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“The lights all went out,” and the elevators stopped while JFK was murdered. Shelley and Lovelady were near the bottom of the back staircase, by the electrical panel... and Vickie Adams saw them ... until everyone's story changed...


Jim Hargrove

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What Bart says may explain why the WC classified Vickie Adams testimony as Top Secret.  The public wouldn't know or Vickie.  They could use that for their own internal justifications in framing Oswald and no one would known until it was too late.  And, later it could become a LN truth in stories.  Would it help cover what Shelley and Lovelady were doing after the assassination or during it.

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To Paul J – Thanks for your interesting note above.  Since you and John communicate frequently, you may have already sent this to him, but in case you haven’t, I’ll take the liberty of sending it his way.

To John B – Thanks for the “top secret” version of the Adams’ testimony!

To Bart K – Adams’ earliest statements seem to show that she encountered both Shelley and Lovelady at the bottom of the stairs.  After unending abuse, she eventually changed her story entirely.  So did Shelley and Lovelady.  The changing stories is one of the main points of John’s new write-up.

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The TSBD electrical wiring is complicated, and we only know part of it.

John said the building was built in the 1890s and originally wired for electricity in the 1920s.  In 1961 the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors were remodeled as offices and rewired, with the addition of air conditioning and the passenger elevator near the front of the building.  There were thus two different sets of wiring and two different electrical boxes.

From the comments by Geneva Hine, Vickie Adams and others it is clear that at least some of the electric power in the building was cut off, probably twice—once during the hit and again a few minutes later).  Depending on how the power was cut, the floors above the 4th floor may have continued to have power while the electricity to the elevators and offices was cut.  This is just a guess, but clearly power to large parts of the building was turned off during the assassination.

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21 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Ron, from page 105, The Girl On The Stairs.  "After the third shot I went out the back door... The elevator was not running and there was no one on the stairs.  I went down to the first floor.  I saw Mr. Shelly and another employee named Bill.  The freight elevator had not moved, and I still did not see anyone on the stairs.  I ran out the back door of the depository and around to the front.  I started down toward the railroad tracks when an officer stopped me and turned me back. … No one had surrounded the building at that time. I went back into the building and to the passenger elevator, But The Power Was Off.  I went to the back to the freight elevator.  There was two plainclothes men on it.  However, the power on it was also turned off.  I walked up the stairs to the fourth floor to my office."  

Ron, thanks. I obviously need to read more on this subject, as it sounds like there was something strange going on. 

 

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To John B: Thanks for the "Top Secret" graphic on Adams’ WC testimony. We have added it to the Escape from the Sixth Floor page.

To Ron B: Thanks also for the “power was off” quotes from The Girl on the Stairs.  John talked at length to author Barry Ernest and he is sending me the book.

To Paul J: John sent me a copy of his reply to your email. Do you want to discuss it here?

Recently added to Escape from the Sixth Floor:

The Warren Commission knew the electricity had been shut off minutes before the shooting and turned back on minutes after the shooting. This is not only very suspicious but suggestive of a conspiracy. The Commission had photographs of the electrical panels on the first floor and knew there were men nearby about one minute before and one minute after the shooting. Why was the Commission not interested in the identity of these two men, who were at the back of the TSBD near the electrical panels and near the only means of escape from the the 6th floor one minute after the shooting? Why did the Commission fail to ask Roy Truly if he knew either of these men? Because the Commission's assignment was to conclude that one man, Lee Harvey Oswald, shot and killed President Kennedy---with no accomplices.

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On 2/17/2019 at 2:45 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

The TSBD electrical wiring is complicated, and we only know part of it.

John said the building was built in the 1890s and originally wired for electricity in the 1920s.  In 1961 the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors were remodeled as offices and rewired, with the addition of air conditioning and the passenger elevator near the front of the building.  There were thus two different sets of wiring and two different electrical boxes.

From the comments by Geneva Hine, Vickie Adams and others it is clear that at least some of the electric power in the building was cut off, probably twice—once during the hit and again a few minutes later).  Depending on how the power was cut, the floors above the 4th floor may have continued to have power while the electricity to the elevators and offices was cut.  This is just a guess, but clearly power to large parts of the building was turned off during the assassination.

Jim,

I have to say that, after re-reading John's essay, I do think that the passenger elevator shaft escape route is likely. I always assumed that to access the top of the elevator shaft, one needed to be on the fifth floor, but that wasn't so. The shaft went to the fifth floor, and so anyone on the sixth floor could access it, merely by removing floor boards. See the TSBD floorplan below. Note the notation "(No opening to the elevator shaft on the fifth floor")  (Did the sixth floor "flooring crew" do work around the "sniper's nest window"?)

I also agree with John that neither Lovelady nor Shelley claimed on 11/22/63 in their respective affidavits to the DPD to have gone to the railroad yards immediately after the shooting. 

The key point about Victoria Adams' (was that she placed Shelley and Lovelady near the electrical boxes at a time when at least some of the power to the building was out. 

If conspirators used the passenger elevator to descend near the front steps, then is it possible that Truly's decision to take Baker to the back of the TSBD was partly to keep Baker from  bumping into real assassins near the front passenger elevator?  The two men on the sixth floor got out of that building somehow, and the passenger elevator shaft is not a bad  bet.

TSBD 5th floor.jpg

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Shortly after I joined the forum, coming up on two years ago, on another thread I brought up the possibility of the power being shut off to control use of the elevators shortly before, during and immediately after the assassination.  I'd thought about it some after reading The Girl On the Stairs. I saw a picture in the post of what I thought was the electrical control panel on the first floor, near the bathroom, stairs or domino room (I don't remember which).  Someone mentioned these were telephone control access panels.  I was new, embarrassed by my mistake and didn't pursue it.  If pictures of the electrical control panels are available, in relation to the freight elevators, I'd love to see them but don't know where to look or really have time to dig.

My thoughts were regarding Truly's claim that both freight elevators were stuck on the fifth floor.  That they wouldn't come down, he stuck his head in the shaft and called for someone to release them, that someone must have left the gates on them open (which prevented movement of them between floors).

Two people were observed in the sixth floor windows by multiple witnesses prior to the assassination.  They had to get out of the building quickly.  A couple of shots to distract from behind and above, observation of lower/other/ground shots.  Then run, to the elevator, get the hell out of dodge before anyone realized what happened.  Power to the elevators shut off prior to the assassination to restrict accidental access to the sixth floor.  Upon communication, a yell down the shaft or by radio/walkie talkie, power turned back on.  Truly or Baker one observed one elevator had gone down after they ran up.  Men observed running out the back of the TSBD.  Strictly speculation on my part.

Somewhere in her story Vickie Adams heard and observed the cable of at least a freight elevator moving again.  I think this was before she went outside.  I'll try to look for specifics tomorrow.

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To Paul ...

Both John and I have looked at 6th floor TSBD photos from ‘63 trying to see if new wood or cut boards could be seen anywhere near the area that would likely be above the passenger elevator shaft. We haven’t been able to come up with much, but, of course, the visual data is limited.

In my opinion, at least, Truly’s decision to move past the passenger elevator might well be for the reason you describe, or might, as John has suggested, also be because he knew the power was off to the elevator and that the front stairs only provided access to the 2nd floor and the basement.

To Ron ...

You're probably already familiar with this, but to show the location of the 1st floor electrical panels, the two freight elevators and the rear stairs, here’s an excerpt from Escape from the Sixth Floor:

Below is a diagram of the 1st floor of the Book Depository showing the position of Baker and Truly (red line). One of the two men was standing near the freight elevators (yellow), the only access to the 6th floor when the electricity is off. The other man, according to Officer Baker, was "20 or 30 feet away," and likely standing very close to the buildings electrical panels (purple). If these two men were Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady, as seen and identified by Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles only moments earlier, then Roy Truly knew both men very well. Truly either knew, or probably knew, they were responsible for turning off the electricity, which is why Truly ignored the passenger elevator, failed to look at the electrical panels, ignored the two men, said nothing to anyone about these two men, and ran up the wooden stairs with Officer Baker.

QUESTION: The President of the United States was shot moments earlier. Why would Roy Truly, or any unarmed citizen, race up the stairs in order to find and confront one or more armed assailants who would likely have shot him on sight? Truly's actions imply that he knew for a fact there was no reason to fear such a confrontation.  
Bsmnt_Floor_Plan.jpg
Elect_Panel.jpg
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Many things are possible. However, besides seeing lights in the front part of the building where the 1st floor lift was, the assumed roles of co-conspirators Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady defies me. I always understood that Shelley and Lovelady had left the steps after the shooting and before returning to the building, they went to the island infront of the building and maybe even walked in direction to railroad tracks, and only then returned to the building. This information is both in their Warren Commission testimonies, and it has been confirmed by Buell Wesley Frazier in one of his interviews - he saw them on the steps after the shooting and witnessed how they went out to that island. I would also not interprete Vicki Adams' description she gave to Barry Ernest as confirming that these two men were in the back of the building when she reached the 1st floor. She only saw one Afro-American men there. She actually denied seeing these two men when she reached the firts floor. Am I missing something?

Edited by Andrej Stancak
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I don't understand why John's theory has Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady at the back of the building shortly after the shots. They weren't there.

First, we know that Victoria Adams came down the stairs immediately after the shots. And we know that she did NOT see Lovelady or Shelley as she exited the stairway on the first floor... she said so herself, to Barry Ernest.

Second, Shelley and Lovelady lied in their WC testimonies. But even if they were to be believed, they wouldn't have arrived at the back of the building till several minutes after the shooting.

John doesn't seem to know the story of how the WC eliminated Oswald's alibi:

  1. The WC fabricated the Baker/Oswald encounter in order to move Oswald's true location (on the first floor, out on the steps) to the second floor at the rear of the building.
  2. Later the WC realized that Victoria Adams' testimony contradicted the official story. She should have at least heard Oswald running down the steps as she descended the stairwell, but she didn't.
  3. The WC solved the Victoria Adams problem by altering her testimony. They added that she saw Shelley and Lovelady when she exited the stairwell on the first floor. And....
  4. The WC got Shelley and Lovelady to say they arrived at the back of the building several minutes after the shooting. This resulted in discrediting Victoria Adams' claim to have descended the stairway immediately after the shooting. Problem solved.

 

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45 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I don't understand why John's theory has Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady at the back of the building shortly after the shots. They weren't there.

First, we know that Victoria Adams came down the stairs immediately after the shots. And we know that she did NOT see Lovelady or Shelley as she exited the stairway on the first floor... she said so herself, to Barry Ernest.

Second, Shelley and Lovelady lied in their WC testimonies. But even if they were to be believed, they wouldn't have arrived at the back of the building till several minutes after the shooting.

John doesn't seem to know the story of how the WC eliminated Oswald's alibi:

  1. The WC fabricated the Baker/Oswald encounter in order to move Oswald's true location (on the first floor, out on the steps) to the second floor at the rear of the building.
  2. Later the WC realized that Victoria Adams' testimony contradicted the official story. She should have at least heard Oswald running down the steps as she descended the stairwell, but she didn't.
  3. The WC solved the Victoria Adams problem by altering her testimony. They added that she saw Shelley and Lovelady when she exited the stairwell on the first floor. And....
  4. The WC got Shelley and Lovelady to say they arrived at the back of the building several minutes after the shooting. This resulted in discrediting Victoria Adams' claim to have descended the stairway immediately after the shooting. Problem solved.

 

What Sandy said.

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A main theme of this write-up shows how everyone’s story changed over time.  In both her Warren Commission testimony (marked “Top Secret”), which she allegedly corrected and signed, Adams wrote, “After the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building, down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.”  That is clearly at the back of the building near the electrical panels.  She said essentially the same thing in her statement to Dallas Police.  To Leavelle, she said, “The elevator was not running  and there was no one on the stairs.  I went down to the first floor.  I saw Mr. Shelley and another employee named Bill. The freight elevator had not moved, and I still didn’t see anyone on the stairs.”

In Shelley’s affidavit he mentions meeting Gloria Calvery in the little island between the Elm Streets, but that’s just a few feet from the front door of the Book Depositoy.  Then he went back into the building, called his wife (he said) and then he indicated that “I stayed at the elevator,” just where Adams said she saw him in her earliest accounts.

In Lovelady’s affidavit, he said that after the shots “we went back into the building….”

None of this contradicts Adams’ original statements, other than Shelley (possibly) calling his wife.  After the earliest statemenst though, everyone’s story began to change.  Before long, Lovelady told the WC that he walked all the way to the railroad tracks and Shelley claimed he was still outside the building when Truly and Baker walked in.

Vickie Adams told author Barry Ernest that she was followed and harassed for a long time after the assassination, and she eventually, we think, saw the fate in store for her and changed her story as well.  She had ample reason to be afraid.  As John wrote: “In January 1979, near the end of the HSCA hearings, Billy Lovelady died of a heart attack at age 41.  His wife, Patricia, refused to discuss his death except to say, ‘I have been harassed for 15 years, and I'm not going to be harassed any more.’"  The story was reported in the New York Times, Jan. 19, 1979, page 15.

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Besides my concerns about Shelley and Lovelady and the presence of power supply in the front of the building, there is also a question of the assassins' exit from the building. John suggests they exited the lift on the first floor. How could they be certain that they would not be seen by people standing close to the lift? They could not know who would stand there, this was beyond their control. No assassin would agree to a venture with uncertain escape. Further, how could they restore the wooden floor from below the floor - there would be certain signs that the wooden floor was tempered with, e.g. missing nails or similar. 

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