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Are there any known pictures of the LBJ limo leaving Dealey Plaza?


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I just realized my tunnel vision regarding the assassination and pictures relating to it.  I have never thought about trying to find pictures or film depicting the vice president's departure from Dealey Plaza.  Now that I have, I can't seem to find depictions of the VP's car leaving the plaza.  I may be overlooking them, but the last instance I have noticed is Altgens 6 where many debate the question of whether LBJ is ducked down in the seat.  Can anyone point me to others?

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Yes, based on positioning within the motorcade and the color of the car, it should be.  Not a lot to go on since pretty much only the windshield header appears.  I was really asking about pictures or films occurring  before the limo got to the TUP.  There are pictures showing the camera cars, etc., but not a single photo of the VP car.  Just another one of those coincidences.  It always seems that items/people of interest are just out of frame or blurred.  Very exacerbating.

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Odd, isn't it?  I have looked all over and can find nothing better than David Joseph's suggestion. 

Zapruder frame 133 or so to about frame 155 shows the Johnson vehicle poorly.  You really can't make out much.  You can imagine Johnson there more than see him.  He's not leaving Dealey Plaza but, entering.

The first 10 positions in the Motorcade left while others were held up for various times.  Johnson's security vehicle is the last in this particular group.  I believe you can see bits and pieces of Johnson's vehicle and the security vehicle in McIntyre.  In other words this group is disassociated with the 3rd group containing the camera cars.  The second group, the Mayor's Car and the National Press Car, has conflicting evidence.  Some showing these vehicles with the first group and other films showing a clear road ahead of the Camera Cars.  McIntyre shows nothing behind the first group containing the Presidential parties and the Vice-Presidedntial parties, No Mayor's Car or Press Car.  Dearie Cabell's testimony states that she said they were held up on Houston St or in the intersection depending on where you think she was.   

In the various assassination films the focus is on the presidential limousine and the two Johnson vehicles are generally left out.

I don't think there are any coincidences involved.  I think someone didn't want to be filmed.

Hope this helps.

 

 

Edited by John Butler
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Here is a Robert Hughes scene showing the Vice-Presidential limousine.  Vice-President Johnson is just entering Dealey Plaza.  Bit blurry but, you can make out who is who.

This scene shows that everything was peaceful and calm on Houston Street as the motorcade passed through.  Very shortly the film will corrupt with film distortions, blurs, and a gap as the presidential limousine passes the Court Records Building.  After some time of blurs and distortions the film will skip pass the Court Records Building to the intersection.  7 other films do this also and they skip pass the intersection to Elm Street.  It boggles the mind that 8 films go bad at this point as they pass the Court Records Building.  Wonder what the odds are on that? 

 

 

Edited by John Butler
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  • 1 year later...

Well, first of all LBJ wasn't in a limo.  It was a 1964 Lincoln 4 door convertible.  A 1964 model would be introduced in October of 1963. 

You know, I don't think there is one of LBJ's car leaving Dealey Plaza.  The best you're going to get is Willis 6.  

Randy Owen has a great photographic timeline site.  It's a little bit tricky to use. You have to click and hold on the little scroll button otherwise it'll speed through nearly the whole thing.  There is a film near McIntyre's position beyond Dealey Plaza where children are seen waving at the approaching motorcade who were unaware the assassination had just happened. I can't remember the name of the film. It's in color.  It might show LBJ's car.  

It's the Jack Daniel film. 

Edited by Joseph Backes
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I interviewed Jack Daniel about his film. The children were his.

I asked Mr. Daniel why the panning shot is so off-kilter and

unclear when the limousine passes his position, which is frustrating for the viewer,

to say the least. He said apologetically

that was because he was holding the camera at his chest while panning and was not

looking through the viewfinder because he wanted to watch

the motorcade with his own eyes. Zapruder was a better cameraman; under

the circumstances, he did amazing work. Also Daniel was too close

to get perspective, which helps account for the blurring. Zapruder was savvy enough to pick a good spot (as

was AP photographer James Altgens, though he froze at the head

shots and didn't take that photo after refocusing for it).

But we need to see the Babushka Lady's film . .. 

Edited by Joseph McBride
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Yeah, that sounds right.  We have to be grateful we got what we got from normal, amateur photographers.  Think of all the different types of camera and film that was used.  Photography is a difficult skill to master.  I'm glad it was in the analogue era.  I've collected a few of the camera types, the specific make and models that the more well known films and photographs were taken in.  I think Elsie Dornan, if I got that name right, also did not look through the viewfinder.  She took film looking out a window in the TSBD.  I kind of wish I could somehow go back in time and tell them how to use their cameras properly. or even to tell the professionals.  Imagine if Altgens took a photo right around the time JFK's head exploded.  He said he was about to but froze at the horror of it.  Imagine that image and what might be visible on the grassy knoll.   

I think the images have told us all they can.  It's best to spend the time reading the documents.  

Joe

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The amateurs that day put the work of the professionals to shame. 

But there was a CBS cameraman in the motorcade who had

his 16mm camera aimed at JFK when the first shot was fired. He

whipped his camera up to the TSBD and back to JFK. Naturally

that film disappeared. Probably because no one was shown in the window.

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On 7/21/2018 at 6:26 AM, Richard Price said:

I just realized my tunnel vision regarding the assassination and pictures relating to it.  I have never thought about trying to find pictures or film depicting the vice president's departure from Dealey Plaza.  Now that I have, I can't seem to find depictions of the VP's car leaving the plaza.  I may be overlooking them, but the last instance I have noticed is Altgens 6 where many debate the question of whether LBJ is ducked down in the seat.  Can anyone point me to others?

Richard,

This is from Bronson.

I've stabilized the VP's car for you.

The last known sighting within Dealy Plaza that I know of.

Bronson.gif

 

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Bronson appears to show the presidential limo slowing, in relation to the motorcycle escorts, the Queen Mary, and the VP car. 

That conflicts with what the existing Zapruder shows: a constant limo speed in relation to the background. 

I'm sure the LN'ers will conclude from this that Bronson has been altered.

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18 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

Bronson appears to show the presidential limo slowing, in relation to the motorcycle escorts, the Queen Mary, and the VP car. 

That conflicts with what the existing Zapruder shows: a constant limo speed in relation to the background. 

I'm sure the LN'ers will conclude from this that Bronson has been altered.

Mark,

I don't want to hijack this thread, I'll just briefly point out in the upper right-hand corner, just before the camera jiggle(notice the right side film edge) the flash that occurs.

This occurs after the extant z313 head shot seen on Z.

I pointed this out in another topic long ago.

Watch the slowing limo and Jackie's hand in concurrence with this.

 

 

 

 

 

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Tom Craven of CBS has his camera to his face right on the corner of Main and Houston in a color Skaggs photo. He filmed the Newmans. He was side by side with Tom Atkins in the only color photo that Art Rickerby took in Dealey Plaza. The film was allegedly ruined during its development at KRLD. All of his other films survived.

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