Jump to content
The Education Forum

“The lights all went out,” and the elevators stopped while JFK was murdered. Shelley and Lovelady were near the bottom of the back staircase, by the electrical panel... and Vickie Adams saw them ... until everyone's story changed...


Recommended Posts

Ray,

Keep on posting.  Your posts will be seen by others but, not me.  I just put you on an ignore list.  I have been trying to ignore you trolling behavior for some time.  I have not been successful because many of you moronic notions needed an answer.  But, no more.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 729
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

This is more of a close up on the Johnson security vehicle from Altgens 6.  It suggests that something was going on with this vehicle that needed adjusting.  I don't know what?

altgens-6-auto-strange-perspective.jpg

The vehicle is grossly distorted in appearance while no one else is.  It is much larger in appearance than the vehicle in front of it.  It is either photo editing or a magic camera.  This is what the vehicle would look like normally or close to what it would look like.  There maybe some slight differences in trim.

1964-Mercury-Monterey-Breezeway-Design-5

Something must have been going on with the Johnson security vehicle.  Here is frame 159 of the Zapruder film.  Do you notice anything odd?

z-frame-159-1.jpg

The vehicle seems to be backing into the intersection.  No!  Wait! there is a front end to the vehicle.  But, what about the top?

Edited by John Butler
Link to post
Share on other sites

Trying to get back on topic, are there any clues to who was on the sixth floor of the Book Depository building parading around as an assassin of JFK?  Probably so....

The first image below is a closeup capture from Dallas Morning News photographer Tom Dillard’s film taken seconds after the shots rang out in Dealey Plaza. This extreme closeup zooms in on just a part of the window closest to the so-called “sniper’s nest” on the SE corner of the TSBD.  The face and right shoulder of a human figure appears to have been captured by Dillard there.  

John A. added dotted lines to the image to show what we believe are the figure’s hairline, chin, and collar.  Note the white shirt under the collar line. 

Who could this man be?

6th_Floor_Oz.jpg

Have we seen that hairline before?

4oswalds.jpg

Could the image at the left above be the same fellow who spent weeks leading up to the assassination creating scenes at the Sports Drome rifle range, the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership, the Southland Hotel, etc? Could it be the same man who shared his identity for years in a Cold War spy game with a Russian-speaking emigre who traveled to the Soviet Union and eventually became the patsy in the JFK hit? This is hard to prove, of course, but to see all the "Harvey and Lee" evidence John A. has compiled and I've put on the Web, click on the link below:

Harvey and Lee

To see John's write-up on the Escape from the Sixth Floor, just click on the link below:

Escape from the Sixth Floor

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Trying to get back on topic, are there any clues to who was on the sixth floor of the Book Depository building parading around as an assassin of JFK?  Probably so....

The first image below is a closeup capture from Dallas Morning News photographer Tom Dillard’s film taken seconds after the shots rang out in Dealey Plaza. This extreme closeup zooms in on just a part of the window closest to the so-called “sniper’s nest” on the SE corner of the TSBD.  The face and right shoulder of a human figure appears to have been captured by Dillard there.  

John A. added dotted lines to the image to show what we believe are the figure’s hairline, chin, and collar.  Note the white shirt under the collar line. 

Who could this man be?

6th_Floor_Oz.jpg

 

 

 

Jim, I believe that window is on the west side of the TSBD.  I was curious about this Dillard photo when we were talking about the 6th floor escapees fleeing down the passenger elevator --why would this person have traveled all the way to the west side if his aim was to get down the elevator shaft as quickly as possible?  Supposedly, Tom Dillard took the photo 15 seconds after the last shot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Trying to get back on topic, are there any clues to who was on the sixth floor of the Book Depository building parading around as an assassin of JFK?  Probably so....

The first image below is a closeup capture from Dallas Morning News photographer Tom Dillard’s film taken seconds after the shots rang out in Dealey Plaza. This extreme closeup zooms in on just a part of the window closest to the so-called “sniper’s nest” on the SE corner of the TSBD.  The face and right shoulder of a human figure appears to have been captured by Dillard there.  

John A. added dotted lines to the image to show what we believe are the figure’s hairline, chin, and collar.  Note the white shirt under the collar line. 

Who could this man be?

6th_Floor_Oz.jpg

Have we seen that hairline before?

4oswalds.jpg

Could the image at the left above be the same fellow who spent weeks leading up to the assassination creating scenes at the Sports Drome rifle range, the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership, the Southland Hotel, etc? Could it be the same man who shared his identity for years in a Cold War spy game with a Russian-speaking emigre who traveled to the Soviet Union and eventually became the patsy in the JFK hit? This is hard to prove, of course, but to see all the "Harvey and Lee" evidence John A. has compiled and I've put on the Web, click on the link below:

Harvey and Lee

To see John's write-up on the Escape from the Sixth Floor, just click on the link below:

Escape from the Sixth Floor

 

Jim,

As I am sure you are aware (there are plenty here though who are not), the absolute proof beyond any doubt that the image is of a man in the far left  - the southwest corner - window of the sixth floor in the uncropped Dillard photo is this:

The  Warren Commission published Dillard Exhibit "B", a cropped version of the original photo, one in which the extreme left edge of the photo was cut. The only imagery omitted was the window in which the shadowy image of a man (above) appears.

There was only one reason to crop that photo - to hide the photographic disproof of the entire "official" - i.e. no - conspiracy - version of the murder.

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Dillard_Ex_B.pdf

 

Edited by Paul Jolliffe
Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Paul Bacon said:

Jim, I believe that window is on the west side of the TSBD.  I was curious about this Dillard photo when we were talking about the 6th floor escapees fleeing down the passenger elevator --why would this person have traveled all the way to the west side if his aim was to get down the elevator shaft as quickly as possible?  Supposedly, Tom Dillard took the photo 15 seconds after the last shot.

Ain't it peculiar that just as the authorities get their hands on key photos and films, why "poof!" Those films just go up in smoke, accidentally damaged (with profuse apologies, mind you) forever!

Huh.

Just a coincidence, I guess . . .

Here's yet another one:

    Note: on the Dillard Photos:The HSCA was requested by the SRI 
International to be allowed at a cost of $5,000.00 to enhance by means 
of state of the ark equipment to find possible hidden information within 
the negatives of the Dillard photos....of the TSBD...Dillard had custody 
of his original negatives, but he co-operated and turned over twelve of 
the negatives..four eventually being processed....SRI would not accept 
liability and made this clear...in early 78 the study resulted in the 
findings above. 
     Unfortunately ,the negatives, particularly frame 24, 
"........became detached from the agitation apparatus and the gelatine 
was abraded during the time it was freely agitated without 
support"....in otherwords they ruined it.....they blamed it on a 
malfunction of equipment ...they extended apologies and regrets to the 
Committee and Dillard.... 
     Robert Groden who was the HSCA independent consultant was asked to 
comment ..on the damage...He found that negative # 8 also had been 
damaged by a coating not originally on the negative...but now 
evident...negative # 24 suffered also from this problem...( this is the 
negative that showed the 6th floor window ) also part of this negative 
appeared to have had it's emulsion rubbed off from the film base....To a 
lay person, the negative looks terrible .....the emulsion on the 
negative appears to have run down and melted into a pool of taffy like, 
a pool below.... The left side of the sniper's double window in badly 
affected, though the lower part of the snipers window escaped serious 
damage ...the whole negative looked like it was worn and crackled...and 
in otherwords the negative also had a tear (hole) in it......Dillard in 
1979 received back his damaged goods , and copies of the SRI report, and 
a letter and the Groden comments...Blakely lamely wrote Dillard that the 
Committee was assured the process was safe and regretted the damage...." 
These two historically signifigant frames had been irreversibly harmed 
by experts."....(12) 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, guys.

When John sent me the image, I had just assumed (usually a mistake in this case) that it was from the SE corner window... so this is news to me.  Can you tell me how you know for sure the close-up is from the SW side of the building?  Is it that Dillard Exhibit “B”  was cropped to exclude the SW window?  The AARC link Paul J. included above looks like it leads to a printed page from the WC volumes.  I doubt that the halftone in a printed book would contain much detail at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah... I just flipped through Robert Groden's "Search for Lee Harvey Oswald" and I see it is shown on page. 109.  I had forgotten that.  Robert identifies it as "the west end window."

Edited by Jim Hargrove
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Trying to get back on topic, are there any clues to who was on the sixth floor of the Book Depository building parading around as an assassin of JFK?  Probably so....

The first image below is a closeup capture from Dallas Morning News photographer Tom Dillard’s film taken seconds after the shots rang out in Dealey Plaza. This extreme closeup zooms in on just a part of the window closest to the so-called “sniper’s nest” on the SE corner of the TSBD.  The face and right shoulder of a human figure appears to have been captured by Dillard there.  

John A. added dotted lines to the image to show what we believe are the figure’s hairline, chin, and collar.  Note the white shirt under the collar line. 

Who could this man be?

6th_Floor_Oz.jpg

Have we seen that hairline before?

4oswalds.jpg

Could the image at the left above be the same fellow who spent weeks leading up to the assassination creating scenes at the Sports Drome rifle range, the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership, the Southland Hotel, etc? Could it be the same man who shared his identity for years in a Cold War spy game with a Russian-speaking emigre who traveled to the Soviet Union and eventually became the patsy in the JFK hit? This is hard to prove, of course, but to see all the "Harvey and Lee" evidence John A. has compiled and I've put on the Web, click on the link below:

Harvey and Lee

To see John's write-up on the Escape from the Sixth Floor, just click on the link below:

Escape from the Sixth Floor

 

Don't know if this is helpful.  Here are 4 images magnified.  I believe these are Lee Oswald not, Harvey.  The problem is that the TSBD window image is of such poor quality.

lee-oswald-mags-1.jpg

Lee Oswald is characterized by features that are hard to see in any of these photos.  The upper right is the best example.

1.  Receding hairline

2.  Sloping shoulders

3.  Broad but, short chin

4.  Slender neck, not wide like Harvey but, fairly normal in appearance

5.  Broad nose

6.  No earlobes

7.  Broad and high forehead

The only things I can see are:

1.  Holds head in the same manner as Lee Oswald

2.  Has what appears as a receding hairline

3.  I don't see the characteristic wide neck of Harvey Oswald, hard to say about sloping shoulders

4.  Has broad forehead

5.  General shape of the head and appearance might suggest Lee Oswald

I won't defend any of these points strongly.  The image quality is just to poor.

 

Edited by John Butler
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Ah... I just flipped through Robert Groden's "Search for Lee Harvey Oswald" and I see it is shown on page. 109.  I had forgotten that.  Robert identifies it as "the west end window."

Yes Jim, my info came from Groden's "The Killing of a President".

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again for helping me out with that.  Bart Kamp posted an interview of a KDOS employee named Sam Pate in which he seemed to say there was a rumor that a rifle was found in the grass that may have been tossed out a window at the west end of the Book Depository.  It doesn’t say that literally, but if you look at the top of page 6 of the interview, you’ll probably agree that is what Pate meant to say.  It probably isn’t true (and if it was we surely wouldn’t have been told about by the “investigators”), but it started making me wonder if there weren’t two reasons for the whole TSBD spectacle.

First, to set up the patsy.  And second, to act as a diversion for the real kill shots, which surely came from the front.  It would make perfect sense.


To John B – When John Pic told the Warren Commission “the Lee Harvey Oswald I met in November, 1962 was not the same Lee Oswald I had known 10 years previous," one of the distinguishing features he noted was that the “LHO” he met in 1962 “no longer had a bull neck.”  It’s often hard to trust the photographic record, but John and I think it was American-born LEE Oswald who was two inches taller, heavier, and had a bull neck,” as opposed to the Russian-speaking Oswald.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2019 at 5:05 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Thanks again for helping me out with that.  Bart Kamp posted an interview of a KDOS employee named Sam Pate in which he seemed to say there was a rumor that a rifle was found in the grass that may have been tossed out a window at the west end of the Book Depository.  It doesn’t say that literally, but if you look at the top of page 6 of the interview, you’ll probably agree that is what Pate meant to say.  It probably isn’t true (and if it was we surely wouldn’t have been told about by the “investigators”), but it started making me wonder if there weren’t two reasons for the whole TSBD spectacle.

First, to set up the patsy.  And second, to act as a diversion for the real kill shots, which surely came from the front.  It would make perfect sense.


To John B – When John Pic told the Warren Commission “the Lee Harvey Oswald I met in November, 1962 was not the same Lee Oswald I had known 10 years previous," one of the distinguishing features he noted was that the “LHO” he met in 1962 “no longer had a bull neck.”  It’s often hard to trust the photographic record, but John and I think it was American-born LEE Oswald who was two inches taller, heavier, and had a bull neck,” as opposed to the Russian-speaking Oswald.

Jim,

While the exact shot sequence and firing locations are probably never going to be settled beyond a reasonable doubt,  I do think a powerful case can be made that a shot - which missed the motorcade - was fired just as or very soon after the limo turned onto Elm. It did not necessarily sound like a shot as a number of witnesses described it in terms other than the crack of a high-powered rifle. Whatever it was, it missed.

Had the president been fatally wounded with that first shot, then there would have been no need for any further shots from any direction, including the front.

Your other point is worth emphasizing in full: John Pic at Thanksgiving in November of 1962 did NOT recognize his his half - brother ("Oswald") after a ten year separation. That it was not the same man is evident to anyone who reads Pic's testimony in full.  Why wasn't "Marguerite" there at that family gathering of her sons during a holiday? Because the mother of three sons was not the "mother in history", the "mother" of "Oswald." Different women. Different "Oswald's". Different "mothers".         

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 5:05 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Thanks again for helping me out with that.  Bart Kamp posted an interview of a KDOS employee named Sam Pate in which he seemed to say there was a rumor that a rifle was found in the grass that may have been tossed out a window at the west end of the Book Depository.  It doesn’t say that literally, but if you look at the top of page 6 of the interview, you’ll probably agree that is what Pate meant to say.  It probably isn’t true (and if it was we surely wouldn’t have been told about by the “investigators”), but it started making me wonder if there weren’t two reasons for the whole TSBD spectacle.

First, to set up the patsy.  And second, to act as a diversion for the real kill shots, which surely came from the front.  It would make perfect sense.


To John B – When John Pic told the Warren Commission “the Lee Harvey Oswald I met in November, 1962 was not the same Lee Oswald I had known 10 years previous," one of the distinguishing features he noted was that the “LHO” he met in 1962 “no longer had a bull neck.”  It’s often hard to trust the photographic record, but John and I think it was American-born LEE Oswald who was two inches taller, heavier, and had a bull neck,” as opposed to the Russian-speaking Oswald.

Jim,

Here's something that has been rattling around in my mind as a speculation.  Supposedly, Harvey Oswald was a confidant of David Ferrie and involved in the monkey virus business.  Could Oswald have caught the SV 40 virus and aids.  I base this on the following photos.  It is a mere speculation.  And, I would know how you would come up with any evidence.  Blood from his clothing?  There seems to be about 30-40 pounds difference in these photos.  The weight difference can be explained other ways such as living a semi-married life existence.

oswald-marine-oswald-jail.jpg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a fan of Judith Baker.  But, Ed Haslam makes a fair case in  Dr. Mary's Monkey.  Haslam believes aids originated in New Orleans.  I have always believed aids spread early on in the 1960s from a port city.  If you really think about it airlines work faster.  in 1968 during military times in Korea we were warned not to go to Japan because there was a strange VD there which if you caught it you would die within just a few weeks.  They called it the "black clap".   There rumors as in the early 1980's that the CIA spread aids as a means to do something.  I don't even remember the source for this. 

If you have ever been in the army you will known how wild and profligate rumors are being passed around all the time.  Imagine that if it is true.  1963 New Orleans to 1968 world wide plague.

I believe you have this photo.  It is supposedly Harvey Oswald in the Marines.  A lot of folks identify this as Harvey.

oswald-which-oswald-brother-robert-a.jpg

Edited by John Butler
Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...