“The lights all went out,” and the elevators stopped while JFK was murdered. Shelley and Lovelady were near the bottom of the back staircase, by the electrical panel... and Vickie Adams saw them ... until everyone's story changed...

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

On another issue, can you point to the post(s) that make you think Baker hesitated before entering the TSBD?

 

Jim,

Baker's intention wasn't even to enter the TSBD, at least not initially. For some reason he was headed toward the corner of Elm and Houston... not the TSBD entrance.

 

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Maybe, but it sure seems like a lot of work went into framing just “Oswald.”  All those appearances at the Sport Drome rifle range, sending a “Lee Harvey Oswald” to visit Robert McKeown to buy rifles to tie to Castro, the Statler-Hilton, Downtown Lincoln Mercury, that brown paper bag mailed to “Lee Oswald” at 601 West Nassau, and on and on. Most of that works best setting up LHO as the shooter.  Why ruin all that careful setup by risking the patsy being seen outdoors?  And since Fritz allegedly wrote that Harvey Oswald indicated he was outside during the very first interrogation, I’ve got to wonder if he hadn’t thought things out completely at that point and was improvising, but it is a good argument.

On another issue, can you point to the post(s) that make you think Baker hesitated before entering the TSBD?

Jim,

We agree that the primary patsy was "Oswald" and we agree that the conspirators framed him for the shooting and we agree that the police and the FBI were only to willing to along with the frame. But I think the primary concern for the conspirators was to get the sixth floor team out of the TSBD safely. The frame was imperfect - you and I agree that the Mannlicher-Carcano could not be traced in any legitimate way to "Oswald" and all of the evidence that it belonged to him was falsified. Furthermore, we agree that the rifle evidence - the money order, the order form to Klein's, the delivery to the post office box, the bag, etc. - was falsified after the assassination - and that is a key point!

That tells us that the frame up could have encompassed any number of "suspects" after the assassination. They wanted "Oswald" to be the fall guy, but they would have taken anybody as long as the team from the TSBD made it out safely. (Personally, I think Buell Frazier was damn lucky to have been released from the custody of the DPD late that night.) 

As far as the Baker/Truly/Brennan encounter outside the TSBD, but before Baker and Truly enter, see my posts on Bart Kamp's thread "Anatomy of a Second Floor Encounter" pages 17 and 18. 

Jim, the gist of it is that Roy Truly himself in April of 1964 told a reporter for the Odessa American newspaper that Truly and Baker talked to Brennan for a bit before entering the TSBD. When we add in Brennan's WC testimony, it is clear that Baker did not immediately run up the steps to the TSBD. In Brennan's own words, Baker was "standing still." Further, I argued that there are clear hints in Roy Truly's WC testimony about that very encounter.

[Tony Krome]

50 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

We agree that the primary patsy was "Oswald"

Do you believe the shot that caused Kennedy to clutch his throat area was one of entrance?

If so, why do you have the primary patsy behind him?

[Paul Bacon]

35 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Do you believe the shot that caused Kennedy to clutch his throat area was one of entrance?

If so, why do you have the primary patsy behind him?

It was imperative to the conspiracy that Kennedy be killed.  Necessary then, would have been shots coming from different directions --a triangulation.  The evidence for trajectories were slated to be manipulated at the autopsy (Walter Reed?) at Bethesda.  Yes, the throat shot was from the front.

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Jim,

We agree that the primary patsy was "Oswald" and we agree that the conspirators framed him for the shooting and we agree that the police and the FBI were only to willing to along with the frame. But I think the primary concern for the conspirators was to get the sixth floor team out of the TSBD safely. The frame was imperfect - you and I agree that the Mannlicher-Carcano could not be traced in any legitimate way to "Oswald" and all of the evidence that it belonged to him was falsified. Furthermore, we agree that the rifle evidence - the money order, the order form to Klein's, the delivery to the post office box, the bag, etc. - was falsified after the assassination - and that is a key point!

That tells us that the frame up could have encompassed any number of "suspects" after the assassination. They wanted "Oswald" to be the fall guy, but they would have taken anybody as long as the team from the TSBD made it out safely. (Personally, I think Buell Frazier was damn lucky to have been released from the custody of the DPD late that night.) 

As far as the Baker/Truly/Brennan encounter outside the TSBD, but before Baker and Truly enter, see my posts on Bart Kamp's thread "Anatomy of a Second Floor Encounter" pages 17 and 18. 

Jim, the gist of it is that Roy Truly himself in April of 1964 told a reporter for the Odessa American newspaper that Truly and Baker talked to Brennan for a bit before entering the TSBD. When we add in Brennan's WC testimony, it is clear that Baker did not immediately run up the steps to the TSBD. In Brennan's own words, Baker was "standing still." Further, I argued that there are clear hints in Roy Truly's WC testimony about that very encounter.

No, no, no!  Truly, like Shelley and Lovelady, realized that the observations of Vickie Adams and probably Sandra Styles were real problems, not only for the Warren Commission and the Official Story®, but for them personally!  You can see how the statements of all three men changed over time, gradually moving all of them into the TSBD later and later.  That’s what they needed to do to hide their probable involvement in all of this.

Where in Baker’s testimony does he say he spoke to anyone before Truly?  Where in Truly’s testimony does he say he had a conversation outside the Book Depository with Brennan.  Truly, Shelley, and Lovelady were all adding more and more time to their entry into the book depository.  Why?  So they can’t have been seen by Vickie Adams and probably Sandra Styles.

For that matter, where on earth is there any evidence that Buell Frazier  was framed for the assassination.  Was he in New Orleans posing as a commie?  Did he go to the Sports Drome rifle range.  This evidence was not created after the assassination.  Do you think otherwise?

Sorry for this hurried response.  I’ll have more time tomorrow morning.

[Tony Krome]

35 minutes ago, Paul Bacon said:

It was imperative to the conspiracy that Kennedy be killed.  Necessary then, would have been shots coming from different directions --a triangulation.  The evidence for trajectories were slated to be manipulated at the autopsy (Walter Reed?) at Bethesda.  Yes, the throat shot was from the front.

Are you suggesting the initial throat shot was part of a triangulated series of shots in that instant?

Or were the triangulated series of shots fired a few seconds later?

[Jim Hargrove]

A little more about what I hurriedly wrote above last night….

If it was remotely true that Baker paused outside the TSBD to talk with Brennan, the WC would have been ALL OVER IT!  The WC would have LOVED to give Baker/Truly more time to get to the freight elevators on the 1st floor because that would have given more time for “Lee Harvey Oswald” to climb down the stairs from the 6th floor “sniper’s nest” to the 2nd floor.  

The whole point of this thread is to show how stories changed over time, stories that were changed, in large part, to try to give the alleged assassin more time to get down unseen and unheard from the 6th floor.  Are people here STILL trying to find more time for the magic escape?

In his WC testimony, Baker said he ran from his bike straight into the Book Depository and bumped into Truly at the swinging door inside the building:

Mr. BAKER - You see, it looked to me like there were maybe 500 or 600 people in this area here.
Representative BOGGS -Yes.
Mr. BAKER - As those shots rang out, why they started running, you know, every direction, just trying to get back out of the way.
Mr. DULLES - For the record, by this area right here, you have that little peninsula between the Elm Street extension and the Building?
Mr. BAKER - That is right. This little street runs down in front of the building down here to the property of the railroad tracks and this is all a parkway.
Mr. DULLES - Yes. I just wanted to get it for the record.
Mr. BELIN - You then ran into the Building, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you see and what did you do as you ran into the building?
Mr. BAKER - As I entered this building, there was, it seems to me like there was outside doors and then there is a little lobby.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BAKER - And then there are some inner doors and another door you have to go through, a swinging door type.
As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered. And I asked, I just spoke out and asked where the stairs or elevator was, and this man, Mr. Truly, spoke up and says, it seems to me like he says, "I am a building manager. Follow me, officer, and I will show you." So we immediately went out through the second set of doors, and we ran into the swinging door.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Now, during the course of running into the swinging door, did you bump into the back of Mr. Truly?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BELIN - Then what happened?
Mr. BAKER - We finally backed up and got through that little swinging door there and we kind of all ran, not real fast but, you know, a good trot, to the back of the Building, I was following him.

In his 8/11/64 affidavit, Baker wrote…

2. On November 22, 1963, upon hearing shots I rode my motorcycle ISO to 269 feet, parked the motorcycle, and ran 45 feet to the Texas School Book Depository Building.
3. On March 20, 1964, counsel from the President’s Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy timed a re-enactment of my actions after hearing the shots on September 22, 1963. During this re-enactment, I reached the recessed door of the Texas School Book Depository Building fifteen seconds after the time of the simulated shot.

In Roy Truly’s lengthy WC testimony, he indicates that Baker ran straight into the building and makes no mention of a conversation with Brennan whatsoever.   In his first affidavit, Truly wrote in his own handwriting:

“I saw an officer break thru the crowd and go into our building.  I realized he did not know any thing about the build[ing], so I ran in with him.”  

There is nothing about talking to Brennan, or anyone else, in ANY of these statements by Truly and Baker.  Why not?  Pausing to talk to Brennan would have certainly given more time for an alleged assassin to climb down from the sixth floor to the 2nd floor.

Brennan does tell Belin that he talked to a cop who “had taken me to, I believe, Mr. Sorrels, an automobile sitting in front of the Texas Book Store.” Are we to believe that cop was Baker?  Really?

It would surely have taken time for Sorrels to park his car in front of the TSBD, and more time for Brennan and the cop to identify him and walk over to his parked car. The cop who accompanied Brennan to Sorrels was obviously NOT Baker.  Unless, of course, your object is to add more and more time to the arrival of Baker and Truly at the back staircase and elevators.

And that is exactly what’s happening here.  This whole revisionist argument strikes me as absurd and falling straight into the hands of WC apologists.  
 

[Paul Bacon]

13 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Are you suggesting the initial throat shot was part of a triangulated series of shots in that instant?

Or were the triangulated series of shots fired a few seconds later?

Tony, I'm a little unclear about what you're asking here.  Yes, I do believe the throat shot (remember, the aim was at the head) was part of a triangulated series of shots.  All these shots began when the limousine entered the kill zone --and the shots came from a number of different directions, including from behind.  I believe the conspirators were abundantly confident about showing only shots from behind at any  "autopsy".

[Paul Jolliffe]

14 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

No, no, no!  Truly, like Shelley and Lovelady, realized that the observations of Vickie Adams and probably Sandra Styles were real problems, not only for the Warren Commission and the Official Story®, but for them personally!  You can see how the statements of all three men changed over time, gradually moving all of them into the TSBD later and later.  That’s what they needed to do to hide their probable involvement in all of this.

Where in Baker’s testimony does he say he spoke to anyone before Truly?  Where in Truly’s testimony does he say he had a conversation outside the Book Depository with Brennan.  Truly, Shelley, and Lovelady were all adding more and more time to their entry into the book depository.  Why?  So they can’t have been seen by Vickie Adams and probably Sandra Styles.

For that matter, where on earth is there any evidence that Buell Frazier  was framed for the assassination.  Was he in New Orleans posing as a commie?  Did he go to the Sports Drome rifle range.  This evidence was not created after the assassination.  Do you think otherwise?

Sorry for this hurried response.  I’ll have more time tomorrow morning.

Jim,

As I have pointed out repeatedly in the last 48 hours, Roy Truly himself told the Odessa American Newspaper in April, 1964 that he, Marrion Baker and Charles Brennan all had a conversation outside the TSBD before entering the TSBD.

Truly was quoted as saying so right there in the article!

Brennan said in his own testimony that he had a conversation with an unnamed Dallas Police Officer, one who was standing precisely where Truly said - again, in the newspaper - that the conversation was between himself, Baker and Brennan!

I believe it is reasonable to conclude - Brennan so testified under oath - that there was a conversation between Brennan and a policeman outside the TSBD, and further - just as Truly admitted in print - that conversation was between Baker, Truly and Brennan. And, as I pointed out earlier, Truly testified under oath that there was a policeman right where Brennan said there was a policeman, right where Truly admitted in print that there was a policeman named Baker, and to where Baker appears to be running in the Couch film. (As others have noted for some time, Baker does not make a direct beeline for the steps, but rather is running past the steps in the final frames just before we lose sight of him. Note that I did not rely on the film evidence for Baker's pause (slim, but real) - instead, I relied on what Truly himself said!)

Now about my contention that the frame-up was after the fact:

Jim,  I think you misread what I wrote: I was making a very specific point about the rifle evidence - the link between "Oswald" and the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle later alleged to be his was created after the fact!

Of that, there can be no doubt!

The order form from Klein's was created after the fact!

The money order was created after the fact!

That rifle was never shipped to "Oswald's" post office box, neither he nor anyone else picked it up, and there is no evidence from before the assassination to show that "Oswald"s box had anything to do with it at all! - all that was created after the fact!

The bag in which the rifle was allegedly transported into the TSBD did not exist before 12:30 on 11/22/63, and it sure as hell was not created by "Oswald" - it was created after the fact!

The infamous palm print did not exist on 11/22/63 (who said so? the FBI, that's who!) - created after the fact!

The backyard photos linking "Oswald" to the Mannlicher-Carcano did not exist on the afternoon of 11/22/63 - created after the fact!

All of the rifle evidence that was later used to link "Oswald" to the Mannlicher-Carcano was created after the fact!

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe

[Paul Jolliffe]

16 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Do you believe the shot that caused Kennedy to clutch his throat area was one of entrance?

If so, why do you have the primary patsy behind him?

Good question, Tony. My answer is speculative, but I bet you and I agree on this: the most important consideration for the conspirators was to make sure that the president was dead, and if that meant firing from multiple locations, then so be it. The pre-selected patsy be damned - JFK had to be dead before the limo left Dealey Plaza.

A wounded - but not dead - JFK would have been in charge of all of the federal investigative machinery to catch all of the conspirators, and they would have been caught, tried and convicted. No, the only objective for the conspirators was to kill - not wound, not incapacitate, not scare, not maim, not intimidate - but to kill the president. 

Anything less was a total failure on their part. (Was this why there were printed rumors that Curtis LeMay's plane had crashed on 11/22/63? Part of a pre-planned cover had the assassination failed?)

So yes, I think it is probable that JFK's throat wound was one of entrance, but I am not 100% certain. Of course, thanks to the colossal failure to dissect the throat wound at the autopsy, none of us can be sure what that wound was. 

For what it's worth, it should be obvious that had the first shot hit and killed JFK just as the limo turned onto Elm, then none of the subsequent shots would have been necessary, including those from the front.

The Tina Towner film has unmistakable evidence that the president involuntarily ducked to his left, winced and pulled his right hand back sharply just as the limo was completing its turn onto Elm. That is precisely the time that multiple witnesses claimed that a shot missed the limo, and some even claimed to have seen the missed shot strike the pavement at that moment. (I think it is likely that shot came from the Dal-Tex, quite possibly from the third floor open window, partially obscured by the fire escape. But I am not certain.)

That spot, right in front of the TSBD, was the ideal location for a 6th floor patsy/sniper. 

So, yes, the conspirators wanted to frame "Oswald" for the crime.

But the most important objective, the only one that really mattered to them, the only one that allowed for their very survival, was to make sure JFK was dead on the spot.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 3/25/2019 at 1:02 PM, John Butler said:

Paul J.,

I didn't confuse Marys.  Mary Hollies was who I was talking about.  I have problems with her statements.  She is a quad-x or more familiarly a XXXX.  Either she lied during the era of the assassination or 48 years later.  My problem is I keep wanting to look further at some of the things she said and how much she was influenced by the 6th floor people.  As and example, she puts Bonnie Ray Williams on the 6th floor just moments before the assassination.  She has him coming down from the 6th floor by elevator and locking the elevator in place.  The question is if the 6th floor Museum had that great of an influence on what she said in 2011 then why would they allow her to burn the WC's star witness Bonnie Ray Williams.  I have problems with other things she said and why she may have said what she said in 1964.  I have a problem with there being no early statements by the Sheriff's Office or the FBI in November of 63.  Everybody at the TSBD was covered at the time.  They may be out there but, I haven't found any.

I don't want to argue with or try to refute what Jim Hargroves has said.  I am, or at least part of me, is in agreement.  Jim is a solid Kennedy researcher and a good person who doesn't mind saying what he thinks straight up.  What I want to do is suggest some alternatives that people can say yea or nay on their merits.

Paul B,

I think Harvey Oswald was outside the TSBD on Elm St. photographing the motorcade as it went by.  He had plenty of time to go back to the TSBD steps and be filmed as Prayer Man.  The object he has in his hands in not a coke but, an object about a foot in width.  I judge this to be a camera in a two handed camera mount.  That is what he went home for instead of curtain rods.  The John Martin film shows Prayer Man on Elm St. as the presidential limousine goes by.  That is the basis for my contention.  I might add most people don't agree and say that can't see Prayer Man there or his camera and it's camera flash.

John,

Maybe I missed it, but where did Mary Hollies claim that "Oswald" had approached her on a bus? What bus, when, and where? I assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that "Oswald's" bus encounter with a woman named "Mary" was limited to Mary Bledsoe, but if there is a statement from Mary Hollies somewhere that she, too, met "Oswald" on a bus and they conversed about communism (or whatever), then I'd like to read it.

Can you provide a link to Mary Hollies, "Oswald" and the bus?

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

As I have pointed out repeatedly in the last 48 hours, Roy Truly himself told the Odessa American Newspaper in April, 1964 that he, Marrion Baker and Charles Brennan all had a conversation outside the TSBD before entering the TSBD.

Truly was quoted as saying so right there in the article!

And Truly I say unto you, oh Paul, that Roy Truly was being untrue right there in the article!  Not under oath, he was trying to give additional time for “Lee Harvey Oswald” to climb down from the sixth floor to the second floor by stalling Baker and himself outside the building.  Shelley and Lovelady both did exactly the same thing, but only as their stories changed.  These stories ALL evolved over time.

Read Baker’s testimony. He says he ran right into the building. Read Truly’s testimony. He said, “I saw an officer break thru the crowd and go into our building. I realized he did not know any thing about the build[ing], so I ran in with him.”   

In his affidavit, Baker said it took him 15 seconds to reach “the recessed door of the Texas School Book Depository Building” from the time of the simulated shot in his re-enactment for the WC.  During that 15 seconds, he drove his bike to the curb near the front entrance, parked it, dismounted, and ran up to the building and ran inside.  How much of that 15 seconds was spent chatting with Brennan, identifying the Secret Service Agent parked on Elm, and leading Brennan to him?  The Brennan argument is absurd.

Brennan said a cop, some unnamed, unidentified cop, talked with him and led him to Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels, who had parked his car by the TSBD.  Do you seriously want us to believe Roy Truly, a leading suspect in this case, and his unsupported, unsworn statement to a newspaper?  It is nothing but a stall, an obvious attempt to give the accused assassin more time to climb down those stairs.  A Baker and Brennan and Sorrels encounter outside the TSBD never happened.  How could it have?
 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Jim Hargrove

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

John,

Maybe I missed it, but where did Mary Hollies claim that "Oswald" had approached her on a bus? What bus, when, and where? I assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that "Oswald's" bus encounter with a woman named "Mary" was limited to Mary Bledsoe, but if there is a statement from Mary Hollies somewhere that she, too, met "Oswald" on a bus and they conversed about communism (or whatever), then I'd like to read it.

Can you provide a link to Mary Hollies, "Oswald" and the bus?

Paul,

Mary Hollies made that statement in an interview at the 6th Floor Museum in Jan. 2011, that is 48 years later.  She said she rode the bus with an Oswald every morning.  He asked her out to communist meetings and strip bars.  He said he would take her Russia.

Some of the information provided is wild enough to suggest that Oswald was working her as an informant.  Most people dismiss this interview out of hand.  To a certain extant I do also.  But, I keep having nagging thoughts about some of the things she said.

Why would the 6th floor folks allow her to burn Bonnie Ray Williams who was a star witness for the FBI and the WC.  What she said puts him on the 6th floor moments before the assassination.  He then rides the elevator from the 6th floor to the 5th and locks the elevator to keep it from moving. 

Here is something I hadn't thought of at the time.  Who sent the elevator to the 6th floor for Bonnie Ray to ride down.  Did Bonnie Ray ride the elevator up with Oswald or was he already on the 6th floor?

She definitely makes Bonnie Ray a co-conspirator.  Why would the 6th Floor folks allow that if they had control of what she was saying?

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by John Butler

[Paul Jolliffe]

4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

And Truly I say unto you, oh Paul, that Roy Truly was being untrue right there in the article!  Not under oath, he was trying to give additional time for “Lee Harvey Oswald” to climb down from the sixth floor to the second floor by stalling Baker and himself outside the building.  Shelley and Lovelady both did exactly the same thing, but only as their stories changed.  These stories ALL evolved over time.

Read Baker’s testimony. He says he ran right into the building. Read Truly’s testimony. He said, “I saw an officer break thru the crowd and go into our building. I realized he did not know any thing about the build[ing], so I ran in with him.”   

In his affidavit, Baker said it took him 15 seconds to reach “the recessed door of the Texas School Book Depository Building” from the time of the simulated shot in his re-enactment for the WC.  During that 15 seconds, he drove his bike to the curb near the front entrance, parked it, dismounted, and ran up to the building and ran inside.  How much of that 15 seconds was spent chatting with Brennan, identifying the Secret Service Agent parked on Elm, and leading Brennan to him?  The Brennan argument is absurd.

Brennan said a cop, some unnamed, unidentified cop, talked with him and led him to Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels, who had parked his car by the TSBD.  Do you seriously want us to believe Roy Truly, a leading suspect in this case, and his unsupported, unsworn statement to a newspaper?  It is nothing but a stall, an obvious attempt to give the accused assassin more time to climb down those stairs.  A Baker and Brennan and Sorrels encounter outside the TSBD never happened.  How could it have?
 

Jim,

Fair enough - Truly may have lied to the reporter. 

Alternatively, once he was away from the spotlight of the Warren Commission and the need to "coordinate" stories, he may have let the truth slip out.

 

I think we both agree that Truly was a very slippery and suspicious character, and trying to parse out the truth from his conflicting statements is a difficult business. I think we both agree that because Truly set the dogs loose on "Oswald" so soon after (allegedly) vouching for him, Truly was a witting part of the conspiracy to frame "Oswald." 

Jim, I must also confess that part of my suspicion about the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter comes from a careful reading of Jesse Curry's book "Jesse Curry's JFK Assassination File" as he recounted the episode. Not once did Curry mention Baker by name! In a book filled with praise for various minor members of the Dallas Police Force, Jesse Curry downplayed, minimized and virtually ignored the remarkably brave and correct actions of the first DPD officer in the TSBD! (Allegedly.)

Why did Jesse Curry ignore Marrion Baker?

Why did Jesse Curry minimize the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter?

I am not making this up - it reads as if Jesse Curry himself gave no credence to the event, and wanted to distance himself from it as much as possible. That is what first raised my hackles - something was wrong with the "official" narrative, and Jesse Curry knew it.

I suppose I should do a separate thread on this. I may be one of the few here who not only owns a copy of Curry's book, but has actually read it in its entirety.

Jim, I completely respect your opinion on the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter, and therefore, the need to have Truly and Baker running up those stairs out front right away. You may be right, but I don't think the evidence is as persuasive as you apparently seem to believe. I believe there is room for doubt about the timing about that run, and perhaps that is where we should leave it for now.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe

[Jim Hargrove]

Actually, Paul, although I think Baker probably encountered the brown-shirted Oswald in the vestibule by the second floor lunchroom, I’m hardly 100 percent certain of that.  You and other researchers make some good contrary points.  

But we’re ALL 100 percent sure that the WC decided to put its one-and-only LHO by that lunchroom at that time, where Baker allegedly saw him and Truly allegedly vouched for him. And so, true or not, the alleged encounter put enormous pressure on certain witnesses to make the times possible.  And who felt that pressure more than the TSBD employees near the scene: Truly, Shelley, Lovelady, and those two gals on the stairs (although of the two only Vickie Adams testified).   All four of of the witnesses who testified changed their stories significantly, unless Vickie Adams was misrepresented to begin with.

The main theme of this thread was to show how everyone’s story changed.

We certainly agree about Truly.  One of my favorite examples of this was told by a fellow who is banned here, and on at least one other forum as well, and I’m not certain I should mention his name.  But he noted that it sure was funny that the unarmed Roy Truly charged up the stairs ahead of a gun-wielding cop ready to encounter what could only be assumed to be a heavily-armed potential assassin. 

What astounding courage!  Unless Truly knew more than he let on, and I do believe he did.