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Then went outside to watch the P. parade


Guest Bart Kamp

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10 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

You must be joking with this.

In both of those testimony excerpts, Holmes and Fritz are clearly referring to a time which was AFTER the assassination had taken place, not WHILE the shooting was occurring. That fact couldn't be clearer.

So, as I said yesterday (and it seems I was correct)....

"I don't know where you got the idea that the specific "Presidential Parade" statement shows up anywhere in the notes or reports of J.W. Fritz and Harry Holmes. As far as I know, neither Fritz nor Holmes said anything about LHO saying he watched the "P. Parade"."

From the Hosty/Bookhout report:

"Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building." [WCR, page 613]

From Captain Fritz' report:

"I asked him what part of the building he was in at the time the President was shot, and he said that he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor." [WCR; page 600]
 

David, you've completely missed the point of this new evidence. It shows that Oswald gave an alibi that placed him out front and the authorities suppressed it by not taking a Statement from him to that effect.

Any permutation you want to go with in deconstructing the WC testimony of Holmes or Fritz is not going to turn out well for you. Because both of them got caught up in their own lies and made statements that don't support the official story but do indicate that Oswald gave an alibi.

Holmes is being asked about when the police officer (Baker) detained Oswald and instead of placing it on the 2nd floor clearly says it was on the first floor at the front of the building.

Fritz is also being asked about the 2nd floor encounter and claims that Oswald 'saw the excitement' something it would have been impossible for him to do if he was in the 2nd floor lunch room.

And now we have Hosty confirming that Oswald said he was outside.

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3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Did not the notes of Will Fritz say that Oswald said he was out front with Shelly?

That could not have been after since Shelly was not out front at that time, right?  He and Lovelady said they ran across the street.

 

Jim,

The Darnell film shows Shelley to be absent from the TSBD steps at about 30 seconds after the shooting took place. Which is consistent with his first-day affidavit. Plus we know that he ran across the road to the concrete island (where he bumped into Gloria Calvery) before that 30 second mark. So we know he remained on the steps no longer than 25 seconds or so after the shooting, and maybe only a few seconds.

It seems, therefore, that it is possible that Oswald went out after the shooting and was near Shelley for a short period of time. Though he would have had to go out mere seconds after the shooting, otherwise he would have missed seeing Shelley.

 

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16 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

Be honest, for a change, and start acknowledging that the guy who is as closed-minded as he is deluded is Kamp !
YES, I have something to bring : logic and the truth.
Kamp brings nothing but nonsense and vanity.
So keep your comments to yourself !
 

Such manners. And from a Parisian too! I'm shocked. 

I haven't seen much of your work so far Francois but I don't see any evidence of logic and truth from you. Honestly, you make me nostalgic for the days of Paul May - at least he had a command of the details along with the rudeness. 

Let's get back to discussing Hosty's notes that say Oswald says he was out front watching the Presidential parade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Vanessa Loney said:

Such manners. And from a Parisian too! I'm shocked. 

I haven't seen much of your work so far Francois but I don't see any evidence of logic and truth from you. Honestly, you make me nostalgic for the days of Paul May - at least he had a command of the details along with the rudeness. 

Let's get back to discussing Hosty's notes that say Oswald says he was out front watching the Presidential parade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, sure.
You seem to live in a topsy-turvy world. It's time you woke up.
If you are indeed looking for logic and truth, let me give you a clue : that's nowhere to be found on the Kamp/Larsen side.
Unless, of course, you prefer to be biased. Which you look like...

Edited by François Carlier
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4 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

Yeah, sure.
You seem to live in a topsy-turvy world. It's time you woke up.
If you are indeed looking for logic and truth, let me give you a clue : that's nowhere to be found on the Kamp/Larsen side.
Unless, of course, you prefer to be biased. Which you look like...

You should be more humble.

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Quote :
The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.

[Greg Burnham Feb. 11 2018.]

If that quote is genuine, then I must say that Burnham is worthy of applause !!!!!

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10 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

Quote :
The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.

[Greg Burnham Feb. 11 2018.]

If that quote is genuine, then I must say that Burnham is worthy of applause !!!!!

It's sad that you have nothing better to contribute than attacks and personal insults.

You should be more humble.

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2 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Ochus Campbell said he saw Oswald in the locker room just inside the vestibule door, just after the shooting. How could he, if Oswald was upstairs?

That is a good point and actualy provides two corroborations. As well as Campbell's timely recollection, if Oswald moved from the Prayerman position very shortly after his view of the Presidents car was lost then he was 'in' the building when the President was shot.

 

On an irrelevant point, I thought the picture of Mr Carlier on his posts showed a microphone, but I think its actualy either a sausage or a dark ice-cream cone. I conclude this since a microphone is used when you have something to say and there is absolutely no evidence that is the case.

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I believe the LN's on this forum have run out of gas. It appears that they have nothing of value to contribute to our understanding of this particular case. It's little more than circular arguments and personal insults at this point, and it seems to have been this way for quite a while. It's grown tiresome, IMHO. I wouldn't be replying to the LN's in question or addressing the situation at all, but our LN friends are determined to continue to louse up the forum with their nonsense. It's a shame, because I'm sure it discourages other good, fair-minded folks from engaging in the conversation and contributing something of actual value.

It looks like this note is not proof that LHO was outside or on the first floor. It does seem to be proof that LHO's story of being on the lower floors was consistent, and that the authorities didn't want this consistent story to come to light. The LN's failure to understand this should be evidence that they don't really comprehend the evidence. It's okay to admit that. There's lots of evidence I don't comprehend, and hopefully I'll be the first one to admit that. Their refusal to admit that there could be evidence that they don't understand is why they should be more humble.

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1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

It's sad that you have nothing better to contribute than attacks and personal insults.

You should be more humble.

Oh, you mean that Greg Burnham, who is a well-known conspiracy advocate, has used "attacks and personal insults" on Bart Kamp, who is also a -- less known -- conspiracy advocate ?
That's not my fault.
Those are his words, not mine.
Can't you see that it is a quote ?
But it goes on to prove that not all conspiracy believers agree with Kamp. And those who don't (Greg Burham, Robert Groden, etc.) do indeed have harsh words, because they are of the opinion that Kamp's theories are nonsensical and harm the conspiracy cause.
Live with it.
Or try to use me as a scapegoat, if it makes you feel better. I don't mind.

Edited by François Carlier
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30 minutes ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

On an irrelevant point, I thought the picture of Mr Carlier on his posts showed a microphone, but I think its actualy either a sausage or a dark ice-cream cone.

Oh, OK, and soon Vanessa Loney will criticize my posts...

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44 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

Quote :
The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.


What is so "intellectually dishonest" about a hypothesis that says an unknown person on the TSBD steps might be Oswald? Anybody who thinks this way is intellectually warped if you ask me.

 

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1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

You should be more humble.

Well, actually, I am humble. Very humble. I defer to the conclusions of experts and witnesses and police officers who were there in the field to investigate the case.
I humbly say that I believe what those very able men told us about the events of November 1963.
But it takes a lot of arrogance and self-importance for Kamp to claim that he knows better than everybody. According to him, everybody is either a l-i-a-r or an accesssory after the fact, or a co-conspirator, or an idiot who is unable to see what he, Kamp, has discovered…
I, for one, am not accusing any of the investigators of being l-i-a-r-s.
Unlike Kamp, I do not pretend that I am so intelligent that I have been able to discover what nobody had discovered beforehand.
Unlike Kamp, I do not pretend to have proved something contrary to what everybody has believed for 55 years.
Unlike Kamp, I do not claim that a man who is inside a building is actually outside, and that those who disagree should be prevented from voicing their opinions.
And you're asking "me" to be humble ? What a joke !

Edited by François Carlier
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29 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

I humbly say that I believe what those very able men told us about the events of November 1963.


That's not being humble Francois, that's being gullible.

By your standards, you would not have believed that the U.S. government was involved in any of the following activities, had they not been exposed by critics like us:

  • The assassination of foreign leaders.
  • Coups carried out in foreign countries.
  • Experimentation of LSD on U.S. citizens without their knowledge or consent.
  • Experimentation of nuclear radiation on U.S. citizens without their knowledge or consent .
  • Plans for false-flag operations where innocent people, including U.S. citizens, would have been injured or killed.
  • The sale of hard drugs to children in order to support activities like those listed above.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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