What is known about Oswald's time in England?

[Mervyn Hagger]

Oswald embarked by ship on September 20, 1959 from New Orleans to Le Havre, France, and immediately traveled to the United Kingdom. Arriving in Southampton on October 9, 1959. He told officials he had $700 and planned to stay for one week before proceeding to a school in Switzerland. However, on the same day, he flew to Helsinki ....

What is known about the movements of Lee Harvey Oswald on October 9, 1959?

Clearly there must be some sort of record because: "He told officials he had $700 and planned to stay for one week before proceeding to a school in Switzerland..."

After he left Southampton Dock he had to go to London's Heathrow Airport to fly to Helsinki.

Is there a record of him doing this?

Did he meet anyone at Heathrow Airport in London?

Did he go into London itself?

Did he meet anyone there?

Edited May 9, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger
corrected year typo

[Jason Ward]

Hi Mervyn,

1962?   Check the date?

In the released FBI files there is a little info obtained from MI5/6? about Oswald in the UK.  If I recall correctly there isn't much they were able to uncover apart from a study of journey times, routes, and similar efforts attempting to discern Oswald's likely movements.   I'll try to look through what I have tomorrow as Oswald in the UK has always interested me, despite the paltry lack of information.

There remains a significant question about how he gets from London to Helsinki.

There are a couple other UK angles I've seen in the FBI releases.    One is a pretty well known warning call to a Cambridge journalist 20 minutes before shots were fired in Dallas.  The other event that interests me is a documented dockside pub conversation discussing the details of the assassination some weeks before it happened.   Both events were investigated thoroughly by the UK authorities.

Oswald is a pretty sophisticated world traveller for his age and for that era.  Many Americans today would struggle with such quick movements in the UK - even with mobile phones, increased services, the internet, and so forth which were not around back then.  Oswald apparently knew what to do, where to go, and how to get there with inexplicable efficiency for his nominally modest situation.

 

Jason

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Jason Ward

[Mervyn Hagger]

Hi Jason. It is supposed to read 1959.

He left the USSR in June 1962.

It is interesting that the alleged assassin of MLK also found his way to London, and just how he afforded that seems to be still a matter of doubt.

In 1959, London was in the slide to great controversy because MI6 had installed a Soviet spy (from Cambridge) in Washington DC., and he brought a pal with him. Other double agent with access to CIA secrets that could be relayed to Moscow.

It was the time of JFK and Macmillan in the Bahamas, and the story of JFK arm-twisting Macmillan to dump Bluestreak where after it morphed into Trident: a submarine program still the subject of controversy in the UK.

At the same time it was the beginning of the NY/NJ Mafia moving into London and setting up casinos. A new law made this possible.

It was the time of the Kray Twins who ruled London gangland, and it was also the time of Christine Keeler and events that caused Macmillan to turn over his job as Prime Minister to Lord Home.

Into this mix, the CIA used its base in Paris to target Britain with an academic journal in order to influence British political action.

The US Treasury (Secret Service) also set up a base in Paris and another 'front' (European Exchange Bank) to stop the international trade in stolen bonds from Canada and the USA being laundered through London.

Also during this period, the Metropolitan Police (London's Scotland Yard cops), were becoming more and more entangled by bribes with London gangs to the point that the Krays eventually used them for protection.

It was a combination of events involving the US Secret Service that eventually shut down the Krays and threw out the US Mafia. Even Tiny Tim's NYC manager was part of this criminal underworld in London.

For Oswald to go from Southampton on the south coast to Helsinki, he had to fly from London's Heathrow Airport, and regardless of what has been found to date, there were so many people spying on each other in London in the late Fifties and early Sixties that Lee Harvey Oswald could not have passed unnoticed.

 

[Robert Harper]

4 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Oswald is a pretty sophisticated world traveller for his age and for that era. 

Thank you for making this point. Those who may be new to the Forum might not know that this kid, who moved a lot during formative years, learned to adjust to others and got used to different environments. He read Russian literature, played chess and liked opera. He traveled the world before most young Americans had been on an airplane. I was born a dozen years after Lee Oswald, and I didn't fly in a plane until I was 25. And I sure as hell never had the equivalent of $6000 in my pocket when I finally did fly.

 I'm still learning and slowly accepting that the "Oswald Project" included more than one LHO. But the young man that was used and killed in Dallas, was no dummy loner, that's for damn sure.

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Robert Harper

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

The Warren Report deals with Oswald's trip in Appendix XIII. It states only that "Oswald disembarked at Le Havre on October 8. He left for England that same day, and arrived on October 9. He told English customs officials in Southampton that he had $700 and planned to remain in the United Kingdom for 1 week before proceeding to a school in Switzerland. But on the same day, he flew to Helsinki, Finland." (p.690: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=714 ). The evidence for this is in note 478 (WR, p.862: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=886 ), which cites:

- Commission Exhibit 2711, p.39 (Hearings and Exhibits, vol.26, p.85: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=121 ), an FBI memo giving the dates of Oswald's transatlantic journey. The ship, the SS Marion Lykes, arrived in La Rochelle on 5 October, left the following day, and arrived in Le Havre on 8 October. Three passengers disembarded at 12:06pm.
- CE 946, p.7 (H&E, vol.18, p.162: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=176 ), a photograph of a page of Oswald's passport containing five immigration stamps: entering and leaving France at Le Havre on 8 October, entering the UK at Southampton on 9 October, leaving "London Airport" on 10 October, and entering Finland at Helsinki on 10 October.
- CE 2676, p.1 (H&E, vol.26, p.32: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=68 ), a memo from Helms to Rankin noting that "according to a reliable source" Oswald's first night in Helsinki was 10 October.

As far as I'm aware, the only detailed discussion of Oswald's time in England is Chris Mills' article, 'A Flight of Fancy' ( http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/fancy2.txt ). Mills points out that the ship which took Oswald from Le Havre to Southampton, a large liner named the Liberté, is unlikely to have docked at Southampton merely to offload a few passengers. Instead, the passengers would have been picked up by tugs in the harbour. Depending on which tug Oswald used, he would have arrived in Southampton at either 7:50pm or 8:40pm. Mills also implies, however, that Southampton was the Liberté's final destination on its journey from New York via Le Havre. In this case, the ship would presumably have needed to dock at Southampton. Either way, we can assume that Oswald arrived in England at some point during the evening of 9 October.

Mills and every other writer I'm aware of assumes that Oswald flew to Helsinki from Heathrow Airport, London's main airport in 1959. But I wonder if Oswald flew instead from Gatwick Airport. The only practical way for Oswald to travel from Southampton to "London Airport" was by train. The train line from Southampton, on the south coast of England, to London doesn't (and didn't) go near Heathrow, which is a few miles west of central London, but it does (and did) go through Gatwick, which is roughly 30 miles south of London (and, incidentally, just down the road from where I'm typing this).

There has been a railway station at Gatwick since the 1890s, when the site was occupied by a racecourse. Gatwick Airport itself dates from the mid-1930s. It underwent serious renovation 20 years later, and in its current form was officially opened on 9 June 1958, just over a year before Oswald's arrival.

According to a couple of local history websites, the first airline to use Gatwick Airport was Transair:

- http://www.gatwickaviationsociety.org.uk/history.asp
- http://www.british-caledonian.com/Gatwick_Airport_-_The_History_P3.html (which includes an aerial photograph of the airport with its railway station in 1958)

A Transair press release from 1958 includes this information: "Tranair's services include trooping services to Malta and Gibraltar, newspaper and mail services covering the whole of Europe, and Inclusive Tour Services to many of the popular Mediterranean destinations" (quoted in http://www.british-caledonian.com/1958_Transair_at_Gatwick.html ).

I doubt that any Transair flight schedules from 1959 survive. But the airline was in operation at the time of Oswald's brief visit to England, and it did fly all over Europe from Gatwick Airport, and Oswald almost certainly took a train that went through Gatwick. I'm not sure we should rule out the possibility that he flew to Helsinki from Gatwick after spending the night in Southampton, rather than from Heathrow after spending the night somewhere in central London.

[Mervyn Hagger]

25 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

The Warren Report deals with Oswald's trip in Appendix XIII. It states only that "Oswald disembarked at Le Havre on October 8. He left for England that same day, and arrived on October 9. He told English customs officials in Southampton that he had $700 and planned to remain in the United Kingdom for 1 week before proceeding to a school in Switzerland. But on the same day, he flew to Helsinki, Finland." (p.690: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=714 ). The evidence for this is in note 478 (WR, p.862: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=886 ), which cites:

- Commission Exhibit 2711, p.39 (Hearings and Exhibits, vol.26, p.85: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=121 ), an FBI memo giving the dates of Oswald's transatlantic journey. The ship, the SS Marion Lykes, arrived in La Rochelle on 5 October, left the following day, and arrived in Le Havre on 8 October. Three passengers disembarded at 12:06pm.
- CE 946, p.7 (H&E, vol.18, p.162: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=176 ), a photograph of a page of Oswald's passport containing five immigration stamps: entering and leaving France at Le Havre on 8 October, entering the UK at Southampton on 9 October, leaving "London Airport" on 10 October, and entering Finland at Helsinki on 10 October.
- CE 2676, p.1 (H&E, vol.26, p.32: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=68 ), a memo from Helms to Rankin noting that "according to a reliable source" Oswald's first night in Helsinki was 10 October.

As far as I'm aware, the only detailed discussion of Oswald's time in England is Chris Mills' article, 'A Flight of Fancy' ( http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/fancy2.txt ). Mills points out that the ship which took Oswald from Le Havre to Southampton, a large liner named the Liberté, is unlikely to have docked at Southampton merely to offload a few passengers. Instead, the passengers would have been picked up by tugs in the harbour. Depending on which tug Oswald used, he would have arrived in Southampton at either 7:50pm or 8:40pm. Mills also implies, however, that Southampton was the Liberté's final destination on its journey from New York via Le Havre. In this case, the ship would presumably have needed to dock at Southampton. Either way, we can assume that Oswald arrived in England at some point during the evening of 9 October.

Mills and every other writer I'm aware of assumes that Oswald flew to Helsinki from Heathrow Airport, London's main airport in 1959. But I wonder if Oswald flew instead from Gatwick Airport. The only practical way for Oswald to travel from Southampton to "London Airport" was by train. The train line from Southampton, on the south coast of England, to London doesn't (and didn't) go near Heathrow, which is a few miles west of central London, but it does (and did) go through Gatwick, which is roughly 30 miles south of London (and, incidentally, just down the road from where I'm typing this).

There has been a railway station at Gatwick since the 1890s, when the site was occupied by a racecourse. Gatwick Airport itself dates from the mid-1930s. It underwent serious renovation 20 years later, and in its current form was officially opened on 9 June 1958, just over a year before Oswald's arrival.

According to a couple of local history websites, the first airline to use Gatwick Airport was Transair:

- http://www.gatwickaviationsociety.org.uk/history.asp
- http://www.british-caledonian.com/Gatwick_Airport_-_The_History_P3.html (which includes an aerial photograph of the airport with its railway station in 1958)

A Transair press release from 1958 includes this information: "Tranair's services include trooping services to Malta and Gibraltar, newspaper and mail services covering the whole of Europe, and Inclusive Tour Services to many of the popular Mediterranean destinations" (quoted in http://www.british-caledonian.com/1958_Transair_at_Gatwick.html ).

I doubt that any Transair flight schedules from 1959 survive. But the airline was in operation at the time of Oswald's brief visit to England, and it did fly all over Europe from Gatwick Airport, and Oswald almost certainly took a train that went through Gatwick. I'm not sure we should rule out the possibility that he flew to Helsinki from Gatwick after spending the night in Southampton, rather than from Heathrow after spending the night somewhere in central London.

Hi Jeremy. Thank you for that detailed explanation which points to an anomaly in the Warren Report. Another one,. citing this line: "But on the same day, he flew to Helsinki, Finland..." What you are pointing to is a contradiction in the Warren Report. Helsinki is not that far by air from London, and if LHO arrived in England on the 9th and departed on the same day, why does the record show that he spent his first night in Helsinki on the 10th? Originally I made a mistake in transposing a day and a month in 1959 with the same day and month in 1962. Rather than destroying my original hypothesis concerning LHO and the project Bill Weaver was working on for McLendon and Murchison, it strengthens it, because that project also began in 1959 and ended in 1962, and its original base of operations was in Helsinki, Finland. Mervyn

[Mervyn Hagger]

1. "....an FBI memo giving the dates of Oswald's transatlantic journey. The ship, the SS Marion Lykes, arrived in La Rochelle on 5 October, left the following day, and arrived in Le Havre on 8 October." https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=lI7Sso4u&id=97427DB0E3166812F2DFD60A65BE6260BA1214D7&thid=OIP.lI7Sso4uhGtuyzz4KyyqbwHaHd&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fdigital.lib.uh.edu%2fcontentdm%2fimage%2fstandard%2fp15195coll28%2f114%2f596%2f600%2f13.315579227696%2f0%2f0%2f0%2f0&exph=599&expw=595&q=ss+marion+lykes&simid=607990573359825951&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0
2. "the ship which took Oswald from Le Havre to Southampton, a large liner named the Liberté, is unlikely to have docked at Southampton merely to offload a few passengers. Instead, the passengers would have been picked up by tugs in the harbour. Depending on which tug Oswald used, he would have arrived in Southampton at either 7:50pm or 8:40pm. Mills also implies, however, that Southampton was the Liberté's final destination on its journey from New York via Le Havre." http://www.cruiselinehistory.com/the-french-line-ss-liberte-1950s/

These are two different kinds of ship. One is a freighter and the other is a liner.

Okay, which ship was it?

If the name of the ship is not certain, then what else is not certain about the arrival of Lee Harvey Oswald in England during 1959?

Mervyn

 

[Jason Ward]

14 hours ago, Robert Harper said:

Thank you for making this point. Those who may be new to the Forum might not know that this kid, who moved a lot during formative years, learned to adjust to others and got used to different environments. He read Russian literature, played chess and liked opera. He traveled the world before most young Americans had been on an airplane. I was born a dozen years after Lee Oswald, and I didn't fly in a plane until I was 25. And I sure as hell never had the equivalent of $6000 in my pocket when I finally did fly.

 I'm still learning and slowly accepting that the "Oswald Project" included more than one LHO. But the young man that was used and killed in Dallas, was no dummy loner, that's for damn sure.

 

Hi Robert. Oswald's travels alone make him quite a unique individual.

Your profile says you are a Dutch so you are no doubt comfortable with the ease of travelling today across borders.  But I think Americans both then and now are much less competent with this!   I travel to London a lot for work and once or twice a year onward to other parts of Europe.  From what I see, the average American today finds just London by itself intimidating & confusing even though now there is the internet and a lot more tourist infrastructure available to assist.

A 19 y.o. American high school dropout in the 1950s managing global and trans-UK/trans-European travel is really impressive.   One of a kind almost.  I imagine even today few 19 year old Americans would be able to do what Oswald did so efficiently - no hiccups, no getting lost, everything quick and easy.  BTW - I am skeptical of a CIA or other US intelligence connection to the assassination, although clearly Oswald is anything but ordinary.   My hunch is Oswald imagines himself a 007 James Bond-type figure even though his actual intelligence connections are slight at best.   His repeated arrogance (for instance, see the report from his shipboard cabinmate below) betrays to me a young man impressed with himself and his imagined potential but without any actual spy credentials.

 

11 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Commission Exhibit 2711, 
- CE 946
- CE 2676, .

Jeremy, I took your links and reprinted them here.  I added a couple more documents I found.   (Notice the anger of the ship's steward at Oswald or not leaving a tip...)

Itinerary

Passenger list

 

 

 

Oswald's passport and 1959 immigration stamps

 

The question of Oswald's transport between London and Helsinki has been around for 55 years...

 

Oswald shared a cabin with an 18 y.o. boy named Billy Lord for his transatlantic crossing on the SS Marion Lykes.

 

Oswald = not a good tipper.

 

 

11 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

...

I doubt that any Transair flight schedules from 1959 survive. But the airline was in operation at the time of Oswald's brief visit to England, and it did fly all over Europe from Gatwick Airport, and Oswald almost certainly took a train that went through Gatwick. I'm not sure we should rule out the possibility that he flew to Helsinki from Gatwick after spending the night in Southampton, rather than from Heathrow after spending the night somewhere in central London.

Also, I believe it is now known that there was on that day the possibility of reaching Helsinki from Heathrow (then London Airport) via commercial airline connections in Europe such as Copenhagen.  I discount the possibility of forging a London Airport UK exit stamp in Oswald's passport as this detail actually makes the Lone Nut Crazy Commie story harder to believe.  The stamp is of course easy to forge - but there is no reason to do so.

8 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

These are two different kinds of ship. One is a freighter and the other is a liner.

Okay, which ship was it?

If the name of the ship is not certain, then what else is not certain about the arrival of Lee Harvey Oswald in England during 1959?

Mervyn

 

Mervyn, I think the Marion Lykes terminated its voyage at Le Havre meaning Oswald acquired passage across he channel on another vessel - presumably on the Liberté.  As me and Robert Harper were discussing, Oswald's command of these atypical travel options are probably unheard of for a more typical 1950s American teenager.

 

 

Jason

 

  

 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

22 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

Southampton

 

Mervyn, apologies if you feel what I offer in this post drifts off your topic of Oswald in the UK. 

I want to throw it out there because I feel the best hope now is that undiscovered unofficial evidence might yet surface that will finally solve everything.   

Someone might remember something their dad said about an American in Southampton in the 50s.  Someone might remember a strange story their aunt told them of a young American they met on a train, boat, or plane around Britain in the late 50s/early 60s. Someone might have a diary or a letter stuffed in a box in the attic that contains a decisive clue.... so perhaps there is just the tiniest tiny chance that by posting this story from a Southampton pub we might turn up something new?

You reminded us that James Earl Ray also got to the UK - he and Oswald are among the least likely Americans to ever pass through London IMO, if we take them at face value.  

Jason

 

====----====----====

1. There's dozens of reports like this in the FBI documents from apparently reliable witnesses.  Not all are possible instances of advanced assassination knowledge such as the Southampton pub story, and I haven't noticed that there's any other example quite like this from the UK.   Maybe Thomas Kerr Smith is just crazy, or a drunk, or mistaken, but he's rated as honest by the professionals who interviewed him.  Is it possible that somewhere in the sea of leads like this -which were never really pursued- there might still yet be an undiscovered clue?

{"confidential source abroad" is often FBI-speak for the police or intelligence apparatus of a friendly foreign government}

e

 

SOURCE:

1 - FBI JFK Headquarters File, Section 53, page 121

[Michael Clark]

21 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

 

Mervyn, ... 

I want to throw it out there because I feel the best hope now is that undiscovered unofficial evidence might yet surface that will finally solve everything.   

 

Jason,

Are you, like Paul Trejo, hoping that all the things that you believe might be revealed, someday, by some unseen, unexpected, unimaginable, surprise disclosure; sometime in the future?

Are you hoping that all of this evidence, which of course is the foundation of all that you and Paul Trejo purvey around the forum, for carts and shovels to collect, might one day be released by the dark deep-state that is preventing you from receiving the recognition of your genius?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mervyn Hagger]

1 hour ago, Jason Ward said:

 

Mervyn, apologies if you feel what I offer in this post drifts off your topic of Oswald in the UK. 

I want to throw it out there because I feel the best hope now is that undiscovered unofficial evidence might yet surface that will finally solve everything.   

Someone might remember something their dad said about an American in Southampton in the 50s.  Someone might remember a strange story their aunt told them of a young American they met on a train, boat, or plane around Britain in the late 50s/early 60s. Someone might have a diary or a letter stuffed in a box in the attic that contains a decisive clue.... so perhaps there is just the tiniest tiny chance that by posting this story from a Southampton pub we might turn up something new?

You reminded us that James Earl Ray also got to the UK - he and Oswald are among the least likely Americans to ever pass through London IMO, if we take them at face value.  

Jason

 

====----====----====

1. There's dozens of reports like this in the FBI documents from apparently reliable witnesses.  Not all are possible instances of advanced assassination knowledge such as the Southampton pub story, and I haven't noticed that there's any other example quite like this from the UK.   Maybe Thomas Kerr Smith is just crazy, or a drunk, or mistaken, but he's rated as honest by the professionals who interviewed him.  Is it possible that somewhere in the sea of leads like this -which were never really pursued- there might still yet be an undiscovered clue?

{"confidential source abroad" is often FBI-speak for the police or intelligence apparatus of a friendly foreign government}

e

 

SOURCE:

1 - FBI JFK Headquarters File, Section 53, page 121

Jason - thank you for your comments and contributions. I realize that I am a total bore to many on this site, but so be it. As I stated many times I lived next door to the grave of LHO and have driven over the spot where JFK got shot so many times that I have no idea of the total. I have been bemused by the tourists taking pictures, but until very, very recently I was not at all interested. I am investigating another matter which also has its own body of followers who are bored with me because I am upsetting their belief system by proving it to be totally bogus. Now that thread has crossed into the JFK thread in that I am dealing with the same time frame and the same places and in many instances the same people. But there is just me and a mailing list I have, at the moment doing the research. So I am very grateful to receive any helpful input from whatever the source and you are certainly proving to be extremely helpful. Thank you!

[Mervyn Hagger]

1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

 

Jason,

Are you, like Paul Trejo, hoping that all the things that you believe might be revealed, someday, by some unseen, unexpected, unimaginable, surprise disclosure; sometime in the future?

Are you hoping that all of this evidence, which of course is the foundation of all that you and Paul Trejo purvey around the forum, for carts and shovels to collect, might one day be released by the dark deep-state that is preventing you from receiving the recognition of your genius?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Michael, I think that you miss the point completely! By being so narrowly focussed on one aspect of events that took place in Dallas on November 22, 1963, you are ignoring the fact that ordinary life was ongoing and that many of the people who are named by JFK assassination fans (not researchers, fans), are unaware of what these folks were doing in the course of their lives. In other words they were not living in some sort of "JFK freak time bubble", but had families; engaged in a variety of work projects and had contact with many people and things - not just in Dallas - Fort Worth, but in Houston, in Galveston, in the Bahamas, and in both the British Isles and Scandinavia. Those are the areas and connections I am investigating and until the last few days I had absolutely no idea that Lee Harvey Oswald had set foot in England. I just wasn't paying attention because until the last few months, the entire issue of JFK's assassination bored me to death. Now I have begun to sit, take notice and pay very close attention to what informed individuals such as Jason, have to say - because all of a sudden the issue of everything from the bullet whizzing by Edwin Walker to the relationships of Jack Ruby and Gordon McLendon, not forgetting Clint Murchison and the ideology espoused by Edwin Walker, or involvement of David Atlee Phillips and the involvement of Bobby Kennedy with maritime affairs in the Gulf of Mexico along with Manuel Artime Buesa, have all collided with the strange and complicated tale of the 'Swinging Sixties' and pirate radio broadcasting off Scandinavia and the British Isles. Even John Peel who was a DJ on board the McLendon clone of KILT Dallas ("Big L" off England), was previously in the press conference when Lee Harvey Oswald was introduced by Dallas Police Officers holding him in custody. This is not a time bubble, but all part of world events and related individuals.

[Jason Ward]

36 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

not researchers, fans

37 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

This is not a time bubble, but all part of world events and related individuals.

Mervyn, I appreciate very much that you are confident enough to seek your own answers. 

Most of the assassination fans just regurgitate the same tripe over and over and often contest with themselves to see who can spew forth a detail of their religious doctrine first.  They seek to defend their fandom and violently oppose independent inquiry outside of the fan group.  They've created a mythology - like Harry Potter - complete with iconic characters, rituals, time worn villains, and well rehearsed storylines repeated over and over. 

We're in a false dichotomy.  Between the Warren Commission defenders and the defenders of the ratified conspiracy religion, there is almost no one pursuing a Third Way or a Fourth Way or ..... except you and a very few others.

We've already shared some information and I admit I don't see all the hints and connections you do. But we all need fresh thinking.  There's nothing different in 90% of what is said around here versus what Mark Lane and Jim Garrison said over 50 years ago. I hope the adversarial atmosphere from the fan boys doesn't deter you.   I'm not even sure if JFK's murder is your first priority here, but your angles are interesting!

 

Jason

[Mervyn Hagger]

1 hour ago, Jason Ward said:

Mervyn, I appreciate very much that you are confident enough to seek your own answers. 

Most of the assassination fans just regurgitate the same tripe over and over and often contest with themselves to see who can spew forth a detail of their religious doctrine first.  They seek to defend their fandom and violently oppose independent inquiry outside of the fan group.  They've created a mythology - like Harry Potter - complete with iconic characters, rituals, time worn villains, and well rehearsed storylines repeated over and over. 

We're in a false dichotomy.  Between the Warren Commission defenders and the defenders of the ratified conspiracy religion, there is almost no one pursuing a Third Way or a Fourth Way or ..... except you and a very few others.

We've already shared some information and I admit I don't see all the hints and connections you do. But we all need fresh thinking.  There's nothing different in 90% of what is said around here versus what Mark Lane and Jim Garrison said over 50 years ago. I hope the adversarial atmosphere from the fan boys doesn't deter you.   I'm not even sure if JFK's murder is your first priority here, but your angles are interesting!

 

Jason

Thank you Jason. This forum has a parallel in the folks called 'anoraks' who are "into" the history of pirate, offshore broadcasting stations. They also hate me. LOL. But be that as it may, sometimes fragments of information do appear. I know that my interest in Eugene Bernald and Edwin Walker and his article in the Arizona Republic fell on deaf ears, and probably my interest in LHO leaving Galveston for Helsinki via France and England is of an equally mind-numbing effect for these folks. But I am wondering whether the McLendon/Murchison operation known as Radio Nord, which parallels the journey of LHO to the USSR (and back), is part of one related story. Same individuals lurking in the background, etc., etc. If you are remotely interested, I will put you on my general investigatory mailing list that is concentrating on the radio investigation - which is now colliding with the JFK investigation. (I have circulated to the other mailing list reproductions of the LHO passport and FBI letters, etc., posted by you. Now they have a totally different context!) 

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Mervyn,

Yes, the Warren Report's claim that "on the same day, he flew to Helsinki" is incorrect. The stamps in Oswald's passport show that he arrived in the UK on the 9th and left on the 10th. Compared to what else the Warren Report gets wrong, it's a trivial mistake, and I don't think we should read too much into it.

As Jason points out, Oswald sailed on two ships to reach England: the Marion Lykes from New Orleans to Le Havre, and the Liberté from Le Havre to Southampton.

Jason,

Thanks for uploading the images. They should make things easier for people to follow.

I agree with you that Oswald was unusually determined in making his way alone to Helsinki, particularly if it involved travelling across London to reach Heathrow, which can be a real pain these days and presumably wouldn't have been any less awkward in 1959.

You write that "My hunch is Oswald imagines himself a 007 James Bond-type figure even though his actual intelligence connections are slight at best." The significance of Oswald's route to reach the Soviet Union lies not in his use of England as a stop on the way but in his choice of Helsinki as his entry point. Helsinki was the only place where a Soviet tourist visa could be acquired quickly, a fact known to US intelligence agencies but (as far as I'm aware) not to the general public. Unless he chose Helsinki impulsively, which seems incompatible with what we know of his normal behaviour, this is pretty convincing evidence that a real connection existed between Oswald and US intelligence and that his defection was part of an intelligence operation.

The question of whether Oswald flew from Heathrow or Gatwick is just a curiosity with no obvious bearing on the JFK assassination. If the triangular "London Airport" stamp was unique to Heathrow, he definitely flew from there; if the stamp was also used at Gatwick, he may have flown from there. I imagined that some sort of online passport-stamp enthusiasts might exist who could resolve the question, but I haven't been able to track any down, sadly.