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Earlene Roberts WC Testimony Amazing To Me Yet Disturbingly Ignored.


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On 12/17/2018 at 12:41 PM, James DiEugenio said:

If someone called a taxi, knowing what Hoover was doing on this case e.g. the Odio incident cover up,  would not the FBI have found them?

Would they not have asked everyone at Beckley, would they not have gone to the cab companies?

Roberts said she saw two cops in the car.  Do cab drivers dress like cops in the city of Dallas?

The idea that somehow the DPD would admit there was a car there, or the cops would come forward, is too ludicrous to contemplate.

 

 

On 12/17/2018 at 2:38 PM, Steve Thomas said:

image.png.a36d4d3aae03ecc6e747e8abdb7e398b.png

No whip antenna on the cab either

Steve Thomas 

I'm not suggesting the two cars are identical, but I was indeed struck and surprised by the extent of the superficial similarity.  It's not as though the taxi is a screaming yellow monster that no one could mistake.  The fact that the taxi was black and had a prominent number on the fender was significant to me.  Moreover, I haven't been able to determine what other taxi companies may have been operating in Dallas in 1963.

For the reasons outlined in my very first post here, I question whether Earlene saw any car at all.  But giving her the benefit of the doubt, I see the taxi explanation as at least being plausible.  In my experience, taxis do toot gently when they pull up to the curb, and someone may have been waiting outside one of the two buildings and immediately entered the cab.  Driver in a hat + passenger = "two officers."  I'm not promoting this explanation, merely suggesting it.

Strictly FWIW, here is an old Checker taxi driver's hat:

 

Jim's post is an example of "conspiracy hindsight" thinking:  Why didn't the FBI and DPD nail down every last issue, as we conspiracy theorists would have done?

Earlene said car #207.  The DPD eliminated car #207.  Earlene shifted to #106 or 107.  At the WC's request to the FBI and the FBI's request to the DPD, the DPD eliminated ALL cars, patrol and traffic, in service at the time.  COULD they have interviewed every tenant of both buildings and demanded the records of every taxi company in Dallas?  Sure.  But does that seem reasonable?  Only with "conspiracy hindsight," I believe.

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On 12/17/2018 at 4:39 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Steve, 

That is what Lancie Boy is saying could be mistaken for a DPD car?

By an effectively one-eyed woman looking through gauzy curtains while having as her primary focus a TV report of a Presidential assassination?  Absolutely.

Here is the front of 1026 North Beckley in 1963.  Readers can judge for themselves how clear the view of a car at the curb might have been from Earlene's position in the front room.  The gauzy curtains are clearly visible in her interviews on YouTube.

 

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11 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Earth to Roy, earth to Roy:  Come back to us, big fella.  See the photos behind the taxi, Roy?  They are Whaley and Oswald.  Ya know why?  Because:

THAT IS THE VERY TAXI IN WHICH OSWALD RODE.

It sold at auction in 2010 for $35,750:  https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/oswalds-getaway-cab-sold-for-35750/

 

 

 

OUCH.  Mea Culpa about that (very minor) part of my view of this Earlene Roberts' imbroglio. I am so sorry, Lance.  I looked at that photo of the Checker cab for a millisecond then Joe's last (?) post, and then went OFF.  Haste makes waste, right?  I didn't see those ten-times larger-than-life photos of Whaley and Ozzie, those two good men on the Day the Music Died.  Thanks for the correction.  So those Checker cab-boats DID visit the low-rent Oak Cliff.

BUT that is even more evidence for Joe's position that Earlene was  a good witness.  Because no one, either ER or Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder, could mistake the Cadillac behemoth  for a dowdy DPD pygmy.  There's a lot more, but I gotta go to a Xmas party that features the best Silly Santa whatchamacallit in Greensboro.

Really, Lance thank you so much for that picture and info about the Checker Ozzie took home.  The Wiz was living large his last day of freedom.  I'm bookmarking it.  But OUCH...

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7 minutes ago, Roy Wieselquist said:

OUCH.  Mea Culpa about that (very minor) part of my view of this Earlene Roberts' imbroglio. I am so sorry, Lance.  I looked at that photo of the Checker cab for a millisecond, and then went OFF.  Haste makes waste, right?  I didn't see those ten-times larger-than-life photos of Whaley and Ozzie, those two good men on the Day the Music Died.  Thanks for the correction.  So those Checker cab-boats DID visit the low-rent Oak Cliff.

BUT that is even more evidence for Joe's position that Earlene was  a good witness.  Because no one, either ER or Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder, could mistake the Cadillac behemoth  for a dowdy DPD pygmy.  There's a lot more, but I gotta go to a Xmas party that features the best Silly Santa whatchamacallit in Greensboro.

Really, Lance thank you so much for that picture and info about the Checker Ozzie took home.  The Wiz was living large his last day of freedom.  I'm bookmarking it.  But OUCH...

Hey, Roy - Thanks for owning up to the mistake!  You're a rare bird.  I've made some howlers myself.  I doubt Ozzie's Last Ride would have looked quite that spiffy on the day in question.

Come on - you know the Day the Music Died was when Buddy Holly, Richie Valens and J. P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson went down.  😀  I've been semi-following your White Album thread.  I remember well when that came out - I was in college and the Beatles and Stones were almost gods to me.  My brother in law was a Top 40 DJ at the time and my brother was the editor of San Francisco Magazine.  At one point, I was a genuine Rock Historian - I had about 3,000 meticulously catalogued 45s from the era 1955-1969 and could cite Everything You Wanted to Know about all of them.  I stayed with it all through the Punk era (where The Clash were my gods and Debbie Harry was my fantasy goddess), then it lost me.  The whole "Paul Is Dead" thing was fascinating.  When I heard "Here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul" and played Revolution No. 9 backwards by hand on a turntable ("Turn me on, dead man," which was pretty clear), it was hard to dismiss.  No one who didn't live through those times can imagine what it was like.

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I have one final thought on this.  I love to distinguish "life in the real world" from "life in the conspiracy world."

I've lived in the same house in the same small town for 22 years.  The police administration complex is literally 20 feet behind my back wall.  At any given time, there are 10-20 police cars parked in a large lot in full view.  One of the primary routes for the police is the otherwise quiet street directly in front of my house.  My wife and I spend around 15 hours a week just walking around town for exercise, waving politely at the police cars when they pass us.

If you asked me, "What is the make and model of the police cars?  What is the color scheme?  Is the roof a different color from the body?  Do they have numbers?  If so, where?  Do the police wear hats?" - well, you'd get pretty much of a blank stare.  "Well, I know they're not yellow.  I don't know, they're just regular police cars."  Really, that's about what you'd get.

But in the conspiracy world, a maid in a boarding house has accurate images of Dallas police cars and Dallas taxis fixed in her mind like the faces of her grandbabies.  Even with her faulty vision and preoccupation with a Presidential assassination on TV, she could never mistake a black taxi (that at least to me looks astonishingly like a police car) for a black police car on a quick glance through gauzy curtains and such other obstructions as may have been in the way.

No, that is IMPOSSIBLE, a JOKE.  She SAW A POLICE CAR.  What, are you calling this saintly woman a L-I-A-R, pal?  The explanation CAN ONLY BE SINISTER.

That's conspiracy logic and life in the conspiracy world.  It's why, time and again, when I examine the "facts" of the conspiracy gospel, I come away unconvinced.  Show me ONE PIECE of unquestionably bona fide evidence that clearly and unequivocally points away from the Lone Assassin explanation.  No, not 350 versions of the Earlene Roberts story, all connected by dark and sinister speculation, with the mountain of controverting evidence dismissed by claims of "Fake! Forgery! Alteration! Lying!"

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Lance, you're grasping at straws with the "through a gauzy curtain" stuff.  Mrs. Roberts was a professional observer; her job demanded it.  The curtains then had breaks in them, easy to part and look out.  She probably kept those front windows clean as air.  Do you think she's going to walk to the window and look through a curtain and not the window?!  Never happened, never has happened, never will happen.

Earlene Roberts suffered quite a bit for sticking to her guns about what she saw.  The path of least resistance is the opposite of what she did.

Aquilla Clemons (sp?) suffered way more than ER.  She saw TWO men at Tippit's murder, neither looking like Ozzie the Wiz.  Police and FBI tried to talk her out of her story.  A man with a gun gave her a visit soon after, told her to shut up, or she "might get hurt."  AC disappeared not long after that.  It is not known, to this day, where she went and what happened to her.  Aquilla's ancestors were from Africa, so maybe we shouldn't care about her much.  There are a few good threads about AC on Ed Forum. 

A nation that must harass, intimidate, terrorize, maim and murder its good citizens lest its worst citizens be "embarrassed."  Which was LBJ's constant fear, though "embarrassed" to LBJ merely meant exposure of his crimes.  That's a Civil War and a Dark Age.  There were five civil wars after the aristocrat Senators assassinated the Gracchi brothers and Julius Caesar, thus aborting the golden age that had just begun.  It was not until 110 years later in 70 C. E. that Classical Rome experienced another golden age.  So the U. S. of A. won't be due for good times again until the year 2078 or later.  Is that what you want, Lance?

Joe, don't leave us with these purveyors of gauzy smokescreens.

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3 hours ago, Roy Wieselquist said:

Lance, you're grasping at straws with the "through a gauzy curtain" stuff.  Mrs. Roberts was a professional observer; her job demanded it.  The curtains then had breaks in them, easy to part and look out.  She probably kept those front windows clean as air.  Do you think she's going to walk to the window and look through a curtain and not the window?!  Never happened, never has happened, never will happen.

As it turns out, I am grasping at straws, but not intentionally or for the reasons you suggest.  I had overlooked that Earlene testified she "went to the door."  (The door had three small windows in it.)  When she walked officers and reporters through what she had been doing at the time, however, she never mentioned either going to the door or seeing a police car.  Oh, well, I will withdraw the "gauzy curtains" statement, stand by all the rest of what I have stated here, and let old Earlene rest in peace.  You can judge for yourself how carefully she observed the car.

Mrs. ROBERTS. He came in the house.
Mr. BALL. When he came in the house ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. When he came in the house and went to his room, you know how the sidewalk runs?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Right direct in front of that door-there was a police car stopped and honked. I had worked for some policemen and sometimes they come by and tell me something that maybe their wives would want me to know, and I thought it was them, and I just glanced out and saw the number, and I said, "Oh, that's not their car," for I knew their car.
Mr. BALL. You mean, it was not the car of the policemen you knew?
Mrs. ROBERTS. It wasn't the police car I knew, because their number was 170 and it wasn't 170 and I ignored it.
Mr. BALL. And who was in the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't know--I didn't pay any attention to it after I noticed it wasn't them-I didn't.

***

Mr. BALL. Did this police car stop directly in front of your house?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes--it stopped directly in front of my house and it just "tip-tip" and that's the way Officer Alexander and Charles Burnely would do when they stopped, and I went to the door and looked and saw it wasn't their number.
Mr. BALL. Where was Oswald when this happened?
Mrs. ROBERTS. In his room.

 

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When you start to put together a timeline or logic diagram of some sort for the movements of key individuals after the assassination this incident always sticks out, it never seems to fit and at the same time seems superfluous in the wider scheme. Much like a few other issues on that day. From my relatively little experience it seems like these incidents, the ones that don't fit with anything need to go into one of two categories .

 1) Misunderstanding / mistakenly identified / lied

2) Very important and we need to nail down what happened. 

The incident doesn't seem to make sense, They wait until he's inside, which would have had to be a feat of timing in itself and then toot the horn, then leave. That doesn't make any sense.

So... maybe ... he then got in the car round the corner where no one could see him in a pre arranged meeting place or just near by and he knew that the toot meant to meet near by.

maybe .... they saw him and followed him, waited for him to go in then rolled up and signalled, but that just seems strange behaviour...unless the idea was to not be seen talking to him , and you were part of a small cabal of dodgy DPD cops. ( this seems most logical)

 maybe .....she was making a story up as Johnson suggested

I'm not sure.

 Does anyone know how long the car waited and how long he was in the rooming house ? I've never seen a quantitative value. 

 

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If you want to understand what was happening that day the source is Professor Joseph McBride’s book “Into the Nightmare”.  It’s based on evidence and facts. It’s written by someone in academia.   It deserves tremendous note because when academia (along w newspaper writers, medical doctors and scientists -I leave lawyers out) started writing on JFK as opposed to researchers -not a put down- this issue gained far more credibility. I wish I had it when I was in law school writing about the subject. There was very little academic literature out there. Books like this force Warren Ommission defenders to have to use more than put downs to argue their stance. I am sure fc carefully read this book in his 1,000,000 book collection and find nothing of importance lol. 

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On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 1:04 PM, Joe Bauer said:

This is my last posting here on the forum.

Lance, I couldn't help contemplating your proposed possible alternate Dallas Taxi cab versus DPD police car scenario regards Earline Robert's story of a police car pulling up in front of her rooming house and honking twice and then slowly pulling away around 1:PM on 11,22,1963 ... all while Lee Harvey Oswald was just 40 feet away.

After seeing the photo of a Dallas cab in 1963, I had to admit there are some real similarities that from a distance or quick glance versus a longer look, could lead to someone mixing up the two vehicles.

After giving this misidentification theory some serious thought however, I believe it is not valid.

When Mrs. Robert's story of the police car pulIing up and honking while Oswald was in his room was shared with the authorities, it's implications would have been immediately clear and of the utmost concern.  Our own cops did that?

I have to believe that someone in the DPD or local FBI took this claim seriously enough to investigate it more than just a loony made up story.  And this taxi versus police car scenario would probably have been thought of by them as it was with you.

Yet all the DPD and FBI had to do to verify such a misidentification mix up would be to call the Dallas Taxi companies and ask to see their call records. And they could also have interviewed every cab driver on duty that day to see which one got a call to Earlene Robert's rooming house.

Also, they could have interviewed every resident of the rooming house to see which one called for a cab at that time.

Both agencies would have LOVED to have discovered that a Dallas cab was indeed the car that Earlene Robert's claims she saw pull up to her residence that day and at that time versus a DPD car.

Take care...I'll be checking in to "read" the forum postings...just not posting myself.

 

 

 

Joe, I hope your not leaving for health reasons, or I or others have offended you.  I've found your comments interesting and thoughtful.   I imagine most others here would agree your always welcome back.

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On 12/19/2018 at 8:55 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Joe, I hope your not leaving for health reasons, or I or others have offended you.  I've found your comments interesting and thoughtful.   I imagine most others here would agree your always welcome back.

Ron, thank you for the kind words.

Oh Gosh no regards leaving because someone here offended me.

I wouldn't be offended that easily.

Same with health problems although I do have several including heart irregularities like Afib.

Can't tell you how many electric shock cardioversion procedures I have had in the last 10 years. Also two ablasion surgeries that didn't work. Fractured my L 4 vertebrae last January. Etc, etc. Way over weight now...230 lbs on a 6 ft frame. Compared to 175 lbs in my member photo of 32 years ago. Totally white hair now.

I decided to stop posting for awhile and perhaps coming in only when I feel my posting content is worthy in more ways than just my less-than-well-informed guesses or speculations.

Ron, I have actually read so little compared to 85% to 90% of the forum members here and who do post.

I have picked up tons of general information only through light reading and general reading, as I will explain, since the 1970's.

I have read Mark Lane, Garrison's "On The Trail Of The Assassins", David Talbot's "Brothers", and parts of many other books including Norman Mailer and Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History." But my adult ADD makes it hard to stay with and finish many of the other books I should have read by now.

I have read many, many excerpts and articles and lots of the WC testimonies over the years. I have checked out many interviews and even JFK conference speaking engagements on YOU TUBE.

I listen to every JFK related interview on whatever radio station I can find.

I listened to Mae Brussell for years when she broadcast here in Carmel, CA.

And I have really read a lot that has been posted here for many years. Easy to read 10 to 50 line postings versus entire books.

I have what I would call a decent "general" background grasp ( broad but not deep at all ) regards the most well known aspects of the JFK assassination, including most of the characters involved.

I know enough that when I read anything here I can "usually" understand the general gist of the context.

But much of the time I am lost regarding debates and arguments involving deep research material.

My postings usually do contain fairly valid background facts in a general context, but as I am sure you and others here have noticed, I most often resort to framing my posting messages from a personal, emotional gut feeling perspective and just hoping that they nonetheless come across with enough common sense and logic to not sound too ridiculous.  

There you have it. My reason for stepping back. 

Since I am here though, even after I said I was leaving, let me say this about Earline Robert's and her story of the pulling up police car and it honking twice while the world's most wanted fugitive was just 40 feet away.

Mrs. Roberts the reported embellisher, didn't embellish the most dramatic aspect of her day on 11,22,1963 which was her personal and up close encounter with a bustling in and out Lee Harvey Oswald.

And to try to frame her additional story of the stopping and honking police car while Oswald was in his room story as another embellished attention seeking made up hoax is simply preposterous.

Honestly, how would making up a story like this ( with uniquely odd details ) benefit Mrs. Roberts in any way?

Make her more of a "somebody" versus an old domestic worker nobody? 

Please.

In reality, the story only caused her to be stressed even more than she already was from the onslaught of a press and police crush and even personally ridiculed and impugned.

She knew because of the pointed questioning she was subjected to regards this additional Oswald encounter story that it was probably something she regretted ever sharing at all.

Yet, she stuck to her credibility guns in sharing the same story again to the Warren Commission 5 months later.  Again without this benefiting her in any real way.

It would have been so easy for her to have given the story up with a simple excuse that she was so discombobulated in all the frantic chaos she wasn't sure about any of it. 

I'm still here. Checking in through out the day.

Keep the JFK truth and justice seeking flame burning my courageously committed friends.

JB

 

Edited by Joe Bauer
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