Bush not in Dallas- He is dead

[François Carlier]

14 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Why do you believe the WC, M. Carlier, when even De Gaulle suspected CIA-OAS and Dallas Police Department involvement?

Mister Andrews,
I believe the Warren report's conclusions because they are based on facts, logic and science.
Those conclusions have been strengthened a lot by studies and investigations over the years. Facts, logic, common sense, science all go toward the conclusions reached by the Warren commission.
I believe the Warren report's conclusions because for years I tried to check and double-check the information. I read every conspiracy books, met conspiray authors, exchanged messages with witnesses, attended conspiracy conferences, etc. The more I studied the case, the more I understood that the official version was, is, right !
I do not base my conclusions on someone else's opinion, especially if that person knows a lot less than I do on the case. Whoever that person may be. 
One thing is sure : the great Charles de Gaulle never studied the Kennedy assassination case as much as I did. Now, having said that, I honestly must say that I am not aware of what information he had nor what he really believed deep within himself.
If he ever turned up evidence against the official findings, I am certainly not aware of it. If you can show me such evidence, I'm eager to learn about it.
Now, as to his mere opinion, I must say that I am not an expert on that.
All I can say is that it was OK and normal to have suspicions in the sixties. As I write in my book, there is a distinction between "Warren report critics" of the 60's on the one hand and "conspiracy theorists" of the 80's and 90's and after on the other hand. It was perfectly normal to have doubts and questions and suppositions and even theories in the 60's. Why not ? It is sane to have doubts. At the time, we did not have all the answers.
(well, some people may disagree with that way of seeing things).
But TODAY, in 2018, after all the things that we have checked and verified and learned and all the documents now available and all the evidence at our disposal, there can be absolutely no question that Oswald was the sole assassin of John F. Kennedy. And I have no doubt that if Charles de Gaulle was alive today, he would readily admit that the Warren commission's conclusions were valid and right !

Edited December 12, 2018 by François Carlier

[François Carlier]

2 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

 

(mistake)

Edited December 12, 2018 by François Carlier

[David Von Pein]

8 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Now, you agree DCM sits on the curb?

Yes.

 

Quote

You agree DCM looks towards the grassy knoll?

Yes. But, so what? A lot of people were looking (and running) toward the Knoll at that time. DCM was merely watching the various people run up the slope. You actually think that because DCM  merely LOOKED toward the Grassy Knoll, that fact signifies something "conspiratorial" on his part? If so, you're really desperate to grasp any straw you can find, aren't you?

 

Quote

Do you agree he has something up to his face?

Not necessarily. The thing you think he's got up to his mouth might just be part of the person standing to his right-rear. I can't tell. The picture's not clear enough. (See the photo montage below.) But I doubt that he's holding anything at all. He certainly has nothing in his right hand in the clearer picture just to the right of the fuzzier one. And those photos seem to have been taken at almost an identical point in time. Take note of the position of DCM's left hand and arm in both images. The position of that arm looks exactly the same to me.

 

Quote

Do you agree this thing appears to have an antenna?

Very hard to tell. The thing you think is an antenna could easily be something else or a photo anomaly. I can see the same type of "straight white line" formed on the back of the uniform of the motorcycle cop in the very same image. What do you think caused that white line? It's certainly not an antenna on the policeman's back.

But let me ask you this:

Are you really suggesting that Mr. Dark Complected Man was part of some assassination plot, and he just casually and calmly decided to get on his walkie-talkie and radio in a message of some kind to his co-plotters within seconds of the shooting --- right out in the open where he knew he was being photographed and filmed?

Talk about some large-sized gonads! Mr. DCM sure had those, didn't he?

Bottom Line:

All the suspicions about "DCM" and "Umbrella Man" and "Black Dog Man" and (a newer one) "Tan Jacket Man" are nothing more than that --- unsupportable "suspicions" by conspiracy believers who are looking for conspirators behind every bush and retaining wall and oak tree in Dealey Plaza---and even right out in the open on Elm Street with open umbrellas and walkie-talkies while being filmed performing their conspiratorial work. It's just plain (dare I say it again?)----silly.

Edited December 12, 2018 by David Von Pein

[James DiEugenio]

Utterly false conclusions stated above about DCM because they only reason they can be expressed is this:

THE WARREN COMMISSION NEVER FOUND THIS GUY AND THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THEY EVEN LOOKED FOR HIM!

Hold your breath for DVP to ever even imply that this was a serious failing. 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

We have established that the WC never found out who was at Syliva Odio's door and without that knowledge we do not know if LHO was there or not.

We also  established that the Commission never even knew about Cheramie.

DVP did not reply, but there is no evidence that the Commission knew a thing about Richard Case Nagell.

Now let me ask Mr Hoosier this:  did the Commission know that the CIA and the FBI were running operations against the FPCC?  And if they did, did they know that David Phillips was commandeering the CIA campaign? 

 

 

PS. FC does not even read up on his former premier.  DeGaulle did not believe the official story because:

1. He did not believe Oswald was a communist

2. Thought Ruby was the plot's clean up guy so a cover up could be enacted

3.  Did not believe that the security forces of the USA could be so negligent as to let such a thing occur in broad daylight (David Talbot, The Devils' Chessboard, 567-68)

He based these observations upon study of the many attempts to kill him by the OAS and other groups.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[Joe Bauer]

Jim Di, listened to you on KKUP out of Cupertino, Calif. last night with host Dave Emory.

Highly informative as usual.

Regards DCM you would think someone, somewhere that knew him personally  ( family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, room mates, military service members, mail man, doctor, dentist, store employee, etc.) would have come forward with his name in the last 55 years, especially since the pictures of him in Dealey Plaza that day have been so widely published.

DCM appears to have been in his late 40's or mid 50's in those photos.

Someone of that age would probably have had contact with many people over decades.

And his singular enthusiasm in his highly animated, fully extended arm waving at JFK  ( when no one else all the way up into the more crowded part of Elm was doing this at all except the umbrella pumping person next to him) showed someone seemingly politically inspired by JFK and probably not a wall flower and afraid of standing out in a crowd.

The photos above are not totally innocent looking. The upper left photo-white line/radio antenna debate is fair from both sides.

The photo on the upper right shows an odd thing imo and that I have mentioned before.

That is the DCM's immediate decision to place himself mere inches away from the umbrella man sitting on the grass curb seconds after JFK is hit in the head.

The DCM didn't know the umbrella man, correct?

From what I have seen in the photos of the reacting bystanders in that area of the knoll, no one but protective family parents of children and I believe a man/woman couple or two aligned themselves so closely to each other in that chaotic scene like the DCM  did with umbrella man.

They were as close as theater seat mates, could have held hands.  You would think umbrella man might have felt a little eye side glance uncomfortable with DCM saddling up so close to him like he did.

Even friends Mary Moorman and Jean Hill didn't fearfully reach out towards each other at that time.

And the lower left photo of DCM  walking back into the grassy knoll area clearly shows him doing something oddly different than anyone else with his hands at his back right rear area .

Yes, he may have been checking to see if he still had his wallet , although most people carry this in their left rear pocket. He may have had an itch or a little numbness in that area due to sitting on the hard curb just seconds previous. Maybe he was feeling dampness back there from the wet grass next to the curb as it had rained the night before. Maybe he just had this quirk when he walked.  Or, maybe he was re-positioning something out of the ordinary back there.

The fact that DCM has never been identified when almost every other person in those photos has been, just adds logical weight to the nefarious explanation side of his presence and true agenda there that day.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

Joe, 

Dave Emory has had me on for an extended multi week interview for about three consecutive weeks now.  And he wants to continue it until we finish every chapter of Destiny Betrayed. He loves that book.

I did not know his show has a small network of about five other channels throughout the country.

As per DCM, see, what these guys always do is try to dismiss things that any normal person would look at as begin suspicious, and they then say, well heck, not really.

Any investigation of this importance  would have honed in on who the heck DCM really was.  If there way any true inquiry by the FBI, they would have discovered the odd way that he and TUM acted in opposition to everyone else.  And why were they sitting next to each other so closely?  And why did their actions after the shooting continue to be so at odds with the crowd?  To me this is all of the utmost interest.  If the FBI were really at work here, I have no doubt that they would have both been apprehended within a few days, maybe a week or two at the most.  There would have been background checks done, and both would have been brought in for questioning, but separately. I would have even attempted to tap their phones to see if they talked to each other after the murder.  Because to me, their actions would have denoted what they call in the legal trade probable cause. Cory is a lawyer I wonder if he would agree.

That  is what a real  inquiry would have done with the 3 million dollars the WC had.  Which today would come to about 27 million.  And BTW, the FBI does this kind of stuff all the time, that is collect all possible photos and films and examine them for evidentiary purposes.  They did not come close to doing that here.  But we are not supposed to ask why.

Edited December 12, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

DVP did not reply to my query about the if the WC knew that David Phillips ran the CIA's anti FPCC campaign.

Just like he did not reply about whether or not they knew about Nagell.

Let us try something else:  Did the WC know about the Chicago Plot? 

Edited December 12, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[François Carlier]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

PS. FC does not even read up on his former premier.  DeGaulle did not believe the official story because:

1. He did not believe Oswald was a communist

2. Thought Ruby was the plot's clean up guy so a cover up could be enacted

3.  Did not believe that the security forces of the USA could be so negligent as to let such a thing occur in broad daylight (David Talbot, The Devils' Chessboard, 567-68)

He based these observations upon study of the many attempts to kill him by the OAS and other groups.

 

I used to live in Lille, very near "Rue Princesse", where Charles de Gaulle was born and raised. The car in which he rode when the famous assassination attempt occured in 1962 (L'attentat du Petit-Clamart), the famous black Citroën DS, is parked there and you can see it in the garage behind a window. I visited the place when I was younger.
Whether Charles de Gaulle believed that Oswald was a communist or not is not important and has no bearing on the issue of Oswald's guilt.
As for Ruby being, as you write, "the plot's clean up guy", so many people believed that at the time ! They were wrong. It has now been firmly established that Ruby acted alone on a spur of the moment when he killed Oswald.
In other words, Charles de Gaulle may have had an opinion, but nothing more. No "new evidence" whatsoever.
As to the attempts on de Gaulle, I am aware of them, but, again, the OAS had nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination. It's that simple.
The best book on the subject was written by a French journalist :

• Vincent Quivy, Qui n'a pas tué John Kennedy, Seuil, 2013

He puts to rest all theories about the French theory or the Corsican theory. They lead nowhere.

[Joe Bauer]

Looking again at the bottom left photo of the DCM above; how can anyone see this photo and not see some clear anomalies regards the upper back clothing of DCM as he is walking along the grassy knoll area.

DCM's jacket back side is pulled up on mostly his middle to upper right side and protrudes outwardly very noticeably with shadows that clearly depict very sharp and straight angular outline lines.

Any normal bunching up would be depicted with uneven lines imo.

And here again, we have a mysterious line coming up vertically from something farther down to the waist area. About 15 inches long?

This time the line is dark versus white in the upper left photo that some believe is a walkie-talkie antenna. The darker color is obviously because whatever that line is, it is now in the shadows.  But, there are no other black lines like this in that photo. Hard to dismiss this as film or light play anomalies.

There is also a thicker same dark color line at the base of the vertical line that runs horizontally and seems connected to the vertical line and that doesn't look like the base of the jacket.  In fact,  a decent sized patch of the lighter colored jacket is shown and visible below this higher up, horizontal dark line.

When one combines the unusual behind the back arm and hand actions of the DCM with these really obvious and symmetrical protrusion and line anomalies in the photo...

You are almost forced by visual logical to conclude there is something else going with the upper and lower right back backsides of the DCM than just a simple fold showing short cut jacket.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Cory Santos]

13 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Yes.

 

Yes. But, so what? A lot of people were looking (and running) toward the Knoll at that time. DCM was merely watching the various people run up the slope. You actually think that because DCM  merely LOOKED toward the Grassy Knoll, that fact signifies something "conspiratorial" on his part? If so, you're really desperate to grasp any straw you can find, aren't you?

 

Not necessarily. The thing you think he's got up to his mouth might just be part of the person standing to his right-rear. I can't tell. The picture's not clear enough. (See the photo montage below.) But I doubt that he's holding anything at all. He certainly has nothing in his right hand in the clearer picture just to the right of the fuzzier one. And those photos seem to have been taken at almost an identical point in time. Take note of the position of DCM's left hand and arm in both images. The position of that arm looks exactly the same to me.

 

Very hard to tell. The thing you think is an antenna could easily be something else or a photo anomaly. I can see the same type of "straight white line" formed on the back of the uniform of the motorcycle cop in the very same image. What do you think caused that white line? It's certainly not an antenna on the policeman's back.

But let me ask you this:

Are you really suggesting that Mr. Dark Complected Man was part of some assassination plot, and he just casually and calmly decided to get on his walkie-talkie and radio in a message of some kind to his co-plotters within seconds of the shooting --- right out in the open where he knew he was being photographed and filmed?

Talk about some large-sized gonads! Mr. DCM sure had those, didn't he?

Bottom Line:

All the suspicions about "DCM" and "Umbrella Man" and "Black Dog Man" and (a newer one) "Tan Jacket Man" are nothing more than that --- unsupportable "suspicions" by conspiracy believers who are looking for conspirators behind every bush and retaining wall and oak tree in Dealey Plaza---and even right out in the open on Elm Street with open umbrellas and walkie-talkies while being filmed performing their conspiratorial work. It's just plain (dare I say it again?)----silly.

Thank you David.

So you admit he is looking at the Grassy knoll.

As for what is near his face you admit

"I can't tell. The picture's not clear enough."  

You also claim the two photos are taken in almost identical time ( I assume you meant within seconds of each other?) based on DCM's left hand.  but look again.  Umbrella man clearly is looking that way and has his hands in a different position in each picture.  So that argument fails to hold water. 

Do you admit or concede that?

Next, You state as for the antenna "Very hard to tell. The thing you think is an antenna could easily be something else or a photo anomaly. I can see the same type of "straight white line" formed on the back of the uniform of the motorcycle cop in the very same image."

So you admitted you see this line. 

Ok, then when you say it is "Very hard to tell", then you actually cannot state it is or is not an antenna or a radio correct?

Because truly, once you provide your opinion, that it is "Very hard to tell", it means legally you cannot rule it out.  

As such, what we have from your montage- I did not even get to point that he is tucking something in his back pants when walking away- is this:

1)  DVP admits that the pictures are "not clear enough"  to determine if he has something up to his mouth. 

2)  Moreover his opinion as to the antenna is the pictures are "Very hard to tell".  He speculates it could be something else.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this expert testified.  You have his opinions.  His opinions are that the pictures-which he notes do show a person looking at the grassy knoll,  that same person with a line near his face-although he cannot state what that line is for the jury.  As such, does this expert conclusively provide a scientific opinion that there was no radio?  Remember, he admits Lee Bowers testified that he thought he saw three cars driving around, a person with something up to his mouth like a radio.  So we know from at least one witness, whose credibility has not been impeached, that a radio was in use that day in a strange way-really, who drives around in 1963 talking on a radio in broad daylight before a presidential motorcade, I mean it is so obvious and open to the public, certainly no one would be that careless would they?  Well, DVP then suggests this with DCM, why would he utilize this radio in the area?  We have established that it happened behind the knoll prior to the assassination, is it a stretch to have it happen in the plaza?  I ask you, if you have 2 people that day utilizing radios before and after the assassination, and the W.C. has not identified either individual and brought them in for questioning, I ask you, is there a reasonable doubt that there was some coordination?  If LHO acted alone- assuming he did the shooting all from the 6th floor- if there were at least 2 people utilizing radios who were not government officials, then does this not bring up a reasonable doubt that LHO may have acted with someone?  Certainly, this expert cannot state to a scientific probability that DCM did not have a radio-he cannot tell, he cannot state to a scientific probability that DCM did not have an antenna -he cannot tell.  As such, he CANNOT rule this out.  But the fact that there is a question, alone, causes a reasonable doubt to be made-remember, any doubt, no matter how small, is enough in a criminal courtroom.  So, since this is a murder case, I ask, do you have a reasonable doubt that LHO acted alone?

 

This my friend is one of the many reasons that although I would rather believe LHO acted alone, I cannot.  When you review the experts in this case, the speculative opinions, you find the evidence is not as clear as you think it is.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Cory Santos

[François Carlier]

14 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Very hard to tell. The thing you think is an antenna could easily be something else or a photo anomaly.

I think it was one of the curtain rods that Oswald needed that day !  😁

[James DiEugenio]

I have seen that photo from another angle.

I am no photographic expert, but it sure looks like an antennae to me.

[James DiEugenio]

Well, DVP has also not replied t omg query about the Chicago Plot.

 

But from the evidence I have seen, they did not know about that either.

So, let us now go to this:  As referenced in John Newman's book Oswald and the CIA, Did the WC know that the FBI was white outing the address 544 Camp Street from certain papers they had about Oswald and also from his literature collection. 

(This issue goes to the reply by FC that it made no difference if DeGaulle did not think LHO was a commie.)

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 12/11/2018 at 10:31 PM, David Von Pein said:

On 12/11/2018 at 10:11 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Do you believe it was Oswald himself who spoke over the phone with the consulates in Spanish and broken Russian?

Either that, or somebody mixed up the calls (and the callers). Because there was certainly NOT an "imposter Oswald" roaming the streets of Mexico City in September and October of 1963. And the main reason we can be certain of that fact is because-----

The one and only "real" Lee Harvey Oswald positvely DID travel by bus to Mexico City in late September '63. That fact has been proven in many different ways, not the least of which is available in Oswald's own words in Commission Exhibit No. 15.

Do you really think this is a fake letter, Sandy (complete with a fake LHO signature)?....

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0029a.htm

 

Yes, Dave, that is a fake letter. It was sent by the CIA to the Russian Embassy as part of it's plan to blame JFK's assassination on Russia and Cuba.

There are two possible reasons why the CIA wanted the blame to go to Russia and Cuba. 1) The assassination was a false flag operation that would give the United States an excuse to invade Cuba; or 2) it was a scheme to get President Johnson to do a coverup. Which he did, because he wanted to avoid a potential WW3.

I'm still trying to figure out for myself which of those two possibilities was the case.

BTW, it's easy to forge a letter like that and to fake a signature.

Another BTW... if we were living in the sixties and debating whether or not the CIA was overthrowing governments and killing foreign leaders, you'd be denying it all while we CTers would be exploring the evidence. You'd be denying that the CIA was secretly testing LSD on unwitting civilians. You'd be denying that the government was knowingly exposing Americans citizens to dangerous radioactive fallout. And on and on.

You'd be wrong on all counts, just like you're wrong about the Kennedy assassination.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Sandy Larsen