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Did Jack Ruby Know Lee Harvey Oswald?

Douglas Caddy

By Douglas Caddy
in JFK Assassination Debate

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  • 2 weeks later...
Tom Wilson Newbie

Tom Wilson

Posted
Posted

In the eighties I was in Dallas and met a Dallas police officer who showed me around Parkland. (I was a police officer myself then. He served in the same precinct as Tippit. He told me Ruby stopped by quite often to play dominoes with the guys. He said Tippit knew Ruby very well. Didn't say anything about LHO, but I thought I would add this here

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Jim Hargrove Rising Star

Jim Hargrove

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3 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Pictures are deceptive.  All this proves is that LHO liked to watch strippers.  But from other sources, I do know that LHO and Ruby knew each other.

But since the passport picture (inset) clearly was part of LHO's 1963 passport application, and since it appears to be the same fellow watching the scantily-clad young woman, the logical assumption is that this picture was taken in 1963.  Dallas or New Orleans... take your pick.  I'm guessing the Carousel Club in 1963 is the likely venue , unless you can suggest a more likely alternative.

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Jim Hargrove Rising Star

Jim Hargrove

Posted
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38 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

You have to provide MORE than a picture to make the claim LHO knew Ruby.

  • In the summer of 1963 Dorothy Marcum was dating Ruby and her aunt worked for Ruby. Dorothy told the FBI that LEE Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July and the two men definitely knew each other.
  • Ruby was interviewing Francis Irene Hise for a job as a waitress when a young man entered the Carousel Club and Ruby said “Hi, Ozzie” to the young man. After she was hired Miss Hise served drinks to “Ozzie," whom she recognized after the assassination as LHO.
  • Another employee, Clyde Malcolm Limbough, worked for Ruby three years and saw Oswald in Ruby's office on several occasions.
  • Helen Kay Smith (“Pixie Lynn”), who worked at the Carousel, told the Dallas Police that she saw Ruby and Oswald together on several occasions.
  • Other employees of Ruby who saw Oswald in the Carousel Club were William Crowe, Wally Weston, Dixie Lynn, and Kathy Kay.
  • Robert Roy was Ruby's auto mechanic and said that Oswald used to drop off Ruby's car for repairs. Roy then drove Oswald back to Ruby's “burlesque house.”
  • Ruby parked his car at Gibbs Auto Service and occasionally allowed friends and associates to borrow his car. Leon Woods was the manager of Gibbs and kept a “check-in and check-out” book that listed the names of people who took Ruby's car from the garage. Mr. Woods gave the book to the FBI following the assassination of President Kennedy, which the FBI later denied.
  • During the last week of July (1963) Western Union employee Marshall Hicks delivered several telegrams addressed to “LEE Harvey Oswald” at the Rotary Apartments, 1501-1503 W. 7th St. in Dallas (while HARVEY and Marina were living in New Orleans). The FBI made no attempt to locate copies of these telegrams.
  • DPD Detective H.M. Hart, of the Criminal Intelligence Division, received information from a Dallas Police confidential informant who knew Ruby. The informant said that in September (1963) Ruby rented an apartment at 223 S. Ewing for LEE Oswald.

NOTE: Journalist Dorothy Kilgallen wrote in the New York Journal American (June 6, 1964): “It is known that 10 persons have signed sworn depositions to the Warren Commission that they knew Oswald and Ruby to have been acquainted.” 


At 20, "Little Lynn" (in private life, Karen Carlin) was Jack's youngest stripper. With long locks of artificially colored gray hair, Lynn had the body of swimsuit contestant—but, on stage, wore little other than a big smile, pink heels and a matching G-string.  On November 24, 1963, Little Lynn told U.S. Secret Service agent Roger Warner that she, in his words, "was under the impression that Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, and other individuals unknown to her, were involved in a plot to assassinate President Kennedy and that she would be killed if she gave any information to authorities." Lynn reportedly died of a gunshot wound in Houston in 1964.

During the first week of September, Louisiana gubernatorial candidate Clyde Johnson was residing temporarily at the Roosevelt Hotel in New Orleans. A man telephoned Johnson, introduced himself as Alton Bernard, and asked to meet with him. Johnson agreed and soon Bernard, accompanied by a young man named “Leon,” arrived at Johnson's hotel room. About 10 minutes later a third man arrived and was introduced as “Jack." Johnson watched as Mr. Bernard opened his briefcase and handed thick, brown envelopes to Jack, Leon and to himself. The envelope given to Johnson contained $5000 in cash, for his gubernatorial campaign. After the assassination of President Kennedy, Johnson identified “Leon” as Lee Harvey Oswald and “Jack” as Jack Ruby. Years later Johnson identified a photograph of Clay Shaw as the man who introduced himself as “Alton Bernard” at the Roosevelt Hotel. Gubernatorial candidate Clyde Johnson was a very credible witness who met Clay Shaw, Jack Ruby and LEE Harvey Oswald in the summer of 1963. Johnson was scheduled to testify at Clay Shaw's trial in New Orleans, but was badly beaten and unable to appear.  A short while later he was murdered by a shotgun blast.

In early September Antonio Veciana observed his long-time CIA contact “Maurice Bishop” talking with LEE Oswald at the Southland Building in Dallas, a few blocks from the Carousel Club. “Maurice Bishop” was later identified by HSCA investigator Gaeton Fonzi as David Atlee Phillips--a high level CIA agent (Mexico City Station) who became the CIA's “Chief of Western Hemisphere." Phillips, a native of Ft. Worth, was very close to Gordon McLendon, the owner of Dallas radio station KLIF. McLendon had been a Naval intelligence officer at Pearl Harbor in WWII and later founded the “Association of Former Intelligence (CIA) Officers” (click here to visit AFIO website). McLendon, who had known Phillips since junior high school in Ft. Worth, was also one of Jack Ruby's closest friends. 
 

NOTE: the HSCA requested files from the CIA on McLendon. The requests were handled by Donald Gregg, assistant to former CIA Director George Bush. 


Why would a high-level CIA agent like Phillips, assigned to the Mexico City Station, head of Cuban Propaganda, and soon to be the Chief of Western Hemisphere, meet with 23 year old LEE Oswald in Dallas? And why did the name “Bishop” appear in Ruby's notebook with phone number RI 87991? Intelligence sources told news reporter Vic Walter that Veciana was probably the closest living link to the Kennedy assassination (linking the CIA's David Atlee Phillips with Lee Harvey Oswald). 
 

NOTE: while Jack Ruby and LEE Oswald were seen together in and around Dallas in the summer and fall of 1963, HARVEY, Marina, and June Oswald were living in New Orleans. 


On Labor Day weekend HARVEY Oswald, a very pregnant Marina, and 2-year old June, boarded a city bus and rode to the Murrets in New Orleans. Three hundred and fifty miles away, in Kemah, TX, Robert McKeown watched as a car arrived, parked, and two men got out and walked toward his home. One of the men introduced himself to McKeown as LEE Oswald, and said that he wanted to purchase rifles. McKeown, who was still on a 5-year probation for selling arms, refused to sell guns to LEE Oswald. The two men left but returned a few minutes later and again asked McKeown to sell rifles, but he refused. LEE Oswald's attempt to purchase rifles from Robert McKeown, who was a very close personal friend of Fidel Castro, was very significant and an obvious attempt by the conspirators to link Lee HARVEY Oswald to Cuba. 

This “staged encounter,” in which LEE Oswald impersonated HARVEY Oswald, was the first in a series of attempts to frame/set-up HARVEY as the future assassin of President Kennedy. Had McKeown sold one or more rifles to LEE Oswald then one of those rifles could have been “planted” on the 6th floor of the TSBD, found by police, and linked through McKeown to Castro. If the rifle could be linked to Castro, the American public would have been outraged and would have demanded a retaliatory response by US armed forces. The meeting with McKeown took place within a few days of LEE Oswald's meeting with the CIA's David Atlee Phillips in Dallas. It is worth remembering that Phillips' close friend, Gordon McLendon, was a close friend of Jack Ruby. 

In June, July, and August 1963, while HARVEY, Marina, and June were living in New Orleans, Jack Ruby spent a lot of time with LEE Oswald in Dallas. During the next 2-1/2 months a young man, identified by witnesses as “Lee Harvey Oswald," appeared in various locations in order to create the impression that he was a communist, a supporter of Castro, a good marksman who owned an Italian carbine rifle, carried that rifle in a 4-1/2 ft long package wrapped in brown paper that he said contained “curtain rods”, knew about President Kennedy's trip to Dallas, and would soon receive a large amount of money. Someone was setting up/framing HARVEY Oswald as the assassin of President Kennedy—the former Russian speaking “defector” to the Soviet Union, with a Russian wife, who recently handed out FPCC literature in New Orleans in support of Castro. The most likely person to devise and create such a ruse was the CIA's head of Cuban propaganda--David Atlee Phillips (Mexico City). Someone was needed to impersonate HARVEY Oswald in Dallas, and who better than LEE Oswald. And someone close to LEE Oswald was needed to pass along Phillips' instructions and direct him as to where to go and what to do—and that man was likely Jack Ruby.  During the next two months that preceded the assassination, LEE Oswald followed instructions and “staged” one event after another in order to implicate, frame, set-up, and identify HARVEY Oswald as the future assassin of President Kennedy.

Some of those “staged events” included:
 

  • Sept 26 to Oct 3--Mexico City, “Lee Harvey Oswald” was supposed to have taken bus to Mexico City and visited the Cuban Consulate and Embassy. However, available evidence and the complete lack of documentation shows that the entire Mexico City “episode” was the CIA's attempt to link Oswald with Cuba. Four Dallas deputy constables (fully empowered peace county-wide jurisdiction) inspected a box containing documents that linked Ruby and Oswald. Deputies Billy J. Preston, Ben Cash, and John Callaghan reported they had seen a motel near New Orleans with Ruby and Oswald's names dated several weeks before the assassination of President Kennedy. They said the receipts showed several phone calls had been placed to Mexico, to numbers identified as the Cuban and Russian embassies. The supervisor (Robie Love), personally turned the box over to Dallas DA Henry Wade, and the box disappeared.
  • Oct 4 (Fri), LEE Oswald arrived at the Carousel Club about 10:00 pm and  began talking with Jack Ruby. Dallas attorney Carroll Jarnagin was sitting nearby and heard Oswald say, “I just got in from New Orleans.” Ruby replied, “I noticed you hadn't been around in two or three weeks.” After listening to their conversation Jarnagin realized they were talking about assassinating Texas Governor John Connally. Following the assassination Jarnagin recognized the younger man as “Lee Harvey Oswald” and on 12/3/63 prepared a lengthy statement detailing the conversation he overheard between Ruby and Oswald and gave it to the FBI.
  • Oct 14 (Mon), Texas Employment Commission. Counselor Laura Kittrell interviewed HARVEY Oswald, who said he had just arrived from New Orleans and was looking for work. Laura recalled that Oswald had a “sketchy” background in off-set printing (Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall), and arranged for him to take GATB tests. The following Monday at 1:00 PM HARVEY took the tests, and this was his last meeting with Laura Kittrell.
  • Oct 16 (Wed), HARVEY Oswald began working full time at the TSBD.
  • Oct 17 (Thur), TEC. A man closely resembling HARVEY Oswald showed up at Laura Kittrell's office. Laura said, “I looked up from my desk and there he was, standing beside it, and grinning.” The young man was wearing a red and white checkered sport shirt and said, “The Claims Office sent me back to you. You got to change my Primary Code. You got to change it back to what it was in the beginning. I have just joined the Teamsters Union. Joined last night." At first Laura thought the man was (HARVEY) Oswald. But after talking with him she realized that this was not the man who took the GATB tests the previous Monday. This man was more interested in collecting unemployment compensation than finding a job. She wondered if (HARVEY) Oswald had sent this man in his place to try and collect unemployment. She later recalled, “Although the man I remember as (HARVEY) Oswald and the man I remember as the Teamster (LEE Oswald) were much alike in size, shape, and outline, there was a marked difference between them in bearing and manner.” As Laura Kittrell was interviewing (LEE) Oswald, HARVEY Oswald was working full-time at the TSBD.
  • Oct 26 (Sat), the Sports Drome Rifle Range, where LEE Oswald sighted in his rifle and showed off his shooting ability (HARVEY was at Ruth Paine's house with wife and daughters).
  • Nov 1 (Fri), three weeks before the assassination Wally Weston, master of ceremonies at the Carousel and a good friend of Ruby's, was on stage. A young man walked up to the stage and said, “I think you're a communist.” Weston jumped off the stage and hit the man, while Ruby grabbed the man and said, “I told you to never to come in here,” and then threw him out of the club. After the assassination Weston recognized the man as LEE Harvey Oswald. (HARVEY was at Ruth Paine's house with wife and daughters).
  • Nov 2 (Sat), Downtown Lincoln Mercury, where a man who identified himself as LHO test drove a Mercury Comet. He told salesman Al Bogard that he would return in a couple of weeks with $3500 in cash to purchase the car. (HARVEY was at Ruth Paine's house with wife and daughters).
  • Nov 2 (Sat), Morgan's Gun Shop. A young man, who claimed to be a former Marine, arrived at the shop and wanted to purchase ammunition. He created a bad impression and soon left. The clerk and three customers later identified the man as LHO (HARVEY was at Ruth Paine's house with wife and daughters).
  • Nov 6 (Wed) or Nov 7 (Thur), Furniture Mart in Irving, TX., where a young man arrived in a 1957 blue and white Ford with wife. He was carrying an object wrapped in paper that was about 15 inches long and looked like it was  part of a gun. The man asked Mrs. Whitworth for a gun part and was told the store no longer had a gun department. Following the assassination Mrs. Whitworth and her friend, Gertrude Hunter, identified the young man as LHO and the woman who accompanied him as Marina Oswald (HARVEY was working at the TSBD).
  • Nov 9 (Sat), Sports Drome Rifle Range. LEE Oswald had his rifle sighted-in by Floyd Guy Davis, owner of the range. (HARVEY was at Ruth Paine's house with wife and daughters).
  • Nov 10 (Sun), Sports Drome Rifle Range. LEE Oswald was observed by Garland Slack firing a rifle on a 100-yard line in booth #6 or #8. That evening Harvey Lawill Wade saw a man he later identified as LHO sitting at a table with two other men in the Carousel Club (HARVEY was at Ruth Paine's house with wife and daughters).
  • Nov 14 (Thurs), At 12:40 PM Jack Ruby came into the New Port Motel in Morgan City, LA. He asked clerk Corrine Verges Villard if he could speak with Pete Guarisco, and was told that Pete was attending a Rotary Club meeting. As Jack and Corrine began to talk a young man, wearing a white t-shirt and faded blue jeans,  entered and sat at a nearby table. Jack talked with Corrine for a half-hour, discussed his business in Dallas, and said that he was trying to charter a plane out of Patterson, LA (7 miles from Morgan City). At 1:10 PM Ruby walked out the front door while the young man walked out the side door. Both men got into same vehicle and drove away. When shown a photo of Oswald, Corrine said that she was sure this was the man who sat at the nearby table a week earlier (HARVEY was working at the TSBD in Dallas).
  • Nov 16 (Sat), Sports Drome Rifle Range. LEE Oswald entered booth #5 and began firing his rifle. Dr. Homer Wood and his 13-year old son, Sterling Charles Wood, asked the man if he was shooting a 6.5 Italian carbine. The man replied, “Yes, it is.” Following the assassination both Dr. Wood and his son identified the man as LHO (HARVEY was at Ruth Paine's house with wife and daughters).
  • Nov 17 (Sun), Sports Drome Rifle Range. LEE Oswald made sure he would be remembered as he shot at targets that belonged to Garland Slack, the man in the next booth. After leaving the rifle range LEE Oswald drove to Jack's Bar on Exposition St. in Dallas. It was there that LEE met Vern Davis, and began talking about President Kennedy's upcoming trip and specifically mentioned the Dallas Trade Mart. Jack Ruby, whom Davis had known for 10 years, entered the bar and said hello to Davis (HARVEY was at Ruth Paine's house with wife and daughters).
  • Nov 20 (Wed), Ralph Yates picked up a hitch-hiker who was carrying a 4-1/2 ft long package that he said contained “curtain rods”. This man asked Yates if he though a man could be shot from a window in a tall building. The young man then showed Yates a photograph of a man holding a rifle and asked Yates if he thought the President could be killed with an identical rifle. The man then asked Yates if he knew the President's parade route, and then asked Yates to drop him off at Elm and Houston (TSBD).  (HARVEY was working at the TSBD the entire day).
  • Nov 21 (Thur), about 9:00 PM a young man knocked on the door of apartment #206 at 223 S. Ewing, which was occupied by an SMU Professor. A friend of the Professor, Helen McIntosh, opened the door and saw a young man who asked for “Jack”. The Professor told Miss McIntosh that “Jack” (Jack Ruby) lived next door in apartment #207. The next day, following the assassination of President Kennedy, Helen saw a photograph of LHO on television. She immediately recognized him as the man who appeared the night before at the Professor's apartment. (After work, HARVEY rode with Wesley Frazier to Ruth Paine's in Irving, TX, where he spent the evening.)
  • Nov 22-(Fri), while LEE OSWALD was on the 6th floor of the TSBD, attracting attention from onlookers below who would be able to provide a description of the President's assassin, HARVEY Oswald was in the lunchroom. After the shooting, four witnesses saw LEE Oswald get into a Nash Rambler station wagon and leave Dealey Plaza, while HARVEY Oswald left Dealey Plaza by city bus and then by taxi.

     

In October, a three-man musical "combo" group was performing in Ruby's club that consisted of John Anderson (trumpet), Bill Willis (drums), and William Simmons (piano). The small group worked only four hours a day, from 9 PM to 1 AM. Curiously, and without explanation, Willis and Simmons lived fifteen miles away from the Carousel Club, in a house located at 2530 W. 5th in Irving, TX., just 200 feet west on th

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  • 2 months later...
John Kozlowski Newbie

John Kozlowski

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Posted
On 1/6/2019 at 8:03 PM, Rich Pope said:

I said pictures are deceptive not because I don't believe the person watching the stripper wasn't LHO, I said it for another reason.  In another thread, I made the comment that Marina Oswald had bad teeth that she was embarrassed about.  And that Marina and Lee argued about it because they didn't have the money to get them fixed.  Then someone posted two pictures of Marina in 1965 showing Marina with beautiful teeth and a wonderful smile.  The  pictures were misleading because Marina had her teeth fixed in 1964 (according to an article in Life Magazine and other sources) from all the donations she received from people who were sympathetic to her.  So the person who posted the pictures actually didn't do any research on my claim because it was easier to find a picture or two that made me look like I was wrong.  When in actuality, my comment was true.  Now, going to the Carousel Club doesn't mean you know the manager (Jack Ruby).  The true owner was Carlos Marcello.  It only means you went to the club.  And showing a picture of LHO watching a stripper doesn't mean he knew Ruby, it only means he was there watching a stripper.  I can't tell you how many strip clubs I went to in my youth and I can PROMISE you I didn't know the owner.  You have to provide MORE than a picture to make the claim LHO knew Ruby.

Is there proof Marcello was involved in the Carousel Club? Ruby had a partner in 1952 with a Joe Slatin and they opened the Sovereign Club which later became the Carousel. After Slatin and Ruby broke off their business relationship Ruby turned to Ralph Paul for financial help in 1960.

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Steve Thomas Veteran

Steve Thomas

Posted
Posted
On 12/28/2018 at 7:00 PM, Tom Wilson said:

 He said Tippit knew Ruby very well.

Tom,

 

I don't know if you are still following this topic, but it was a different Tippit.

The Tippit who knew Jack Ruby was G.M. Tippit. He worked in the Special Service Bureau. See page 3 of Bachelor's Exhibit 5002 (page 4 of the pdf file).

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf

One of the focuses (or foci) of the Special Service Bureau was Vice, and as such, G.M. would drop in on the Carousel occassionally.

G.M.'s first name was Gayle, and he was sort of embarrassed by that and preferred to be called, "Tip".

I corresponded with Tip for about six months, 15 or 20 years ago. He told me he liked Jack. He thought he was a "character".

Tip was up on the fourth floor when Jack shot Lee Oswald, and didn't speak with Jack afterwards.

 

Steve Thomas

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