Trying to Understand this Bronson Frame

[John Butler]

Trying to Understand this Bronson Frame

I have tried to identify all of the people in this frame as I could.  Those I couldn’t I put a numbered question mark and maybe someone who knows can identify those unknowns.  Putting all the names in the frame has over complicated the analysis of the photo frame so, please bear with that.

There are problems with this frame based on other photos, films, and witness statements.  I’ll start at the top of the scene.

Zapruders:  Zapruder and Sitzman are positioned where they are supposed be and doing what they are supposed to be doing.

Stemmons sign:  May be a little hard to identify but, it is where it is supposed to be.  The Umbrella Man and Latin Man may be out of position based on how you see Zapruder’s filming angle in the Zapruder film.

Hesters:  There is a real problem with identifying the Hesters as the people identified as the Hesters in this scene.  Jack White, long ago said this couple are the Hesters.  He was wrong.  According to their testimony they were positioned on the south side of Elm Street and then after the shooting moved to the north side of Elm Street to the Arcade seeking shelter.

Beatrice Hester said in an FBI statement of 11-25-63 said she was standing south side of Elm Street.

“…Mrs. HESTER advised she heard two loud noises which sounded like gunshots, and she saw president KENNEDY slump in the seat of the car he was riding in. Her husband then grabbed her and shoved her to the ground. Shortly thereafter they went across to the north side of the street on an embankment in an attempt to gain shelter...”

Charles Hester said much the same as his wife in a FBI statement of 11-25-63 about being on the south side of Elm Street.

“…HESTER stated he saw the President slump in the seat of the car and that he heard two shots fired drom what appeared to be a building located on the corner of Elm Street and Houston Street. He Stated he and his wife were almost in a direct line of the fire and he immediately grabbed his wife and shoved her to the ground. He stated hethereafter immediately escorted his wife across to the north side of the street on an embankment in an attempt to gain shelter... “

If this is true the people identified as Hesters are not the Hesters in this Bronson frame.  The situation worsens when you realize there is no one on the south side of Elm to identify as Hesters.  This is a sure sign of photo alteration and witness tampering.

Newmans and Chisms:  The next problem involves the identification of Bill and Gayle Newman and John and Faye Chism.  These two couples should be easy to identify in any photo or film.  The Newmans have two children with them and the Chisms have one.

That’s not the case in this Bronson frame.  The two couples that are supposedly the Newmans and the Chisms each have only one child.  Neither of the two women shown are holding a smaller child who would not be able to walk.  The people identified as Chisms has the woman holding a camera and taking a photo.  What happened to her camera and film?

Mannequin Row:  In the Zapruder film there are 19 people standing between the R L Thornton freeway sign and the Stemmons freeway sign.  Most of those 19 people are not shown in this Bronson frame.

Umbrella Man and Latin Man:  The problem here may not be a problem depending on how one sees that these two people are shown in the Zapruder film.

In Bronson this pair seems to be behind the Stemmons sign.  But, this may simply be camera angle differences.

Presidential Limousine:  The limousine is approaching the position where the first shot is about to happen or has already happened to some which is pretty much the official story.  This scene nullifies the statement of Bill Newman on 11-22-63 and the Hesters as already discussed.

Bill Newman said on 11-22-63:

“…Today at about 12:45 pm I was standing in a group of people on Elm Street near the west end of the concrete standard when the President's car turned left off Houston Street onto Elm Street…”

And,

“…Then the car sped away and everybody in that area had run upon [sic] top of that little mound. I thought the shot had come from the garden directly behind me, that it was on an elevation from where I was as I was right on the curb…”

These two statements put Bill Newman at the corner of the TSBD where the “concrete standard” is.  The “garden” behind Newman is the Pergola or Arcade as called by others.

Recognizable People:  On the south side of Elm Street is a recognizable people such as Mary Moormna, Jean Hill, Toni Foster, the Brehms, and the Babushka Lady.

Unrecognized People:  There are 9 people I put question marks on hoping someone can identify who they are.

The overall question is can this Bronson frame be considered real and trustworthy or altered and not trustworthy?  Is our interpretation of some the elements correct or not correct?

[Cory Santos]

Interesting.  A friend who was a military sniper once told me that when he/she looked at Dealey Plaza, it was possible to put a shooter in the trees and that with the right cover and camafloge  no one would notice the shooter.  Not saying that is what happened just sharing.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Cory Santos

[Joe Bauer]

 

Realized this post was totally out of context with the original thread.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Steve Thomas]

4 hours ago, John Butler said:

Trying to Understand this Bronson Frame

 

Unrecognized People:  There are 9 people I put question marks on hoping someone can identify who they are.

John,

 

I think one of the four men behind Toni Foster (#'s 4, 5, 6, and 7) is her husband, but I can't tell which one. She had come out from behind a wall and was running towards Elm St. She ran out ahead of him trying to get a glimpse of JFK, and then worried later that he might be in the line of fire.

http://jfklancer.com/pdf/toni.pdf

 

Steve Thomas

[Chris Bristow]

I think the Newman's 2nd child is standing next to Mrs Newman and is blocked by Moorman. Actually I think you can see the child just over the top of Moorman's head. Nix was a couple feet to the left of Bronson and his film reveals Newman's 2nd child to be right next to mrs Newman. Nix was shooting from 5 feet below Bronson's position(Bronson was standing on top of a pillar) so the child's head is not above Morrman's 
  Chism's 2nd child may be standing in front of her. It could also be the flag on the limo but that would allow for the 2nd child's image to be behind or mixed with the flag. 
 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Chris Bristow

[Chris Bristow]

I just did a line of sight for the Latin man. In Bronson he lines up with the Pergola and Bronson's position off Main St.. Match that position to the Z film and he lines up with the wall in the background very close to what we see in the Z film. I don't have any exact marker on the wall to pin it down, but within a foot or two it puts the Latin man just East of the sign and at the curb.

[Chris Davidson]

[John Butler]

Thanks Steve,

No. 4 is a black man.  Don't know whether her husband was black.  Maybe somebody else can help out on that.

Any idea who no. 1 and no. 2 are?

[John Butler]

Chris and Chris,

Good points using other films as references.

Chris Barstow-  I think the Chisms had 3 children but, only one with them that day.  I was really uncertain on the Umbrella Man and Latin Man's angles in Zapruder vs. Bronson.  Thanks for clearing that up.

Chris Davidson-  Good visual.  I assuming that is Nix.  Often times you see one thing in one film and not in another.  Your Newman children seem to be wearing the same clothing color, red.  I don't know whether they wore the same colors or not for clothes.  In Bronson their clothing color is different assuming the blob above Mary's head is a child in red.  In the Bronson frame there is a blob of something above Mary Moorman's head.  Aligning that with your visual says it should be a child with Gayle Newman.

Zapruder does not have the Newmans in the film and they should be there.  There is no reason for them not to be there.   It is my belief that the Newmans were by the SW corner of the TSBD where Bill first said he was.  That would make these frames and photos edited.  They simply got left out of the Zapruder film and it was too late to put them in it. 

What is you guy's opinion on the Hesters?  I believe they had plenty of time to cross the street and be in the Pergola area when Wiegman came by to film them.  My view of the motorcade was that it was stop and go between at least the first 3 segments of the caravan.  The Bronson frame is before or just when the assassination started as most folks think.  There is time to walk across the street before the Mayor's Car (second segment) and the Camera Cars (3rd segment) arrive before the Knoll. 

The people in the Bronson frame are not the Hesters even though Jack White identified them as such.  You have in the Bell film the Hesters sitting on the ground and that particular couple in the Bronson frame shows up in later frames at the same time as the Hesters in much the same area as the Bronson frame.

[Tony Krome]

10 hours ago, John Butler said:

 

Hesters:  There is a real problem with identifying the Hesters as the people identified as the Hesters in this scene.  Jack White, long ago said this couple are the Hesters.  He was wrong.  According to their testimony they were positioned on the south side of Elm Street and then after the shooting moved to the north side of Elm Street to the Arcade seeking shelter.

 

Here is a close up of of the two people that many researchers refer to as the "Hesters". Man in suit and tie sitting on bench, lady in green dress standing. The same two people can be seen on the Z pergola footage with Sitzman.

[John Butler]

Corey,

I call Dealey Plaza Murder Plaza.  There is a boatload of places one could hide and shoot from.  Shots could come from even outside the Plaza.  The ranges are short.

[Tony Krome]

edited to remove photo

Edited August 7, 2020 by Tony Krome
delete photo to free up space

[John Butler]

This frame from Bell should help.

[John Butler]

Tony,

That is a neat observation.  Do you think they are the Hesters.  I noticed you place Hesters in quotation marks.

[John Butler]

Joe, 

The last two paragraphs of your statement is dead on and well stated.