Who changed the motorcade route?

[Michael Clark]

59 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

And let us not forget that as Rob alludes to above, the Secret Service destroyed  important records after THEY KNEW THE ARRB WANTED THEM!

Horne wrote that the ARRB was very angry about this defiance of their authority. And they actually thought about going public and making a big deal about it.  But he implies that Marwell eventually decided not to.  But they did engage in a series of rather tense letters over the incineration of boxes of records they wanted to see.

" As the HSCA attorney in charge of the motorcade route inquiry wrote, "Any map of Dallas in 1963 shows that it was easy to reach the Trade Mart on streets that join Main on the West side of the overpass."

Again, there was no excuse for that route.  None.

"Sorrels explained that the size and cumbersomeness of the motorcade, along with the presence of a raised divider separating the Main Street lanofromtheElm Streetlaneatthefootoftherampuptotheexpress- way, deterred hiin from trying to route the motorcade under and through the overpass on Main Street. Such a route would have as- signed the drivers in the motorcade the almost impossible task of mak- ing a reverse S-turn in order to cross over the raised divider to get from the Main Street lane into the Elm Street lane. (190) However, this question-and-answer process failed to make clear that the Trade Mart was accessible from beyond the triple overpass in such a way that it was not necessary to enter the Elm Street ramp to the expressway. The motorcade could have progressed westward through Dealey Plaza on Main Street, passed under the overpass, and then proceeded on Industrial Boulevard to the Trade Mart .(191) "

 

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol11/pdf/HSCA_Vol11_Motorcade.pdf

Edited May 27, 2018 by Michael Clark

[James DiEugenio]

Sure as heck sounds to me  like CYA.

[Joseph McBride]

The Industrial Boulevard route supposedly was considered too grungy for a presidential

motorcade, but they would have seen more voters than by whizzing along the freeway

to the Trade Mart. Still, by the time they reached Dealey Plaza, they had

been seen by many thousands of people downtown and on the way from the airport. There was also a time consideration. As it was, the motorcade

was running five minutes late as it entered Dealey Plaza. But the excuses don't

explain the decision to violate Secret Service protocol, which required the limousine

to not to go below 25mph. It was going about 11mph after the dogleg turn onto Elm Street..

Edited May 27, 2018 by Joseph McBride

[Paz Marverde]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The logical answer is that they were getting different signals from different sources.

You synthesized exactly what I think about 

[Paz Marverde]

1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

"Sorrels explained that the size and cumbersomeness of the motorcade, along with the presence of a raised divider separating the Main Street lane from the Elm Street lane at the foot of the ramp up to the express- way, deterred hiin from trying to route the motorcade under and through the overpass on Main Street. Such a route would have as- signed the drivers in the motorcade the almost impossible task of making a reverse S-turn in order to cross over the raised divider to get from the Main Street lane into the Elm Street lane. (190) However, this question-and-answer process failed to make clear that the Trade Mart was accessible from beyond the triple overpass in such a way that it was not necessary to enter the Elm Street ramp to the expressway. The motorcade could have progressed westward through Dealey Plaza on Main Street, passed under the overpass, and then proceeded on Industrial Boulevard to the Trade Mart .(191) "

 

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol11/pdf/HSCA_Vol11_Motorcade.pdf

Thanks again, Michael 

[Paz Marverde]

24 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

But the excuses don't explain the decision to violate Secret Service protocol, which required the limousine to not to go below 25mph

Ditto

[Paz Marverde]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

And when Paz said "totally agree" she said that in response to my statement that the route Kennedy rode on could have been devised by a sniper running the ambush.  And I completely stand by that statement.

Thank you, Jim. That's a fact 

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I won't go into the whole Roberts/Rybka call off,

That's yet another myth that won't die the death it deserves. It wasn't Rybka who was "called off". ....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Lawton-And-Rybka

[Paz Marverde]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorial-cartoons/jack-ohman/article2582975.html

Jim,

thank you very much for this. It confirms something we are working about 

[Joseph McBride]

That''s a really ignorant and foolish article by Jack Ohman. But now I understand

this oft-reported trope about people thinking when they visit Dealey Plaza that it is smaller

than it seems in photos and films. That (willed?) misperception makes it

easier to rationalize the bizarre Oswald-did-it theory that a mediocre marksman

who didn't own the rifle entered into evidence that was misaligned and often jammed was able to shoot

the president through trees and from behind and in front at the same time in less time

than it would take to shoot and aim properly, and somehow hit the governor and James Tague too, even though

no one saw him do it since he was in the second-floor lunchroom at the time.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Joseph McBride

[Rob Couteau]

15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The motorcycle escort

As a follow-up to what Jim said above (this is also from Devil's Chessboard):

"Soon after the assassination, Dillon and others began circulating the false story that Kennedy preferred his Secret Service guards to ride behind him in motorcades, instead of on the side rails of his limousine, and that Kennedy had also requested the Dallas police motorcycle squadron to hang back - so the crowds in Dallas could enjoy an unobstructed view of the glamorous first couple. This clever piece of disinformation had the insidious effect of absolving the Secret Service and indicting Kennedy, implying that his vanity was his downfall. And with Dulles's help, Dillon was able to slip this spurious story into the commission record." (Page 584.) Insidious is the word.

 

[James DiEugenio]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

That's yet another myth that won't die the death it deserves. It wasn't Rybka who was "called off". ....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Lawton-And-Rybka

Excuse me, the whole Roberts/Lawton call off.

Check this out and you will see why the 'myth" is still suspicious  

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[Don Jeffries]

I was the first researcher to contact Henry Rybka's family. During the course of writing Hidden History, I spoke to Rybka's granddaughter, and my friend William Law spoke to Rybka's son on my behalf. The details of those conversations are in the book, but suffice to say I was not persuaded by the revisionist argument that the agent being waved off was actually Donald Lawton, and not Rybka. The conversations we had with Rybka's family certainly didn't persuade me. 

I have the greatest respect for Vince Palamara's work, but I think he was too quick to accept the revised narrative that the agent in question was actually Lawton. We don't really know what Rybka looked like, nor do we know much about him in general. He died way too early, like so many others connected to this case. That little film clip at Love Field certainly looks conspiratorial to the unbiased observer. Whoever the agent was, he appears not to have been in the loop. 

The motorcade route doesn't get as much scrutiny as it should. Neocons in our community have attempted to diminish the significance of the change, and of the actual route eventually taken. Thanks to Jim D. and Joseph McBride and everyone else here who has contributed to a great discussion. 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks for that Don.

I always appreciate people who get out of their computer chairs and pick up the phone.

[Paz Marverde]

4 minutes ago, Don Jeffries said:

Neocons in our community have attempted to diminish the significance of the change, and of the actual route eventually taken

Exactly