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OAS and JFK assassination


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10 hours ago, Paz Marverde said:

You first

Me first lol? Well I was listening to an audio from Rob Clark of the Lone Gunman Podcast and Doug Campbell was his guest that particular episode. The episode is here:

https://www.spreaker.com/user/thelonegunman/ep-111-chessboards-and-marked-cards (skip to the 13:55 mark. That is where the discussion begins)

They discuss that particular bit about Harvey's flight to Dallas from Rome and though I even take their analysis with a grain of salt (have to study it myself) it does motivate me to wonder what Metta's proof of the alleged event is.

Edited by B. A. Copeland
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42 minutes ago, Paz Marverde said:

Exactly ...

I'm not sure I understand and perhaps I wasn't clear myself in my response, for which I apologize. Whenever researchers or students of the assassination make any claims, even if they cite sources, I find that considering what they have presented but not necessarily believing or investing 100% in their claims. If your point is that I need to "study myself" in order to see that Metta is correct, well that is obvious (I think we all should encourage study of course) but in the meantime I'm learning and part of that process is questioning Metta's powerful claim and scenario he presents in his film. You have said that Talbot was not the source, so I am asking you if you know who was the source? What is Metta's proof or evidence that Harvey went from Rome to Dallas in November 1963? 

Did you listen to the evidence that Doug presented to counter Talbot's (and Metta's) claim? It seem compelling but of course I will dig deeper. As for now, I'd like to know what you and Metta know as to Harvey being in Dallas via flight from Rome in 11/1963. So I went first, now its your turn.

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  • 3 years later...

Thanks for the link. I’m on board with this conspiracy theory in general, though I think we are still missing important links. Not so sure that Souetre was involved, despite the curious coincidences, and it’s very difficult to source the info that puts him in contact with Walker, and with Hunt especially. I had read sometime ago that Souetre had met with Hunt in Madrid in 1963 but could find no proof. I asked Larry Hancock if he thought that was possible and basically he said not likely. Hunt was posted in Madrid I think in 1965. But if he did meet Souetre there in 1963 it brings up other questions, such as who else might he have met there, and why was he later posted there.  Madrid was a central location for European fascists and even Nazis such as Otto Skorzeny, and the US had strong military presence in Spain as well, and kept an eye on Skorzeny and other Nazis. The Mossad actually hired Otto in Madrid in 1961 to carry out some dirty work in Egypt where he was well connected. However I came to a dead end with this research. I’m not saying I don’t think it’s possible, just can’t prove it.

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8 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Thanks for the link. I’m on board with this conspiracy theory in general, though I think we are still missing important links. Not so sure that Souetre was involved, despite the curious coincidences, and it’s very difficult to source the info that puts him in contact with Walker, and with Hunt especially. I had read sometime ago that Souetre had met with Hunt in Madrid in 1963 but could find no proof. I asked Larry Hancock if he thought that was possible and basically he said not likely. Hunt was posted in Madrid I think in 1965. But if he did meet Souetre there in 1963 it brings up other questions, such as who else might he have met there, and why was he later posted there.  Madrid was a central location for European fascists and even Nazis such as Otto Skorzeny, and the US had strong military presence in Spain as well, and kept an eye on Skorzeny and other Nazis. The Mossad actually hired Otto in Madrid in 1961 to carry out some dirty work in Egypt where he was well connected. However I came to a dead end with this research. I’m not saying I don’t think it’s possible, just can’t prove it.

Sounds like a long shot but, do the French, Spanish etc declassify their intelligence papers from that era and are they available online? 

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9 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Sounds like a long shot but, do the French, Spanish etc declassify their intelligence papers from that era and are they available online? 

Chris,

I kind of doubt it, or at least it's pretty difficult.

I once tried (with the help of Denis Morissette). to obtain the list of prisoners who were on trial in December, 1961 with Jean-Rene Souetre from the French equivalent of our National Archives. I was told that it was classified. You have to place your request in French. They don't accept requests in English.

I was trying to cross reference that list of names with the list of people who escaped with him from the French prison camp in February, 1962.

I later found the trial list in a newspaper article.

Steve Thomas

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1 hour ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

Steve, anybody interesting on that trial list?

Chuck,

Because of his outspoken opposition to DeGaulle, in the Nov - Dec, 1960 timeframe, Souetre was presented with a choice: either accept a transfer from Algeria back to France, or face arrest. He took the transfer, but in January, 1961 deserted from the Air Force and established a "Maquis" or French/Algerian Underground in Oran, Algeria.

(Souetre deserted in January, 1961. Went to the farm of Robert Martel.)

I'll give you this link, but I think it's broken now:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.piedsnoirs-aujourdhui.com/histoir73.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DOAS%2Bprison%2Bde%2BBarberousse%26start%3D10%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1600%26bih%3D736

 

"February 15, 1961 in Oran, near Mostaganem, about 80 km north-east of Oran, a first maquis "French Algeria" is established by two senior officers: its founder is Count Andrew Bush Montpeyroux, reserve captain in the (severely wounded honor of the 2nd World War 2 Military Cross, Military Medal, Legion, ex Corps Francs and those of the Resistance) head of SAS in 1957.

The leader of the commando is the captain of the Air Force Jean-René Souêtre former Groupement des Commandos Skydivers Air (5 citations 2 to order the army, Cross of Military Valour, Legion of Honor), which has a band of twenty soldiers and civilians (René Villard and network France Resurrection) …

 

...the maquis is surrounded February 23, 1961 by gendarmes that capture 9 thereof, the count and the captain, some of his men fled with 400 weapons and are based in other maquis training."

 

Over the evening hours of February21 - February 22, 1961 Souetre, Bruce de Montpeyroux, three sergeants and five civilians were arrested at Bouguirat in Mostaganem.

On December 17, 1961 all the members of the Maquis were put on trial.

 

Here is a link to the newspaper article I referenced, but that link is now broken too:

http://adimad.info/galerie/MAQUISBOURGUIRAT/Maquis_Sou_tre_2

image.png.d9d32b8433035e8f3d38c14fe443a773.png

Of the names I cross-referenced, I only found one who had both been at the trial in December, 1961 and who was also listed as one of the escapees from the prison camp in February, 1962. That was Albert LeFevre.

image.png.98a794baef3558f586b594ebcd0d1e06.png

The CIA produced a document that had the names of some of the members of that Maquis in Algeria:

HSCA Segregated CIA Collection

XIST CE NE OF "ALGERIE FRANCAISE" MAQUIS IN ALGERIA CONFIRMED BY ARREST

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=110453&relPageId=3

 

Steve Thomas

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1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Chuck,

Because of his outspoken opposition to DeGaulle, in the Nov - Dec, 1960 timeframe, Souetre was presented with a choice: either accept a transfer from Algeria back to France, or face arrest. He took the transfer, but in January, 1961 deserted from the Air Force and established a "Maquis" or French/Algerian Underground in Oran, Algeria.

(Souetre deserted in January, 1961. Went to the farm of Robert Martel.)

I'll give you this link, but I think it's broken now:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.piedsnoirs-aujourdhui.com/histoir73.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DOAS%2Bprison%2Bde%2BBarberousse%26start%3D10%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1600%26bih%3D736

 

"February 15, 1961 in Oran, near Mostaganem, about 80 km north-east of Oran, a first maquis "French Algeria" is established by two senior officers: its founder is Count Andrew Bush Montpeyroux, reserve captain in the (severely wounded honor of the 2nd World War 2 Military Cross, Military Medal, Legion, ex Corps Francs and those of the Resistance) head of SAS in 1957.

The leader of the commando is the captain of the Air Force Jean-René Souêtre former Groupement des Commandos Skydivers Air (5 citations 2 to order the army, Cross of Military Valour, Legion of Honor), which has a band of twenty soldiers and civilians (René Villard and network France Resurrection) …

 

...the maquis is surrounded February 23, 1961 by gendarmes that capture 9 thereof, the count and the captain, some of his men fled with 400 weapons and are based in other maquis training."

 

Over the evening hours of February21 - February 22, 1961 Souetre, Bruce de Montpeyroux, three sergeants and five civilians were arrested at Bouguirat in Mostaganem.

On December 17, 1961 all the members of the Maquis were put on trial.

 

Here is a link to the newspaper article I referenced, but that link is now broken too:

http://adimad.info/galerie/MAQUISBOURGUIRAT/Maquis_Sou_tre_2

image.png.d9d32b8433035e8f3d38c14fe443a773.png

Of the names I cross-referenced, I only found one who had both been at the trial in December, 1961 and who was also listed as one of the escapees from the prison camp in February, 1962. That was Albert LeFevre.

image.png.98a794baef3558f586b594ebcd0d1e06.png

The CIA produced a document that had the names of some of the members of that Maquis in Algeria:

HSCA Segregated CIA Collection

XIST CE NE OF "ALGERIE FRANCAISE" MAQUIS IN ALGERIA CONFIRMED BY ARREST

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=110453&relPageId=3

 

Steve Thomas

https://nationlistgreen.blogspot.com/2019/08/cia-refuses-to-release-files-on-jean.html

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7 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

The CIA produced a document that had the names of some of the members of that Maquis in Algeria:

HSCA Segregated CIA Collection

XIST CE NE OF "ALGERIE FRANCAISE" MAQUIS IN ALGERIA CONFIRMED BY ARREST

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=110453&relPageId=3

 

Steve Thomas

Steve - Interesting to see the entry numbered nine on that page above....I mentioned Henri Sleboda (spellings seem to vary a lot) on this thread

 

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14 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Chris,

I kind of doubt it, or at least it's pretty difficult.

I once tried (with the help of Denis Morissette). to obtain the list of prisoners who were on trial in December, 1961 with Jean-Rene Souetre from the French equivalent of our National Archives. I was told that it was classified. You have to place your request in French. They don't accept requests in English.

I was trying to cross reference that list of names with the list of people who escaped with him from the French prison camp in February, 1962.

I later found the trial list in a newspaper article.

Steve Thomas

Cheers Steve. 
 

I thought it might be but, with the modern translation tools it may be easier than the old days. If only we had a French speaker on the forum or in the JFKA community. 

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