Umbrella Man pic?

[Gene Kelly]

Ron

Al Carrier discusses the possibility of an excellent marksman, who fired through the windshield and hit the President.   Or, given the elevations involved, could have gone over the windshield (or through a small space in the frame).   It was only 60+ yards away, with an excellent frontal vantage that didn't change as the Limo slowly advanced towards/into the kill zone.

Beyond the headshot wound issue, I have also aligned this shot origin with the neck wound and have established it by showing Elm at a higher elevation at this point and how the shot would have to penetrate the windshield through its trajectory. This also explains the compromised velocity that would result in a shallower wound path. I have been challenged on this through photos including Altgens 6 and 7 and have provided arguments on both. Because this is already a rather complex subject, I will not go into detail on the throat wound.

Craig Roberts touched on it as well in a May 2006 thread:

My military training once again took over. I would use an area within the Plaza that would afford the best kill zone for either a crossfire or triangulated fire. Simply put, I would position my teams in such a way that their trajectory of fire converged on the most advantageous point to assure a kill. In the military, single snipers are seldom used. Normally, the smallest sniper team consists of two men, a sniper and his spotter/security man. Even in police SWAT teams, a marksman has an observer who is equipped with a spotting scope or binoculars to help pick and identify targets and handle the radio communications.   I would have never put anyone in the School Book Depository with so many locations that were much more advantageous unless I needed diversion. If I did, it would be a good place for red herrings to be observed by witnesses.

In that thread, various knowledgeable posters (Shanet Clark, Ryan Crowe) suggested that the emphasis on Zapruder, the Grassy Knoll fence and the Bookstore Depository are red herrings.  The main sniper was forward and to the left .... and escaped unnoticed.  Regarding the throat wound, the sketch by Dr. McClelland apparently has it right, positing the back wound as exit for the throat wound entrance (which I acknowledge is a controversial topic, and as they say, a two-beer discussion). 

Gene

 

[Robert Harper]

On 10/18/2018 at 1:19 AM, Lance Payette said:

You mean Neville Chamberlain.

Thanks. I feel like an idiot. These Brits I keep getting mixed up.

[Ron Bulman]

On 10/3/2018 at 11:12 AM, David Boylan said:

Based upon James Richards research and things I've learned subsequently,  Umbrella Man was Roy Hargraves. His companion and good friend was Felipe Vidal Santiago. The reason for the umbrella was an F-you for the "umbrella" of air protection being removed from the BOP landing site.

http://www.historynet.com/cold-war-bay-of-pigs-invasion.htm

‘Colonel Frank,’ (Frank Egan?) the American commander in Guatemala, confided: ‘We’ll protect the invasion with an umbrella,’ he said. ‘The air will belong to us. No car can travel without being bombed. We don’t need more men.’

Disaster predicted became disaster realized. Although the invasion was on, JFK was keeping his word to the Alliance for Progress that the United States would not be openly involved in it. He reneged on the CIA promise that an ‘umbrella’ of U.S. fighters would protect the landing; the Navy would perform only picket duty off the Cuban coast; and there would be no follow-up strikes against Castro’s airfields.

 

Bumped regarding the current Santiago/Hargraves thread.

[Matt Allison]

On 10/24/2018 at 6:00 PM, Gene Kelly said:

In that thread, various knowledgeable posters (Shanet Clark, Ryan Crowe) suggested that the emphasis on Zapruder, the Grassy Knoll fence and the Bookstore Depository are red herrings.  The main sniper was forward and to the left .... and escaped unnoticed.

I have never believed the fatal shot came from the famous grassy knoll. The geometry doesn't work. A missed shot or some other smoke/noise to distract and draw people there has always been what I believed happened there.

After spending hours on the south knoll a couple years ago, I became convinced that if there was a shot from the front it almost certainly came from there, at the spot where it connects to the Triple Underpass. 

[Guest]

On 10/3/2018 at 8:25 PM, David Boylan said:

This is the second F-you. 11/22/64. These are Rip Robertson's commandos in the Congo. Robertson is 4th from the left. Juan Tamayo far left. Rene Garcia holding the umbrella. Garcia was Deputy Chief Air Operations Bay of Pigs. He also flew a B-26 during the BOP and was considered one of the more reliable pilots. 3rd from left possibly Ricardo Morales. Morales stayed behind an extra week with Alberto Perez. The other guys came home early Dec 1964. Disclaimer: other than Rip, I don't believe these guys had anything to do with Dallas although they knew a few things from Robertson.

 

A year to the day ... 

[Ron Bulman]

19 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I have never believed the fatal shot came from the famous grassy knoll. The geometry doesn't work. A missed shot or some other smoke/noise to distract and draw people there has always been what I believed happened there.

After spending hours on the south knoll a couple years ago, I became convinced that if there was a shot from the front it almost certainly came from there, at the spot where it connects to the Triple Underpass. 

I've spent about 20 minutes wandering around the South Knoll, crouching down by the last pillar at the end of the walkway.  Seen pictures from then of the young trees, one of the parking lot over the tracks.  About a 100 yard shot, not hard for a practiced experienced sniper.   Have and have read Sherry Fister's book.  Wondered, over the tracks and own the hill after a shot or to a waiting vehicle in the Post Office parking lot.

What I still can't reconcile is back and to the left from the front left.  The geometry, physics, angle of that.

[Matt Allison]

11 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

What I still can't reconcile is back and to the left from the front left.  The geometry, physics, angle of that.

The snap back is consistent with a shot from the front. The movement of the head in the frames after Z313 can be viewed in the pic below. I would note that in the frames after Z313 that Kennedy had lost a very large amount of brain matter from the right side of his head, had lost all muscle control, and the actual weight of his skull at that point would have been heavier on the left, possibly effecting which way it fell.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5934694/figure/fg0080/?report=objectonly

[Denny Zartman]

18 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Bumped regarding the current Santiago/Hargraves thread.

Thanks very much. It's a shame that so many pictures are missing.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've spent about 20 minutes wandering around the South Knoll, crouching down by the last pillar at the end of the walkway.  Seen pictures from then of the young trees, one of the parking lot over the tracks.  About a 100 yard shot, not hard for a practiced experienced sniper.   Have and have read Sherry Fister's book.  Wondered, over the tracks and own the hill after a shot or to a waiting vehicle in the Post Office parking lot.

What I still can't reconcile is back and to the left from the front left.  The geometry, physics, angle of that.

Hi Ron, Is the illusion here the position of the Zapruder camera and the angle of the road, car and JFK’s head? This is the best video I have seen of the South Knoll Gunman angles, there is a full simulation. As Gene’s posts indicate, it’s a logical position for not being detected and having an unseen exit. It’s just 100 yards. It relies on the throat shot through the windscreen and the head shot in the gap. 
 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Chris Barnard

[Paul Bacon]

On 5/1/2021 at 1:15 AM, Ron Bulman said:

What I still can't reconcile is back and to the left from the front left.  The geometry, physics, angle of that.

The video Chris B. linked to shows how that is reconciled.  What I can't reconcile is, if the rear blowout was caused by the shot from the South Knoll, how was it that Bobby Hargis was hit so forcefully by blood and brain matter?  Another shot from the Grassy Knoll?

[Denny Zartman]

I don't really know what to say. I've re-read these threads and tried to look carefully at all the photos. There's just so few of them, and going by the pictures alone, I don't think they're conclusive. I don't think there's anything specifically dissimilar about Umbrella Man and Hargraves, and it's possible that they do look a lot alike. That one picture of Santiago matches up with DCM better, I think. Same body type, same shape of head, same prominent nose.

FWIW, I read up on Hargraves first, and when I saw he was giving interviews in the '90's I thought that was a possible strike against the possibility that he was part of the team there that day. I felt that there was a higher than normal probability that some (maybe most) actual ground-level members of the conspiracy died in relatively short order.

Then, I read the bio of Santiago to discover he died in March 1964. Well, if nothing else, Santiago passed that little impromptu mind experiment.

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

I don't really know what to say. I've re-read these threads and tried to look carefully at all the photos. There's just so few of them, and going by the pictures alone, I don't think they're conclusive. I don't think there's anything specifically dissimilar about Umbrella Man and Hargraves, and it's possible that they do look a lot alike. That one picture of Santiago matches up with DCM better, I think. Same body type, same shape of head, same prominent nose.

FWIW, I read up on Hargraves first, and when I saw he was giving interviews in the '90's I thought that was a possible strike against the possibility that he was part of the team there that day. I felt that there was a higher than normal probability that some (maybe most) actual ground-level members of the conspiracy died in relatively short order.

Then, I read the bio of Santiago to discover he died in March 1964. Well, if nothing else, Santiago passed that little impromptu mind experiment.

Not just died.  Executed in Cuba by a firing squad as a CIA spy.

[David Andrews]

On 5/2/2021 at 8:48 AM, Paul Bacon said:

The video Chris B. linked to shows how that is reconciled.  What I can't reconcile is, if the rear blowout was caused by the shot from the South Knoll, how was it that Bobby Hargis was hit so forcefully by blood and brain matter?  Another shot from the Grassy Knoll?

Well, how would a GK-sourced blowout from the right rear of the skull have spattered Hargis, behind the left rear fender?  The cited blowout spot is already rotated away from Hargis, and toward Chaney.

Edited May 4, 2021 by David Andrews

[Denny Zartman]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Not just died.  Executed in Cuba by a firing squad as a CIA spy.

Quite true. That does say a lot, doesn't it?

[Matt Allison]

I suspect Santiago was somehow involved in the assassination plot, as there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest it.

I just don't think he was DCM; I think DCM was a black man there to wave hello to his President.