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The Future of the Education Forum


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1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

As a long-time member, and an occasional participant in other forums. it's clear to me that this forum remains the most civil forum on the assassination, in which a multitude of views are presented. Many of the other forums have given up, and are little more than excuses for people to yell at each other.

Long may it run.

I know I should let dead dogs lie and moderation is a double edged sword.  But I can't help think back on years I read the forum before joining and trying to put it all in perspective.  The  forum did outlast Mc Adams though if I remember right he was banned previously.  Then again Jim D was banned for a while too.  FWIW, some wont believe this is not brown nosing but I Hate that myself, I never blamed him for responding in kind, IMHO.  Somebody(s) are assaulting your credibility and intelligence and you don't?

Pat, you used to post on Jeff Morley's JFK Facts website, as did Jim some.  While Jeff moderated it for several years there was some relevant informative conversation there.  Then he hired Tom what was his name?  Who had also been banned from here if I remember right again.  It's never been the same since.  

Moderation is a delicate and difficult but important matter.  Thanks again to those who attempt it.  I know I've over stepped the bounds of common courtesy in anger before.  Thank you for your tolerance. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=long+may+you+run&view=detail&mid=A2A58D54DEC839E2A4DDA2A58D54DEC839E2A4DD&FORM=VIRE

  

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1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

I know I should let dead dogs lie and moderation is a double edged sword.  But I can't help think back on years I read the forum before joining and trying to put it all in perspective.  The  forum did outlast Mc Adams though if I remember right he was banned previously.  Then again Jim D was banned for a while too.  FWIW, some wont believe this is not brown nosing but I Hate that myself, I never blamed him for responding in kind, IMHO.  Somebody(s) are assaulting your credibility and intelligence and you don't?

Pat, you used to post on Jeff Morley's JFK Facts website, as did Jim some.  While Jeff moderated it for several years there was some relevant informative conversation there.  Then he hired Tom what was his name?  Who had also been banned from here if I remember right again.  It's never been the same since.  

Moderation is a delicate and difficult but important matter.  Thanks again to those who attempt it.  I know I've over stepped the bounds of common courtesy in anger before.  Thank you for your tolerance. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=long+may+you+run&view=detail&mid=A2A58D54DEC839E2A4DDA2A58D54DEC839E2A4DD&FORM=VIRE

  

I should have been more clear in my post. The current make-up of this forum is about as civil a group as I have seen. A few people have been rude to each other. I suspect they all will get over it.

The level of nastiness is currently a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10, IMO. This forum has at times been as high as a 7, I would say. Other forums on which I've posted, the JFK assassination forum, all.assassination.jfk, alt.conspiracy.jfk, JFKfacts, the IMDB discussion forum for the film JFK, and numerous discussions on Amazon and youtube, have ranged between 5 and 10. There was at one time a character on alt.assassination.jfk, who used to send me emails telling me that my family was destined to burn in hell. There was another guy on youtube who was always trying to get me out in the hills so he could show me what a good shot he was, which my family took as a threat.

In sum, then, the bad behavior currently on this forum is minor in comparison to what we've seen on this forum in the past, and what I've seen elsewhere.

P.S. McAdams was never a member of this forum.

 

Edited by Pat Speer
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On 3/19/2018 at 7:27 AM, James R Gordon said:

This morning I noted that there were 762 reads of the thread and 13 responses - and that included the multiple responses by two members who used the thread to continue their own discussions. It would appear that the majority of members who read the thread do not share my views and have ignored the thread. In all good conscience I cannot accept remaining with the status quo and all the issues that has provoked and also be expected to fund this forum - as I have done for a number of years. I will stop payments to Invision after April 4th. That means this forum is funded until May 11th - approximately 7 weeks. What happens now to the EF is for the membership to decide.

Like others, I’d like to thank Mr. Gordon for making this forum possible for a number of years at his own expense.  It often must have felt like a thankless task.

Rather than let all the information contained in these many pages simply die, perhaps Mr. Gordon would consider taking a few steps to preserve it.  If he is not already doing so, I wonder if there is a way to archive all the posts immediately.  It would surely be easier to do that now rather than trying to somehow reconstruct all this data after it was erased from the current server.  Can any of us help defray the cost of that?

Better yet, if there were new conditions of support that might enable James to reconsider his decision, no doubt many of us would appreciate hearing about them.  Some of us would surely be willing to help in any way possible.  

April 4th is just two weeks away.  I do think the use of language is important, but establishing the truth in this case, to me, is even more important.  Call me pessimistic, but two weeks seems like insufficient time to settle either issue.  Is there a way at least to extend the deadline?

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Jim,

April 4th is the date of my last payment. That payment keeps the forum funded until May 11th so the forum has around 6 weeks remaining.

Regarding keeping the present site Invision will provide a complete backup. The problem is that backup needs to be hosted and that hosting needs to be paid for.

I have been looking into a donation system. Our old donation system was deleted when I agreed that Invision upgrade us to Forum software V4. It is a little more complex but I would hope to get it up and running shortly. 

Yes we could move to another host, but I feel we would be better off staying with Invision. However, unless it has to fall on a single member - irrespective of who that member is - maybe we should think about a donation system. I will try and expedite the donation system and see where that takes us.

I will consider extending Invision's fee for a couple of more months. Essentially I am just fed up of member squabbling. Pat Speer may well be right that compared to other sites ours is much more respectful. However there is a minority who have used forum threads either to flood members with their pet theme irrespective of the actual theme of the thread. Or use threads to engage in personal squabbles  with fellow members. I detect that in the last few days the forum is seeing a change of tone. It is my hope that new dialogue will continue.

James

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I am a believer in members funding the forum. If you think it's worth saving, put your money where your keyboard is. I also realize some folks may not have the means to do so, and I don't want them to seem like or feel like second-class members. Nor do I want the members who do contribute to act as if they have purchased the right to be rude and crude. 

James Gordon has done a great thing by keeping the entire Education Forum afloat. It's not only the JFK assassination discussion forum, but it includes many various educational topics. The site was founded, first and foremost, as an EDUCATIONAL resource. If we will try to looks it through that lens, perhaps the rudeness and lack of respect will diminish accordingly. 

Pat Speer has his own site, and he understands, I believe, the educational angle. That's simply one example. But I think if we can steer our comments and questions toward an educational perspective, a lot of animosity will disappear.

This does NOT  exclude anyone from the responsibility to posting factual information, nor from the responsibility of labelling opinion and theory as opinion and theory. If you post something that someone else points out and proves as false, that does not relieve you of the responsibility of acknowledging proven facts. That is simply common courtesy. It does not demean anyone to say "I stand corrected," or "I was unclear," or even, "The facts you cited may be disputed."

It's all about respecting one another, and respecting that others may have a theory or opinion that differs from your own based upon the same facts. Respect one another, tell the truth (a HUGE sore spot for me personally), and remember the original EDUCATIONAL mission of The Education Forum.

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5 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

Pat Speer has his own site, and he understands, I believe, the educational angle.

Mark, I beg to disagree.

Pat Speer assumed the authenticity of the Fox 5 autopsy photo before he did any research.  What is "educational" about such an approach?

In 2003 Pat claimed JFK's shirt and jacket were bunched up 2 inches, so the bullet holes in the clothes aligned with T1.

In 2014 Pat stipulated to the fact JFK's clothing wasn't bunched up, and so the bullet holes in the clothes still aligned with T1.

Many of our "JFK experts" don't understand the root facts of he case, and deserve fact-checking.

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Mr. Varnell, for what it's worth, I am in agreement with you about the location of the back wound.

That said, the topic of this thread is NOT the location of the back wound. If you wish to re-debate the issue with others, it would be prudent and respectful to do so on a thread dedicated to that topic.

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55 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

Mr. Varnell, for what it's worth, I am in agreement with you about the location of the back wound.

That said, the topic of this thread is NOT the location of the back wound. If you wish to re-debate the issue with others, it would be prudent and respectful to do so on a thread dedicated to that topic.

Mark, I'm pushing back on your claim that Pat Speer's views are "educational."

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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Maybe James or another admin can tell us if this is helpful, and if so, how helpful. When using this start page ....

http://www.educationforum.co.uk/forum.html

.... Which Andy Walker created and brought to the attention of forum members on this thread....

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/5150-new-start-page/

I see an advertising banner at the top. Sometimes it advertises local businesses. 

Perhaps:

1. Users could use this to enter the forum. (Would it generate revenue?)

2. Things could be set-up so that all outside traffic gets directed to that page. From there they could click a link that would direct them to the page to which they were originally navigating. It would essentially be an advertising portal, which already exists. You might as well use it, right?

Just out of curiosity, and I understand that it is none of my business,  Do you see any revenue from that page?

Cheers,

Michael

 

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9 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

This does NOT  exclude anyone from the responsibility to posting factual information, nor from the responsibility of labelling opinion and theory as opinion and theory. If you post something that someone else points out and proves as false, that does not relieve you of the responsibility of acknowledging proven facts. That is simply common courtesy. It does not demean anyone to say "I stand corrected,"

 

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Also, I would like to ask another question. Since David Josephs "vacation" was partly due to a misunderstanding, it is possible that that has happened before. When a member disappears there is usually nothing said about it, I assume that I must not be aware of what transpired, and that it is none of my business. But, there could be members who could very well come back, and there "vacation" was due to a misunderstanding or it was only supposed to be brief.

My question is: Do you mind being asked about such things? Publicly or privately? 

Publicly addressing it makes some sense so that other members don't have to wonder about the same question. Perhaps having some indicator on their profile would make it clear. 

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Barring the payments to the website host cover the service till May 11, can we discuss the practicalities allowing the EF to continue. As it is turning out, EF will be sustained by voluntary donations of forum members and/or members of the public. The most simple solution would be having a functioning donation option on this website, and a donation meter showing the current balance. It would then be enough for one of the moderators to monitor the balance and issue a timely request to Forum members in case the balance would not cover the maintenance costs for few months ahead.   

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13 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Barring the payments to the website host cover the service till May 11, can we discuss the practicalities allowing the EF to continue. As it is turning out, EF will be sustained by voluntary donations of forum members and/or members of the public. The most simple solution would be having a functioning donation option on this website, and a donation meter showing the current balance. It would then be enough for one of the moderators to monitor the balance and issue a timely request to Forum members in case the balance would not cover the maintenance costs for few months ahead.   

Before we speak of donations -- we should also speak of what sort of total annual expense we're talking about.

Is it $10,000 annually?   $1,000 annually?   $100 annually?

What is needed from each of the active members?   $1 monthly?   $10 monthly?

If the members cannot support the site -- what are the prospects of a member downloading 6 years worth of one's own posts for archiving?

All best,
--Paul

 

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