by Paul Trejo I decided to correct my post above because of the high importance of this timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jason Ward said: Paul, The police testimony makes it imminently clear that for the Lone Nut explanation to succeed, Oswald could never see the inside of a courtroom. He could never face trial because the opportunity to cross-examine the police witnesses would end in disaster and accusations of conspiracy against the police. He must not talk to a lawyer because even a brief conversation with someone apart from the Dallas law enforcement hierarchy could reveal enough information to prove the police are liars - and conspirators. For a patsy to work in crime this big, the patsy must be silenced asap... Jason, This matches my thinking exactly. We have enough evidence of real, conspiratorial power among Dallas Officials to explain not only the death of JFK, but also the death of Lee Harvey Oswald. What amazes me is that it has taken CTers more than a half-century to seriously contemplate this. The chronic flaw of the CIA-did-it CTers is not merely ignorance -- in the words of Kurt Cobain, it's A DENIAL, A DENIAL, A DENIAL, A DENIAL! All best, --Paul Edited April 11, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) Deleted. Heeding Mr Gordon's warning. Edited April 11, 2018 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jason Ward said: Paul ,...It seems there are several points from other testimony to contrast with Fritz, first, how about I look closer at what Deputy Mooney says? Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: 1. Mooney has to be in the TSBD searching the upper floors pretty soon after the gunfire, according to his testimony. According to Mooney, he and officer Baker should have run into each other or been there at the same time, if my review of the timeline testimony is correct. Mooney says he heard shots, ran up the grassy knoll to the railroad tracks, and wasn't there but "a few seconds" 2. Then, Mooney spends another "few seconds" getting to the TSBD, where he quickly goes in the loading dock entrance, first to an elevator, then to the stairs. 3. Even though Deputy Mooney has no idea why he should come to arrive at a monumental place in US history (the 6th Floor), Mooney knows he should be searching. Searching for what, exactly? Anyway, it seems like a quick search: 4. After for some reason briefly going to the 7th floor, Mooney for reasons he can't explain returns to the 6th floor and explains his next actions this way: 5. voilà! .. Mooney discovers spent shell casings that will implicate Oswald's mail order rifle. Naturally, he wants to tell his boss right away: 6. Mooney says the time is now shortly before 1, or perhaps 1pm. So, what's a generous estimate for Mooney to arrive at step 5 ...from the time he hears shots until the time he calls down to Fritz and Decker? Jason's estimate: 870 foot sprint by 40 y.o. police officer (the average man jogs at about ~8 mph or ~11 feet per second) = 80 Seconds plus "a few seconds" in both the railroad track area and to get to the TSBD = 60 seconds plus ordering a civilian to guard the entrance and get his bearings at TSBD = 2 minutes plus briefly trying the elevator = 3 minutes plus going by stairs directly to the 6th floor = 1 minute plus briefly going up to the 7th floor = 3 minutes plus going back down to the 6th floor and making a beeline to the sniper's nest and waiting shell casings = 3 minutes I say this means Mooney testifies to discovering the shells and seeing Fritz and Decker on the pavement below at somewhere around 12:45. But Fritz pinpoints 12:45 as the moment he was at Parkland getting orders from Curry to go to Dealey Plaza. Fritz says he arrives at TSBD at 12:58, the building is not sealed, and the shooter is believed inside - who Fritz bravely begins searching for with his shotgun in a bottom-to-top search format. Shortly after this, "someone" told him the shell casings were found. It seems to me Mooney has about 15 minutes of missing time when it looks like he is just wandering around in the TSBD, insofar as it takes him until 1 (he says)* to do what should only take about 15 minutes. Then, of course, there is the RADIO LOG which broadcasts found shells at about 1:11. There is about a 15-20 minute discrepancy between Fritz & Mooney, it seems to me. What's the explanation? 1. To be very generous to Luke Mooney (so that only the grossest flaws stand out), I will stipulate that his Southern phrase, "a few seconds," is a figure of speech meaning, "a little while." In other words, "I don't really want to talk about timing." * As for Luke Mooney running to the rail tracks (870 feet as you measured it) in "a few seconds", that is exactly what all the other Plaza witness Deputies testified, so I have no problem with it. It was almost a race to see who would get there first. * Now, 870 feet is about 300 yards. The fastest 100 yard dash is 10 seconds. So, even if these boys were super fast in their run, it would take about 30 seconds to run that far. * In any case, less than one minute. That's what Deputy Buddy Walthers said; less than one minute. I'll go with that. * Yet, what was the starting signal? Was it when "the shots rang out?" Or was it when Sheriff Decker gave the order over Dallas Police Radio? The Deputies disagree here. * So, if "a few seconds" really means something like "one minute," then we can be more generous to Luke Mooney. Let's see if this stands. 2. Mooney spends "a few seconds." If he really took "one minute", then he possible walked into the TSBD 2 minutes after JFK was shot. * In this case, he would have missed DPD motorcyle cop Marrion Baker, who timed his encounter with Lee Harvey Oswald to be about 90 seconds after the JFK shots. * Let's let this slide. 3. In my reading, Jason, your strongest question is why Deputy Mooney gets this impulse -- only two minutes after the JFK shooting -- to go to the TSBD 6th floor -- to be all by himself. * This is the uncanny part. He offers no explanation of any kind. The best explanation I can see is that he and his comrades planned that he would plant the rifle and the shells. * Now -- he says he was all by himself. Yet he also says that two Deputies came down the stairs as he was going up the stairs. Down? What did they do there? * I ask because IMHO, the task of the DPD appears to have been: (1) to shoot JFK; and (2) to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald. * Then, the task of the Deputies appears to have been: (3) to obtain Oswald's rifle in the early morning; (4) to plant the rifle and the spent shells on the TSBD 6th floor after the JFK shooting. * If so, then Luke Mooney was one of the core JFK/LHO plotters, along with Bill Decker and Buddy Walthers. 4. Luke Mooney's WC testimony wanders around, and describes Luke himself wandering around -- because what else could he say? He was, moving as fast as he could, to perform an illegal act. He could never account for that time honestly, or with any ready alibi. So we get this "wandering" story. 5. Luke Mooney tells us he saw Fritz and Decker on the street below. * Dallas Police Radio Logs said Fritz and Decker arrived at 12:58 PM. Here is an apparent confirmation. 6. Luke Mooney's timeline for finding the spent shells (1pm) and shouting down this information to Fritz and Decker below, might be correct -- given this: * Will Fritz says that he, Sims and Boyd get out their shotguns and enter the TSBD, on the impression that the shooter is still inside. * Did Luke Mooney shout loud enough? Perhaps Fritz and Decker never heard him! * Because, otherwise, Fritz, Sims and Boyd had no reason to "start searching at the first floor, and move up one floor at a time," as he said. * So -- let's presume that Luke Mooney found the shells around 1pm, shouted down to Fritz and Decker on the street below, as they were getting out of their car, yet nobody heard what Mooney shouted. * That way, Fritz' behavior makes sense. On their way upstairs, Fritz hears from some DPD cop or Deputy that Luke Mooney found spent shells, so he, Boyd and Sims go right up to the 6th floor. * Then, after Will Fritz arrives at the scene and observes the shells with his own eyes, he then orders some DPD cop or Deputy to call the Dallas Police Radio, and give them the status -- the shells were found. This might correspond to 1:11 PM. (Who, exactly, told DPD Radio that the shells were found?) TENTATIVE CONCLUSION: Given all this, I have one issue -- Luke Mooney arrives at the TSBD around 2 minutes after the JFK shooting, and then must account for nearly a half-hour before he finds the rifle shells. * Luke Mooney fails to account for all this time. I cannot let 30 minutes slide. * We are on the same page, so far, Jason. I think that Luke Mooney is a major suspect now -- and clearly he's not working alone. * My next question would be to clarify whether Mooney fooled Captain Fritz, or whether Captain Fritz was anticipating Luke Mooney's report. All best, --Paul Edited April 11, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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