Edwin Walker

[Ernie Lazar]

I have a theory that can be supported with specific evidence. But for now I would like to "float" the idea out there, (here), and get a general reaction/opinions regarding it's premise.

An event leading up to the president's assassination that I feel has been mistakenly ignored by in large was Oswald's alleged attempt on the life of retired general Edwin Walker. Case in point, I recall debating with another researcher about Oswald's choice of weapon for the assassination of JFK. He argued that the Carcano was ill equipped for the task of firing multiple shots at a moving target. My reply was simply that Oswald had not ordered the rifle with that in mind. My contention was that Oswald had in fact ordered the rifle with the intention of firing one shot at a stationary target, namely Edwin Walker.

As this section of the forum pertains more specifically to the Kennedy administration, allow me to refocus a bit. In 1963 we were entering into an election year. Barring history's rather skewed image of JFK in light of his assassination, what were his chances of re-election, and what were the major obstacles he faced in this endeavor?

In terms of foreign policy, I would put Cuba at the top of this list. The failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion, which publicly JFK took responsibility for and which would ultimately lead to the Cuban missile crisis, I believe would have been political fodder for any republican opponent he may have faced in the 64' election.

Domestically, the raging battle over civil rights, particularly in the south, was escalating to a point at which the federal government had quickly become the only "stop-gap" between state authority and all out anarchy as a response to integration. This situation came to a boiling point on the campus of the University of Mississippi resulting in several deaths and the shooting of federal marshals sent there to keep the peace. Edwin Walker was a central figure in this debacle, and he would prove, as his past would suggest, that he was a man to be reckoned with... possibly seen by some as a risk to national security.

Following the incident at 'Ole Miss' attorney general Robert Kennedy took aggressive action against Walker, (let's not forget that it was JFK himself who relieved Walker of his command in Germany). However, both of the attorney general's tactics failed miserably. Walker's indictment for sedition was struck down by a southern grand jury. Kennedy's subsequent attempt to have Walker committed to a mental institution also failed, with the head psychologist publicly denouncing the AG's actions as nothing more than a politically motivated act of revenge...

I'm new here guys/gals, so go easy on me. I wrote this in one sitting. I'm sure there are errors. Thanks to those of you who had the patience to read the entire thread! More to come if there is an interest in it.

Regards,

Craig C.

Very interesting post, Craig.

Volkmar Schdmit says that he convinced Oswald that Walker was "as bad as Adolf Hitler" in late February 1963. Also, George DeMohrenschildt used to call General Walker, "General Fokker" to make LHO laugh. It was after Volkmar's persuasion that LHO purchased his rifle.

Volkmar denies that he told LHO to kill Walker -- but actually, he did tell LHO that Walker was "as bad as Hitler." So, it's a fairly short step. Anyway, Volkmar (who is now dead) agreed with you -- LHO purchased his rifle specifically to kill Edwin Walker.

On your point about JFK and Cuba -- I agree entirely with you that the Right wing, but especially the Radical Right wing in the USA was terrified about JFK's policies with regard to Cuba. I note the rise of the Minutemen, coast-to-coast, in response to Cuba.

I would refer you to the movie starring Patrick Swayze, Red Dawn, (1984) which was written during the Cuba crisis, but was not turned into a movie until 15 years later. It gives a fairly clear idea of the fears of the Minutemen in their literature of the period. They truly, truly believed that JFK was a Communist. The JBS confirmed this fear for them in their more sophisticated journals.

Add the fears of the Minutemen to the terrors of the South regarding the Brown Decision, and we find Guy Banister -- a member of BOTH the Minutemen and the White Citizens Council in New Orleans.

And in Dallas, we find General Walker as a member of BOTH the Minutemen and the White Citizens Council in Dallas.

It is not accidental to find LHO in the company of both circles in 1963.

In the opinion of Ron Lewis, who claims to have briefly befriended LHO in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. LHO said that it was *because* of his role in the Walker shooting, that Guy Banister was blackmailing him -- sending him out with FPCC fliers, and on radio and TV and to Mexico City and so forth.

Yes, JFK and General Walker clashed most violently at Ole Miss, with thousands of supporters on each side. (Yet you're mistaken that JFK relieved Walker of his command. The JCS did that. JFK wanted to keep Walker in the Army, because it looked so bad for a General to resign. JFK offered Walker another job in Hawaii. Walker turned it down. Walker resigned -- forfeiting his pension -- he was the only US General in the 20th century to do that. But that was really the 2nd time General Walker resigned -- he also tried to resign under Eisenhower, but Eisenhower tore up the resignation. JFK did accept Walker's resignation, but it's a common myth that JFK "fired" Walker. Nothing of the kind.)

Perhaps JFK"s biggest blunder was sending General Walker to an insane asylum in 1962, instead of just arresting him for the Ole Miss riots. Because of that blunder, Walker's attorneys only had to convince the Grand Jury that Walker was sane -- and he was fully acquitted.

You know a lot about Walker, Craig. Have you read the work by Chis Cravens (1990)?

If you are thinking that Walker masterminded the JFK assassination in Dallas, Craig, then you are joining a fast-growing new branch of the JFK CT community.

There is a new book on this topic, entitled, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015) by Dr. Jeffrey Caufield. It's over 900 pages long, and it's very well researched.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thanks Paul,

To be specific...

I believe that the Walker shooting was orchestrated by the CIA at the behest of the Whitehouse on grounds of national security. This operation also involved organized crime as did the attempts against Castro. Oswald and Ruby, although I do not believe they knew each other personally, were co-conspirators in the attempt on Walker. Under these circumstances Oswald lent himself to blackmail by the mob, and was forced to participate in the president's assassination, (although I do not believe he fired the fatal shot). Ruby, for the same reason, was then blackmailed into silencing Oswald. Robert Kennedy, who had helped initiate the action against Walker was silenced. The CIA then withheld, and is still withholding, evidence that could prove such an operation existed. I may be wrong, but to my knowledge no one, (other than Walker himself), has ever seriously considered such a correlation between these two events.

Regards,

Craig C.

Craig:

1. Do you have any specific evidence which shows that anybody at the CIA cared one whit about Edwin Walker?

2. IF the CIA was responsible and IF Walker had been killed, what, exactly, would have been accomplished that would benefit the CIA?

[Craig Carvalho]

Ernie,

What I am asserting is that the Kennedy administration saw Walker as a serious threat to national security. The CIA was merely the tool chosen to eliminate that threat.

Regards,

Craig C.

P.S. John McCone had not only been appointed Allen Dulles' replacement as director of the CIA by JFK, but was also a friend and ally of the Kennedy family.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Craig Carvalho

[Ernie Lazar]

Ernie,

What I am asserting is that the Kennedy administration saw Walker as a serious threat to national security. The CIA was merely the tool chosen to eliminate that threat.

Regards,

Craig C.

P.S. John McCone had not only been appointed Allen Dulles' replacement as director of the CIA by JFK, but was also a friend and ally of the Kennedy family.

Craig:

1. In what specific ways did the Kennedy Administration view Walker as "a serious threat to national security"? Do you have any specific quotations from Administration figures which supports that assertion?

2. When you say "threat to national security" -- please be as specific as possible.

How could ANY private citizen threaten national security -- much less someone who had no significant support within American society? [Keep in mind that when Walker sought to become Governor of Texas, he placed last in a field of 6 candidates---so, obviously, the people who knew Walker best did not think he was qualified to occupy any responsible position within government.]

Edited November 6, 2015 by Ernie Lazar

[Paul Trejo]

Thanks Paul,

To be specific...

I believe that the Walker shooting was orchestrated by the CIA at the behest of the Whitehouse on grounds of national security. This operation also involved organized crime as did the attempts against Castro. Oswald and Ruby, although I do not believe they knew each other personally, were co-conspirators in the attempt on Walker. Under these circumstances Oswald lent himself to blackmail by the mob, and was forced to participate in the president's assassination, (although I do not believe he fired the fatal shot). Ruby, for the same reason, was then blackmailed into silencing Oswald. Robert Kennedy, who had helped initiate the action against Walker was silenced. The CIA then withheld, and is still withholding, evidence that could prove such an operation existed. I may be wrong, but to my knowledge no one, (other than Walker himself), has ever seriously considered such a correlation between these two events.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we2eucWXqjg]

Regards,

Craig C.

Craig, I used to think the CIA-did-it for years. For most of the 90's, actually. That's where the JFK literature led the reader.

I no longer believe that -- and my rationale is that he CIA-did-it theories never attained closure. After 40 years!

So I started looking at the alternative sources -- like Harry Dean, for example, who was the first to name General Walker as a suspect. Because the Walker papers were granted to the University of Texas, I was able to go through all 90 boxes in 2011-2012.

That's when I decided that General Walker has been overlooked for nearly a half-century.

Then there is the most recent JFK literature -- and Larry Hancock stands out -- but most important, IMHO, is the free eBook by Bill Simpich, namely, State Secret: Wire Tapping in Mexico City (2014).

What Bill SImpich did, very carefully, using FOIA released CIA documents, is demonstrate a Mole Hunt in the CIA that altered LHO's 201 File. The CIA didn't know who Impersonated LHO using the Cuban Consulate telephone calling the USSR Embassy telephone -- but they knew very well that it was an Inside Job. It was a MOLE. This was a major revelation.

This means, in my reading, that the few CIA Agents who supported the JFK murder were ROGUES, and not the CIA High-Command.

I realize that this wasn't BIll Simpich's own conclusion from the data, but I appreciate that he asked for alternative interpretations of the same data. My interpretation is simple and clear, IMHO. The CIA High-Command did not murder JFK -- they were surprised by the action.

Of course the Mafia was involved at some level -- but only at the level of money and investment. Carlos Marcello would give millions to kill RFK or JFK, but he himself could supply no hit men -- that was beyond his capability. So, he gave money to Civilians who promised to do this deed. No doubt.

But the MAIN connection of the CIA and Mafia that I see is quite different -- their MAIN thrust was to try to kill Fidel Castro. That was their OBSESSION.

It just so happened that some of the people obsessed with killing Fidel Castro were able to get close enough to JFK. But these weren't Cubans or Mafiosos -- on the contrary. They were Dallas natives -- and they didn't do it for money -- they did it for HONOR in their world.

This is why I put General Walker front and center. He led the Dallas Minutemen. Dallas Police officers and Sheriff Deputies were members of the Dallas Minutemen. Here is the GROUND CREW in Dallas.

Jim Garrison showed us the Ground Crew in New Orleans. Maybe they were in the crowd that day -- but the GROUND CREW in Dallas were Dallas natives -- I'm convinced.

We know that Howard Hunt, as a CIA Rogue, was involved -- he confessed -- but he admitted it was as a "bench warmer." He was a bag man. Not important. We are fairly sure that CIA Rogue David Morales was involved -- he sort of confessed; but his role would have been Advisor, because of his enormous experience in such matters.

No -- the actual shooters were Dallas natives, I would bet on it.

Oswald shot at Walker in April -- and Walker found out. That's what marked Oswald as the Patsy in November. In fact, for the rest of the Spring, Summer and Fall of 1963, the pals of Walker set-up Oswald in New Orleans.

I don't believe that Oswald fired any shots at all at JFK. But Oswald was naïve enough to deliver his rifle to his "friends" on that day, and they used it (along with all of that New Orleans material) to frame Oswald.

The CIA is withholding next to NOTHING about the JFK murder -- I'm convinced. The Lopez Report was the bulk of it. Instead, it's the FBI that is holding back the main secrets of the JFK murder. The FBI was the investigative body for the WC.

Finally, as for that video with Jack Ruby, who says, "people who did this will never let the truth come out, and are in very high places," everybody just projects whatever Group they want into that slot. Myself, I say that the Dallas Police Department comprised those "people in high places" for Jack Ruby.

This is why, IMHO, Jack Ruby told Earl Warren that he could talk freely *only* if he was no longer surrounded by the Dallas Police Department.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 7, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Andrej Stancak]

Thanks Paul,

To be specific...

I believe that the Walker shooting was orchestrated by the CIA at the behest of the Whitehouse on grounds of national security. This operation also involved organized crime as did the attempts against Castro. Oswald and Ruby, although I do not believe they knew each other personally, were co-conspirators in the attempt on Walker. Under these circumstances Oswald lent himself to blackmail by the mob, and was forced to participate in the president's assassination, (although I do not believe he fired the fatal shot). Ruby, for the same reason, was then blackmailed into silencing Oswald. Robert Kennedy, who had helped initiate the action against Walker was silenced. The CIA then withheld, and is still withholding, evidence that could prove such an operation existed. I may be wrong, but to my knowledge no one, (other than Walker himself), has ever seriously considered such a correlation between these two events.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we2eucWXqjg]

Regards,

Craig C.

Craig, I used to think the CIA-did-it for years. For most of the 90's, actually. That's where the JFK literature led the reader.

I no longer believe that -- and my rationale is that he CIA-did-it theories never attained closure. After 40 years!

So I started looking at the alternative sources -- like Harry Dean, for example, who was the first to name General Walker as a suspect. Because the Walker papers were granted to the University of Texas, I was able to go through all 90 boxes in 2011-2012.

That's when I decided that General Walker has been overlooked for nearly a half-century.

Then there is the most recent JFK literature -- and Larry Hancock stands out -- but most important, IMHO, is the free eBook by Bill Simpich, namely, State Secret: Wire Tapping in Mexico City (2014).

What Bill SImpich did, very carefully, using FOIA released CIA documents, is demonstrate a Mole Hunt in the CIA that altered LHO's 201 File. The CIA didn't know who Impersonated LHO using the Cuban Consulate telephone calling the USSR Embassy telephone -- but they knew very well that it was an Inside Job. It was a MOLE. This was a major revelation.

This means, in my reading, that the few CIA Agents who supported the JFK murder were ROGUES, and not the CIA High-Command.

I realize that this wasn't BIll Simpich's own conclusion from the data, but I appreciate that he asked for alternative interpretations of the same data. My interpretation is simple and clear, IMHO. The CIA High-Command did not murder JFK -- they were surprised by the action.

Of course the Mafia was involved at some level -- but only at the level of money and investment. Carlos Marcello would give millions to kill RFK or JFK, but he himself could supply no hit men -- that was beyond his capability. So, he gave money to Civilians who promised to do this deed. No doubt.

But the MAIN connection of the CIA and Mafia that I see is quite different -- their MAIN thrust was to try to kill Fidel Castro. That was their OBSESSION.

It just so happened that some of the people obsessed with killing Fidel Castro were able to get close enough to JFK. But these weren't Cubans or Mafiosos -- on the contrary. They were Dallas natives -- and they didn't do it for money -- they did it for HONOR in their world.

This is why I put General Walker front and center. He led the Dallas Minutemen. Dallas Police officers and Sheriff Deputies were members of the Dallas Minutemen. Here is the GROUND CREW in Dallas.

Jim Garrison showed us the Ground Crew in New Orleans. Maybe they were in the crowd that day -- but the GROUND CREW in Dallas were Dallas natives -- I'm convinced.

We know that Howard Hunt, as a CIA Rogue, was involved -- he confessed -- but he admitted it was as a "bench warmer." He was a bag man. Not important. We are fairly sure that CIA Rogue David Morales was involved -- he sort of confessed; but his role would have been Advisor, because of his enormous experience in such matters.

No -- the actual shooters were Dallas natives, I would bet on it.

Oswald shot at Walker in April -- and Walker found out. That's what marked Oswald as the Patsy in November. In fact, for the rest of the Spring, Summer and Fall of 1963, the pals of Walker set-up Oswald in New Orleans.

I don't believe that Oswald fired any shots at all at JFK. But Oswald was naïve enough to deliver his rifle to his "friends" on that day, and they used it (along with all of that New Orleans material) to frame Oswald.

The CIA is withholding next to NOTHING about the JFK murder -- I'm convinced. The Lopez Report was the bulk of it. Instead, it's the FBI that is holding back the main secrets of the JFK murder. The FBI was the investigative body for the WC.

Finally, as for that video with Jack Ruby, who says, "people who did this will never let the truth come out, and are in very high places," everybody just projects whatever Group they want into that slot. Myself, I say that the Dallas Police Department comprised those "people in high places" for Jack Ruby.

This is why, IMHO, Jack Ruby told Earl Warren that he could talk freely *only* if he was no longer surrounded by the Dallas Police Department.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Dear Paul,

would you be so kind to elaborate on this part of your message, if possible:

"... Dallas Police officers and Sheriff Deputies were members of the Dallas Minutemen. Here is the GROUND CREW in Dallas."

I know from Ed Butler's statements that about half of DPD were members of KKK. However, I found not evidence of associations of DPD officers with Minutemen. Would you also know some names of DPD officers who were Minuteman and/or KKK?

Thanks

Andrej

[Paul Trejo]

Dear Paul,

would you be so kind to elaborate on this part of your message, if possible:

"... Dallas Police officers and Sheriff Deputies were members of the Dallas Minutemen. Here is the GROUND CREW in Dallas."

I know from Ed Butler's statements that about half of DPD were members of KKK. However, I found not evidence of associations of DPD officers with Minutemen. Would you also know some names of DPD officers who were Minuteman and/or KKK?

Thanks

Andrej

It's a great question, Andrej, and I'm still looking for those membership lists myself.

My main source for my opinion on the affiliations of DPD officers comes from the 1971 book by William W. Turner, namely, Power on the Right. Turner is a former FBI agent, and he offers his experienced account of the right-wing in the USA during 1950's and 1960's, and offers a special focus on the Dallas and the JFK assassination.

Turner says, in effect, that it wasn't possible to be accepted as an officer in the DPD unless the candidate was a member of at least one right-wing organization -- the KKK, the White Citizens Council, the JBS or the Minutemen -- and if the candidate was a member of more than one, he had a much better chance of employment.

In 1963, says Turner, there wasn't a single Black American in the DPD. Dallas was a Southern hold-out, and proud of it.

But no, the Minutemen rarely printed their membership lists. When some Minutemen turned to bank robbery, and the FBI went after them, they were glad they had made the choice to be a secret organization.

Also, except for the Grand Wizards and other high officials in the KKK, the KKK membership lists were never made public.

The only way to know whether a given DPD officer was a member of the KKK, JBS, WCC or Minutemen would be from his children and relatives, who are still alive today and would be willing to talk. A researcher who actually lives in Dallas has the best chance of getting this historical data.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 7, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

Dear Paul,

would you be so kind to elaborate on this part of your message, if possible:

"... Dallas Police officers and Sheriff Deputies were members of the Dallas Minutemen. Here is the GROUND CREW in Dallas."

I know from Ed Butler's statements that about half of DPD were members of KKK. However, I found not evidence of associations of DPD officers with Minutemen. Would you also know some names of DPD officers who were Minuteman and/or KKK?

Thanks

Andrej

It's a great question, Andrej, and I'm still looking for those membership lists myself.

My main source for my opinion on the affiliations of DPD officers comes from the 1971 book by William W. Turner, namely, Power on the Right. Turner is a former FBI agent, and he offers his experienced account of the right-wing in the USA during 1950's and 1960's, and offers a special focus on the Dallas and the JFK assassination.

Turner says, in effect, that it wasn't possible to be accepted as an officer in the DPD unless the candidate was a member of at least one right-wing organization -- the KKK, the White Citizens Council, the JBS or the Minutemen -- and if the candidate was a member of more than one, he had a much better chance of employment.

In 1963, says Turner, there wasn't a single Black American in the DPD. Dallas was a Southern hold-out, and proud of it.

But no, the Minutemen rarely printed their membership lists. When some Minutemen turned to bank robbery, and the FBI went after them, they were glad they had made the choice to be a secret organization.

Also, except for the Grand Wizards and other high officials in the KKK, the KKK membership lists were never made public.

The only way to know whether a given DPD officer was a member of the KKK, JBS, WCC or Minutemen would be from his children and relatives, who are still alive today and would be willing to talk. A researcher who actually lives in Dallas has the best chance of getting this historical data.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

The problem one confronts when evaluating information provided by any former FBI Special Agent is determining whether or not that Agent ever had access to the type of information (and cases) which they claim to be knowledgeable about.

William Turner was a Special Agent with the FBI from February 1951 until July 1961. In December 1960 he was censured and placed on probation then suspended without pay in June 1961.

Turner never worked on any cases involving the Minutemen organization nor was he ever assigned to the Dallas field office so he has no clue regarding the number of MM members nationally or in Texas. Incidentally, the FBI-Dallas field office file on the MM is almost 5000 pages.

The FBI obtained MM membership lists from three different sources at three different times. The Bureau also received information from former MM members. For example:

Victor Dale Horsfall, (a member of the MM who was with DePugh in the MM underground) had access to MM records. Horsfall advised the FBI in December 1969, that the actual membership strength was greatly exaggerated by DePugh and the true membership was probably unknown to DePugh. Horsfall stated about 150 people were sent MM literature on a regular basis and, therefore, he believed this to be the maximum membership. [HQ 73-17771, #2, which is 6/24/74 Los Angeles field report to HQ; section 1, page 16]

The information which the FBI obtained from several different intelligence sources was pretty consistent. Like every other organization, one has to define what "member" means.

• Does "member" only mean somebody who pays dues regularly and perhaps is given a specific identification number?
• Does "member" only mean persons who actively and regularly participate in organizational activities?
• Does "member" include somebody who adopts the ideology of the organization and perhaps occasionally contributes money or supplies but who never formally "joins" the organization?
• Should "membership" include elderly persons who may subscribe to the organization's newsletter but who has no other involvement?
• Should "membership" include the names of persons who expressed interest in joining but who never completed their application process OR they completed the process but rarely attend meetings?

ALL of these types of questions must first be answered before arriving at a rational and relevant understanding of the number of "members" of ANY organization.

With that background in mind, the best available evidence is that the total actual membership in the MM never exceeded 1500-2000 people. But the "activist" core membership (for lack of a better description, the "fanatics") were only about 100-150.

[Andrej Stancak]

Dear Paul,

would you be so kind to elaborate on this part of your message, if possible:

"... Dallas Police officers and Sheriff Deputies were members of the Dallas Minutemen. Here is the GROUND CREW in Dallas."

I know from Ed Butler's statements that about half of DPD were members of KKK. However, I found not evidence of associations of DPD officers with Minutemen. Would you also know some names of DPD officers who were Minuteman and/or KKK?

Thanks

Andrej

It's a great question, Andrej, and I'm still looking for those membership lists myself.

My main source for my opinion on the affiliations of DPD officers comes from the 1971 book by William W. Turner, namely, Power on the Right. Turner is a former FBI agent, and he offers his experienced account of the right-wing in the USA during 1950's and 1960's, and offers a special focus on the Dallas and the JFK assassination.

Turner says, in effect, that it wasn't possible to be accepted as an officer in the DPD unless the candidate was a member of at least one right-wing organization -- the KKK, the White Citizens Council, the JBS or the Minutemen -- and if the candidate was a member of more than one, he had a much better chance of employment.

In 1963, says Turner, there wasn't a single Black American in the DPD. Dallas was a Southern hold-out, and proud of it.

But no, the Minutemen rarely printed their membership lists. When some Minutemen turned to bank robbery, and the FBI went after them, they were glad they had made the choice to be a secret organization.

Also, except for the Grand Wizards and other high officials in the KKK, the KKK membership lists were never made public.

The only way to know whether a given DPD officer was a member of the KKK, JBS, WCC or Minutemen would be from his children and relatives, who are still alive today and would be willing to talk. A researcher who actually lives in Dallas has the best chance of getting this historical data.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thanks, Paul, I appreciate yout informed response. I will try to get Turner's book.

Kind regards

Andrej

[James DiEugenio]

Mr. Root began this thread with the following piece of evidence:

From Epstein: The "Neutron Activation Analysis done in 1977 (by the HSCA) exactly matched the metallic elements found in the bullet that was recovered in Walker's home to the batch of Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition used in Oswald's rifle in the assassination of Kennedy.... the House Select Committee employed a very advanced form of neutron activation analysis to match the recovered bullet and fragments to the ammunition used in the Mannlicher Carcano.

Does everyone recognize the absurdity of this Epstein statement today?

​But even several years ago, like in 2006-07, the whole viability of the NAA was under severe attack.

​Around that time, maybe earlier, I attended a seminar held by Gary Aguilar in the Bay area. He had both Rick Randich and Pat Grant there. The former is a metallurgist and the latter is a statistician. Along with the Spiegelman/Tobin team, they would eventually demolish this NAA pseudo science to the point that the FBI would never use it again since it risked having agents sent to prison for perjury. And even Blakey , who Epstein uses above, later called it junk science.

​But on that day, Randich listed all the trace elements detectable in the fragments in evidence. I, and others, were utterly startled by the difference in the amounts of trace elements--when they are all listed, not cherry picked-- between the fragments. But the one that was clearly off the charts was the reading for the Walker bullet. Simply a non starter.

It was so off that I asked Randich the following question: You are saying that theoretically all of these could have come from the same batch? (This referred to points he made about the actual smelting and crystallizing process .)

He said, they could.

​I said, what is the science behind this then?

He said, you're talking to the choir.

Epstein was full of crap when he said this.

Edited November 7, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Trejo]

Mr. Root began this thread with the following piece of evidence:

From Epstein: The "Neutron Activation Analysis done in 1977 (by the HSCA) exactly matched the metallic elements found in the bullet that was recovered in Walker's home to the batch of Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition used in Oswald's rifle in the assassination of Kennedy.... the House Select Committee employed a very advanced form of neutron activation analysis to match the recovered bullet and fragments to the ammunition used in the Mannlicher Carcano.

Does everyone recognize the absurdity of this Epstein statement today?

​But even several years ago, like in 2006-07, the whole viability of the NAA was under severe attack.

​Around that time, maybe earlier, I attended a seminar held by Gary Aguilar in the Bay area. He had both Rick Randich and Pat Grant there. The former is a metallurgist and the latter is a statistician. Along with the Spiegelman/Tobin team, they would eventually demolish this NAA pseudo science to the point that the FBI would never use it again since it risked having agents sent to prison for perjury. And even Blakey , who Epstein uses above, later called it junk science.

​But on that day, Randich listed all the trace elements detectable in the fragments in evidence. I, and others, were utterly startled by the difference in the amounts of trace elements--when they are all listed, not cherry picked-- between the fragments. But the one that was clearly off the charts was the reading for the Walker bullet. Simply a non starter.

It was so off that I asked Randich the following question: You are saying that theoretically all of these could have come from the same batch? (This referred to points he made about the actual smelting and crystallizing process .)

He said, they could.

​I said, what is the science behind this then?

He said, you're talking to the choir.

Epstein was full of crap when he said this.

Granted that the ballistics evidence in the Walker case is virtually non-existent because the bullet was mangled beyond identification, yet the history that LHO shot at General Walker has far more evidence than this -- if one actually respects the evidence.

There is the "Walker Note." There are the Backyard Photographs. There is the Walker house photograph. There is the testimony of George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt.

But more than this, there is the testimony of Marina Oswald herself. Granted, LHO lied to her when he told her that he worked alone, that he was on foot and bus, and that he buried his rifle. All of that is nonsense -- but that came from LHO. Marina merely reported it.

The key is that LHO admitted to Marina that he shot at Walker.

Furthermore, Walker himself told Helmet Muench of the Deutsche Nationalzeitung on the early morning of 11/23/1963 that LHO had been his shooter. Later in 1975, General Walker told Senator Frank Church that he had known LHO had been his shooter since April of 1963. Here's the evidence: http://www.pet880.com/images/19750623_EAW_to_Frank_Church.pdf

So, we don't really need Harold Weisberg anymore -- we have plenty of real evidence to work with. That is, for those who respect real evidence.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 7, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Craig Carvalho]

Thanks Paul,

To be specific...

I believe that the Walker shooting was orchestrated by the CIA at the behest of the Whitehouse on grounds of national security. This operation also involved organized crime as did the attempts against Castro. Oswald and Ruby, although I do not believe they knew each other personally, were co-conspirators in the attempt on Walker. Under these circumstances Oswald lent himself to blackmail by the mob, and was forced to participate in the president's assassination, (although I do not believe he fired the fatal shot). Ruby, for the same reason, was then blackmailed into silencing Oswald. Robert Kennedy, who had helped initiate the action against Walker was silenced. The CIA then withheld, and is still withholding, evidence that could prove such an operation existed. I may be wrong, but to my knowledge no one, (other than Walker himself), has ever seriously considered such a correlation between these two events.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we2eucWXqjg]

Regards,

Craig C.

Craig, I used to think the CIA-did-it for years. For most of the 90's, actually. That's where the JFK literature led the reader.

I no longer believe that -- and my rationale is that he CIA-did-it theories never attained closure. After 40 years!

So I started looking at the alternative sources -- like Harry Dean, for example, who was the first to name General Walker as a suspect. Because the Walker papers were granted to the University of Texas, I was able to go through all 90 boxes in 2011-2012.

That's when I decided that General Walker has been overlooked for nearly a half-century.

Then there is the most recent JFK literature -- and Larry Hancock stands out -- but most important, IMHO, is the free eBook by Bill Simpich, namely, State Secret: Wire Tapping in Mexico City (2014).

What Bill SImpich did, very carefully, using FOIA released CIA documents, is demonstrate a Mole Hunt in the CIA that altered LHO's 201 File. The CIA didn't know who Impersonated LHO using the Cuban Consulate telephone calling the USSR Embassy telephone -- but they knew very well that it was an Inside Job. It was a MOLE. This was a major revelation.

This means, in my reading, that the few CIA Agents who supported the JFK murder were ROGUES, and not the CIA High-Command.

I realize that this wasn't BIll Simpich's own conclusion from the data, but I appreciate that he asked for alternative interpretations of the same data. My interpretation is simple and clear, IMHO. The CIA High-Command did not murder JFK -- they were surprised by the action.

Of course the Mafia was involved at some level -- but only at the level of money and investment. Carlos Marcello would give millions to kill RFK or JFK, but he himself could supply no hit men -- that was beyond his capability. So, he gave money to Civilians who promised to do this deed. No doubt.

But the MAIN connection of the CIA and Mafia that I see is quite different -- their MAIN thrust was to try to kill Fidel Castro. That was their OBSESSION.

It just so happened that some of the people obsessed with killing Fidel Castro were able to get close enough to JFK. But these weren't Cubans or Mafiosos -- on the contrary. They were Dallas natives -- and they didn't do it for money -- they did it for HONOR in their world.

This is why I put General Walker front and center. He led the Dallas Minutemen. Dallas Police officers and Sheriff Deputies were members of the Dallas Minutemen. Here is the GROUND CREW in Dallas.

Jim Garrison showed us the Ground Crew in New Orleans. Maybe they were in the crowd that day -- but the GROUND CREW in Dallas were Dallas natives -- I'm convinced.

We know that Howard Hunt, as a CIA Rogue, was involved -- he confessed -- but he admitted it was as a "bench warmer." He was a bag man. Not important. We are fairly sure that CIA Rogue David Morales was involved -- he sort of confessed; but his role would have been Advisor, because of his enormous experience in such matters.

No -- the actual shooters were Dallas natives, I would bet on it.

Oswald shot at Walker in April -- and Walker found out. That's what marked Oswald as the Patsy in November. In fact, for the rest of the Spring, Summer and Fall of 1963, the pals of Walker set-up Oswald in New Orleans.

I don't believe that Oswald fired any shots at all at JFK. But Oswald was naïve enough to deliver his rifle to his "friends" on that day, and they used it (along with all of that New Orleans material) to frame Oswald.

The CIA is withholding next to NOTHING about the JFK murder -- I'm convinced. The Lopez Report was the bulk of it. Instead, it's the FBI that is holding back the main secrets of the JFK murder. The FBI was the investigative body for the WC.

Finally, as for that video with Jack Ruby, who says, "people who did this will never let the truth come out, and are in very high places," everybody just projects whatever Group they want into that slot. Myself, I say that the Dallas Police Department comprised those "people in high places" for Jack Ruby.

This is why, IMHO, Jack Ruby told Earl Warren that he could talk freely *only* if he was no longer surrounded by the Dallas Police Department.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

I'm not quite sure who beat who to the punch, (Simpich or Newman), but I have read John Newman's book, Oswald and the CIA. Mr. Newman comes to the same conclusion... that there was a mole hunt under way within the CIA, and that Oswald's alleged trip to Mexico City was a part of that effort. While Newman also affirms that someone impersonated Oswald during a phone call to the Soviet embassy, he does not discount the fact that Oswald was positively identified by consuls of both the Cuban and Soviet embassies as being the man they met with, (to include Sylvia Duran).

I for one have never been, nor am I now, of the mind that the CIA, (Langley), was part of the conspiracy to assassinate president Kennedy. To me Paul the only way to solve any murder is to look for motive. Who had the least to lose and the most to gain by assassinating president Kennedy?

Clearly, in view of the success of Attorney General Robert Kennedy's war on organized crime, the mafia had by far the strongest motive in organizing the conspiracy. Their very survival depended on it. With men like Johnny Roselli and Sam Giancanna deeply embedded within the CIA's operations to oust Fidel Castro, the mob had access to information that even few politicians had at that time, information that would have been critical in any conspiracy against the president, (including information of other covert action that may have centered on Walker... the key to initiating the cover-up). It is interesting to note that during the months and weeks leading up to the president's visit to Dallas, FBI SA James Hosty had been assigned to two specific individuals in the Dallas area, Lee Oswald and Edwin Walker. I often wonder, in light of the infamous "Oswald note", how close the FBI may have been to linking Oswald to the Walker shooting, (if they hadn't already).

As to organized crime's ability to carry out such a crime, one only needs to research their history here in America as well as their origins in Italy and Sicily. Assassination was their forte. It was very often how they rose to power and remained there. While their leaders may have lacked the sophistication we often associate with the cloak and dagger world of espionage, they far exceeded their CIA counterparts when it came to the idea of committing cold blooded murder. To people like Carlos Marcello this was considered part of the "cost of doing business".

Who may have pulled the trigger(s), matters little. While I believe Oswald was one of them, I also believe his main role was that of the "patsy", as was Ruby in many ways in the end. What often impedes our view of the overall picture in this case is distinguishing between the few who conspired to assassinate JFK, and the vast numbers of people and government agencies who participated in the cover-up that ensued.

More specifically, in response to your theory that Walker was at the center of this conspiracy, I must disagree. In reading all of Walker's Warren Commission testimony I personally found Walker to be cooperative and eager to find the whole truth about the president's assassination as well as the truth about the attempt on his own life. Walker's eagerness to connect Oswald to the attempt on his own life BEFORE Marina disclosed that she knew about her husband's involvement in the attempt on Walker, tells me that Walker was never concerned about being implicated in such a conspiracy. IMO, if Walker was guilty of having been part of the conspiracy he would have been an utter fool to make such inferences so soon after the fact. I believe he did this out of pure frustration over the fact that the Dallas police had done so little in investigating the attempt on his life. Indeed this is why he hired his own investigator. Simply put, if Walker had been the mastermind of the Kennedy assassination, I believe he would have remained absolutely silent, and let history run it's course.

While I certainly would agree that there were many people in many groups who would have lined up to be part of this conspiracy, I believe that one of the reasons the conspiracy succeeded was because it involved a relatively small number of individuals. At it's center I believe you had two individuals, Santos Trafficante Jr., (the only member of organized crime involved in the CIA plots against Castro to survive the HSCA investigation), and Carlos Marcello, (the man who AG RFK illegally deported to Guatemala). Both of these men made statements to FBI informants prior to the assassination that suggested they had knowledge of the impending assassination. As for the rest, take your pick.

Regards,

Craig C.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Craig Carvalho

[James DiEugenio]

Wow. I mean wow.

Newman and a molehunt?

http://www.ctka.net/reviews/newman.html

For the record, in John's excellent book, and in the reissue, he makes no note of that. Just read my review. John's book is a wonderful review of the file traffic about Oswald and the man who had most control of that traffic and files within the CIA, James Angleton, and what he did with those files. John makes a very strong case that it was Angleton who was the upper level control agent with Oswald.

The guy who came up with the whole molehunt idea was not Newman, and not SImpich. It was Peter Scott in an essay he wrote for Jerry Rose, which he called something like "The Search for Popov's Mole". I will be discussing this, along with some other aspects of Scott's work in my review of his new book, which isn't really a book. Its a collection of (mostly) previously published essays of his.

And the ballistics in the Walker case was not "virtually non existent", this has turned out to be a (partial) cover story. The reason for it being that is whatever that ballistics evidence was, it had no relation at all to Oswald. And as some researchers have noted, the Warren Commission knew this, namely that the bullet was the wrong color and caliber for the alleged rifle of Oswald, (which, of course, Oswald did not order.)

So Paul you were wrong about Craig. He is a Mob did it advocate. Trafficante and Marcello.

But keep on trying, I know you will. Anyone but the CIA.

Edited November 10, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Craig Carvalho]

Wow. I mean wow.

Newman and a molehunt?

For the record, in John's excellent book, and in the reissue, he makes no note of that.

Jim,

This is just one example of the mole-hunt mentioned in Newman's book. Perhaps I misunderstood it's implications.

Chapter Nineteen, The Smoking File, page 396, ...

According to the documents lists, the cables to and from the CIA station in Mexico City, as well as the CIA reports to the FBI and other government departments, were also placed in Oswald's 201 file...

One of the two documents lists contains an interesting note in the "Formerly Filed" column for the September 10 Hosty report. It states, "Copy CI/SIG [351 164] 100-300-11." The other documents list has a column with the heading "Location of Original" that has this entry: "CI/SI File 100-300-11." CI/SI was short for CI/SIG, and it appears that the mole-hunting unit was again connected with a key change in Oswald's CIA file designators...

... Thus it appears that it was Angleton's CI/SIG which, in conjunction with the Security Office, had all the pieces to the Oswald puzzle.

Regards,

Craig C.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Craig Carvalho

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

I'm not quite sure who beat who to the punch, (Simpich or Newman), but I have read John Newman's book, Oswald and the CIA. Mr. Newman comes to the same conclusion... that there was a mole hunt under way within the CIA, and that Oswald's alleged trip to Mexico City was a part of that effort. While Newman also affirms that someone impersonated Oswald during a phone call to the Soviet embassy, he does not discount the fact that Oswald was positively identified by consuls of both the Cuban and Soviet embassies as being the man they met with, (to include Sylvia Duran).

I for one have never been, nor am I now, of the mind that the CIA, (Langley), was part of the conspiracy to assassinate president Kennedy. To me Paul the only way to solve any murder is to look for motive. Who had the least to lose and the most to gain by assassinating president Kennedy?

<snip>

Regards,

Craig C.

Well, Craig, I think Bill Simpich's idea is significantly different from John Newman's idea. In my reading of Bill Simpich's 2014 free eBook, State Secret, he shows carefully, with recently FOIA released CIA documents, that a Mole-Hunt began on 2 October 1963, to find the Insider who clearly impersonated Oswald and Duran using a heavily tapped telephone between the Cuban Consulate and the USSR Embassy.

Newman does suspect a Mole Hunt, but he doesn't provide the full CIA documentation for it, which Simpich tracks for months after the event.

Simpich doesn't seriously challenge the evidence that Oswald was in Mexico City -- rather -- Simpich lays stress only on the Impersonation event of October 1st, when Oswald had already left Mexico City.

In retrospect, we can see clearly that the Impersonator of LHO in Mexico City was a CIA Agent, and this Impersonator deliberately tried to link the name of LHO with the name of Valerie Kostikov of the KGB. This was separate from LHO's own failed effort to get an Instant Visa to Cuba -- but it was still related although unknown to LHO.

In my theory, David Morales of the CIA was working closely with Guy Banister of NOLA, but behind the scenes. LHO wasn't aware of David Morales' work with Guy Banister. David Morales knew that Guy Banister was sheep-dipping LHO to be a Patsy in the JFK murder. But LHO only believed that he was part of a plot like "Operation Mongoose" to kill Fidel Castro.

It was well known that FPCC Directors got Instant Passage into Cuba through Mexico City. In my theory, Guy Banister convinced LHO that the Mexicans staffing the Cuban Consulate in Mexico City were stupid, and would believe anything they were told by an American. So, Guy Banister convinced LHO that if he took several newspaper clippings showing that LHO was a Director of the FPCC in New Orleans, that he would get into Cuba instantly.

LHO believed that. To that end, LHO worked with Ed Butler and Carlos Bringuier to fake being a fake Director of a fake FPCC in New Orleans. This included police reports of a bogus arrest, bogus news clippings of the arrest, radio show credits in a newspaper, and even a TV show credits in a newspaper. This would do it, Guy told LHO. And LHO worked throughout all of August to produce this RESUME that he took to Mexico City.

We have this RESUME that LHO took to Mexico City in the Lopez Report. So far, so good. But LHO didn't know that Guy Banister was fooling him. Guy Banister knew very well that LHO could never get to Cuba based on such a stupid RESUME. So, after three days of trying, LHO gave up and came back to the USA a failure. But for Guy Banister, the main work had been done. He had OFFICIAL records that LHO was an FPCC Director trying to get into Cuba.

Now comes the juicy part. David Morales then followed up with LHO's visit by performing the Impersonation. This would set off alarms in the CIA that LHO was trying to contact the assassinations agent for the KGB. Morales thought that he could get away with this. Morales didn't believe that this would start a Mole Hunt -- he believed that after JFK was killed, the CIA would have strong evidence that LHO was a Communist.

This was calculated to inspire the USA to invade Cuba and kill Fidel Castro -- which had been the goal of David Morales for years.

This is what Bill Simpich revealed -- and John Newman failed to reveal, in my reading.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 11, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[William O'Neil]

Ernie,

What I am asserting is that the Kennedy administration saw Walker as a serious threat to national security. The CIA was merely the tool chosen to eliminate that threat.

Regards,

Craig C.

P.S. John McCone had not only been appointed Allen Dulles' replacement as director of the CIA by JFK, but was also a friend and ally of the Kennedy family.

Craig, The CIA had as much love for JFK as Walker did.There would have been little motivation to collaborate in this regard and if it had happened, that secret would have been played to the hilt (Blackmail) by CIA. JFK would have been fully aware of that potential gambit, and not risked it.

Bill