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Where is the exit?


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3 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Reprise....

Cory,

Are you sure this isn't in reference to a technician who was assisting the morticians (after the autopsy was completed) in attempting to piece JFK's head back together as much as they could for a possible open-casket funeral? (Sure sounds like it to me.)

Could be, its been a while since I saw it.  I thought he was in the military.  They asked him to x-ray the skull.  I fail to see why they would have him do x-rays if autopsy is complete however.

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4 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

They asked him to x-ray the skull.

Oh, yeah. You did say it was an X-ray technician, didn't you? Well, that might not be connected to the post-autopsy skull reconstruction then. But, I don't know.

Anyway, if you've got a cite handy, I'd like to see it. Thanks.

Edited by David Von Pein
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On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 4:46 PM, Ron Bulman said:

I've believed for years Dr. Perry's repeated statement on the afternoon of 11/22/63 that the throat wound was an entrance wound.  Before Secret Service Agent Moore spoke with him and other doctors and nurses in early December.  After that he backed up, waffled and tap danced.  Maybe, I guess, it could have been an exit wound or words to this effect.  He was an experienced emergency room doctor in a hospital that received patients with gunshot wounds on a regular sometimes daily or multiple per day basis.  He had seen likely hundreds of entrance and exit wounds and knew the difference.  He said it was a small entry wound within a couple of hours after he had cut it open further to perform the tracheotomy.  And repeated this when questioned.  He still Never came back and said it Was an exit wound.

As to where is the exit...  I wish Bob Prudhome still posted here.  His posts were logical and reasonable based on his EMT and hunting experience.  I'm not an anatomy expert though I understood the basic concepts in Biology 101 and I used to hunt in my younger years.  I don't think there was an exit wound.  The subject has been discussed on the forum in depth in years passed before I joined but read it often, the subject of frangible bullets.  It's been speculated about in regards to the back, head and neck wound.  Somebody thought that's why there was no exit wound for the back entry wound if the throat wound was also an entry wound.  Somebody thought a right temple shot with one was responsible for the "star" disbursement of tiny metal particles going from front to back (more at the front fading to less/none at the back) in one of the xrays.

My point is if a bullet used on the throat was small caliber and frangible their likely wouldn't be an exit wound.  Small game frangible bullets are designed to, after penetrating the skin, basically explode on impact, disintegrate when they hit muscle or say a wind pipe.  Since the idiots in Bethesda either chose not to or were prevented from following standard autopsy procedure and dissecting both the throat and back wounds we'll likely never know for sure what happened to the bullet from the front throat entry wound.

I googled "small caliber frangible bullet".  I think this short article explains the concept better than I.

https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/frangible-varmint-bullets-big-game/

Jim, this post was a serious effort to address your question.  I guess redundancy is sometimes the only way to address the hijacking of a thread.  I still wish Bob still posted.

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1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Where is the exit wound?

I can easily answer that one.....

There is no "exit" wound for the alleged "entrance" wound in the throat----because the alleged entry wound in the throat was really an exit wound --- just as the 3 autopsists said in the official autopsy report.

But, of course, as far as most conspiracy theorists are concerned, this Official Autopsy Report of President Kennedy might as well have "Charmin" written across the top of it. That's how it's treated by CTers anyway. They think it's a worthless and useless document, worthy only of being flushed. (A pathetic way to treat such an important document, to be sure. But that's the way it is in Conspiracy Fantasy Land.)

 

Edited by David Von Pein
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4 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

I can easily answer that one.....

There is no "exit" wound for the alleged "entrance" wound in the throat----because the alleged entry wound in the throat was really an exit wound --- just as the 3 autopsists said in the official autopsy report.

But, of course, as far as most conspiracy theorists are concerned, this Official Autopsy Report of President Kennedy might as well have "Charmin" written across the top of it. That's how it's treated by CTers anyway. They think it's a worthless and useless document, worthy only of being flushed. (A pathetic way to treat such an important document, to be sure. But that's the way it is in Conspiracy Fantasy Land.)

 

How America works in two quotations:

Quote

The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above the level of the deceased.

and...

Quote

Upon reflecting the scalp multiple complete fracture lines are seen to radiate from both the large defect at the vertex and the smaller wound at the occiput.

above and behind?

vertex, meet occiput.

 

Vertex, looking down: Hi occiput!

 

Occiput, looking up: Hi vertex!

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Ron:

That is an interesting link.  Thanks for that one.  And yes that would be a possibility.

Makes more sense than Thompson's idea of the anterior neck wound being a deflection from the skull.

BTW, I liked most of Bob's posts also.  He really did know a lot of stuff about ballistics and he knew if firsthand.

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23 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ron:

That is an interesting link.  Thanks for that one.  And yes that would be a possibility.

Makes more sense than Thompson's idea of the anterior neck wound being a deflection from the skull.

How could a deflection from the skull cause the hairline fracture of the right T1 transverse process?...And then exit the throat??

How does a frangible bullet enter the back or the throat and not show up on x-ray?

Would it kill the Experts among us to do some elementary homework?

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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17 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Reprise....

Cory,

Are you sure this isn't in reference to a technician who was assisting the morticians (after the autopsy was completed) in attempting to piece JFK's head back together as much as they could for a possible open-casket funeral? (Sure sounds like it to me.)

 

17 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

I'd still like to see your citation regarding the X-ray technician. Do you have a quick link?

This seems like what I would expect from a guy who catalogues more internet arguments on their blog than evidence. DVP surely knows that Cory was referring to the combined statements of John Ebersole and Jerrol Custer, but instead of starting a discussion about those two, DVP instead plays the dead-end approach of 'needlessly stalling by asking clarification on something that is already known'. Old forum tactic.

Edited by Micah Mileto
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43 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

DVP surely knows that Cory was referring to the combined statements of John Ebersole and Jerrol Custer...

Huh? Cory said nothing about it being a "the combined statements" of two different techs. Cory said....

"...the x-ray tech who testified I believe to the Assassination Review Board that he was told to tape pieces of skull together to make sure it looked like one piece..."

And Cory seemed unsure about it when I asked him for clarification. But the part about "taping pieces of skull together" sure sounds to me like POST-autopsy work done by the morticians.

 

Edited by David Von Pein
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Couple of things,

 

First the story of finding the bullet at the autopsy is confirmed here, page 76.

https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Reed_10-21-97.pdf

Second,  the x-ray technician Custer clearly explained that several x-rays were taken yet 2 to 3 are missing.  Why?  Where are they?  This causes a doubt as to the 3 that are available.

Third, Sandra Spencer, Petty Officer, developed photos, testified for the Board, stated she saw a blowout to the back of the skull.  This was base don post mortician photos and the hole to the back of the skull was still there.  This clearly disproves the photos of his head showing the back intact.

Fourth, 

http://assassinationofjfk.net/most-jfk-medical-evidence-would-not-be-admissible-at-trial-doug-horne/

 

I will find the exact video for you about the skull being taped.  However, if the above is not enough, well, that is a lot of evidence which you are discounting.

As a trial lawyer, I cannot discount that much evidence.

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1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:

...the story of finding the bullet at the autopsy is confirmed here, page 76.

You need to back up to Page 75 of that ARRB deposition of Edward Reed, because you, Cory, have totally misrepresented what Reed was talking about when he mentioned a "bullet". He was clearly talking about being aware during the autopsy that a bullet had been found in Dallas. He wasn't referring to any bullet being recovered from JFK's body during the autopsy.

In fact, when discussing whether any bullet was found by the autopsy surgeons during the autopsy, Reed specifically said these words on Page 77 of his 1997 ARRB deposition --- "But there was no bullet."

And to show how bad Mr. Reed's memory was about some things in 1997, he stated he was pretty certain that President Kennedy's body arrived at Bethesda at about 4:30 PM on November 22nd. (Mr. Reed apparently was not even aware of the fact that JFK's body didn't even land in Washington on Air Force One until 5:58 PM on 11/22/63, which means his "4:30" body arrival time is impossible.)

With blatant errors like that "4:30" mistake on display in Mr. Reed's deposition, it makes you wonder what other things Reed might have misremembered 34 years after the assassination.

ARRB Footnote....

Interestingly (and humorously) enough, according to that document issued by the ARRB which features the testimony of Edward Reed, apparently little 2-year-old "John F. Kennedy, Jr." was the President who was really assassinated in Dallas.

Well, I guess this means that even an Assassination Records Review Board can make an honest mistake every now and then. :)

 

Edited by David Von Pein
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You only discount evidence of people who were actually at the autopsy because they make a simple mistake over the time and add "Jnr" to the end of  the President's name, if you are DVP.  He consider these "blatant errors" because they disagree with his arguments.

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I still stand with Cliff Varnell here. The bullet hole location in the back is vital, and its location should be unquestionable at this point to researchers, given Boswell's original autopsy face sheet, Burkley's notation in the death certificate, and the incontrovertible evidence provided by JFK's coat and shirt. 

Where the throat wound exit was can probably be added to the countless questions left unanswered by those who gave President Kennedy what Harold Weisberg called an autopsy "unworthy of a Bowery bum." 

 

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