Biological Map in JFK’s Neck Points to South Knoll

[David Josephs]

I should also mention that I seem to remember there was a sewer access on the south knoll just like the north that evidently was cemented over at some point....

A fast and easy getaway from way over there....

Here's a composite I did showing the entire view

 

[Greg Wagner]

Nice work, David. Thanks for posting that!

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

After reading Sherry's work many, many years ago... I produced this graphic to give some sense of where JFK was facing at the time of the Z313 shots...

The yellow line is the center of JFK's head pointing in the direction he's facing...

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time----well, he was in a position-- sort of immobile. He wasn't upright. He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged--it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. 

From where Altgens was (you can see his name just below the yellow line as it reaches the curb) with a car moving left to right and physical proof that at least one or more shots occurs but 15 feet from his location... the shooter would seem to need to be much further WEST than the east corner of the TSBD pr even the WEST corner of that building...

 

 

And any time the South Knoll comes up, we should give a shout out to Tosh and this diagram...  believe or not, there is good indication that at least 1 shot comes from the south knoll area...

FWIW
DJ

 

 

Hi David, I guess by Tosh you mean Plumlee.  I never knew he did a diagram.  Over time a south knoll does not seem that inconceivable having been there, after reading Fister.  For someone a little better than I, with a scope, some might consider it an easy shot.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

18 hours ago, Paz Marverde said:

---

Milicent Cranor:

If the wound in Kennedy’s throat was an exit instead of an entrance, then we would have to assume that a bullet entered the back and exited the throat. But in an article published long ago, the late John Nichols, MD, PhD explained why this could not have happened: the wound was only 5 centimeters or 1.9 inches from the midline of the back and even closer to outer edge of the spine itself. In its hypothetical journey to the middle of the throat, the bullet would have to go through the spine.

This is what kills me about JFKA critical research. The Expert Employment Program -- always with the technical explanations for obvious facts.

Instead, I suggest getting a 5 year old kid to point out that the bullet holes in JFK's clothes are too low to have been associated with the throat wound.

Which proves the throat sound was an entrance given the hairline fracture of the right T1 transverse process, which could never have been caused by the shot in the back at T3.

How could a fragment from the head shot cause a T1 hairline fracture and exit the throat?  That bullet trajectory would be positively psychedelic.

These issues should have been settled in 1966 but for the intervention of Pet Theory BS which has long side-tracked JFKA critical research.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Cliff Varnell

[Steve Thomas]

15 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

Paz, 

here is a pic I took back in February from about 20' from the south end of the triple overpass, standing right over where James Tague stood (the concrete divider between Main and Commerce).

 

Rick,

 

That's about the best picture of Dealey Plaza that I have ever seen. Everything is so perfect to scale.

Congratulations.

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

15 hours ago, Greg Wagner said:

Great photo, Rick. Thanks for posting that. I was never convinced of a gunman on the South Koll until I read Sherry's book a couple years ago. She makes a strong case for it and I now consider it a very real possibility.

Greg,

 

Couple Sherry's work with Stavis Ellis's through and through hole in the windshield made the case for me.

 

Steve Thomas

[Greg Wagner]

Hi Steve. Several people who had a good look at it described what they saw as a bullet hole in the windshield. Going from memory here, but I seem to recall one of them even describing the edges of the hole as smooth on the outside of the windshield and chipped on the inside, indicating a shot from the front:

o    Stavis Ellis, DPD

o    HR Freeman, DPD

o    Dr Evalea Glanges

o    Charles Taylor Jr, Secret Service

o    Richard Dudman, St Louis Dispatch

o    Frank Cormier, St Louis Dispatch

o    George Whitaker, Ford

o    NIck Prencipe, US Parks Police

[David Andrews]

Just a stray thought: being that Dealey Plaza narrows into a reversed triangle, with the base at Houston Street and the apex at the underpass, wouldn't it make logistical sense to have the field of fire arranged in roughly an hourglass shape, with the base of the bottom, upright triangle at the underpass, the apexes overlapping. 

It couldn't be a perfect, symmetrical plan, owing to topography and available firing platforms.  But - whatever other shooter positions there were at the grassy knoll, TSBD, Dal-Tex, the southeastern building rooftops - the final line would be two shooters at either end of the underpass, one in the north end storm drain, and one at the south end bridge top.  The last line of offense, blocking escape.

Is there a matching storm drain at the south end of the underpass that could be used instead of the bridge top?  Or not, because the north side of Elm is the lowest ground for rainwater flow?

The east base (Houston Street) would be at the top of this diagram adapted from another purpose.  The west base (triple underpass) would be at bottom.  The plan would be also effective had the limo taken the Main Street route.

When we think of triangulation of fire...we ought to think of two triangles, though there might have been a northward concentration of firing positions (TSBD, grassy knoll) since the finalized route would use the Elm Street dogleg to slow the limo.  Was the Main Street entrance to the Plaza blocked off at all?

 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by David Andrews

[Ron Ecker]

29 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

Is there a matching storm drain at the south end of the underpass? 

 

There was at one time. I remember an article or discussion of this years ago, a question being was the drain still there at the time of the assassination. There was a researcher who wrote about this, but all I remember is that his last name started (I think) with a W.

EDIT: Found it. The researcher was Douglas Weldon, and his article is in Fetzer's Murder in Dealey Plaza.

He states that the storm drain at the south end would have provided a perfect trajectory for a shooter, and could not be seen from the main part of the underpass. He concludes that the throat wound was caused by a shot through the windshield from that location. (He discusses all the witnesses to the windhshield hole, with Ellis saying he actually put a pencil through it.) He says that the drain is now paved over. He says it may have been paved over for safety purposes due to walkers on the underpass, but if so, why wasn't the north end storm drain paved over?

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Ron Ecker

[Robert Harper]

 

Tosh Talks about "That Day"

 

Tosh Talks about "That Day" how incredibly interesting. I know Mr Plumlee used to contribute here, and perhaps still does, but this is the f...

"Telling a lie is an act with a sharp focus It is designed to assert a particular falsehood....the problem of understanding why our attitude toward bullshit is generally more benign than our attitude toward lying is an important one,"  wrote Professor Harry G Frankfurst in his elegantly short book, On Bullshit. It has been translated in over a dozen languages, so there seems to be a widespread understanding of those concepts.

 

 Anyway, as an amateur (the word's Latin root  is: one who has a taste for something), I have made judgments--some on hunch, some on reason, about various people in the JFK saga. I  had put the names Nagel, Hemmings, Dean, Files, Brown, Plumlee etc  in the BS dept of my mental filing system. The liars are clearer of course: Hoover, Dulles, Angleton, Hunt, Helms etc. and the one's I pretty much accept as truthful at all times-like Dinkin and Cheramie and Craig etc.

 

 I read about half of Sherry Fiester's book but couldn't get through it. After this thread, which prompted the linked interview search, and also prompted my Frankfurst search, I am still as baffled as ever, but much more inclined to put Mr Plumlee in another file.

[Jeff Carter]

Walt Brown in his JFK Chronology (Book 2 pp65-66) noted that two of the Dallas police officers in charge of keeping persons off of the overpass during the motorcade, both happened to submit a written report on December 4, 1963 in which both used the exact same phrase to describe their instructions:

“As I recall, he instructed me to keep all persons off the overpass at this location during the parade.  It was my understanding that I was to keep all unauthorized persons away from the location…”

Brown:  “The reader will note that the statement made by Officer J. C. White, xxxigned to the western side of the Triple Underpass, and the statement here, by Officer J. W. Foster, xxxigned to the eastern side of the Triple Underpass, are identical.

Not “similar” or “close.”  Identical.  And it’s not a coincidence, because the odds of two different individuals using the exact same 35 words to describe a situation, when measured statistically, generate a number that is 18 digits in length…

In this situation, the two officers on top of the Triple Underpass are guilty of collusion, in that they both weasel-worded their statements to cover their butts because not “all persons” were kept off the Triple Underpass.

Whatever else they are guilty of, I leave to the reader.”

(CE 1358 link to White’s statement, with Foster’s on the subsequent page)

 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=634&tab=page

[Ron Ecker]

22 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

Walt Brown in his JFK Chronology (Book 2 pp65-66) noted that two of the Dallas police officers in charge of keeping persons off of the overpass during the motorcade, both happened to submit a written report on December 4, 1963 in which both used the exact same phrase to describe their instructions:

“As I recall, he instructed me to keep all persons off the overpass at this location during the parade.  It was my understanding that I was to keep all unauthorized persons away from the location…”

Brown:  “The reader will note that the statement made by Officer J. C. White, xxxigned to the western side of the Triple Underpass, and the statement here, by Officer J. W. Foster, xxxigned to the eastern side of the Triple Underpass, are identical.

Not “similar” or “close.”  Identical.  And it’s not a coincidence, because the odds of two different individuals using the exact same 35 words to describe a situation, when measured statistically, generate a number that is 18 digits in length…

In this situation, the two officers on top of the Triple Underpass are guilty of collusion, in that they both weasel-worded their statements to cover their butts because not “all persons” were kept off the Triple Underpass.

Whatever else they are guilty of, I leave to the reader.”

(CE 1358 link to White’s statement, with Foster’s on the subsequent page)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=634&tab=page

To that I would add that Officer White, xxxigned to the west side of the underpass, told the WC that he didn't see the approaching motorcade or the shooting because "a big long freight train" was passing at the time. Didn't hear shots either, it was "a noisy train."

There was no such train passing during the shooting. Why would he say that (with the WC of course not calling him on it)? Could it be because this fictional train would have blocked his view of anyone who might have been a shooter at the south end of the underpass?

Who knows, because the WC simply took the officer's passing train as a fact, though no one else in the area ever saw or heard it.

 

 

[Rick McTague]

11 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Rick,

 

That's about the best picture of Dealey Plaza that I have ever seen. Everything is so perfect to scale.

Congratulations.

 

Steve Thomas

Steve,

I have appreciated your posts here at EF and I thank you for that kind comment.

Rick

[Paz Marverde]

14 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

That's about the best picture of Dealey Plaza that I have ever seen. Everything is so perfect to scale.

Congratulations.

Totally agree 

[Paz Marverde]

23 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Here's a composite I did showing the entire view

Thank you. What app did you use, please?