Who changed the motorcade route?

[Steve Thomas]

10 hours ago, David Lifton said:

Steve Thomas:

Thanks for your effort in perusing the Dallas Municipal Archives.

 As you may aware (but maybe you are not) what you are citing  is a small excerpt from the "B-L-S" (or "Batchelor -Lumpkin -Stevenson") combined "Chronological Report" --of the Dallas Police Department-- which is published in its entirety as a "Stevenson Exhibit" in Volume 21 of the WC's 26 Volumes.  As published there, it is an almost impossible-to-read very poor carbon copy, but decades ago, I found a crystal clear copy of this item in the Texas AG's files.  If you (or anyone) can send me their email address, I can send along (later today)  a crystal clear PDF of the entire report, which (as I recall) is quiet lengthy and is dated 11/25/63.  And one of you can post it at a cyber site  along with an "internet link," so we can all study it and discuss it.  

My take on this document (and this is from about 25 years ago): that B, L, and S (the DPD Assistant Chief and two of the 4 Deputy Chiefs) each kept notes (and must have made individual "CYA" records in the two (or three) weeks prior to the assassination);  and then, immediately after JFK was murdered, convened to create this "combined CYA" record (in the spirit of "we had nothin' to do with this") etc.  

Anyway, the full  report was prepared within 3 days, is dated 11/25/63, and was entered into the record (by which I mean the pubic record as published by the Warren Commission), when DPD Deputy Police Chief M W. Stevenson appeared in Dallas before WC Asst Counsel Burt Griffin to give a brief deposition about Jack Ruby and the Sunday (11/24) "abortive transfer" (the WC's delicate  language for the 11/24/63 jail transfer of HO, which then resulted in the murder of their prisoner, LHO).

 

David,

 

Thank you for your reply.

I agree that this combined report is a study in CYA. My personal belief is that this should never have been allowed to take place. Each officer involved should have been required to submit an individual report. Unfortunately, with respect to the Dallas Police Department, you see this happening with distressing regularity, e.g. the combined Turner/Senkel report.

 

The combined Batchelor/Stevenson report is dated November 30th, and was produced, I believe, by the internal investigation launched by Chief Curry on November 29th - coincidentally, the same day that Johnson formed the Warren Commission. Curry's internal investigation was initially launched to find out how Ruby got into the basement to shoot Oswald on the 24th, but soon branched out into other areas, such as the shooting of J.D. Tippit, and reports that Oswald and Ruby knew each other, etc.  The investigation was headed by Captain O.A. Jones. The copy of the 35 page Batchelor/Stevenson report in the DPD Archives is much clearer than the Stevenson Exhibit 5053 that you find in 21H of the WC Hearings and Exhibits.

 

See the HSCA testimony of Jack Revill and Paul McCaghren. Paul McCachren's testimony is very interesting when he talks about a locked filing cabinet containing materials such as the dictabelt recordings of the DPD radio transmissions, and how he took all that material home with him. I corresponded with McCachren for a while. He was, shall I say, rather gruff. He wouldn't give me a copy of the investigative team's files until I made a $100 donation to the Dallas Police Association, which I did.

The materials in the files comprise much of what you find in CD 81.

When McCachren talks about the investigation coming to an abrupt halt after about a month and a half, this is when I believe the DPD gathered up all their stuff and sent it to the Texas AG's office on January 7th.

 

TESTIMONY OF JACK REVILL, CAPTAIN OF POLICE, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo2/jfk4/hscarevl.htm

 

Captain REVILL. If I recall correctly, I believe there has been previous testimony from those particular officers. Sir, if I might explain something here or elaborate. As counsel said, I was assigned, by Chief Curry to an investigative team to determine how Ruby gained access to the basement of the city hall, to determine if there was any complicity on the part of any officers as to their involvement, and if I may elaborate on the findings or this particular group, I would be happy to do so at this time.

 

Mr. SAWYER. Proceed.
Captain REVILL. This particular committee was comprised of Inspector Herbert Sawyer, Captain Westbrook, Capt. O.A. Jones, myself, a Lt. Paul McCaghren, Lt. Frank Cornwall, Lt. Cecil Wallace, and initially a detective, one of my subordinates in the intelligence unit, H.M. Hart, and as I said, it was our function to investigate the shooting of Mr. Oswald by Mr. Ruby.

 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL McCAGHREN, PAUL McCAGHREN ASSOCIATES, DALLAS, TEX.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/mccaghr.htm

 

Mr. CORNWELL. And it was sort of a small special group that was working on that investigation, is that correct?
Mr. McCAGHERN. Yes, it was.
Mr. CORNWELL. In addition to the question of Jack Ruby's entry into the basement, were there other issues that that group worked on?
Mr. McCAGHERN. Several, yes.
Mr. CORNWELL. One of them perhaps being the shooting of Officer Tippit?
Mr. McCAGHERN. Yes, it was.

 

Mr. CORNWELL. At the termination of the investigation, do you know what was done with the evidence?
Mr. McCAGHERN. All the material in our possession was turned over to Chief Curry, who was the chief of police at that time.
Mr. CORNWELL. Would you just basically tell us what types of evidence would have been contained in the package at that point?
Mr. McCAGHERN. These reports were not in-depth investigations. We were trying to field the hundreds of calls that were coming into the police department at that time. It was a cursory type of investigation. It was called to an abrupt halt after about a month and a half. All of our reports were submitted to Chief Curry at that time.

 

Steve Thomas

[Michael Walton]

So let  me  get  this  straight...

There was no way to cross over from Main due to the curb. They didn't  want him on that route since  it would  take him through wino country.

So they figure  to send him down Elm onto the Trade Mart.

And this is....sinister?

I  don't  get it.

[David Von Pein]

Newspaper Articles About JFK's Trip To Texas (Sept.-Nov. 1963)

Edited May 30, 2018 by David Von Pein

[David Lifton]

13 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

David - interesting follow up to Steve's post. I your research have you found any deep biographical info on any of the Dallas police? I'm thinking specifically of Lumpkin and Westbrook. I'm not a researcher, but a long interested party. These two men, and others, were mentioned at some point as being members of the 488th Reserve Military Attachment, but there is to my knowledge no proof of this, and very little is known about the 488th, though it's apparent founder Jack Crichton is a well know personage. 

Hi Paul,

Short answer: "No but. . "  I understand the temptation to look for some specific organization that might prove to be the "key" to finding out the answer to "who". In that regard, and in the spirit of "FYI,"  I telephoned, and had a rather good conversation with, Jack Crichton, back around 1970 (!), as I recall. That was back in the days when I thought he might be "important" because he was connected with a reserve military unit, and also learned that he had something to do with arranging for an interpreter (on Friday night , 11/22) for Marina.  Contrary to any "expectations" that I might have had, he came off as a reasonably normal and energetic and friendly fellow.

To "cut to the chase": It is an enduring mystery (for me) attempting to understand how those who were involved in this plot were recruited, by which I mean: who was "pitched," when did that occur, and by whom was it done?

I can easily imagine the pitch: President Kennedy is a traitor; he's selling out the country to Russia;  its of the highest national importance that he be removed from office, etc etc. All of it total baloney, but delivered with great pomposity by a group of second rate characters out of film like "Seven Days in May."

What I'd like to someday learn is: who (on earth) delivered this pitch, and when?

But if you are familiar with the information coming from the (grad student?) Gochenaur, who had conversations with that SS agent (who "leaned" on the Dallas doctors), you'll get the idea of the way Kennedy was viewed, in some quarters. The question still remains: Who delivered the pitch, and when?  Because someone had to do it.  In the final analysis, if you'll put your thumb against your index finger, and rub. ., and rub again. . that just about represents my (current) belief about how all this "worked."  In the final analysis, and regardless of any "pitch," its all about money.  People who were approached, and who listened, probably said. . "Yes, I can help . . but. . how much is it worth to you?"  And then out comes the money. . and then finally, after this kind of (absurd) conversation, and after financial arrangements are made,  one of them says to the other "We never had this conversation." 

So. . . :  This is not like solving a problem in algebra or geometry or physics. This is a historical puzzle which, by its very nature, is almost impossible to resolve with any finality.

Everything I have written here (above) is speculative, but based on my own general reading, that's how I think this   worked.

WHAT MIGHT HAVE WORKED. . . 

The way to crack into this would have been to conducted a proper "counter-intelligence" investigation, but to do that, one would have to have done what I am sure the FBI does all the time, when they need to test a hypothesis they might have about some security matter: they look at banking records, and try to detect who (suddenly) is "living beyond their means", or appears to have some sort of hidden income. 

Unfortunately, this never occurred--as far as we know--in the Kennedy case. 

Since, as the saying goes, the fish rots "from the top", it is my personal opinion that key figures in this whole mess were DPD Chief Curry and Asst Chief Batchelor.  I also believe that the Deputy Chiefs, including Lumpkin and Stevenson were involved. 

I base what I have written above largely on my understanding of how the assassination was actually carried out, and certain new information that will be published in Final Charade.

Again, and as I stated above, these are my speculations.  Since most everyone has passed on, it will be interesting to see whether this aspect of the JFK case--how this plot was synthesized (i.e., who was actually recruited, and when and how)--will ever be resolved. 

I believe that the publication of Final Charade will help, hut nothing can change the fact that the key players have passed on.  

So any "solution" is going to be elusive, and will always be a matter of inference based on the identification of individual "overt acts". . . in other words, solving this "who done it" will --ultimately--come down to solving the "how-done-it."

If anyone finds what I have written above somewhat obscure, I can only say that that obscurity is deliberate, since it is essential that I be my own "security officer" until my work is published.

DSL

5/30/2018 - 5:50 AM PDT

Edited May 30, 2018 by David Lifton

[Robert Harper]

On 5/29/2018 at 3:39 AM, David Lifton said:

And these long-winded paragraphs written by James DiEugenio

Mr Lipton--I own and have read both editions of each of your books. I also read what you and Jim DiEugenio write here. It is disingenuous - to say the least - to call him "long-winded" when you leave comments that take up a page with all the attendeant details of sitting in an airport or not having written in awhile. I'm not suggesting that is inappropriate - or even uninteresting - but I am suggesting that it is not good sportsmanship to call another out for something also indulged in by yourself. The JFK saga can handle many viewpoints, because the case demands it.  There is the blowing of hot air occasionally, but it is not limited to Mr. DiEugenio.

[Ty Carpenter]

Reading briefly through this thread, it appears there is really no consensus as to how we got to Elm St. that day. 

Does anyone else think it may be possible that the lead car with Curry driving just led the motorcade down that route? And the SS just followed them? We know the SS agents didn't take their duties very seriously on that trip and could have been complacent. 

[David Von Pein]

40 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said:

Reading briefly through this thread, it appears there is really no consensus as to how we got to Elm St. that day. 

Does anyone else think it may be possible that the lead car with Curry driving just led the motorcade down that route? And the SS just followed them?

Oh, come on, Ty. That's silly. The motorcade route was planned and mapped out a week before Nov. 22. And, as I have been pointing out for many days now, everybody who subscribed to the Dallas newspapers knew about the Elm Street turn on Nov. 19! Just read the paper. Surely nobody thinks the Dallas Morning News and Times Herald were part of a plot to take the President in front of the Depository....

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Paul Brancato]

41 minutes ago, Robert Harper said:

Mr Lipton--I own and have read both editions of each of your books. I also read what you and Jim DiEugenio write here. It is disingenuous - to say the least - to call him "long-winded" when you leave comments that take up a page with all the attendeant details of sitting in an airport or not having written in awhile. I'm not suggesting that is inappropriate - or even uninteresting - but I am suggesting that it is not good sportsmanship to call another out for something also indulged in by yourself. The JFK saga can handle many viewpoints, because the case demands it.  There is the blowing of hot air occasionally, but it is not limited to Mr. DiEugenio.

There are certain pairings that must have history, and one of them is Jim/David. From my perspective I find both extremely well informed and well intentioned.

[Steve Thomas]

30 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said:

Reading briefly through this thread, it appears there is really no consensus as to how we got to Elm St. that day. 

Does anyone else think it may be possible that the lead car with Curry driving just led the motorcade down that route? And the SS just followed them? We know the SS agents didn't take their duties very seriously on that trip and could have been complacent. 

Ty,

 

No.

Deputy Chief, R. H. Lunday was the Head of the Traffic Division. He was assigned the duty of making sure the parade route was secure from obstacles, such as cross street traffic, etc.

He delegated this responsibility to Lieutenant Purdue Lawrence. Lawrence submitted a report to Curry on November 21st detailing the plans and personnel assignments for the visit and the parade. They included the officers who would be stationed at the Elm and Houston St. intersection.

You can read his report and plans here:

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0255a.htm

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Larry Hancock]

In addition, reserve DPD officers were assigned to stations on Houston and DPD officers did traffic control at the Houston/Elm intersection.  The motorcade pilot car was driven that route in advance but as Steve said, it was largely in respect to traffic control. DPD was treating the motorcade as a traffic/crowd control problem and its internal security efforts were primarily focused on the Trade Mart because that is were they anticipated potentially violent demonstrations and confrontations.

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Ty,

 

No.

Deputy Chief, R. H. Lunday was the Head of the Traffic Division. He was assigned the duty of making sure the parade route was secure from obstacles, such as cross street traffic, etc.

He delegated this responsibility to Lieutenant Purdue Lawrence. Lawrence submitted a report to Curry on November 21st detailing the plans and personnel assignments for the visit and the parade. They included the officers who would be stationed at the Elm and Houston St. intersection.

You can read his report and plans here:

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0255a.htm

 

Steve Thomas

 

Ty,

 

In the 1950's, a number of cities around the country established "Special Service Bureaus" in their police departments. They were also called "Red Squads". I think the first one was created in New York City, but I'm not positive about that.

One of their ancillary duties was to provide additional security for visiting dignitaries. You can see that happening in Dallas. Members of the Dallas Special Service Bureau were found in the pilot car of the motorcade (Officer's Senkel and Turner) and at the Trade Mart. The Captain of that Bureau was W.P. Gannaway. There were also Detectives of the Bureau stationed at intervals along Main St.

 

Gannaway headed the Special Service Bureau security detail at the Trade Mart. He had delegated the assignments along Main St. to Lieutenant Kaminsky.

You can find Gannaway's report to Chief Curry in the DPD Archives in Box 15, Folder# 4, Item# 6; and Kaminsky's report in Box 15, Folder# 4, Item# 7.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box15.htm

 

When Purdue Lawrence was questioned by the WC, he said:

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you receive another set of instructions or orders after that?
Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; on the evening of November 21, this was the first time that I had attended any security meeting at all in regards to this motorcade. At approximately 5 p.m. I was told to report to the conference room on the third floor, and when I arrived at the conference room the deputy chiefs were in there, there were members of the Secret Service--Mr. Sorrels, Captain Gannaway, Captain Souter of radio patrol, and Capt. Glen King, deputy chiefs, assistant chiefs, and Chief Curry, and one gentleman, who I assume was in charge of the security for the Secret Service. This was the first time I had attended any conferences in regard to the security of this escort, and I listened in on most of the discussion and I heard one of the Secret Service men say that President Kennedy did not desire any motorcycle officer directly on each side of him, between him and the crowd, but he would want the officers to the rear.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Was anything said in that meeting about any special precautions that should be taken in connection with protecting the President?
Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; there was some discussion that centered more around the security down at the Trade Mart than any other place and Captain Gannaway was in charge of the security in that area, and then Chief Stevenson, I believe, was there, and they mentioned that they would have detectives stationed along the route--along the motorcade route, especially in the downtown area.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what were they to be looking for?
Captain LAWRENCE. They were taking care of security, all right, but they did not go into any discussion in my presence. I assume that this had all been, discussed earlier, in fact, when I was called up there, these people were already meeting.

“I assume that some instructions have been given to some members of the CID, the criminal investigation division, and to the men from the special service bureau, and the men specifically assigned to security duties instead of traffic duties. It would be my assumption that this was a part of the assignments given.”

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Michael Walton]

Reading briefly through this thread, it appears there is really no consensus as to how we got to Elm St. that day. 

Ty did you not see the photo showing there is no way to drive  down Main and  be able to cross over to Elm?

It's  physically  impossible  to do unless  Greer wanted to tear out the oil pan on the Lincoln.

[Ty Carpenter]

7 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Reading briefly through this thread, it appears there is really no consensus as to how we got to Elm St. that day. 

Ty did you not see the photo showing there is no way to drive  down Main and  be able to cross over to Elm?

It's  physically  impossible  to do unless  Greer wanted to tear out the oil pan on the Lincoln.

Thanks everyone for the insight and corroborating information.

 

Michael,

Was there not some discussion at one point about a wooden ramp being constructed so they could get over the curb? I remember reading this years back but can't remember if it was just conjecture or if it was actually discussed.

[James DiEugenio]

Lifton called me long-winded?

Thanks Robert.

 

And Von Pein keeps on posting that story he posted days ago about the route being set by the 19th.  Ignoring two facts:

1. The later stories on the 20th and 22nd in the DMN which contradict the dogleg route.

2. Palamara's four witnesses who say the route was changed 24 hours before the motorcade.

I don't know if this has been acknowledged yet, but a lurker has alerted me that there were three editions of the DMN that day. All denoted by a different amount of stars.

Edited May 30, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

And Von Pein keeps on posting that story he posted days ago about the route being set by the 19th.  Ignoring two facts:

1. The later stories on the 20th and 22nd in the DMN which contradict the dogleg route.

2. Palamara's four witnesses who say the route was changed 24 hours before the motorcade.