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Who changed the motorcade route?


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20 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

BTW, Jim, do you have a copy of the Nov. 20 (Wednesday) DMN? I've always heard (including from you) that the route printed in that day's DMN showed no Elm turn. But I've never been able to find a copy of that paper online. Do you have it? If so, what exactly does it say re: the route? I'm just curious.

 

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

 I do not have the story from DMN on the 20th. My files were given to Bill Davy. 

I've now found the November 20th Dallas Morning News online. It's right there in the WC volumes too, in CE1364. [Duh! ~slaps forehead~] And it does say only Main Street. But it also says that the route would go from "Main" to "Stemmons Freeway", and the only proper (and legal) way to get from Main to Stemmons is via Elm Street. So, really, the 11/20 DMN does actually IMPLY the Houston and Elm turns when it says "MAIN" followed immediately by "STEMMONS".

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Regarding the topic of "TWO DIFFERENT EDITIONS OF THE SAME NEWSPAPER".....

I noticed yesterday (while I was searching the Internet for various Nov. '63 papers) that the Fort Worth Star-Telegram (just like the DMN did) printed up two completely different front pages on 11/22/63. So evidently this habit of "Two Different Editions" wasn't uncommon....

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hotel-texas-jfk.jpg

 

 

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23 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

When you add together the facts about Lawson and Sorrels and their promotion of false witnesses after the fact and Lawson reducing the number of cycles and moving them to the rear of the limo, plus the facts that there really was confusion about the route, and the papers were reporting the wrong route ON THE DAY OF THE MOTORCADE, I mean what more do you need to conclude that something is wrong with this picture?

Let me also add this:  IMO, the reason that Blaine came out with his book is simple.  

Between the works of Black, Bolden and Palamara, plus the SS defiance of the ARRB, the Secret Service had to get something out there to try and deflect the exposure of their unbelievably bad performance in Dallas. And also their cover up about it afterwards.  

Well said, Jim- thanks!

 

See also:

President Kennedy’s Secret Service Protection and the press coverage for JFK

See also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUUcK6G7U_w

AND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2xDQ0IZOOM

 

 

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On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:00 PM, Don Jeffries said:

I was the first researcher to contact Henry Rybka's family. During the course of writing Hidden History, I spoke to Rybka's granddaughter, and my friend William Law spoke to Rybka's son on my behalf. The details of those conversations are in the book, but suffice to say I was not persuaded by the revisionist argument that the agent being waved off was actually Donald Lawton, and not Rybka. The conversations we had with Rybka's family certainly didn't persuade me. 

I have the greatest respect for Vince Palamara's work, but I think he was too quick to accept the revised narrative that the agent in question was actually Lawton. We don't really know what Rybka looked like, nor do we know much about him in general. He died way too early, like so many others connected to this case. That little film clip at Love Field certainly looks conspiratorial to the unbiased observer. Whoever the agent was, he appears not to have been in the loop. 

The motorcade route doesn't get as much scrutiny as it should. Neocons in our community have attempted to diminish the significance of the change, and of the actual route eventually taken. Thanks to Jim D. and Joseph McBride and everyone else here who has contributed to a great discussion. 

 

Thanks, Don. Please see:

Only known footage of Secret Service agents Rybka & Lawton together 11/22/63

and

extended version

 

 

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In the 1960's it wasn't unusual for major city newspapers to publish several editions each day. I took journalism classes under a Prof who was also an editor at the (now-defunct) Louisville Times. Geno Williams, Indiana editor, mentioned several editions daily. The first was (obviously) the Early Edition, then came the Indiana Edition, and while there may have been one more for the metro suburbs, the last was called the Final Home Edition and was sold only in the city.

So I'm not at all surprised by different editions having slightly different content. The edition sans parade route may have been targeted to subscribers outside the area most convenient for accessing the parade route.

Which also brings up the point that Oswald may not have seen the parade route in the newspaper...depending upon which edition he may have read.

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I've been re reading chapter 4 of Vince Palamara's Survivors Guilt, "The Trade Mart & The Mystery of The Motorcade Route".  It was and still is enlightening but yet confusing.  Agents statements contradict each other and sometimes their own over time.  It still is and may always be at least in part a mystery and it seems that was intentional.  That said, I still don't think it was so much a "change" of the route for certain parties within the Secret Service and for that matter the CIA as much as intentional obfuscation.  That the issue of getting from Main and Houston to the Trade Mart was purposefully not finalized or really even addressed. People were let think what they may.  On down Main to Industrial, the "safer" way, or the normal, logical quicker way that was to take the freeway.

This is one of the last things he addresses in the chapter.  "In addition to the change made to it, the motorcade route was largely kept secret, even from key Secret Service and Dallas police officials."  "SSA's Greer, the driver, and Kellerman riding beside him told the WC they had no knowledge of the route."  "DPD Chief Curry testified...not consulted...learned of the route on 11/21/63 via agents Lawson and Sorrels."  "DPD Asst. Chief Batchelor...believed the failure of the SS to inform the police adequately in advance of the exact route... prevented them from adequately organizing their men and taking the necessary security precautions."  "Sgt. Bellah, late in the PM (11/21/63) My Capt. ... wanted me to go with him to the triple underpass.  The NEW (route) was Main, cross Houston, go forward under the underpass, turn right, cross Elm, to the entrance to the expressway.  As you know this was changed to Main-Houston-Elm."  So the "New" route on the evening of 11/21 involved jumping the curbs to get to Elm.  But It was changed to the one taken the net day?  What was the Old route, Main to Industrial?

Chapter 4 starts with this " On November 4, 1963, SAIC of the Dallas Secret Service office, Forrest V. sorrels, prematurely approved the Trade mart as the site for JFK's speech in Dallas; the very day Sorrels was notified by SAIC Jerry Behn about the upcoming trip."  Why?  Who would have suggested it at that point.  Keep in mind this immediate decision was reached 19 days, lees than 3 weeks after Oswald started to work at the TSBD on October 16th.

"The Dallas Times Herald on 11/15/63 ran a headline entitled "Trade Mart named for JFK luncheon".  What this meant to a few thousand people who worked in downtown Dallas and lived to the west or northwest as well as courier's and deliverymen knew was that if JFK was in a parade coming down Main then going to the Trade Mart he would cut over to Elm at some point to access the Only entrance to Stemmons Freeway heading west , from Dealy Plaza, as they did every day.  They didn't jump the curb or go on down to the slower (45mph?) Industrial to take it to Irving or I-35, which is where Stemmons Freeway itself basically ended at the time.  I don't remember the "winos, potholes and auto parts dealers" (though I don't doubt they were there) on Industrial one author mentioned in describing the area several years ago.  I do remember it being Industrial, as in warehouses.  One set of my grandparents lived in Irving for several years before and after the assassination.  We lived in Denver at the time but a year before or after, at the age of about 5 or 7, I remember being taken along with my mother and grandmother down Irving Blvd which turned into Industrial when you crossed into the Dallas city limits.  We went to a warehouse.  A railroad surplus in one on Industrial, they sold everything from furniture to shoes to (sometimes dented) canned goods, I remember seeing other warehouses around.   My point is, even without the wino's etc., taking JFK on a longer, slower route with not a lot of people around to see him was likely never really seriously considered as an option.  But it was pretty well the only one available without going even slower down backstreet with lot's of turns.  Or jumping the curb(s) in the limo.

"The Secret Service premature approval of the Trade Mart by members of the Dallas Office and Floyd Boring, over the objections of O'Donnell, Behn and Bruno made this site an inevitability, and thus narrowed down the routes that could be used, the speed of the limousine..."

"Two agents, Lawson and Sorrels , were on the surface, the principal agents involved in the planning and selection of the route..."  "Lawson told the HSCA He Could Not Identify the person who selected the turn".  Confusingly, (this is Vince, not me - RB) Lawson also told the HSCA on 1/31/78, " He did not accompany Dallas Agent Forrest Sorrels  on the tour of the route which they each say they made together on 11/14/63 (Huh???, What???).  From the HSCA's 3/15/78 interview with Sorrels, we learn a startling detail: "Sorrels recalled that when driving the motorcade route, prior to the actual motorcade, the turned from Main street on to Houston and SA Lawrence was startled to see the building facing them.  He asked Sorrels what building it was and Sorrels told him it was the Texas School Book Depository."...yet the final route included the turn facing the warehouse."

I think Vince, (if I may), leaves some things understated or unstated from my view, I'm not trying to put words into his mouth.   The Secret Service knew the TSBD was there well before the parade.  They also knew their written protocol Required them to secure Any building on a slow turn on a Presidential parade.  They did not.  Personally I don't think this was an accident.  Further, Dallas Special Agent In Charge of the Dallas Secret Service Office Forrest Sorrels knew that when he approved the selection (by whom?) of the Dallas Trade Mart as the site of JFK's speech on 11/4 that a parade down Main Street would likely/logically take him down Elm, past the TSBD.    

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On May 26, 2018 at 12:31 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Paz:

In my opinion, the best answer to this is in Vince Palamara's book. From my cheesy web site, this is part of my review of Survivor's Guilt which addresses the issue. 

 

 

Chapter 4 is devoted to the setting of the motorcade route. This is a key point. Because as anyone who has been to the Dealey Plaza, triple underpass site will know, the two turns made by the motorcade into the plaza, onto Houston and then Elm, created an almost ideal situation for what military assassins call an L shaped ambush. That is a slow moving target, vulnerable to snipers from concealed places at three points surrounding the target. In addition, the location allowed for easy exits since there were parking lots adjoining at least two sniper locations: the Depository and the grassy knoll. Palamara does some good and interesting work in regard to the mystery of how this bizarre, indefensible route was chosen. He states that considering the fact that agent Gerald Behn, White House assistant Ken O'Donnell and Kennedy advance man Jerry Bruno were all opposed to the Trade Mart as the dinner destination, its seems odd that it was ultimately chosen. (pgs. 98-101) As late as November 14th, there was no dogleg on the motorcade route. The route came straight down Main Street. (ibid, p. 102)

The author makes the case that the two men who added the dogleg onto Houston and Elm Streets were Secret Service agents Forrest Sorrels and Winston Lawson. There were other routes possible, and the motorcade route was not automatically determined by the selection of the Trade Mart. (ibid, p. 103) Palamara later adds that the final route was not actually decided upon until November 20th. He feels that this change, which included the dogleg, was kept secret after being authorized in Washington by agent Floyd Boring. In a suppressed Commission document the author found, the assistant police chief, Charles Batchelor, revealed that the secrecy about this change in the route made it hard for the local authorities to furnish any help to the Secret Service. (p. 105) Another witness, Sgt. Sam Bellah told the author that the police did not know about the route change until the evening of November 21st. Bellah said the original plan did not have the motorcade pass in front of the Texas School Book Depository. Bellah said that his commander, Captain Lawrence, came to his home late on the evening of the 21st. He took him to the triple underpass to show Bellah the new route for the motorcycle advance escort, of which Bellah was a part. (ibid) Bellah said that there was never any explanation as to why the route was changed at the last moment.

Another local policeman, Captain Orville Jones told author Larry Sneed the same thing. That the motorcade route was changed just prior to the 22nd. Jones told the author that many people he knew in the Secret Service did not approve of going through Dealey Plaza at all. There were other routes discussed which avoided the triple underpass. (ibid)

Another witness to this strange alteration was motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale. Dale said that there was more than one route discussed and reviewed by the police. In fact, three had been bandied about. Dale said it was not until Kennedy's arrival at Love Field that morning that he was alerted to what the actual route was going to be. (ibid, p. 106)

Winston Lawson told the Warren Commission that the dogleg was necessary, "Because it is my understanding there isn't any entrance to the freeway on Main Street." (ibid, p. 108) But as the HSCA correctly noted, " ... the Trade Mart was accessible from beyond the triple underpass in such a way that it was not necessary to enter the Elm Street ramp to the expressway. The motorcade could have proceeded westward through Dealey Plaza on Main Street, passed under the underpass and then proceeded on Industrial Boulevard to the Trade Mart." (ibid) In fact, this is the route that Jones thought Kennedy would take that day. As the HSCA attorney in charge of the motorcade route inquiry wrote, "Any map of Dallas in 1963 shows that it was easy to reach the Trade Mart on streets that join Main on the West side of the overpass."

Compounding this shockingly poor choice of a route was the fact that Secret Service protocol was then broken while it was being navigated. Two years before Kennedy's murder, Mike Torina, Chief Inspector, stated that whenever a motorcade must slow down for a turn, the entire intersection must be checked in advance.(p. 109) That did not occur here.

James Rowley wrote to the Commission that he had no knowledge of who actually released the motorcade route to the press. This seems another deception by Rowley. Palamara says it was Betty Forsling Harris a Dallas socialite on the local committee, who did so. She was working closely with representatives of John Connally, the Secret Service, and LBJ aide Bill Moyers. Palamara concludes that this false information was given out for purposes of plausible deniability. That is, the Secret Service could later say that the route was purposely advertised in more than one configuration to show that there was more than one option in hand. When, in reality, the Secret Service knew between November 18th and 20th what the actual route was, including the dogleg.

This is a quite disturbing issue. In and of itself it seems simply bizarre that Lawson and Sorrels would choose this incredibly dangerous route. But then to not protect the president as he was going through this dangerous path is even more bizarre.

Once this route was chosen, then the only way it could be made secure was by the Secret Service being supplemented by local law enforcement agents i.e. the police, the sheriff's office, military intelligence. Again, none of this happened. According to the author, Sheriff Decker told his men not to participate in any security operations. Palamara then writes that the local Dallas police force was called off the night before by the Secret Service. (p. 118) Captain Will Fritz was supposed to commander a detail riding behind the Vice-President with rapid-fire machine guns. According to two sources, this was changed the night before. Instead, this detail was sent to the Trade Mart to protect the speaker's stand.

Palamara now brings in witnesses like former Eisenhower press secretary Jim Haggerty, and former agent Darwin Horn who state that supplementing the Secret Service with local police was a common practice. He then quotes Winston Lawson as denying this before the Warren Commission under oath. His specific words were, "This was not usual procedure." (ibid)

Palamara now makes a penultimate point about the arrangement of the motorcade. Military aide Godfrey McHugh almost always rode in the president's car on these occasions. Yet, in Dallas, another anomaly took place. In Dallas, he was asked by the Secret Service "for the first time" to "ride in the back, instead, as normally I would do, between the driver and the Secret Service agent in charge of the trip." (p. 119) The reason given was this would allow the president fuller exposure to the crowd. As Air Force aide, one of McHugh's duties was to supervise Air Force One.

Finally, the author notes that Batchelor told the Commission that he did not think any local authorities were in place below Houston Street. He then quotes William Manchester as writing, "Possibly [Police Chief] Curry's department met its responsibilities by deciding to end supervision of Friday's crowd at Houston and Main, a block short of the ambush ... " Manchester then added, perhaps for ironic effect, "The weakest link in downtown Dallas was Dealey Plaza." (p. 120)

As Palamara points out with detailed accuracy, everything about this route, from its unnecessary choice, to the lack of supporting personnel, to the violation of protocol, to the secrecy about which route was actually to be used, to the almost incredible lack of protection at its most exposed point, cried out for a thorough investigation. To put it mildly, that did not happen.

 

 

 

It is not often that I have the time to drop by and see what's doing on the London Forum, but--sitting in a Starbucks on a lovely Memorial Day--I decided to do just that. What immediately caught my attention was the title of this thread. . "Who Changed the Motorcade Route?" etc. And these long-winded paragraphs written by James DiEugenio which, not surprisingly, are completely incorrect.  Its not my purpose to invest a lot of time debunking a windbag, but let me try to set the record straight.

I'm writing what follows, from memory, because this was an issue that I carefully investigated, decades ago.  The Dallas motorcade route was something I pursued, in great detail, in the very year (or two) after I ordered my own set of the 26 Volumes (and after I began ordering documents from the National Archives).

There is plenty of reason to believe that the motorcade route was in fact "contrived," but the notion that it was "changed" --i.e., altered at the last minute to include the Dealey Plaza dog-leg--is completely wrong. 

That's not what happened.  The real issue is not that, but how the Trade Mart was selected as the luncheon site.

The governing document--listing in great detail the genesis of the Dallas motorcade route--is to be found in Commission Document 3 ("CD 3"), Appendix A. 

CD 3 was one of the earliest documents submitted to the Warren Commission after its creation, and Appendix A lays out, in detail, the chronology of the decision making process  leading to the motorcade route that was actually followed on November 22, 1963.

Historically speaking, CD 3/Appendix A is akin to "best evidence" when it comes to the genesis of the Dallas motorcade route, and anyone who ignores that primary source, is--in short--just "blowing smoke."

The motorcade route was "test driven" on November 14 (or Nov 15th)--by Asst Dallas Police Chief Batchelor, and SS Field Office Chief Sorrels-- as soon as the luncheon site decision was made.  (Within 12- 24 hours).

The luncheon site decision--i.e., the Trade Mart as the luncheon site, which meant the Trade Mart as the terminus of the Dallas motorcade--was made on either Thursday, 11/14 or 11/15 (I'm writing this from memory).  Within 12 hours, as I recall, the two individuals I mentioned-- Asst. Dallas Police Chief  Batchelor, and Forrest Sorrels --did a "test-drive" from Love Field to the Trade Mart, going  through Dealey Plaza, and then via Stemmons Freeway, which meant entering Stemmons from Elm, which meant driving through  Dealey Plaza exactly as the JFK motorcade drove that route on 11/22/63.

I don't think it matters --at all--what this or that person says he "remembers" years later, even decades later. Go to CD 3/Appendix A, and you will see laid out, in print, the story of how that route was driven on 11/14 or 11/15. That "test drive" occurred within 12 hours of the Dallas luncheon site decision--i.e., the selection of the Trade Mart as the luncheon site.

In other words, the motorcade route, as test driven on 11/14 or 11/15--was designed, from the outset, to pass directly in front of the TSBD, where Oswald had commenced working in mid-October.  There was no need to "change it" or to "add" the dog-leg; it was there from the beginning. The notion that the dog-leg was "added" is a totally bogus issue promoted by DiEugenio et al.  To borrow the language from the debate concerning evolution, that particular motorcade route (and the "crossed-paths" situation that was created, with LHO's location) was present from the outset (i.e., from 11/15, at the latest) and was a case of "intelligent design."

If one wishes to search for what is (perhaps) suspicious, then that question devolves to the issue of why the Trade Mart was chosen as the luncheon site--and certainly NOT whether the "dog-leg" was added "later."

That is a non-issue.

Furthermore, the late Jack Puterbaugh, who I personally interviewed at his Maryland home, back in the early 1970s, had nothing to do with the selection of the motorcade route. IMHO: He is neither a significant (nor a sinister) figure in this affair. (He was practically a bystander to what was taking place; not a decision-making participant).

FYI: The luncheon site decision was made, in Washington, by Kenneth O'Donnell, who was, I am sure, heavily lobbied by LBJ (and, very likely, by Governor Connally).  It was that decision that laid the foundation for the motorcade route (that was "selected"; and that "selection" occurred as a consequence of the "test drive' by Sorrels and by DPD Asst Chief Batchelor).

Furthermore, and for those who want to do serious research in this area, and not spend hours and hours pursuing false leads the lead nowhere, please note the following: when Governor Connally pushed for the Trade Mart as the luncheon site, he had no idea that there would be a motorcade. In fact, and quite to the contrary, Gov. JC  was under the impression that there would not be a motorcade.  So Gov JC was simply aggressively lobbying for a particular luncheon site, unaware that it would be the terminus for a slow-moving "political" motorcade.  (He learned that there was to be a motorcade in the 24 hour period following the "motorcade route" selection", and that led to some very serious conflicts concerning JC and those planning the trip).

As for the maps published in the Dallas newspapers earlier in the week, my advice would be to ignore the "squiggles" in the map, and theories about any particular squiggle) and look at the text of those stories. As I recall, the text--starting on Tuesday, 11/19, clearly describes the route as including that dog leg turn. Perhaps not every story does--I don't have my file in front of me as I write this--but there were definitely stories published on Tuesday 11/19 (and the latest, 11/20) that describe the route as it was actually driven on Friday 11/22/63. So the notion that the dog-leg suddenly materialized as a consequence of a last minute change is flat-out false. 

To anyone who wishes to study this further, and not simply push the "Garrison believed. . [this or that] line," I'd also advise getting a copy of Jerry Bruno's book "Advance Man" (co-written by Jeff Greenfield), which was published around 1971. He talks about the alternate luncheon site, the Woman's Building, and how he thought that would be the final decision, and was surprised at what he experienced as a significant reversal. FYI: I and another researcher talked to Bruno in 1971, when he was on his Los Angeles book tour, and there are unpublished archival documents that are important in that regard.

DSL

5/28/2018 - 6:30 PM PDT

South Orange County, California

 

 

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Despite the wealth of detail in the Secret Service Report, it is a significant deflection of substance that the report contains only one sentence about the crucial

Nov. 14 meeting in Eugene Locke's office in Dallas, when the decision, passed

along from Kenneth O'Donnell in Washington, was made to hold the event at the Trade Mart.

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Thanks, David Lifton, for your post above regarding the genesis of the motorcade route.

Here's a link to Commission Document No. 3 (also known as the "Report Of The U.S. Secret Service On The Assassination Of President Kennedy"). To go directly to "Appendix A", which David Lifton specifically mentioned in his above post, Click Here.

I suppose that most hardline conspiracy theorists probably contend that most of the things we find in CD3 are simply lies invented by James Rowley's Secret Service in the days and weeks after the assassination (seeing as how that SS Report is dated December 18, 1963).

Mr. Lifton is correct when he said a "test drive" of the Dallas motorcade route was driven by police and Secret Service officials on November 14th. However, I can't find any mention at all of any specific streets---Elm Street or otherwise---being mentioned on this page of that Secret Service Report (CD3) where it talks about the November 14th "test drive" (as Lifton calls it).

So when David Lifton said this in his last post....

"Asst. Dallas Police Chief Batchelor and Forrest Sorrels did a "test-drive" from Love Field to the Trade Mart, going through Dealey Plaza, and then via Stemmons Freeway, which meant entering Stemmons from Elm, which meant driving through Dealey Plaza exactly as the JFK motorcade drove that route on 11/22/63."

....I'm wondering where within Commission Document No. 3 Mr. Lifton found the information to support the specific "entering Stemmons from Elm" portion of that post?

I, myself, have no doubt that Lawson and Sorrels did, indeed, travel on Elm Street during that Nov. 14 "test drive", but I just can't find a specific reference to the Houston-to-Elm turn in the SS Report. If you can find one, David L., please point me to it.

BTW, on Page 12 of that SS Report, we find this information which totally demolishes the idea put forth by people such as Fletcher Prouty (and others) about how every single building and window should have been checked by law enforcement prior to the Dallas parade. As we can see here in CD3, no such practice was adhered to by the Secret Service in 1963:

CD3--Page-12.png

 

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Absolutely hilarious.

"Hardcore"?

What the heck is LIfton Davey?    Body snatching, body alteration, fake Zapruder film.

Is that supposed to be what, "softcore" stuff?

So do you buy all that now, or just using him because he threw you a bone, and a pretty licked over on at that? Since you used most of that info already.

Please, when you come up with some research like Vince did, let us know.

In the meantime, we will all go to sleep since it will never happen.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Absolutely hilarious.

"Hardcore"?

I never used that word, Jimmy. I said "hardline". (But I guess there's not too much difference between the two words.)

 

Quote

What the heck is Lifton[,] Davey?    Body snatching, body alteration, fake Zapruder film.

Oh, Lifton is, without question, most certainly an "outer fringe" conspiracy fantasist of the First Order. His theories are as wacky as all get out and totally unbelievable and dead wrong as all get out too. I've been saying that for years.

But there are some occasions when Mr. Lifton (unlike James DiEugenio) makes perfect sense. And David L. has exhibited that "perfect sense" trait on several occasions in the last few years at this very forum. And his last post in this thread is one such example. Although, as I mentioned, I cannot find any support for his claim that the SS Report (CD3) shows that the Nov. 14 "test drive" took the agents down Elm Street. That's nowhere to be found in CD3. And I just now read the entire CD3 document (again).

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:lol::D

You really know how to crack me up before I go to sleep.

In other words, nothing I have ever said about JFK's foreign policy, the Garrison investigation, the ARRB, writers like Waldron and Hartmann, etc etc all of which I have researched and been recognized as an authority on for years by many people, all of that is out the window with you.  Why? Because Lifton threw you a beefless bone.

As I have said, that is what makes Davey, Davey, even at 2 AM

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19 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

In other words, nothing I have ever said about JFK's foreign policy, the Garrison investigation, the ARRB, writers like Waldron and Hartmann, etc etc all of which I have researched and been recognized as an authority on for years by many people, all of that is out the window with you.

I guess I was wrong, Jim. You CAN make "perfect sense" after all. You just did with the quote above.

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11 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Despite the wealth of detail in the Secret Service Report, it is a significant deflection of substance that the report contains only one sentence about the crucial

Nov. 14 meeting in Eugene Locke's office in Dallas, when the decision, passed

along from Kenneth O'Donnell in Washington, was made to hold the event at the Trade Mart.

Joe: Dallas  Attorney Eugene Locke was obviously an important person in the "Dallas establishment." but the reason(s) the Dallas Trade Mart was advanced by Governor Connally as the luncheon site were explained quite well by Connally --as I recall--in the article he published in the 11/22/67 issue of LIFE.  Connally explained that he wanted the proper venue for presenting President Kennedy to the "upscale" business audience (his political backers) who would attend an event at the Trade Mart, but not necessarily one held at the Woman's Building (a more "proletarian" venue. [my quotes]). That's what JC's reasoning was (and yes, Connally was an elitist).   Locke, no doubt, was a member of that "establishment."  And Connally's purpose, he says, was to facilitate JFK's ability to communicate to the business community that they had nothing to fear from John F. Kennedy.  As JFK's former Navy Secretary, Connelly knew that to be the case; but he wanted to advance that view to the Dallas business community.  Viewed that way, It was a reasonable choice, if you were someone in Gov J'C's position.  Did Locke have a hidden agenda, in advancing the Trade Mart as the luncheon site? That's a separate issue (and an important one, but almost impossible to determine).  The problem, more generally stated: Who among those "lobbying" for the Trade Mart did so because they thought it offered a superior venue for a presidential address, and who (if any) had a hidden agenda?   One other thing bears mentioning, and that concerns foreign policy: in 1967 (as I recall), LBJ named Locke to the post of Deputy Ambassador to Vietnam. Not that he was responsible for the subsequent escalation of the Vietnam war, but LBJ's appointment of Locke to that particular  position is, IMHO,  interesting (to say the least); and possibly even significant..

5/29/2018 - 7 AM PDT

South Orange County, CA

11 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Despite the wealth of detail in the Secret Service Report, it is a significant deflection of substance that the report contains only one sentence about the crucial

Nov. 14 meeting in Eugene Locke's office in Dallas, when the decision, passed

along from Kenneth O'Donnell in Washington, was made to hold the event at the Trade Mart.

 

Edited by David Lifton
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