Jump to content
The Education Forum

General Walker, Lee Harvey Oswald and Dallas Officials


Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:
On 3/12/2018 at 1:48 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Lee was denied entry by the USSR.  Then he slashed his wrists.  

 

So tell me, Mr. Trejo. Was Oswald on USSR soil, or was he not, when he attempted suicide? 

If he was on USSR soil, how is that possible if he was denied entry to the USSR?

I know he was denied citizenship. But he was NOT "denied entry" into the USSR. I can go to Mexico on  tourist permit. But if they deny me Mexican citizenship, while I am in Mexico, how is that denying me ENTRY to Mexico? Many non-citizens enter the US every day. Once they are here, they have ENTERED the US. And they do NOT have to become citizens to merely ENTER the country.

So Oswald was NEVER denied entry to the USSR.

Mr. Knight,

Even though Lee Harvey Oswald was on USSR soil at the time his case was being deliberated, he could have been "denied" at any moment.

You are being way, way too literal about it, sir.   You are trying for a cheap shot, and it is unavailing.   Get a better argument.

Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 713
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

He was not denied entry. He entered via Helsinki a few weeks before.

He was never "denied entry"; he was denied citizenship.

TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Be honest for once, Mr. Trejo.

I am not stating anything that is untrue. If you disagree, prove it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been trying to ignore Trejo lately. I sucks up way too much time trying to chase down every falsehood that he leaves around the forum. What really bother me is that his garbage will by lying about the forum FOREVER unless a moderator chooses to affect a damnatio memorae of his presence. I think it is an awe full situation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2018 at 2:38 PM, Jason Ward said:

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 4: Dallas County Sheriff's Deputy Buddy Walthers

EDDY RAYMOND WALTHERS aka “Buddy Walthers” DCSD Deputy

Buddy Walthers: 35, Dallas County deputy sheriff for 9 years.  On 22 November he was watching the motorcade with [Dallas County Sheriff’s wife] Mrs. Decker on Main Street at the sheriff’s office.  Like officers Boone, Mooney, and Weitzman, Walthers immediately runs across Dealey Plaza and jumps the retaining wall after he hears 3 shots.  He says there are “a lot of people just rummaging” around by the train tracks and parking lot...

Jason,

Thanks for all your hard work summarizing and analyzing the WC testimony of Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers regarding his behavior on 11/22/1963 at Dealey Plaza.  Here are my remarks:

1. Like Deputies Boone, Mooney, and Weitzman, Buddy Walthers is loitering around his place of employment at the corner of Main and Houston, namely, the Dallas County Jailhouse.  

2.  As soon as they hear shots fired at the Grassy Knoll, they immediately run across Dealey Plaza and in less than half a minute, they all jump the wall there.  

3.  He claims he sees no clues of any sniper there in that County parking lot behind the picket fence. 

4.  Walthers then says he went to large park island between Elm and Main to seek cartridge shells.  

4.1.  In an interesting sidebar, Deputy Roger Craig will testify to the WC that he saw Buddy pick up a shell there, and put it in his pocket.

4.2.  It is riveting to me that Buddy would even suggest the possibility of "blanks or something” because of the story allegedly told by Senator John Tower to Sheriff Bill Decker, Gary Wean and Audie Murphy, about an "original" JFK plot to include "only blanks."

5.  James Tague walks up to Buddy Walthers and shows him his wounded cheek.   Buddy then walks to the triple underpass bridge. 

6.  Based on his analysis of the trajectory of the fragment that hit James Tague, Deputy Walthers concluded, "it was almost obvious that it...came from this building" referring to the TSBD.  

6.1.  Here are the words of Deputy Walthers to Deputy Alan Sweatt:

6.2. "I said, 'From the looks of it, it is probably going to be in this School Book Building,' and immediately then everybody started surrounding the School Book Building." 

7.  Next, in the confusion (to be generous) Walthers hears about an Oak Cliff shooting.  

7.1. He decides on his own (without asking the Sheriff) to abandon Dealey Plaza and hurry to Oak Cliff, leading two other Deputies.

7.2.  Walthers joins the manhunt in Oak Cliff for Tippit's murderer.  A false alarm at a library, then a massive convergence at the Texas Theater.

8.  From the balcony, Walthers watches Lee Harvey Oswald being arrested down below.

9.  His job now done, Walthers reports to Sheriff Bill Decker back at the County Jailhouse for further orders.   All in a day's work.

10.  Sheriff Decker hands Deputy Walthers the address of Ruth Paine, where allegedly Oswald had been living with Mrs. Paine. 

11.  Along with Deputy Weatherford, they meet DPD officers Adamcik and Rose. 

11.1.  Allegedly, Walthers says that Ruth Paine exclaims, “Come on in, we’ve been expecting you.”

11.2.  This is a bizarre thing to claim -- Ruth Paine denied saying these words.

12.  Buddy Walthers gives an alternative account of discovering the blanket roll for Oswald's rifle.   

12.1.  Marina Oswald gives the first account -- she told the Dallas Police where to look.  It was a Dallas policeman -- not Buddy Walthers, who picked up the blanket.

12.2.  That Dallas policeman will give WC testimony that Marina's account is correct.

12.3.  Why does Buddy Walthers seek to make himself the hero of the JFK story?  It's interesting to me.

13.  Then Buddy Walthers tells one of the singular fabrications of all WC testimony.  He claims that he found "6 or 7 metal filing cabinets full of the names of Castro supporters" in Ruth Paine's garage, and that he placed these in the trunk of his car.

13.1.  Actually, nobody else claims to have seen the alleged "filing cabinents."   They were never photographed -- they were never seen by the DPD, the FBI, the Secret Service or *anybody*.  

13.2.  These alleged "filing cabinets" were never itemized in any official list of property retrieved from Ruth Paine's posessions.

13.3.  Why would Buddy Walthers make a false claim that is so easily disproved by all other Washington DC and Dallas authorities?  Yet the urban myth persists down to this very day.

14.  Buddy Walther's claim that Marina Oswald told him anything is disproved by the fact that Marina Oswald could not speak English, and Buddy Walthers could not speak Russian.

14.1.  Even allowing the implication that Ruth Paine interpreted between Marina and Buddy, even then, Buddy's story contradicts the story of Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes.

14.2.  Harry Holmes claims that it was he himself, and nobody else, who obtained the Oak Cliff rooming house address of Lee Harvey Oswald, from Oswald's November 1st PO Box application, and he called it into the Lawmen.

15.  Michael Paine never, ever believed or claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a "committed Communist," but always maintained -- to everybody including the WC attorneys -- that Oswald was a "Phony Communist."

15.1.  Again, Buddy Walthers seems to act "entitled" to make his opinion into fact, no matter what anybody else says.  He is the "leader" in his own mind.

16.  Buddy Walthers then claims that it was he himself who brought "everyone" at Ruth Paine's house to Captain Fritz' office.   Again, he is the "leader" in his own mind.

17.  Regarding finding a spent bullet -- Walthers denies it -- but as we will later see, Deputy Roger Craig affirms it.

18.  Buddy Walthers claims to know that the “last shot” nicked Tague.  Again -- Buddy Walthers seems to claim to know "everything."  But what is the source for his "authority" in the JFK murder?  

19.  Could it possibly be that Walthers really *was* an authority in the case, but on more *secret* details?

19.1.  If so, then Walthers is letting his "slip" show.

20. Walthers ends his WC testimony by apologizing for being “a little evasive.” 

20.1.  Again, Walthers is letting his "slip" show.

21.  As to your CONCERNS, Jason: 

21.1.  Walthers is in multiple crucial places on 11/22/1963: 
21.1.1.  Behind the Grassy Knoll
21.1.2.  At the triple underpass curb with James Tague, 
21.1.3.  Telling Deputy Sweatt that the shots came from the TSBD -- which started cops going there.
21.1.4.  Among the first seeking Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff
21.1.5.  In the Texas Theater, observing Oswald being arrested
21.1.6.  At Ruth Paine's garage.

21.2.  The library false alarm is unimportant, IMHO.

21.3. Dealey Plaza is virtually *owned* by Dallas Deputies.  
21.3.1.  They worked daily at Main and Houston.  
21.3.2.  They parked daily behind the Grassy Knoll.

21.4.  Sheriff Decker got the address of Ruth Paine from TSBD supervisor Roy Truly, because that is the address that LHO gave to the TSBD on his job application. 

21.5.  There is no way that Marina volunteered anything to Buddy Walthers -- he didn't speak Russian.  
21.5.1.  Even if Ruth Paine was the one who gave Walthers a phone number -- one must ask Harry Holmes why he was so detailed in explaining how he himself discovered that address.

21.6.  We cannot get confirmation from Bill Decker that he gave Buddy Walthers the address for Oswald in Oak Cliff, because Bill Decker chooses to speak almost entirely about Jack Ruby's case.

21.7.  The Deputies evidently coordinated their stories -- or they coordinated their run to the Grassy Knoll.   I don't know which.  

21.8.  How long can one search the Grassy Knoll when all that scores of people find there are Dallas Police Officers?  
21.8.1.  Then it's a matter of searching all the cars.  But these are mostly Dallas Deputy cars.   
21.8.2. Anyway, dozens of Dallas Police are already searching these cars -- finding nothing.
21.8.3.  How long can you do this search?  3 minutes?  5 minutes?  
21.8.4.  But Buddy is a Leader, and he leaves the "drudgery" work to subordinates.  He moves on.

21.9.  The fact that Buddy Walther's even uses the word "blanks" suggests to me the story allegedly told by Senator John Tower about a "false flag" plan on JFK.

21.10.  Walther's claim to be the first to point out the TSBD -- while everybody else is just wandering around aimlessly -- is an important factor in the collective Dallas Deputy story.  

21.10.1.  Let's keep our finger here, and return to it shortly.

21.11.  For Buddy Walthers to claim discovery of the Oswald rifle blanket is sheer mendacity and arrogance.   It contradicts all other accounts.

21.11.1.   Let's also keep our finger here, and return to it shortly.   I think it is related to his fabrication about "six or seven metal filing cabinets" in Ruth Paine's garage.

21.12.  I'm very encouraged that you see the WC testimony of Buddy Walthers very closely to the way that I see it.  In my past 6 years on this Forum, this is a first in my experience.   

All best,
--Paul

Edited by Paul Trejo
Postal Inspector not Postmaster
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

....

12.  Buddy Walthers gives an alternative account of discovering the blanket roll for Oswald's rifle.   

12.1.  Marina Oswald gives the first account -- she told the Dallas Police where to look.  It was a Dallas policeman -- not Buddy Walthers, who picked up the blanket.

12.2.  That Dallas policeman will give WC testimony that Marina's account is correct.

12.3.  Why does Buddy Walthers seek to make himself the hero of the JFK story?  It's interesting to me.

...

 

Here is Buddy Walthers' testimony to the Warren Commission where he says he found the blanket, complete with rifle indentation.  The second document is a DPD memo titled "G.F. Rose - R.S. Stovall - J.P. Adamcik Report on Investigation of the President's Murder."  

Walthers says he found the blanket at Ruth Paine's house along with a barrel of pro-Castro leaflets and 6-7 file cabinets.  The DPD report says Marina directed them to the garage and pointed out the blanket, but does not mention Walthers.

 

Walthers_says_he_found_the_blanket_and_g

 

v.


Paine_house_search_blanket_roll_by_Adamc

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=41&search=testimony_walthers#relPageId=558&tab=page

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337959/m1/3/?q=walthers

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Who discovered the rifle in the sixth floor of the TSBD?   

Dallas County Deputy Sheriff Boone says he did.  An undated, unsigned rough draft report found in DPD archives says it was Constable Seymour Weitzman.

Boone_says_he_discovered_the_rifle.png


DPD_says_Weitzman_found_the_rifle.png

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39&search=eugene_boone#relPageId=301&tab=page

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337811/m1/3/?q=walthers

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Who discovered the rifle in the sixth floor of the TSBD?   

Dallas County Deputy Sheriff Boone says he did.  An undated, unsigned rough draft report found in DPD archives says it was Constable Seymour Weitzman.

Jason,

Noticing the contradiction, the Warren Commission asked Seymour Weitzman about it.   He said it this way -- I paraphrase -- 'I found it first, and I whispered it softly to Deputy Boone, who quickly shouted out to the whole floor that he found it, and so he got the credit.  I would have received the credit if I had shouted it out, but I guess that's what I failed to do.   History will say that Boone found it.'

I personally find Weitzman's explanation to be credible.   It is very human; that's how some grownups behave.   I don't think this is an issue. 

The real issue, IMHO, is that the rifle was found a full 45 minutes after the JFK assassination.   Even after eye-witnesses outside the TSBD building had told DPD Police within seconds of the JFK Assassination, that they saw men with guns on the upper floors of the TSBD building -- it still took the DPD a full 45 minutes to find the rifle.

So the question that arises inside my mind is this -- when was the rifle artificially planted there?  Was it at the same time that Deputy Mooney artificially planted the shell casings there?    Was it Deputy Mooney who artificially planted the rifle there?

All best,
--Paul

Edited by Paul Trejo
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Here's where we can see that the DPD realized they needed an explanation for how they managed to find Ruth Paine's address.   

  • The first version of this DPD memo states TSBD manager Truly proactively told DPD Captain Fritz that Oswald was a missing employee of the TSBD.  
  • The second version of the memo states that Truly also provided Fritz with Ruth Paine's address.

DPD memo version 1 - Truly provides Fritz with Oswald's name only:

Fritz_given_only_LHOs_name_by_Truely.png

 

DPD memo version 2 - Truly provides Fritz with Oswald's name and Ruth Paine's address:
Truly_gives_Fritz_LHO_name_and_address.p

 

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337811/m1/3/?q=walthers

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340592/m1/5/?q=walthers

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Here's where we can see that the DPD realized they needed an explanation for how they managed to find Ruth Paine's address.   

  • The first version of this DPD memo states TSBD manager Truly proactively told DPD Captain Fritz that Oswald was a missing employee of the TSBD.  
  • The second version of the memo states that Truly also provided Fritz with Ruth Paine's address.

DPD memo version 1 - Truly provides Fritz with Oswald's name only:

DPD memo version 2 - Truly provides Fritz with Oswald's name and Ruth Paine's address:

 

Jason,

Although you might be onto something there -- I don't see it.  I currently think this matters little.    It's a matter of time compression on a minor point.  The main point is that Roy Truly was the source of Lee Harvey Oswald's name and address.    That the name came first, and then the address came second, is a minor point.

It is eminently plausible that Roy Truly was the source of both.  His testimony confirms it -- but it goes like this.   First, Roy Truly told DPD Chief Lumpkin that Oswald was missing, and Lumpkin asked for details to tell Captain Fritz up on the 6th floor.   Then Roy Truly called the TSBD office of records in another building -- and got the address on Oswald's job application.

Then Roy Truly was escorted upstairs by Chief Lumpkin, and told Captain Fritz both bits of data at the same time.

I see no problem with this much.   There may be other problems -- but not with the source of this data.   Ruth Paine's address was certainly on LHO's job application.  That's history.

All best,
--Paul

Edited by Paul Trejo
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Jason,

Although you might be onto something there -- I don't see it.  I currently think this matters little.    It's a matter of time compression on a minor point.  The main point is that Roy Truly was the source of Lee Harvey Oswald's name and address.    That the name came first, and then the address came second, is a minor point.

It is eminently plausible that Roy Truly was the source of both.  His testimony confirms it -- but it goes like this.   First, Roy Truly told DPD Chief Lumpkin that Oswald was missing, and Lumpkin asked for details to tell Captain Fritz up on the 6th floor.   Then Roy Truly called the TSBD office of records in another building -- and got the address on Oswald's job application.

Then Roy Truly was escorted upstairs by Chief Lumpkin, and told Captain Fritz both bits of data at the same time.

I see no problem with this much.   There may be other problems -- but not with the source of this data.   Ruth Paine's address was certainly on LHO's job application.  That's history.

All best,
--Paul

 

The story of how Truly determines Oswald is missing, why he fixates on Oswald, and how the DPD acquire Ruth Paine's address leaves some room for doubt, IMO.   

You don't have to believe Truly was in on the assassination conspiracy to wonder if he nevertheless was less than sincere in explaining why Oswald was singled out and why he helped the DPD explain where they found Paine's address.   Truly cannot explain why he decides Oswald is missing; he further suggests he cannot correctly describe Oswald (so how would he know he was missing???).

Truly's helpful initiation of Oswald into an object of suspicion fits nicely with the overall story, as soon after Oswald's name is mentioned, the DPD narrative says Fritz hears of Tippit's shooting. The progressive story of how Oswald is captured proceeds in neat formulaic style, A + B + C = D.   Truly provides point A, the transformation of Oswald from mere bystander into suspect.

  All this is a point of concern, it's not necessarily evidence of collusion or deception.

...

1. 22NOV63 DPD case report filed by Capt. Fritz notes defendant was identified by Fritz in the TSBD:

DPD_Fritz_report.png

 

2. Conspiratorial or not, Truly is the critical node ensuring Oswald is a suspect right away.  From WC staff memo 2 March 1964:

mar64_WC_memo_how_oswald_became_a_suspec

3. WC Direct testimony of Truly:

Truly_cannot_explain_why_he_says_LHO_is_<<<<===Truly cannot give an answer.

...

Truly_volunteers_a_man_missing_LHO.png

 

Truly_gives_address_to_Fritz.png

Truly_calls_Aiken_for_Oswalds_address.pn

Truly_only_gives_LHOs_address.png

 

4. TSBD superintendant Truly is not a JFK fan:

Truly_niggers1.png  From the Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 11, No. 2, July 2007.

Truly_nigges2.png        .....citing William Manchester's The Death of a President (1967), p. 162.


 

5. Oswald's application to the TSBD:

LHO_application_to_TSBD.png






 

Edited by Jason Ward
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

...

WC testimony of Buddy Walthers

...

Ok, Paul, I know you're wanting to move on from my Roy Truly discussion....anyway...I can't find much evidence in Buddy Walther's testimony that matches up in detail with these well known photos by Jim Murray and William Allen.  Dallas County Sheriff's Deputy Buddy Walthers has the black hat and a cigarette in his mouth - standing in the grassy area between Elm and Main street.  IIRC, Walthers admits to being there, but doesn't say much about the activity and people shown in these photos, although this activity is I presume what Liebeler is asking about when Walthers denies picking up a bullet.

Wlathers_finds_slug_murray_and_allen_pho

Walthers_finds_lug_murray_and_alle_photo

 

Walters_murray_and_allen_photo_group.jpg note time on Hertz sign



 

Edited by Jason Ward
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

 

The story of how Truly determines Oswald is missing, why he fixates on Oswald, and how the DPD acquire Ruth Paine's address leaves some room for doubt, IMO.   

You don't have to believe Truly was in on the assassination conspiracy to wonder if he nevertheless was less than sincere in explaining why Oswald was singled out and why he helped the DPD explain where they found Paine's address.   Truly cannot explain why he decides Oswald is missing; he further suggests he cannot correctly describe Oswald (so how would he know he was missing???).

Truly's helpful initiation of Oswald into an object of suspicion fits nicely with the overall story, as soon after Oswald's name is mentioned, the DPD narrative says Fritz hears of Tippit's shooting. The progressive story of how Oswald is captured proceeds in neat formulaic style, A + B + C = D.   Truly provides point A, the transformation of Oswald from mere bystander into suspect.

  All this is a point of concern, it's not necessarily evidence of collusion or deception.

...

1. 22NOV63 DPD case report filed by Capt. Fritz notes defendant was identified by Fritz in the TSBD:

DPD_Fritz_report.png

 

2. Conspiratorial or not, Truly is the critical node ensuring Oswald is a suspect right away.  From WC staff memo 2 March 1964:

mar64_WC_memo_how_oswald_became_a_suspec

3. WC Direct testimony of Truly:

Truly_cannot_explain_why_he_says_LHO_is_<<<<===Truly cannot give an answer.

...

Truly_volunteers_a_man_missing_LHO.png

 

Truly_gives_address_to_Fritz.png

Truly_calls_Aiken_for_Oswalds_address.pn

Truly_only_gives_LHOs_address.png

 

4. TSBD superintendant Truly is not a JFK fan:

Truly_niggers1.png  From the Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 11, No. 2, July 2007.

Truly_nigges2.png        .....citing William Manchester's The Death of a President (1967), p. 162.


 

5. Oswald's application to the TSBD:

LHO_application_to_TSBD.png






 

Jason,

Many thanks for your work in going through and posting all of this information. 

Now, I just need to find the time to go through and digest it all.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 7:59 AM, Paul Trejo said:

Jason,

You've got a fairly complete list here -- and obviously it's too large, at 91 names.   So, let's whittle it down.

...

Sheriff Bill Decker

...

 

Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 5: Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker

Sheriff Bill Decker, age 66:

  • 14 years experience as sheriff of Dallas County; with previous experience as a deputy and constable since 1924
  • Testifies primary job is jailer of those serving sentences or those awaiting trial unable to post bond
  • Oddly admits to losing 5 prisoners a few days ago due to staff incompetence
  • Oswald was such a "hot piece of merchandise" that the DPD wanted to transfer him themselves versus the usual custom that the Sheriff's Department handles the transfer
  • "this thing," the assassination, takes places conveniently across the street from Decker's office, meaning most witnesses are just walked over to give a statement, according to Decker
  • Decker says "my officers" located the gun and ammunition in the TSBD
  • Suggests Fritz arrived after gun and ammunition found - is this consistent with Boone, Mooney, and Weitzman?
  • Decker is quickly allowed to direct the narrative away from Dealey Plaza and discuss the transfer of Oswald
  • Multiple discussions between Decker and DPD Capt Fritz take place; Fritz is making all the decisions about the transfer
  • Relates an odd incident where international press were briefly locked in a room, which caused them to panic
  • Asks Warren Commission if and when they want to interview Ruby
  • Insists it's no problem getting a court order to move Ruby
  • Admits FBI agent Newsom warned the sheriff's department that Oswald was going to get killed
  • Testimony ends with discussion of previously signed affidavits and other records already submitted to the WC

 

CONCERNS:

  1. The US president has been shot and the county sheriff is not asked about this crime.
  2. Apart from investigative duties; Decker is an assassination witness.  Why is he not asked where the shots came from and other details he remembered in Dealey Plaza?
  3. Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker is not questioned for further details around his activity at Parkland Hospital, nor the activities of his department on 22 November 1963 at the Texas Theater and Ruth Paine's house.
  4. What orders did Sheriff Bill Decker give his staff at the time of the assassination?  At the time of Oswald's pursuit?  
  5. What are the details surrounding sheriff department discovery of the weapon and shell casings?
  6. This witness was the least examined of any so far; he is allowed to simply tell his story and is asked only a few details about what arrangements were made for transferring Ruby. The death of Kennedy is completely ignored.

 

 

 

Edited by Jason Ward
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Ok, Paul,

...these well known photos by Jim Murray and William Allen. 

Dallas County Sheriff's Deputy Buddy Walthers has the black hat and a cigarette in his mouth - standing in the grassy area between Elm and Main street. 

IIRC, Walthers admits to being there, but doesn't say much about the activity and people shown in these photos, although this activity is I presume what Liebeler is asking about when Walthers denies picking up a bullet.

   note time on Hertz sign

Jason,

Good description of these photos.  I think you are 100% right.  These photos lead to Liebeler's questions.    They don't go far in Walthers' WC testimony.  Also, the time of the Hertz sign is crucial to our timeline.   I read it as 12:40 pm.

HOWEVER -- please let me add one more name to my Dallas Deputies list.  The WC testimony of Deputy Roger Craig is a monkey wrench thrown into the mix.   Please add him to your able analyses of Dallas Deputy WC testimony.

Also -- may I please ask.

After you have gone through the Dallas Deputies -- there are not very many -- please move on to the Dallas Police -- there are several.   To make this easier, and to stay focused on the material of the Dallas Deputies -- I ask that you first isolate only those Dallas Police who were present at Dealey Plaza.

Here is my Dallas Police List.   There were 43 at the Dealey Plaza Scene.   

DPD HQ and Patrolmen (9):

Jesse Curry (Chief), J. Herbert Sawyer (Inspector), Don Ables (jail clerk), Earle Brown, Richard Clark (Vice), J.W. Foster, Gerald Henslee (radio dispatcher), W.E. Perry (Vice), J.C. White.

 

DPD Homicide Detectives (15):

Will Fritz (Captain), T.L. Baker (Lieutenant), John Adamcik, Elmer Boyd, C.W. Brown, Bob Carroll, C.N. Dhority, Marvin Johnson, James Leavelle, Henry Moore, Walter Potts, Guy Rose, Richard Sims, Richard Stovall, F.M. Turner.

 

DPD Traffic and Accident – Motorcycle (8):

Perdue Lawrence (Captain), Marrion Baker, E.D. Brewer, Bobby Hargis, Clyde Haygood, Thomas Hutson, Billy Martin, Joe Murphy.                         

 

DPD Traffic and Accident – Foot Patrol (6):

D.V. Harkness (Sergeant), Welcome Barnett, Ray Hawkins, Edgar Smith, Joe Smith, C.T. Walker.          

 

DPD ID Detectives (3):

J.C. Day (Lieutenant), Robert Studebaker, J.B. Hicks.

 

DPD Personnel Department (2):

W.R. Westbrook (Captain), Gerald Hill (Sergeant) 

This list of 43 names is still nearly half of your list of 91 names, and so it still remains too large of a list.  I propose to whittle it down to those who went inside or to the doors of the TSBD building before the rifle was found at 1:15pm CST.

In my quick review, that limits it to those marked in purple above.   Here's my new list of 14 Dallas Police employees -- and I think this is a manageable number:

DPD HQ and Patrolmen (1):

J. Herbert Sawyer (Inspector) 

 

DPD Homicide Detectives (6):

Will Fritz (Captain), Elmer Boyd, C.W. Brown, Bob CarrollMarvin JohnsonRichard Sims.

 

DPD Traffic and Accident – Motorcycle (2):

Marrion BakerThomas Hutson.                         

 

DPD Traffic and Accident – Foot Patrol (3):

D.V. Harkness (Sergeant), Welcome Barnett, Joe Smith.          

 

DPD Personnel Department (2):

W.R. Westbrook (Captain), Gerald Hill (Sergeant) 

To summarize  my request, Jason -- may we please place these 14, plus Deputy Roger Craig, highest in the queue at this time?   If so, please place Deputy Craig next.

All best,
--Paul

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos
Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 9:53 PM, Jason Ward said:

The story of how Truly determines Oswald is missing, why he fixates on Oswald, and how the DPD acquire Ruth Paine's address leaves some room for doubt, IMO.   

You don't have to believe Truly was in on the assassination conspiracy to wonder if he nevertheless was less than sincere in explaining why Oswald was singled out and why he helped the DPD explain where they found Paine's address.   Truly cannot explain why he decides Oswald is missing; he further suggests he cannot correctly describe Oswald (so how would he know he was missing???).

Truly's helpful initiation of Oswald into an object of suspicion fits nicely with the overall story, as soon after Oswald's name is mentioned, the DPD narrative says Fritz hears of Tippit's shooting. The progressive story of how Oswald is captured proceeds in neat formulaic style, A + B + C = D.   Truly provides point A, the transformation of Oswald from mere bystander into suspect.

  All this is a point f concern, it's not necessarily evidence of collusion or deception.

1. 22NOV63 DPD case report filed by Capt. Fritz notes defendant was identified by Fritz in the TSBD:

2. Conspiratorial or not, Truly is the critical node ensuring Oswald is a suspect right away.  From WC staff memo 2 March 1964:

3. WC Direct testimony of Truly:

<<<<===Truly cannot give an answer.

4. TSBD superintendant Truly is not a JFK fan:

  From the Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 11, No. 2, July 2007.

        .....citing William Manchester's The Death of a President (1967), p. 162.

5. Oswald's application to the TSBD: 

The story of how Truly determines Oswald is missing, why he fixates on Oswald, and how the DPD acquire Ruth Paine's address leaves some room for doubt, IMO.   

You don't have to believe Truly was in on the assassination conspiracy to wonder if he nevertheless was less than sincere in explaining why Oswald was singled out and why he helped the DPD explain where they found Paine's address.   Truly cannot explain why he decides Oswald is missing; he further suggests he cannot correctly describe Oswald (so how would he know he was missing???).

Truly's helpful initiation of Oswald into an object of suspicion fits nicely with the overall story, as soon after Oswald's name is mentioned, the DPD narrative says Fritz hears of Tippit's shooting. The progressive story of how Oswald is captured proceeds in neat formulaic style, A + B + C = D.   Truly provides point A, the transformation of Oswald from mere bystander into suspect.

  All this is a point f concern, it's not necessarily evidence of collusion or deception.

1. 22NOV63 DPD case report filed by Capt. Fritz notes defendant was identified by Fritz in the TSBD:

2. Conspiratorial or not, Truly is the critical node ensuring Oswald is a suspect right away.  From WC staff memo 2 March 1964:

3. WC Direct testimony of Truly:

<<<<===Truly cannot give an answer.

4. TSBD superintendant Truly is not a JFK fan:

  From the Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 11, No. 2, July 2007.

        .....citing William Manchester's The Death of a President (1967), p. 162.

5. Oswald's application to the TSBD: 

Jason,

Although I'm a CTer, I tend to be extremely cautious before linking anybody with the JFK assassination.   So, I may be mistaken about Roy Truly, but in my reading, his is clueless.

I have an alternate reading of the facts that you cited for Roy Truly in his fixation on Lee Harvey Oswald as a susicious person of interest in the JFK Assassination.  Truly was sincere, IMHO, and this is how it happened. 

1.  Within one minute of the JFK Assassination, motorcycle cop Marrion Baker sped to the TSBD.  In the opinion of Baker, the shooter was actually on top of the roof.  He thought he saw this from his position in the JFK parade, from the corner of Main and Houston streets, riding his motorcycle, and looking up at the TSBD when the shots rang out.  He saw the pigeons fly away, and he was certain that the shooter was on top of the roof.   So he sped there, and he ran inside. 

2..  Roy Truly followed him, because Roy was in charge.  

3.  Baker demanded the elevator to the roof. Roy Truly tried to get the elevator, but it was not responding.  So he showed Baker to the stairs. They both ran up the stairs.  Allegedly they met Lee Harvey Oswald on their way upstairs.   Baker estimates meeting Oswald less than 2 minutes after the JFK Assassination. 

4.  When they finally got to the roof, Roy Truly argued with Officer Baker, insisting that the shots came from the Grassy Knoll.   "No!" insisted Baker -- they came from the roof, so be careful, because the shooter is probably here, and has a rifle!

5.  They searched the roof thoroughly.  They searched all around the perimeter.   Roy Truly pointed down to the west side of the TSBD, and said, "Look at all those people gathered near the Grassy Knoll!  They know what happened!"  "No!" insisted Baker!  Keep looking here, and be careful!

6.  On the east side of the TSBD was a fire escape.   Roy Truly said he worried that the shooter might have rushed down the fire escape.  (Perhaps the shooter left his rifle).

7.  They searched the tool shed on top of the roof.   Finally Baker was convinced that the shooter had escaped -- they were too slow.  He gave up.

8.  As they headed back down the stairs, they met DPD Chief Lumpkin coming up the stairs.  This should give a timeline of their search on the roof.

9.  By this time, then, Roy Truly says that the TSBD was "full" of DPD cops.  Cops everywhere, and each one was shouting orders to civilians.   So, it was probably 12:45 by now, or thereabouts.

10.  Some of those DPD officers were rounding up Negroes who worked at the TSBD.  They were all suspects, as far as they were concerned -- probably Communists.

11.  When Roy Truly saw that, he got involved personally, because these were all his book pickers -- they all worked for him.

12.  The DPD cops ordered Roy Truly to account for all his men.  That was when Roy noticed that two of his men were missing.

13.  However -- although two were missing, one was accounted for -- all the workers knew where he was, and could vouch for that.  However, NOBODY COULD VOUCH FOR LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

14.  This was partly because the workers did not know Lee very well, and did not know where Lee went for lunch, when he happened to leave the building for lunch.

15. So, that was when Roy Truly told the DPD cops -- and Chief Lumpkin -- that all were accounted for except Lee Harvey Oswald.

16.  That was when Chief Lumpkin said they should report that to Captain Fritz, once Roy Truly got Oswald's contact information.

17.   So, Roy called TSBD records and got Lee's contact info, and wrote it down, and he and Lumpkin went upstairs and Roy gave it to Captain Fritz.

So, as far as I can see, Jason, all of this was ordinary and not suspicious.   Roy Truly was not a conspirator, as far as I can see today.

Thanks for all your analysis.

All best,
--Paul

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Paul Trejo changed the title to General Walker, Lee Harvey Oswald and Dallas Officials

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...