Explain this and I'll take you more seriously

[Jake Hammond]

Ok I forfeit the smoke evidence, lots of witnesses said they saw a puff of smoke, and , yes it would have originated at the juncture of the triple underpass , that’s where the lost likely place is and where people initially ran to. However I admit that it is inconclusive . At least now though you are engaging evidence and arguing. 

 Let’s get stuck in then to some more realistic stuff. 

-How did the lone gunman fire off those two close shots at the end ? 

- how did he manage to suppress the shot that hit jfk in the neck and connally in the armpit ( singke bullet ) but then unsuppress it at the 285 shot that makes everyone literally jump. Including kellerman and  Zapruda, the ‘ firecracker shot and the Loud shot were reported by everyone ... crack pots ? 

- how did he manage to fire three shots and leave two cases at the scene ? 

- how did a distinctly average shooter shoot one shot that missed by about 10 feet but nail the other two ? With the worlds worst weapon ? 

- how did he get that weapon if the money order for it  was never cashed ? 

- why keep the fake ID you used in your wallet ? 

I could go on . There was a lot more in my ‘ a day in the life ‘ . 

[Jake Hammond]

On 12/23/2018 at 2:08 PM, Jake Hammond said:

'A day in the life'..... of a Lone Gunman

 1 - You're a TV celeb, pro cuba commie and want to kill the president to make yourself feel big and give you some kudos.

2 - You find out before anybody else in the world that the President is coming to town and you know the route, so obviously you get a job in a building on the route and plan to kill him from a room which only a few people, including you, go into. Thats smart, they wouldn't expect that.

2b - before you go any further you throw a red herring... you break into CIA langley, write a 201 file and keep it with Staff D, make a CIA assett code name for yourself and insert' Oswald project into a few documents. This is brilliant, add a gold star to your lapel sir. 

3 - You need a gun, something untraceable, something really accurate and quiet. So... You ask Robert Mckeown, Castro's best bud, if he can get you a crappy Walmart rifle if you pay him a massive amount of money, because that is like, so totally obvious it can't be true. He says no. You then write a money order in a fake name you've created and mail it to the gun company. However, you have to call them explain that you don't actually want the money order cashing because you're a socialist and have no money but need a gun to kill the president. They are understanding and take pity on you  but can only send you a Carcano for free, the cheapest, most useless weapon. Thats not a problem though because you're a super special sniper and really confident guy. 

4 -You then realise that the best thing to do would be to have that weapon be a decoy, to prove your innocence and throw a red herring. So... you don't practice with the weapon or use it on the day , in order to keep the barrel nice and rusty. Also, after dismantling it and putting it back together you reattach the strap, thats just a bit of fun. So, you have the worst weapon ever, re-assembled at the scene ( to further emphasise that it couldn't have been used with any accuracy ), unfired... Perfect ! 

5 - Now you need two weapons, one to fire the shot at z- 235 through the neck, a nice quiet one, then a second much louder weapon that you just fire for fun at 285 and 315ish. After you use your magic wand, the one you used to use to make yourself appear in two places at one time between ages 13 and 20, to make the two real weapons disappear. 

6- Then to confuse them even more what you do is not shoot as the president is coming straight towards you down Houston, and you have no danger of hitting anyone else, that's too obvious. You wait till the turn and the car is on a curve going down hill away from you , and Boom ! This makes CTers years later think that you formed a triangulation on the triangle of Dealy plaza North, LOL. 

7 - You previously set up a friend to shoot from the grassy knoll to leave some smoke and make sure that there is mass confusion and everyone think thats  where the bullets came from. 

8- Darn ! you hit JFK in the head twice when you (almost) simultaneously fired the two weapons, attempting a confusing miss with one and a headshot with the other. Never mind; more confusion !

9- Then, you hang around in a few different places at the same time in the building you work in and JFK was shot from so people see you, which makes sense. But then leave the building casually before the headcount.

10- Now, the last thing they'll suspect is that you go and watch a movie. You've checked your wallet and yup, you remembered to keep the fake ID used to buy the decoy gun in there. Not a massive issue if you'd forgotten because you dropped off a spare with Westbrook a few days earlier just in case - pat on the back big boy !

11 - So as to not arouse suspicion you hide in the doorway of a busy store when the cops roll past not looking for you, then because you need your $10 you have to flee the country , after your movie, you don't buy a ticket for the movie and make sure people see you run in and not buy one, so you don't get caught and stuff. Except you bribe the girl on the booth to tell people that you did buy one. To be sociable you then go and introduce yourself to the five other people on the ground floor of the cinema and sit right next to them sequentially , thats not weird. 

12- Fortunately,  a guy who is identical to you walks in just after and also doesn't buy a ticket, he then gets arrested on the balcony, led out the fire escape ! YAY ! darn it ! Westbrook just let him go without a report ! Oh well, you tried your best old boy......

Again. Yeah there’s a bit of sarcasm, pathos and litotes on there but it was a rebuttal to your bullet points. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jake Hammond said:

how did he get that weapon if the money order for it  was never cashed ? 

Jake, in approximately 2014 Young Mr. Payette, in two hours on Google, discovered to the chagrin of conspiracy theorists what they had overlooked for 50 years:  The postal money order bears on its face a rather prominent File Locator Number.  The upshot of this is that the money order passed through the Federal Reserve processing system and was deposited into the storage facility in Alexandria where, voila, it was subsequently located.  There is no mystery.  Young Mr. Payette also demonstrated that the Chicago bank official who had supposedly said the money order should have bank endorsements, as asserted by John Armstrong and supported by a footnote in H&L that did not check out, had said no such thing.  The silence from Mr. Armstrong and his followers was deafening.  Young Mr. Payette also demonstrated - over the squeals of protest from Lawyer Sandy - why a postal money order that was initially deposited in a bank that was a member of the Federal Reserve system (as this one was) would not have any endorsements - but a money order that was deposited in a non-member bank and entered the Federal Reserve system through a clearinghouse bank indeed would.

BTW, three shell casings were discovered.

I just will not engage in these endless "Oh, yeah, what about THIS?" games because they are indeed endless and just go round and round.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

I'll deposit one more impertinent lump of coal in you folks' Christmas stockings.  This to me is one of the common sense and logic Rosetta stones of the assassination.  Provide me with any plausible explanation for a Presidential assassination conspiracy whereby:

• the day before the assassination, the patsy asks a coworker for a ride to the residence 13 miles away where his rifle is stored in the garage;
• the patsy retrieves his rifle from the garage;
• the patsy pleads with his wife, no less than three times, to reunite their family (and his wife believed he would never have carried out the assassination if she had said yes);
• the morning of the assassination, the patsy strolls down the street with the disassembled rifle in a paper bag;
• the patsy tosses the rifle in the back seat of his coworker's car and claims it is curtain rods;
• at the end of the 13-mile trip, the patsy carries the rifle under his arm into the TSBD.

Do you realize how many very foreseeable risks are associated with this scenario???  Someone just "being Oswald" might well have done this.  If one of the risks materialized, he could have simply provided some "Oswaldian" explanation and abandoned his wacky plan.  But do you seriously believe that sophisticated conspirators would have allowed their patsy to run these risks?  The answer is so obviously no that the True Believer is forced to expand his web of conspirators and facilitators to include Ruth, Marina, Frazier, Linnie Mae, Truly and others in the TSBD.  In the wildest scenarios, none of what I have set forth above actually happened, common sense and logic be damned.

[Jake Hammond]

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

Jake, in approximately 2014 Young Mr. Payette, in two hours on Google, discovered to the chagrin of conspiracy theorists what they had overlooked for 50 years:  The postal money order bears on its face a rather prominent File Locator Number.  The upshot of this is that the money order passed through the Federal Reserve processing system and was deposited into the storage facility in Alexandria where, voila, it was subsequently located.  There is no mystery.  Young Mr. Payette also demonstrated that the Chicago bank official who had supposedly said the money order should have bank endorsements, as asserted by John Armstrong and supported by a footnote in H&L that did not check out, had said no such thing.  The silence from Mr. Armstrong and his followers was deafening.  Young Mr. Payette also demonstrated - over the squeals of protest from Lawyer Sandy - why a postal money order that was initially deposited in a bank that was a member of the Federal Reserve system (as this one was) would not have any endorsements - but a money order that was deposited in a non-member bank and entered the Federal Reserve system through a clearinghouse bank indeed would.

BTW, three shell casings were discovered.

I just will not engage in these endless "Oh, yeah, what about THIS?" games because they are indeed endless and just go round and round.

I stand corrected on that point then. Yes, I’m reading Harvey and Lee at the moment so it’s in my sights . Apologies .

Not sure on the shell casings.  

Edited December 24, 2018 by Jake Hammond

[Jake Hammond]

Can you please explain though the points I keep asking about ? I am willing to concede them , as you can see. 

-  The closeness of the shots at the end . was everyone lying AND Oswald was a superman with a rifle ? 

-  The reactions of the limo passengers at z-285. ( this proves 4 shots because it isn’t one of the closely bunched shots at the end ) . Unless , again, everyone is a crackpot. 

- the thinking of shooting someone from your okace of work 

I cant help but argue I’m sorry, I had come here to ask a few questions and absorb some knowledge not get into heated debates. 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Jake Hammond

[David Von Pein]

28 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

-  The closeness of the shots at the end.

Keep in mind, Jake, that there WERE several witnesses who said the last two shots were NOT bunched together. My link below documents those witnesses....

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/05/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-710.html

 

Quote

-  The reactions of the limo passengers at z-285. ( this proves 4 shots because it isn’t one of the closely bunched shots at the end ) . Unless , again, everyone is a crackpot. 

It sounds to me as if you've taken to heart the "Z285" theory put forth by a Mr. Robert Harris on the Internet several years ago. I've argued with Bob many times regarding his "Z285" conclusions, which I deem to have virtually no merit at all (for a variety of reasons). See link below (which includes multiple articles at my site if you scroll far enough down)....

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Robert+Harris+Z285

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

Can you please explain though the points I keep asking about ? I am willing to concede them , as you can see. 

-  The closeness of the shots at the end . was everyone lying AND Oswald was a superman with a rifle ? 

-  The reactions of the limo passengers at z-285. ( this proves 4 shots because it isn’t one of the closely bunched shots at the end ) . Unless , again, everyone is a crackpot. 

- the thinking of shooting someone from your okace of work 

I cant help but argue I’m sorry, I had come here to ask a few questions and absorb some knowledge not get into heated debates. 

Jake, I don't want to give the impression that I'm some fount of JFK minutiae, because I'm certainly not.  The debate about the precise timing of the shots rages on.  I am satisfied that Oswald did nothing truly extraordinary.  I don't know if you've ever experienced the altered sense of time that sometimes occurs in a really high-stress situation, but I have and it's very strange.  I had one instance where under such stress I accomplished a physical feat that seems impossible and that I have been unable to duplicate despite 1000 attempts over many years.  Although there will be howls of protest, I respect the work of Dale K. Myers:  http://www.jfkfiles.com/, http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/.  Other than that, I'll let someone who is more into the minutiae respond.

[Jake Hammond]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Keep in mind, Jake, that there WERE several witnesses who said the last two shots were NOT bunched together. My link below documents those witnesses....

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/05/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-710.html

 

It sounds to me as if you've taken to heart the "Z285" theory put forth by a Mr. Robert Harris on the Internet several years ago. I've argued with Bob many times regarding his "Z285" conclusions, which I deem to have virtually no merit at all (for a variety of reasons). See link below (which includes multiple articles at my site if you scroll far enough down)....

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Robert+Harris+Z285

 

I’ll have a look, it does seem to work though as far as I can see. Thank you. 

[Jake Hammond]

Ok, I read most of the exchange and I have to say DVP it’s a bit of a nothing burger. In my opinion there is a definite ‘ something ‘ at z285 . 

Also I think using 399 as evidence is just a little bit of a stretch even for a staunch LNer. Let me just say that we need people at all points of the spectrum. Especially those like yourself who actually make sound arguments and present them. 

I’ll  have to disagree for now but Merry Christmas and a happy new Year. Hopefully soon after new year I will be able to conduct a more Cliff acceptable SBT experiment and gain his undying love and affection 😀 

[David Andrews]

Jake, I encourage you and all new and recent members to research questions in the back threads of this forum, going back more than a decade.  While good material from Jim DiEugenio, David Josephs, Chris Davidson, Bill Kelley and more (no slights intended by omissions) continues to appear, those threads represent the golden years of EF, and a lot was well researched and thoroughly discussed then.  The back threads are preserved for good reason: they're a trove of knowledge.  That, and a history of DVP's contributions.

Edited December 25, 2018 by David Andrews

[Cliff Varnell]

8 hours ago, Jake Hammond said:

Hopefully soon after new year I will be able to conduct a more Cliff acceptable SBT experiment and gain his undying love and affection 😀 

I’ve enjoyed a recent moment of clarity which has left me totally disinterested in anything you do, say or write.

It’s not an “experiment “ when there’s a desired outcome on your part— that’s just a disingenuous demonstration.

A half dozen Federal agents and more than a half dozen medical professionals described the back wound in a manner consistent with T3.

The Dealey Plaza photos show a fraction of an inch of jacket elevation.

Your evident inability to honestly weigh the evidence is none of my concern.

Edited December 25, 2018 by Cliff Varnell

[Sandy Larsen]

15 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Young Mr. Payette also demonstrated - over the squeals of protest from Lawyer Sandy - why a postal money order that was initially deposited in a bank that was a member of the Federal Reserve system (as this one was) would not have any endorsements - but a money order that was deposited in a non-member bank and entered the Federal Reserve system through a clearinghouse bank indeed would.

 

Jake,

Ask Lance to prove that fairy tale he wrote and I highlighted in red above. He won't be able to.

The postal money order was not bank stamped, but was required to be by federal regulation. Below is  a link to my proof of that. Lance couldn't accept that as fact and came up with an excuse for the money order not having bank stamps. First he said that an agreement between the Federal Reserve and Postal Service stipulated that PMOs didn't require bank stamps. But by the time I found the agreement and pointed it out, Lance had already come up an "improved" excuse for the lack of stamps. He claimed that Federal Reserve member banks (like Kleins' bank) are essentially an extension of the Federal Reserve Banks and therefore did not need to stamp PMOs. Or anything else, for that matter.

Of course Lance just made that up. He has nothing to back it up... other than his high intellect and 35 years as an exemplary lawyer.

Following is the proof. It's pretty easy reading... after my introduction just read the red-highlighted text.
 

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Sandy Larsen

[Jake Hammond]

7 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Jake, I encourage you and all new and recent members to research questions in the back threads of this forum, going back more than a decade.  While good material from Jim DiEugenio, David Josephs, Chris Davidson, Bill Kelley and more (no slights intended by omissions) continues to appear, those threads represent the golden years of EF, and a lot was well researched and thoroughly discussed then.  The back threads are preserved for good reason: they're a trove of knowledge.  That, and a history of DVP's contributions.

Yes, I carrtainly will. I hadn’t meant to get into debate so quickly. I’ll do a second experiment and read some older threads, especially regarding the 12.30-2.00 p.m period. 

As an excuse I think when there is a strong LN argument in the threads it’s jmpossibke not to get involved because if they are right ... then there’s no point having the forum at all. Merry Christmas 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Jake, I encourage you and all new and recent members to research questions in the back threads of this forum, going back more than a decade.  While good material from Jim DiEugenio, David Josephs, Chris Davidson, Bill Kelley and more (no slights intended by omissions) continues to appear, those threads represent the golden years of EF, and a lot was well researched and thoroughly discussed then.  The back threads are preserved for good reason: they're a trove of knowledge.  That, and a history of DVP's contributions.

Ah, yes, the Golden Age that never was, where conspiracy sages in flowing robes said wise conspiracy things as conspiracy believers hugged themselves and each other and strew rose petals in their path, unfettered by any hint of dissension or disbelief except the occasional court jester.  Where diametrically opposed conspiracy theories were greeted with nothing more than a fond chuckle and a respectful, “Well, I will concede you may have a point, my good fellow.”  Where the near-constant warnings about Membership Behavior were simply ironic little jokes and understood as such by the denizens of Conspiracy Land, who were delighted that their moderators would inject this bit of levity into their bucolic proceedings.

But now, alas, the very foundations of Conspiracy Land are being examined.  Conspiracy sages and their followers are no longer able to peacefully discuss what happened at frame 225 of the obviously altered Zapruder film and whether this is more consistent with conspiracy theory 9 or conspiracy theory 17.  Dark forces are raising questions such “Why do people think this way?” and “Do conspiracy theories 9 and 17 make any sense at all?”  Sometimes these dark forces dare to cast grave doubt on the very factoids on which conspiracy theories 9 and 17 rest.  One might almost say that Conspiracy Land has been - yes! - weaponized.®™

The denizens of Conspiracy Land understandably don’t like it.  “Return us to the Golden Age!” they cry.  “Ban the dark forces, boycott them, call them names!  They are unworthy, they are disinformation agents, they are spoiling our fun!”

“Psychological research shows that feelings of nostalgia are often triggered by negative moods, anxiety, or insecurity.  Nostalgia allows for a retreat into a state of order in which life is more predictable and thus serves as a internal stabilizing-mechanism.”  The Power of the Past, https://eupinions.eu/de/text/the-power-of-the-past/. 

“Collective nostalgia, through its association with outgroup-directed anger, predicted higher involvement in collective action that benefits the ingroup.”  Collective Nostalgia Is Associated With Stronger Outgroup-Directed Anger and Participation in Ingroup-Favoring Collective Action, Journal of Social and Political Psychology, Vol. 5, No. 2 (2017), https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/697/html. 

“Things ain’t as good as they used to be, and probably never was.” – Will Rogers.

Relax, a little self-examination is a good thing.  It strengthens beliefs that are well-founded and exposes those that are not.  This is why, across the entire spectrum of belief, intractable fundamentalists so strenuously resist it.

41 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

As an excuse I think when there is a strong LN argument in the threads it’s jmpossibke not to get involved because if they are right ... then there’s no point having the forum at all.

I don't believe that's true.  But it is reflective of the prevailing attitude here:  The Lone Nut position threatens our very existence!  We can cheerfully tolerate people who think JFK was killed by the Vatican-Jesuits-Knights of Malta because they are at least fellow believers, but those who hold the Lone Nut position are atheists.  If they start making inroads, our church - our religion - will collapse like a house of cards.  Only if it is a house of cards, my dears, only if it is a house of cards.