JFK Secret Service Agent: hole in windshield of limo!

[Joe Bauer]

43 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

Joe,

In addition to the different sounds of the shots reasonably proving multiple firearms in use that day, I would add the different ammunition types in use also reasonably prove multiple firearms used by multiple shooters.  Full metal jacket rounds that penetrate and keep penetrating (the through the windshield throat shot, the bullet found on the stretcher).  Fragmenting rounds that penetrate then break apart / mushroom (the head shot, the fragments left in JBC's wrist and leg).  

Thanks 

Yes Rick.

The magic bullet fell out almost pristine onto a stretcher after hitting and fracturing bones inside of Connally?

Yet the same type of bullet "explodes" upon hitting JFK's skull bone?

JFK's head shot bullet exploded his head's internal mass out with such force it sprayed brain, blood and bone matter all over the car and it's occupants ( even into Kellerman's and Greer's partition blocked compartment up front ) and even onto the front of the two Dallas PD motorcycle escorts following behind the limo.

And wasn't there even a JFK skull bone fragment found in the street?

JFK's head shot bullet was obviously an exploding on impact missile.

That's such a contradicting impact effect between supposedly similar bullets it's ludicrous to downplay or dismiss this fact and it's importance.

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

On 9/4/2018 at 10:15 AM, Rick McTague said:

 

Regarding the indentation in the upper windshield frame;

This anomaly obviously seemed important enough for the WC to bring it up and ask Kellerman about it.

Of course it was important because the indentation looked as if it could have been made by another bullet other than the ones that struck JFK which would open up serious questions of more more than 3 shots, more than one shooter, different bullet trajectories etc.

Kellerman's answers to questions about when he noticed this frame damage revealed he wasn't sure when this indentation occurred which suggests that it could just as possibly have happened during the volley of shots into the car on 11,22,1963 as any other time.

However, since Kellerman had ridden in the car several times not long before 11,22,1963 and was in extremely close proximity to this windshield frame damage ( right in front of his eyes?)  and he testified he didn't notice this starkly visible bent steel damage and hole until after 11,22,1963, one must reasonably give at least some extra weight to the probability that the indentation wasn't there before 11,22,1963.

And wouldn't it be a basic assumption that a thorough and objective examination investigation of the limo for what it revealed in damage evidence that this windshield inner frame bullet hole appearing damage would be a top priority in this effort?

Whatever caused this indentation into the inner windshield frame came from the same directions as the bullets fired at JFK, and to make an indentation that deep into solid steel and bend the steel all around this must have had great solidity and a tremendous velocity force equivalent to or even more so than that of a powerful arm blow with a ball peen hammer. 

Flying bone alone could not have created that frame indentation.

Was the indentation studied for rim scrapings and residue inside of it?

Too bad the limo was immediately hijacked and torn apart so quickly with very little chance for other forensic experts to study it and report their findings with more thorough and objective analysis and transparency.

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Edited September 16, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

On 9/5/2018 at 9:52 AM, Joe Bauer said:

 

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Look at that relatively large, ugly and starkly obvious inner windshield frame damage and tell us you wouldn't notice it the entire morning of 11,22,1963 if you were the person or persons responsible for securing, preparing and moving the limo and/or driving it through 99% of the Dallas motorcade with it a mere two feet in front of your straight ahead driving gaze.  

Whatever hit that windshield frame did so with such weighted force it lifted, bent and buckled the surrounding steel all around the depressed indentation for inches.

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Joseph McBride]

I am enjoying reading Vince's new book, WHO'S WHO IN THE SECRET SERVICE: HISTORY'S MOST RENOWNED AGENTS.

There is a lot of new material on agents we know about and much fresh information on some who are less familiar. The material is often surprising and arcane, which I always hope to find in books related to the JFK assassination. The book does not cover only that assassination but also deals with agents from other eras.

Throughout it all runs Vince's vast and deep knowledge of the subject matter, his indefatigable research, and his ability to connect dots hardly anyone knew existed until he started writing his books. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Joseph McBride

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/3/2018 at 1:59 PM, John Butler said:

Thanks Pamela Brown for pointing out the Cimino and Fetzner post,

From Tampering with the limo in the JFK Altgens6:

In the article is this "That shirt was so distinctive it forced the CIA to try to alter it out of existence, where alterations to Altens6 were even made to impose facial features of Lovelady on Lee."

I posted several years back on the Altgens 6 and the Oswald figure, Doorway Man, having a face mask of Billy Lovelady imposed to disguise whoever Doorway Man was.  I'm glad to see Cimino and Fetzner agree.

Actually, they got there first with the idea and I am agreeing with them.  Most people when they saw this argument treated it if it was rank heresy.

I hate to disagree with Cimino and Fetzner on one point.  The CIA probably had nothing to do with Altgens 6.  If you follow the timeline and Uncle Walter showing it on the CBS news that day then the retouching or editing more than likely took place at the Dallas Morning News or the AP hq. 

The Altgens 1-6 was uploaded to the newswires quickly after the assassination.  Not enough time for it to be 'altered'.  However, some of the newspaper copies, as a result, are messay and have anomalies.  Hence the confusion.

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/4/2018 at 12:00 PM, Joe Bauer said:

In my opinion, this Kellerman answer of the later gun firing sounds being "very much so" different from the first firecracker sounding one is clearly more important in what it implies than not and that it is also absurdly illogical to not recognize and seriously consider this.

This difference in the sounds and intensity of the shots could be solid proof that there was more than one shooter and one gun being fired at JFK in Dealey Plaza on 11,22,1963. 

Kellerman's description of the difference using the analogy of the sound a passing jet makes when surpassing the sound barrier versus a firecracker sound may not be the most relatively experienced and understood one but it's clear in it's message that the difference was "significant." 

When I think of a jet flying over me and creating a sonic BOOM I remember this sound as being so powerful you "felt" it's intensity. Almost like a close by thunderclap. Most people instinctively duck down a little from this powerful blast.

Whereas a firecracker sound or even a car backfire sound may startle you also but not near as much as a sonic boom, especially if these firecracker and backfire sounds aren't right next to you.

It's a point and question of intensity.

All three or more shots occurred on Elm Street in a short 4 to 5 second time span and only 75 feet apart ( 190 ft first shot-265 ft last head shot ) and in the same physical landscape tunnel like location where the acoustics ( including echos ) should have been relatively the same.

With no significant difference in shot target and acoustic location ( and alleged origination? ) how does one rationally explain or dismiss Kellerman's firm recollection of the latter shot sounds being distinctly different from the first one - firecracker versus sonic boom?

And many other ear witnesses in Dealey Plaza that day also stated that the gun shot sounds differed, most commonly in their intensity. Firecracker pop ( first shot ) versus BOOM later shots. Echoing Kellerman's WC sworn testimony.

All of which makes it more reasonable to consider different guns were firing at JFK.

 

 

 

Makes sense to me.  Interesting that Kellerman, whom I think knew the assassination was going to take place, and falsely attempted to claim that JFK spoke when he was shot, would provide us with this significant testimony to there being multiple shooters. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Pamela Brown

[Pamela Brown]

10 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

I am enjoying reading Vince's new book, WHO'S WHO IN THE SECRET SERVICE: HISTORY'S MOST RENOWNED AGENTS.

There is a lot of new material on agents we know about and much fresh information on some who are less familiar. The material is often surprising and arcane, which I always hope to find in books related to the JFK assassination. The book does not cover only that assassination but also deals with agents from other eras.

Throughout it all runs Vince's vast and deep knowledge of the subject matter, his indefatigable research, and his ability to connect dots hardly anyone knew existed until he started writing his books. 

Vince definitely has a gift for gathering information -- and photographs -- and stirring up conversation.

[Vince Palamara]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 2:03 AM, Joseph McBride said:

I am enjoying reading Vince's new book, WHO'S WHO IN THE SECRET SERVICE: HISTORY'S MOST RENOWNED AGENTS.

There is a lot of new material on agents we know about and much fresh information on some who are less familiar. The material is often surprising and arcane, which I always hope to find in books related to the JFK assassination. The book does not cover only that assassination but also deals with agents from other eras.

Throughout it all runs Vince's vast and deep knowledge of the subject matter, his indefatigable research, and his ability to connect dots hardly anyone knew existed until he started writing his books. 

Thanks a lot, Joe! I appreciate it.

[Chris Bristow]

I found this interesting. The alleged Altgens 6 bullet hole  has a heart shaped center(Left), and so does this image of a bullet hole in a windshield. I cropped it but several of the holes in that image had the heart shape. I think it has something to do with the angle of the windshield which tends to cause the hole to be bigger at the top,

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Chris Bristow

[Joe Bauer]

Views sought regarding the number of bullets fired at JFK and their sequence.

Which account is true?

3 shots ... with the first shot missing everything and then the second shot hitting JFK and going thru him to hit Connally and the third shot hitting JFK in the head?

3 shots ... with the first shot hitting Kennedy in the back, the second hitting JFK in the head and the third shot...?

4 shots ... the first missing everything, the second shot hitting JFK in the back and on thru to hitting Connally , the third shot hitting JFK in the head...and the 4th shot?

4 shots ... the first hitting no one, the second hitting JFK in the back, the third shot hitting Connally and the 4th shot hitting JFK  in the head?

5 shots ...  better fitting Roy Kellerman's "flurry" description?

Could any of the shots that didn't hit JFK and Connally be the one that made that obvious and substantial damage inner front windshield frame indentation?

Edited September 15, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Denny Zartman]

On 9/14/2018 at 4:37 PM, Joe Bauer said:

Views sought regarding the number of bullets fired at JFK and their sequence.

Hi Joe,

My own quick accounting of what I know about the assassination seems to indicate eight shots, and possibly more if you believe that JFK's head wound was caused by two bullets striking almost simultaneously.

Misses:

1. Limo windshield trim

2. Grassy turf

3. Street pavement 

4. Curb near James Tague

Hits:

5. Connally

6. JFK's back

7. Front of JFK's throat

8. JFK's head

[Robin Unger]

Limo windshield

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Nara

 

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Robin Unger

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

Nara

 

There's no hole.

Here is what a windshield looks like if it has been hit by a rifle shot:

 

 

 

And here is what a bullet proof windshield looks like if it has been hit by a rifle shot:

 

 

And yet the limo's windshield was definitely hit by something.

My guess is that it was hit by a bullet fragment. What did the WC say about it?

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Sandy Larsen

[David Von Pein]

20 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

And yet the limo's windshield was definitely hit by something.

My guess is that it was hit by a bullet fragment. What did the WC say about it?

The Warren Commission stopped short of saying they thought the windshield and chrome damage was positively caused by a fragment (or fragments) of the bullet which struck the President in the head, but such a conclusion can certainly be easily inferred by the totality of bullet evidence examined in the case and the text written on pages 77 and 558 of the Warren Report....

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0051a.htm

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0291b.htm

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Windshield

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by David Von Pein