“The lights all went out,” and the elevators stopped while JFK was murdered. Shelley and Lovelady were near the bottom of the back staircase, by the electrical panel... and Vickie Adams saw them ... until everyone's story changed...

[Jim Hargrove]

7 hours ago, John Butler said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Lovelady is leaning out so he could follow the parade down Elm Street. His shoulder isn't missing he is leaning.

Ray,

To heck with the shoulder.  LOOK AT THAT GUY'S FACE!!!  I never thought I'd believe in this Mission Impossible face mask business, but to my old eyes there is CLEARLY another face pasted over the original in this image.  John Butler is right!  Highlights and shadows do not explain this, at least for me.  I have no idea why anyone would do this, but that sure looks like a "face mask" to me.

Why don't you put aside for a moment your obvious beef with John B, and just look at the picture?

[Jim Hargrove]

 

DOES THIS CLIP REALLY SHOW SHELLEY AND LOVELADY?

 

Several people here seem to believe that the clip above shows William Shelley and Billy Lovelady moving towards the scattered Presidential procession….

Why do they believe that?

Is there any real evidence for this belief?

Some of these people tell us that Lovelady was wearing a checkered shirt that day, but how do we know that? The evidence is equally good that he was wearing a red and white vertically striped shirt the day JFK was assassinated:

Will someone please prove that Lovelady was really wearing a checkered shirt on 11/22/63?

In their earliest statements made in their own handwriting, both Shelley and Lovelady indicated that they almost immediately went back into the Book Depository building after the shooting.

Both Shelley and Lovelady wrote affidavits in their own handwriting on 11/22/63, just a few hours after the assassination, and both indicated that they went back into the building quickly. Moments after the last shot was fired at President Kennedy, Shelley and Lovelady were at the back of the TSBD on the 1st floor, and both men then accompanied police officers as they searched the building.

In Shelley's 11/22/63 affidavit he wrote, "I went back to the building & went inside & called my wife & told her what happened. I was on the first floor then & I stayed at the elevator & was told not to let anyone out of the elevator. I left the elevator and went with the police on up to the other floors." (see affidavit below).

In Lovelady's 11/22/63 affidavit he wrote, "After it was over we went back into the building and went to work took some police officers up to search the building" (see affidavit below).

Sorry to repeat these images once more, but I do think these first affidavits in Lovelady and Shelley’s own hands are important. This was before the Warren Commission twisted everything. Read the affidavits again and tell me how these men could possibly be shown in the clip above.

 

In the film clip at the top of this post, one man seems to be just passing the other.   In his 3/18/64 FBI report, remarkably different from his 11/22/63 DPD affidavit, Shelley told the FBI, "Immediately following the shooting, Billy N. Lovelady and I accompanied some uniformed police officers to the railroad yards just west of the building and returned through the west side door of the building about ten minutes later."

Where are the police in the frames above?  You can see well ahead of the two circled men and well behind them.  These two unidentified men do not appear to be accompanying any police officers.

Why do both Lovelady and Shelley add more and more time to their return to the TSBD as the weeks and months after the assassination went by?

Will someone please explain to me why several people here believe Shelley and Lovelady are depicted in the clip above?  Why should anyone believe that?
 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Jim Hargrove

[Tony Krome]

[Chris Davidson]

10 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

If this is not the same person in both frames, somebody did a masterful job.

Who said anything about the above being the same person in Altgens?

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I believe it is Lovelady that we see in Altgens 6. But I also believe that the photo was touched up before it was released to show a plaid pattern for the shirt. I just purchased a couple of 11/23/63 newspapers on e-Bay to see if I am right. I'm expecting there to be no plaid.

Why on earth would anyone want to change the shirt pattern?

I think it's now pretty much established that the second-story Baker/Oswald encounter is a fake story devised to cover up Oswald's alibi, which we now know was that he was outside watching the motorcade during the shooting.

I (currently) believe that the cover-up artists made a mistake in concocting that coverup story. Their story had Lovelady wearing a red plaid shirt. (There's a reason their story had Lovelady wearing that shirt, but I won't go into that now.) But he actually wore a red and white striped shirt.

Because of that, it was necessary for them to touch up Altgens 6 before a high resolution version of it could be released to the public. So that the public would see Lovelady wearing the plaid shirt, not the striped shirt.

 

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Seems like a long shot that any of these old newspapers will answer the alteration question, doesn't it?

 

The two newspapers I ordered both include the Altgens 6 photo. And it appears from the photos posted in their eBay listings that there is sufficient resolution to see a plaid pattern in the shirt if there is one. I expect there NOT to be a plaid pattern, because the newspaper copies were released before any touch up could have been done.

If it turns out that there is a plaid pattern, then my theory needs to be reworked.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

44 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

10 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

If this is not the same person in both frames, somebody did a masterful job.

 

Who said anything about the above being the same person in Altgens?
 

 

Almost everybody says that. That's the official story. Lovelady even posed with that shirt years later:

 

I thought that I was one of only a few who doesn't believe they are the same guy.

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

9 hours ago, John Butler said:

 

 

LOOK AT THAT GUY'S FACE!!!  ......

I have no idea why anyone would do this, but that sure looks like a "face mask" to me.
 

 

Jim,

I think Lovelady's face looks the way it does because somebody has cranked the contrast up to an exceedingly high level.

However, there is something that has always looked odd to me. And it is the the guy next to Lovelady, wearing a tie, and standing in profile (he's looking to the east). Part of his image seems to be overlapping Lovelady's face... his left cheek and mouth seem to be covered up by it. I pointed this out to David Joseph's once but he couldn't see it.

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Tony Krome said:

Since we're a long way from the elevator outage here...  Who's the person on the left in the white jacket with the beanie all the way down over his hair on a nice day walking to the right, away from the proceedings as they were happening, there, but not paying attention to the parade (he'd come to see - why else be there?).

[Tony Krome]

22 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Since we're a long way from the elevator outage here...  Who's the person on the left in the white jacket with the beanie all the way down over his hair on a nice day walking to the right, away from the proceedings as they were happening, there, but not paying attention to the parade (he'd come to see - why else be there?).

That's Peggy Joyce Hawkins holding her child who has a beanie on

http://www.prayer-man.com/peggy-joyce-hawkins/

[John Butler]

Jim,

It looks like folks are trying to end your thread.  You are doing a lot of good by showing the truth of what occurred long ago.  There's a pack of troells that dog my footsteps and they are doing the same thing here that they did on the last thing I posted, Mass Hysteria in Dealey Plaza.  Frankly, I thought that piece would only get about a couple of hundred views since I had posted it before and no one payed much attention to it.  This time I sourced the statements.  And, by doing that only one person actually talked about the thread the rest was harassment on the Altgens 5 photo manipulation by the usual pack of disinformation troells.  The fools kept that piece alive for about 98 comments and 6700 views.  All to my benefit.  The piece was finally ended by Michael Cross saying:

Michael Cross   

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Posted April 5

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 2:38 PM, Ray Mitcham said:

Got it in one, Jeremy

Exactly.  We're really getting into disinformation territory.

 

They are now doing that here.   Here's a good example:

The original of Altgens 6 is just magnified with no other adjustments.  Krome's Altgens 6 seems to have the Oswald figures shoulder and arm added to as versus the orginal.  Also the face mask of Lovelady still shows in the duller version.

Krome needs to source where his visual presentation came from and some information explaining.

Check out Ron Bulman's post of Krome's Altgens 6 for the kind of thinking and work that they do.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by John Butler

[Sandy Larsen]

9 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Since we're a long way from the elevator outage here...  Who's the person on the left in the white jacket with the beanie all the way down over his hair on a nice day walking to the right, away from the proceedings as they were happening, there, but not paying attention to the parade (he'd come to see - why else be there?).

 

I suspect that when his mother asked if he wanted to go see the presidential parade, this is what came to mind:

 

 

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I think it's now pretty much established that the second-story Baker/Oswald encounter is a fake story devised to cover up Oswald's alibi, which we now know was that he was outside watching the motorcade during the shooting.

This encounter can also be explained if there was someone who looked like “Lee Harvey Oswald” appearing in the 6th floor window(s), wearing a white shirt, and soon trying to escape the building.  Note the white shirt in the closeup capture from Dillard’s film.

If the white-shirted Oswald’s job was to set up the patsy (the Oswald in the red or brown shirt), when the white shirted Oswald was done parading around on the 6th floor, he had to make an escape, which is the subject of this thread.  John A. thinks the white-shirted Oswald was probably starting to walk down the rear staircase from the second to the first floor when he heard someone coming up and decided to open the door immediately to his right and entered the TSBD office where he was seen by Mrs. Reid.

Mr. BELIN. How did you know the person you saw was Lee Harvey Oswald 
on the second floor?
Mrs. REID. Because it looked just like him.
Mr. BELIN. You mean the picture with the name Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. Oh, yes.
Mr. BELIN. But you had seen him in the building?
Mrs. REID. Other than that day, sure.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some kind
of wash trousers. What color I couldn’t tell you.

Soon after, this white-shirted Oswald was seen by a number of witnesses entering the Nash Rambler.  He went on to his final act of setting up the patsy: killing Officer Tippit and then moving off in the direction of the Texas Theater, where the brown-shirted Oswald was already looking for his contact.  Remember those DPD radio dispatches of the Tippit killer in a WHITE SHIRT!

We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, (siren) black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks. (Sirens)

If this analysis is correct, it of course means that Mrs. Reid mistook the white-shirted Oswald for the brown-shirted Oswald.  It also means that Roy Truly vouched for the white-shirted Oswald.  Isn’t it amazing that unarmed Roy Truly apparently led the way in front of gun-toting Baker in search of an assassin who might certainly be heavily armed.  What bravery!
 

[John Butler]

[Chris Davidson]

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

You appear to be the one derailing this thread with your idiotic assessments.

I can't wait to hear your explanation as to why I posted the following in FLV format.

Anyone else care to enlighten the genius?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15aufNDEaX6Mb83xIEKcaThcxa1eeNtEw/view?usp=sharing

 

[Tony Krome]

Good job with the stabilising Chris