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1 hour ago, Robert Card said:

You both got it right.   I mentioned that I came onto this site to only ask for some pictures, and then I would be on my way.   But I'm shocked to see after being gone for 15 years, that the same Warren Commission re-hash is going on, the only difference being a much more polite and cordial LNer.

So what's their angle?  In my view, they're trying to keep the discussion focusing on this re-hash of the WC report, so nothing will ever be resolved, AND to keep the discussion from going further down the rabbit hole to determine who was behind the coup d'etat, and why.  Even some of you CTer's could use some research in this area.  It's fascinating, and you can use the info you gain from JFK, and apply it to current events like the Kavanaugh hearings, Brexit, Russia, or whatever you want.  I warn you though, the nutwork has set up a 'brick wall' in front of every avenue of truth.

Cliff and John are correct, ignore them.

 

 

Oh, really ?
Is that all you can come up with ?
Ignore those who rely on science, facts, experiments, panels of experts, logic and common sense ?
You probably prefer to stick to conspiracy theories. But which one ? Lifton's ? Groden's ? DiEugenio's ? Armstrong's ? Fetzer's ? Do you even care whose theory, as long as you can please yourself claiming that a proven assassin was in reality a poor innocent man ?
Ok, and when you manage to show the world that Oswald was innocent, don't forget to proceed showing us that Christopher Porco and Scott Peterson were patsies too !...

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11 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Here we are discussing a government coverup, and Francois comes along and says no, there is no coverup... because the government says so.

No wonder he's clueless.

 

Well, I must admit that I did not know that science, facts, experiments, logic and common sense come from the government.
(Maybe
in your conspiracy world they do ? Go figure !)

Edited by François Carlier
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16 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Here we are discussing a government coverup, and Francois comes along and says no, there is no coverup... because the government says so.

No wonder he's clueless.

 

Where did I mention the government ? You might consider buying a magnifier...

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36 minutes ago, François Carlier said:
54 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Here we are discussing a government coverup, and Francois comes along and says no, there is no coverup... because the government says so.

No wonder he's clueless.


Where did I mention the government ? You might consider buying a magnifier...
 

 

How quickly you forget, Francois. Here (and elsewhere) you say that you accept what the government said:

 

On 12/21/2018 at 2:37 PM, François Carlier said:

Me ? I don't "believe" anything. I simply repeat what the [HSCA] experts have said (namely that the x-rays and photographs have been proven authentic) and what the key autopsy doctor vouched for (namely that the wound was not at the back of the head).
....
YES, I ignore the contadiction, as you put it, because I know critical thinking and I know what the best evidence has to be in this case. I follow the rules of logic. I do not consider myself more knowledgeable than Doctor Humes, nor do I claim to know better than the HSCA experts.

 

The HSCA is the government, as I'm sure you know.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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But the thing is FC, like his soul brother Litwin, does not even seem aware of how the HSCA tests have all been either demolished or brought into serious question.

And this was done largely based upon the declassified documents of the ARRB.  Which he and DVP all but ignore. I did this in short form in The Assassinations, once I read through some of the HSCA docs in the nineties that the ARRB set loose.  (pp. 69-86)  But, for example, Pat Speer has done  even longer and more detailed demolitions of, for example, Canning and Guinn and Baden.  Gary Aguilar, again, based on declassified  docs, has shown that the claim of photographic authenticity may or may not be true.  Because the HSCA found the right camera but we do not know if they located the right camera and lens. (pp. 279-80)  I guess The Assassinations is a book that, again, FC does not have in his 200 volume library.

As per the X-rays, these claims are  inexplicable. Let me repeat why.  Because the Fisher Panel disagreed with the original autopsy on two key points: the disappearing particle trail and the 6.5   mm fragment.

 Again, it is really hard to imagine that these guys missed all this information. I mean 200 books and FC never stumbled across any of this?

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6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

But the thing is FC, like his soul brother Litwin, does not even seem aware of how the HSCA tests have all been either demolished or brought into serious question.

And this was done largely based upon the declassified documents of the ARRB.  Which he and DVP all but ignore. I did this in short form in The Assassinations, once I read through some of the HSCA docs in the nineties that the ARRB set loose.  (pp. 69-86)  But, for example, Pat Speer has done  even longer and more detailed demolitions of, for example, Canning and Guinn and Baden.  Gary Aguilar, again, based on declassified  docs, has shown that the claim of photographic authenticity may or may not be true.  Because the HSCA found the right camera but we do not know if they located the right camera and lens. (pp. 279-80)  I guess The Assassinations is a book that, again, FC does not have in his 200 volume library.

As per the X-rays, these claims are  inexplicable. Let me repeat why.  Because the Fisher Panel disagreed with the original autopsy on two key points: the disappearing particle trail and the 6.5   mm fragment.

 Again, it is really hard to imagine that these guys missed all this information. I mean 200 books and FC never stumbled across any of this?

To James DiEugenio and Sandy Larsen :
OK, so, if I understand you well, the US government lied to the people through the HSCA, then the same US government let the people know the truth through the ARRB and the release of documents ?
(some government !)

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6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

But the thing is FC, like his soul brother Litwin, does not even seem aware of how the HSCA tests have all been either demolished or brought into serious question.

And this was done largely based upon the declassified documents of the ARRB.  Which he and DVP all but ignore. I did this in short form in The Assassinations, once I read through some of the HSCA docs in the nineties that the ARRB set loose.  (pp. 69-86)  But, for example, Pat Speer has done  even longer and more detailed demolitions of, for example, Canning and Guinn and Baden.  Gary Aguilar, again, based on declassified  docs, has shown that the claim of photographic authenticity may or may not be true.  Because the HSCA found the right camera but we do not know if they located the right camera and lens. (pp. 279-80)  I guess The Assassinations is a book that, again, FC does not have in his 200 volume library.

As per the X-rays, these claims are  inexplicable. Let me repeat why.  Because the Fisher Panel disagreed with the original autopsy on two key points: the disappearing particle trail and the 6.5   mm fragment.

 Again, it is really hard to imagine that these guys missed all this information. I mean 200 books and FC never stumbled across any of this?

It is true that I do not own your book "The assassinations" and have never read it. I'll try to buy it in the future.

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9 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

How quickly you forget, Francois. Here (and elsewhere) you say that you accept what the government said:

 

 

The HSCA is the government, as I'm sure you know.

 

I'm not sure that I understand.
The HSCA panel of experts concluded that the x-rays and photographs were authentic.
I believe that they were serious and genuine experts who used their expertise to reach a conclusion. No "government" involved at all here.
What are you insinuating ? That the panel of experts merely repeated what the "government" told them to say, without bothering to use their knowledge ?

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54 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

What are you insinuating ? That the panel of experts merely repeated what the "government" told them to say, without bothering to use their knowledge ?

Certainly they would use their knowledge. But I daresay that most people, whatever their level of expertise, will think twice before crossing the government on something as serious as a presidential assassination. They might deem it best for themselves, their careers and their loved ones to use their knowledge to come up with the "right" answers.

As a prime example, why do you think the experts who were given the task by the government of explaining how/why the twin towers collapsed on 9/11 did not even test the debris for explosives?  

 

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20 hours ago, François Carlier said:

Oh, really ?
Is that all you can come up with ?
Ignore those who rely on science, facts, experiments, panels of experts, logic and common sense ?
You probably prefer to stick to conspiracy theories. But which one ? Lifton's ? Groden's ? DiEugenio's ? Armstrong's ? Fetzer's ? Do you even care whose theory, as long as you can please yourself claiming that a proven assassin was in reality a poor innocent man ?
Ok, and when you manage to show the world that Oswald was innocent, don't forget to proceed showing us that Christopher Porco and Scott Peterson were patsies too !...

This is exactly what I'm talking about.   Francois's comment has nothing to do with my comment.  Francois comment is also pure ad hominem, which is all they have.

My comment is in support of the OP, in explaining why the LNers are here.  Francois does not address that at all, but makes up some nonsense about me being associated with the innocence of Scott Peterson, and I've never heard of Christopher Porco as I live in South America.

Why do you waste your time with these LNer's?  They're job is to wear you down, and make you go away.  I have the utmost respect for Mr DiEugenio, but he's actually promoting the LN side by responding to the LN nonsense.

Are you still going to be discussing Ruth Paine 15 years from now?

 

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Turn the table on them if you are going to engage. Ask them what is imperfect about the investigations, what potentially could be minutely flawed with their timelines. 

 Put the ball in their court and stop responding to the , ‘ yeah but in this tiny specific situation I will ridicule you and say that I and only I use common sense and you wear a tin hat ‘ . 

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1 hour ago, Robert Card said:

Why do you waste your time with these LNer's?  They're job is to wear you down, and make you go away.  I have the utmost respect for Mr DiEugenio, but he's actually promoting the LN side by responding to the LN nonsense.

 

It took me a long time to realize this myself.

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40 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

Turn the table on them if you are going to engage. Ask them what is imperfect about the investigations, what potentially could be minutely flawed with their timelines. 

 Put the ball in their court and stop responding to the , ‘ yeah but in this tiny specific situation I will ridicule you and say that I and only I use common sense and you wear a tin hat ‘ . 

Jake, my point is why engage them in the first place when the WC report is just nonsense.  You have at least two members of the WC that didn't buy it themselves.  LHO is standing in the first floor doorway while JFK is being shot.  The HSCA contradicted the WC in saying that it was  'probably a conspiracy.'  

When you engage them, you're playing their game of disinformation, and holding you down to the WC report, which like i said, is nonsense.

JFK was murdered, he had two brothers murdered, he had a sister murdered, and his son was murdered.   there's a whole lot more out there that the LNer's are trying to keep everyone from learning more.

Some are not even LNer's.  Lance knows what evidence is better than most, and he's no LNer.  He's doing a cheap imitation of Snopes in muddying up the waters.  I like when he gets caught, he says, "Let me re-phrase my comment", hahahaha.  They're just playing with you.

So Jake, why waste your time?  I guarantee you you're not going to change their minds because their job is solely to waste your time, not to learn or concede anything.  

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