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Then went outside to watch the P. parade


Guest Bart Kamp

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Apparently, on this forum (whose moderators are conspiracy believers) conspiracy theorists can insult those who disagree with them at will, They can mock whomever they want. They risk nothing. But if I post just a bit of humor, Mister Mark Knight feels the need to block the thread and then threatens me to expell me from the forum (so easy to brag through a computer screen !…).
OK.
I'm leaving.
For good.
I bet some people will be happy.
Good luck to everybody ! 
I wish you well !

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55 minutes ago, François Carlier said:

Apparently, on this forum (whose moderators are conspiracy believers) conspiracy theorists can insult those who disagree with them at will, They can mock whomever they want. They risk nothing. But if I post just a bit of humor, Mister Mark Knight feels the need to block the thread and then threatens me to expell me from the forum (so easy to brag through a computer screen !…).
OK.
I'm leaving.
For good.
I bet some people will be happy.
Good luck to everybody ! 
I wish you well !

Imo, Mark shows great restraint in taking restrictive actions among the forum members.

Perhaps posting something more constructive and less mocking would have been appropriate.

TSBD%20Steps.gif

 

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3 hours ago, François Carlier said:

Apparently, on this forum (whose moderators are conspiracy believers) conspiracy theorists can insult those who disagree with them at will, They can mock whomever they want. They risk nothing. But if I post just a bit of humor, Mister Mark Knight feels the need to block the thread and then threatens me to expell me from the forum (so easy to brag through a computer screen !…).
OK.
I'm leaving.
For good.
I bet some people will be happy.
Good luck to everybody ! 
I wish you well !

François:

no reasons for leaving. This is far the best JFK Forum with some great experts and writers on board, and outside is just misery. Your views are appreciated as they put real demands on people to answer. If it helps you, I have been already reprimanded by one of the moderators for recommending one past member to seek psychiatric help, and I had to apologise. The debates are sometimes heated and not every joke is good. Just take some rest and consider resuming when you feel like. Take care. 

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On 2/18/2019 at 11:31 AM, David Von Pein said:

I can agree with your points here. You make sense. (Except for the part about it probably being LHO.)

But my previous point was ---- there's no way we can TOTALLY ELIMINATE the possibility of PM being a "stranger".

Yes we can, what an absurd assumption, pure thread filler.

First of all CE1381, where the question was specifically asked and answered by 73 employees. 

If there were a stranger that deep into the TSBD crowd on the steps, others would make mention of that. And It all goes against human nature not to, and furthermore what stranger goes that far back near the entrance of a building to watch the parade. Show me another example, better yet show me several since it's so possible......

TOTALLY ELIMINATED!

Edited by Bart Kamp
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On 2/18/2019 at 12:14 PM, Tony Krome said:

What if the WC asked the FBI if everyone was accounted for on the steps. Did they need McCully to make up the numbers?

Quite possible with Judyth McCully but no others were asked to do this, afaik

Separately to consider

5-women-in-Darnell.jpg

In Darnell 5/6 ladies joined the others on the steps on the low easterly steps that were not there in Wiegman. Close attention shows you this is happening while Darnell filmed the steps in those 5 seconds

The numbers do not add up with statements made of who was where, it is more than likely the women that joined the rest on the steps come from the group that was standing along the road next to Truly and Campbell and are seen close-up in Wiegman at the second swerve and then went up those stairs.

Edited by Bart Kamp
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On 2/18/2019 at 11:31 AM, David Von Pein said:

I can agree with your points here. You make sense. (Except for the part about it probably being LHO.)

But my previous point was ---- there's no way we can TOTALLY ELIMINATE the possibility of PM being a "stranger".

But nobody saw a stranger on the steps, so, according to your logic,  if nobody said they saw Oswald on the steps, he couldn't have been there,   so it couldn't have been a stranger, David

Edited by Ray Mitcham
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20 hours ago, François Carlier said:

Apparently, on this forum (whose moderators are conspiracy believers) conspiracy theorists can insult those who disagree with them at will, They can mock whomever they want. They risk nothing. But if I post just a bit of humor, Mister Mark Knight feels the need to block the thread and then threatens me to expell me from the forum (so easy to brag through a computer screen !…).
OK.
I'm leaving.
For good.
I bet some people will be happy.
Good luck to everybody ! 
I wish you well !

Don't go Francois, You give us too many laughs.

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5 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

But nobody saw a stranger on the steps, so, according to your logic,  if nobody said they saw Oswald on the steps, he couldn't have been there,   so it couldn't have been a stranger, David

Interestingly enough, I'm not sure many even saw Baker go into the bldg. in the documentary record (please correct me if I'm wrong). I mean if they did, you don't see as many as you would think or assume stating it yet we know the man got into the bldg. and it was through the front doors on Elm. 

Edited by B. A. Copeland
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A "Went Outside To Watch P. Parade" Addendum....

JAMES P. HOSTY VS. THOMAS J. KELLEY....

Secret Service Inspector Thomas J. Kelley was present at Dallas City Hall for four of Lee Harvey Oswald's interrogation sessions that took place on the dates of November 23rd and 24th, 1963. Let's have a look at what Kelley had to say on the specific subject of whether or not Oswald "went outside to watch the Presidential parade" (this information can be found on Page 627 of the Warren Report )....

Excerpt-From-Report-Of-Thomas-Kelley.png

 

Edited by David Von Pein
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3 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

A "Went Outside To Watch P. Parade" Addendum....

JAMES P. HOSTY VS. THOMAS J. KELLEY....

Secret Service Inspector Thomas J. Kelley was present at Dallas City Hall for four of Lee Harvey Oswald's interrogation sessions that took place on the dates of November 23rd and 24th, 1963. Let's have a look at what Kelley had to say on the specific subject of whether or not Oswald "went outside to watch the Presidential parade" (this information can be found on Page 627 of the Warren Report )....

Excerpt-From-Report-Of-Thomas-Kelley.png

 

 


What Inspector Kelley wrote is true, and it doesn't negate what Hosty wrote in his notes. Because Oswald didn't go outside to watch the parade, he went out to see what the commotion was all about. (The parade had already passed!) We know this from Harry Holmes' WC testimony.

Holmes' testimony is pretty useless if you're trying to get from it an accurate sequence of events. He conflates Oswald's two exits into one and has Oswald going straight from the fifth floor to going out the front door to go home. (What, no lunch?) But one thing he's crystal clear about is the reason Oswald went outside:  The commotion.

 

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. .... he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs. .... Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."
     o
     o
     o

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?

Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.
     o
     o
     o

Mr. HOLMES. .... There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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In case anybody is interested, here's a sequence of Oswald's actions I've reconstructed from several testimonies:


Charles Givens saw Oswald working on the fifth floor at 11:30 AM. Givens asked Oswald if wanted to have lunch with him, and Oswald said yes, but that he couldn't go right then. As Givens took the elevator down, Oswald yelled to him to close the elevator gates so he could have it come back up. He would take the elevator down when he was finished there. [Givens, Holmes]

Oswald went to lunch at noon.  [Piper, Givens]

First he went to the second floor to get a coke, and then went down to the first-floor lunchroom where he ate lunch [Hosty] and read a newspaper.  [Givens]

Oswald didn't go out to watch the parade. [Kelley]

However, Oswald heard a commotion outside [Holmes], so he went out and stood with Bill Shelley and others on the TSBD steps to see what was happening.  [Holmes, Hosty, Fritz, Darnell]

Oswald learned of the shooting. Some time later he went back inside.

Occhus Campbell and others went inside and noticed Oswald in the storage room located near the front door.  [Campbell]

Later, Oswald came down the front stairway and tried to leave for the day, but was turned back by a police officer. Roy Truly said Oswald was an employee, and he was allowed to leave.  [Lovelady via Jarman, Holmes]

On his way out, news reporter Pierce Allman rushed inside and asked where the phone was. Oswald pointed to it. [Holmes, Pierce Allman]

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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Fact:

Thomas Kelley did not join any interrogations until Saturday morning as he did not arrive until the evening of the 22nd.

No way does this relate to the first interrogation of Oswald on Friday which was only attended by Fritz, Hosty, Bookhout, Boyd and Sims.

To draw a comparison like that is already a huge mistake.

Also that statement by Kelley is doubtful in any way and seems to be more of an attempt to make Oswald look like not watching the P parade at all while he actually did. As he claimed as told by Hosty and Fritz.

Doubtful how so?

Compare the following from Kelley, with Fritz's notes from that particular interrogation.

First-Interview-of-Lee-Harvey-Oswald-2-c

The passage on page 2 of Kelley's report: I asked him if he viewed the parade and he said he had not. I then asked him if he had shot the President and he said he had not. I asked him if he has shot governor Connally and he said he had not.” That very first bit is fictitious.

Let's have a look at the Fritz notes from that particular interrogation. Right at the very bottom

Will-Fritzs-Notes-from-Interrogation-of-

Fritz’s notes corroborate everything above except “I asked him if he viewed the parade and he said he had not.” Kelley’s report also confirms Fritz’s notes with regards to eating lunch in the Domino Room and the mention of ‘Junior’ Jarman and a short little Negro boy (which in all likelihood is Harold Norman). And furthermore Oswald’s lunch description coincides with Fritz’s notes as well

 

The majority of all this was already brought forward by Sean Murphy back in 2013. 

Von Pein knows this, but for some reason forgot to tell y'all.

Edited by Bart Kamp
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