“The lights all went out,” and the elevators stopped while JFK was murdered. Shelley and Lovelady were near the bottom of the back staircase, by the electrical panel... and Vickie Adams saw them ... until everyone's story changed...

[Sandy Larsen]

15 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Sandy and John,

Your summations point out the difficulty of determining exactly where and when Shelley and Lovelady did whatever it was they did after the shots.

I don't have any final answers, and I am suspicious of anyone who argues vehemently one way or another. Either version might be true: they may have walked toward the rail tracks and stayed for a very few minutes, or they may not have. 

Paul,

I agree that there is some possibility that Shelley and Lovelady went to the railroad yard and then entered the TSBD's west door afterward. But I find it highly suspicious that neither mention this in a number of 1963 interviews, and then make it the highlight of their story in March 1964. How convenient it is that -- at the time when the WC is formulating it's narrative -- they suddenly appear inside the TSBD very near to where Victoria Adams exits the stairway so that they can have their "encounter" which was obviously designed to discredit Adams' damning timing of when  precisely she ran downstairs.

I therefore count the railroad yard trip a probable lie.

 

15 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Even if they did lie later, I don't see that as proof that they went along with anything more than the post-shooting frame-up of "Oswald" - if "Oswald" was Prayerman (note I said "if"), then they had to know that he was on the steps beside/behind them at the time of the shots.  The same had to be true for Frazier who was, after all, just a 19 year old kid!

So, were Shelley, Lovelady and Frazier all coerced/threatened/"advised"/persuaded to refrain from giving "Oswald" an alibi? To keep their mouths shut?

Well, we know for certain Frazier was aggressively interrogated and damn near charged with complicity. Will Fritz was desperate to get Frazier to admit that he knew that "Oswald" had carried in the rifle to the TSBD that morning. But Frazier would not do it, and so when Fritz got word from the FBI either later Friday night or early Saturday morning that the FBI could "link" the rifle to "Oswald", then Frazier was no longer needed, and he was released.

We also know that Shelley later (apparently) claimed to have been nearly arrested himself on Friday afternoon/evening. And since Lovelady had a prior conviction record for receiving and concealing stolen firearms from an Army base/depot, then Lovelady would have been very vulnerable to extralegal "pressure".

If (IF) Shelley and Lovelady did return immediately to the TSBD, were they then seen by Marrion Baker and later, Robert MacNeil and/or Pierce Allman?

Maybe, but so what? At this point, I can't even say for certain that the power was cut to the TSBD, let alone that they had anything to do with it. The power may have been cut briefly, but the ambiguity of Geneva Hines' statement leaves open the possibility that no power went off at any time. Plus, the fact the two freight elevators were "hung up" means nothing since they both could be "hung up" when the power was on!

(This is NOT to say that John Armstrong's hypothesized "Passenger Elevator Escape Theory" is impossible - far from it. Until and unless someone clearly identifies the man who exited the passenger elevator as Inspector Sawyer got on, I say John's theory is plausible.)

 

All good points.

 

15 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

But in the end, why are we chasing Shelley and Lovelady (who appear, at worst, to be guys who were "persuaded" to keep their mouths shut about "Oswald's" whereabouts), when Roy Samson Truly seems to be guilty as hell?

 

Admittedly I'm chasing them not for the sake of this thread, but because I believe they were instrumental in covering up Oswald's alibi.

 

15 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Truly had to have foreknowledge of the plan to pin it on "Oswald" - he was the one who started the chase in the first place! Therefore, Roy Truly was in on the conspiracy to frame "Oswald" and on some level, he had to have been in on the conspiracy to murder JFK!

Sandy, what evidence do you have that Truly was CIA? I am not saying he wasn't, but I haven't seen any evidence for it. 

I don't have any direct evidence of Truly being CIA, just circumstantial evidence and the use of deduction. First, I think the evidence for the assassination being a CIA plot is overwhelming. The CIA had to have had the means to ensure Oswald got a job at the TSBD at the right time. Which means that at least one person there -- one with hiring power --  had to have taken directions from the CIA to hire Oswald. If there was only one person fitting that bill, it had to be Truly since he was the one who (unreasonably) pointed the finger at Oswald.

I highly doubt that Truly knew any more than 1) he was to hire Oswald, and 2) he was to point his finger at Oswald. Because he didn't need to know more. (However, if it was Truly who arranged for the gunmen to arrive and leave, then he probably also knew they were there to assassinate Kennedy.)

The reason I believe the TSBD was a CIA front is because a plan was apparently devised and carried out to allow gunmen to enter the building, shoot, and leave. It seems to me that that would have been a difficult thing to do at a normal place of business. CIA cover businesses are different. They can be compartmented with individuals and groups of individuals not knowing what each other is up to. So if something "different" happens, it doesn't raise eyebrows.

 

15 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Also, Sandy, what do you make of the allegations that the TSBD was used as a clandestine drop point for rifles to be shipped to the anti-Castro forces in preparation for another raid on Cuba?

I haven't heard of that Paul. But I'd like to read about it... if there is evidence backing it up.

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 5/16/2019 at 8:36 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Also, Sandy, thanks for the info that Gloria Calvery and Lovelady can be identified together by the front steps in the Darnell clip just a half minute or so after the shooting.  Thanks, too, for the suggestion that Lovelady can be seen on the TSBD steps in the very same frames of the clip supposedly showing Shelley and him walking down the Elm extension.  If you could point me to either one or both of these visuals, I’d REALLY appreciate it.

 

Jim,

Here is a Darnell frame showing the supposed Shelley and supposed Lovelady walking toward the railroad tracks together:
 

Note that "Shelley" appears to be taller than "Lovelady" in Darnell. This alone is problematic for the identification because Lovelady was in reality taller than Shelley. I believe that their heights were 5' 9" for Lovelady and 5' 6" for Shelley. Now, Shelley once said that he was actually an inch or two taller in 1963, before he was involved in an accident. If you add the 2" figure to his 5' 6" that gives 5' 8" which is still shorter than Lovelady. Unfortunately I don't have this information documented (I just read it a couple days ago myself), so it would be better for you to find the source of this information. I wish I would have made notes.

But regardless of that, the Lovelady identification is still problematic because at the very same time we see those two walking toward the railroad tracks, we also see Lovelady in Darnell standing on the TSBD steps. Here he is:

 

Lovelady is the guy standing in front of Prayer Man, and at this time he is a couple steps down from the top landing. So, how do we know this is Lovelady? For one thing, Lovelady was standing in that general area the whole time, as can be seen in different films and Altgens 6. For another, we see that this guy is balding. In the above frame it looks like this guy might be completely bald, but you can see he is not in the following animated gif:

 

 

This gif shows Lovelady turning his head toward the west, at which point it is easy to see his hair.

Now, people who insist that Shelley and Lovelady are headed off to the railroad tracks in Darnell will naturally say that this man in not Lovelady. The problem with that claim is this: If that were the case, then Lovelady must have left the steps right after the Altgens 6 photo was taken and some other balding guy took Lovelady's place within about 30 seconds. That's very unlikely.

Oh, BTW, I originally said that the two guys walking to the railroad tracks were in the same frame of the same film showing Lovelady on the steps, the film being Darnell. (Or possibly Couch.) That's not quite true. I thought it was true because Darnell/Couch does indeed show the two guys walking to the railroad tracks at the very same time as we see Lovelady on the steps. What I didn't realize at the moment is that the film pans over from one scene to another. I was thinking (erroneously) that I couldn't see the two scenes in the very same frame merely because I had greatly enlarged the frame and cropped off all the surrounding. But no, it's because the camera panned over. But my mistake is irrelevant... the film still shows Lovelady in two places at the same time.

As for my claim that Lovelady (on the steps) is talking to Gloria Calvery, just scroll back up and look a Lovelady. You will see that he is facing a woman in black who is a couple steps below Lovelady. It's pretty clear that they are talking, especially given that we can see him stooping down in the film as if he is struggling to hear what she is saying.

Of course I need to prove to you that that is Gloria Calvery. I have done so in the past, but it's not well documented. I am in the process of documenting it and will post it soon.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 5/16/2019 at 8:36 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Sandy, the position that Adams’s alleged sighting of Shelley and Lovelady at the bottom of the stairs was inserted later into her testimony by the WC’s high-priced attorneys in order to impeach her estimate of reaching the first floor in just a minute or so after the shots seems reasonable enough.  But if the WC was going to invent whole paragraphs of testimony for Adams, why not just change her time estimate by a couple of minutes instead, to give “Oswald” sufficient time to get down from the sixth to second floor?  With that simple edit, the problem goes away entirely.

I think it's because there were multiple witnesses to Vickie Adams' early timing. I think the WC wanted to prove that they were all wrong. What better way than having her see two people who both testified to a late arrival?

I believe it was the WC's intent to get both her AND Lovelady to testify to there encounter. How else do you explain Lovelady's blurting out "but I'm not sure it was Vickie" without even being asked if he saw Vickie. I mean, that is just bizarre... unless you know he was being coached. (BTW I'm going on memory with Lovelady's WC testimony. I'm too tired to look it up.

 

On 5/16/2019 at 8:36 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

We talked about this a few months ago, but, again, if the encounter was invented later, why did WC attorneys ask both Shelley and Lovelady about it just a few hours after Adams testified?  Do you think each man’s testimony and questioning was altered also?  That would have involved, I think, at least two or three different attorneys.

I've explained this to you twice already. You are clearly interested in asking (to raise doubts in readers' minds) but not in hearing.

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Sandy,

Sorry, I'm trying not to be so dogmatic, but I really don't remember your answer to the multiple lines of inquiry question above and it puzzles me.  If you'd answer once more, I'll make a real effort to remember it.

And your efforts to explain the Shelley and Lovelady appearances outside the TSBD really are appreciated!!!

[Jim Hargrove]

13 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Jim,

If Shelley did give "Oswald" his instructions on what to do after the shots, then it strikes me that Shelley would be the first person named, once "Oswald" started naming names. And Shelley, of course, would have received his instructions from Truly, so he would have been next on the totem pole. And higher up yet would have been TSBD President, Jack C. Cason. Cason (former commander of American Foreign Legion Post 53) , as we may know, hosted a party in the spring of 1961 (post Bay of Pigs) during which Mrs. Cason was quoted as saying that "someone ought to shoot the president"

Here's a fascinating connection between the FBI and the American Legion:

During WWII, FDR's Attorney General Robert Jackson "sidetracked a proposal by American Legion officials to monitor suspicious activity in defense plants and their communities and to report their findings to military intelligence: instead Jackson authorized the American Legion Contact program, whereby FBI agents recruited and directed Legionnaires in their monitoring activities. By the end of the war, 40,000 Legionnaires had served as FBI informers. (The FBI continued many of these contacts after 1945. Intensified following the outbreak of the Korean War in 1950, this program was terminated only in 1966.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=VnQduXa4JdoC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=american+legion+FBI+contact+program&source=bl&ots=SDbZzr9RlM&sig=ACfU3U1weYDjAKCYCW_vj1KgFt6VvPS

So Jack Cason, a self-described "patriotic citizen who upholds our democratic principles", was the head of an American Foreign Legion Post during the time when the FBI encouraged the AFL to report disloyal Americans. And Bill Shelley testified to having worked in a defense plant during WWII, and he (allegedly) later claimed to an interviewer that he had intelligence connections (CIA, supposedly.)

Bill Shelley and Jack Cason, two guys who for decades had specialized in detecting subversives. 

And yet, right under their noses, the reddest of the red - ol' "Oswald" himself - worked right there in the TSBD, yet they had no idea!

Golly gee, what irony . . .  😄

I wonder if the Glaze letters/Shelley story about almost being arrested on the afternoon of 11/22/63 might actually have a little truth to it? Could "Oswald" have actually let slip something about his contact at the TSBD (without coming right out and saying he was CIA), and could the DPD have reacted by bringing Shelley in for an interrogation? We don't know exactly what "Oswald" did say, but I think we all agree that the DPD's excuse for not producing a verbatim record of what he did say is B.S. And if the Glaze letters detail about Shelley's release coming after calls were placed to the DPD was true, then that possibly would explain the disappearance of the verbatim "Oswald" interrogations.

If Shelley was "Oswald's" contact at the TSBD (again, "if") then almost certainly it was Shelley in the background of those strange leaflet photos from New Orleans in August. 

Hmm.

"Oswald" to Shelley to Truly to  Cason to  ? ? ?

Could be.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/C Disk/Cason Jack Charles/Item 01.pdf

Thanks, Paul.  Most of the Cason stuff you posted is news to me.  

If memory serves (and it often doesn’t) didn’t the Weston/Glaze material say that Shelley claimed he was actually charged with JFK’s murder by the DPD, but that the charge was quickly dropped?  If that is true, the National Security hammer must have come down hard and fast in Dallas that day.

That same hammer is my guess about what happened to the “Oswald” interrogations as well.  My bet is that at some point while still alive and in custody the Russian-speaking Oswald began singing like a bird, and that’s when the complete record of the sessions suddenly got lost.  I think Fritz’s notes and the  various reports from the questioning all tried to be honest… up to a point.

But when the National Security juggernaut began, the pressure was surely incredible.  I’ll bet there were serious threats made to anyone who dared to endanger our national well-being, all entirely “patriotic,” of course.

[Paul Jolliffe]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Jim,

Here is a Darnell frame showing the supposed Shelley and supposed Lovelady walking toward the railroad tracks together:
 

Note that "Shelley" appears to be taller than "Lovelady" in Darnell. This alone is problematic for the identification because Lovelady was in reality taller than Shelley. I believe that their heights were 5' 9" for Lovelady and 5' 6" for Shelley. Now, Shelley once said that he was actually an inch or two taller in 1963, before he was involved in an accident. If you add the 2" figure to his 5' 6" that gives 5' 8" which is still shorter than Lovelady. Unfortunately I don't have this information documented (I just read it a couple days ago myself), so it would be better for you to find the source of this information. I wish I would have made notes.

But regardless of that, the Lovelady identification is still problematic because at the very same time we see those two walking toward the railroad tracks, we also see Lovelady in Darnell standing on the TSBD steps. Here he is:

 

Lovelady is the guy standing in front of Prayer Man, and at this time he is a couple steps down from the top landing. So, how do we know this is Lovelady? For one thing, Lovelady was standing in that general area the whole time, as can be seen in different films and Altgens 6. For another, we see that this guy is balding. In the above frame it looks like this guy might be completely bald, but you can see he is not in the following animated gif:

 

 

This gif shows Lovelady turning his head toward the west, at which point it is easy to see his hair.

Now, people who insist that Shelley and Lovelady are headed off to the railroad tracks in Darnell will naturally say that this man in not Lovelady. The problem with that claim is this: If that were the case, then Lovelady must have left the steps right after the Altgens 6 photo was taken and some other balding guy took Lovelady's place within about 30 seconds. That's very unlikely.

Oh, BTW, I originally said that the two guys walking to the railroad tracks were in the same frame of the same film showing Lovelady on the steps, the film being Darnell. (Or possibly Couch.) That's not quite true. I thought it was true because Darnell/Couch does indeed show the two guys walking to the railroad tracks at the very same time as we see Lovelady on the steps. What I didn't realize at the moment is that the film pans over from one scene to another. I was thinking (erroneously) that I couldn't see the two scenes in the very same frame merely because I had greatly enlarged the frame and cropped off all the surrounding. But no, it's because the camera panned over. But my mistake is irrelevant... the film still shows Lovelady in two places at the same time.

As for my claim that Lovelady (on the steps) is talking to Gloria Calvery, just scroll back up and look a Lovelady. You will see that he is facing a woman in black who is a couple steps below Lovelady. It's pretty clear that they are talking, especially given that we can see him stooping down in the film as if he is struggling to hear what she is saying.

Of course I need to prove to you that that is Gloria Calvery. I have done so in the past, but it's not well documented. I am in the process of documenting it and will post it soon.

 

Sandy,

That's a really good point about the appearance of a Loveladyesque figure right on the steps of the Darnell film and its similarity to the actual image of Lovelady in Altgens 6 photo. As you pointed out, since it is Lovelady in Altgens, it is either Lovelady on the steps in Darnell or some other very similar looking balding guy standing in the same spot, wearing a shirt just like Lovelady's, not 30 seconds later. The odds of that are so improbable that we can dismiss them. 

So, since Lovelady remained on the steps for at least 30 seconds after the shots, he could not have been the "Lovelady" seen in Darnell striding west on the Elm Street extension with (Bill Shelley?). 

I await your positive identification of Gloria Calvery in Darnell at the steps, talking to Lovelady. As I pointed out before, she was so well acquainted with Bill Shelley that he was the best man at her wedding in July of 1963. (I don't know if Lovelady attended, or not.)

Incidentally, if Andrej is correct, then to Frazier's left in the Darnell frame we can see both Bill Shelley and the very top of Sarah Stanton's gray hairdo, immediately behind Shelley. 

(So who were the two men who bore some resemblance to Shelley and Lovelady, and, as seen in Darnell, were walking toward the rail yard and does it really matter?)

 

[Sandy Larsen]

6 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Sandy,

Sorry, I'm trying not to be so dogmatic, but I really don't remember your answer to the multiple lines of inquiry question above and it puzzles me.  If you'd answer once more, I'll make a real effort to remember it.

And your efforts to explain the Shelley and Lovelady appearances outside the TSBD really are appreciated!!!

 

Thanks Jim, I appreciate it. Just so you know, I wasn't angry with you. I was just making an observation. I understand that you have a POV that conflicts with mine. And I understand the need to defend a POV when a person feels strongly about it.

I'll answer your question in a separate post.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Jim,

Here is a Darnell frame showing the supposed Shelley and supposed Lovelady walking toward the railroad tracks together:
 

 

Jim,

I forgot to mention that I have a later segment of this scene that shows these two characters splitting up. I can't post it here because the file is too large (1 or 2 MB). But if you (or anybody else) would like, I can e-mail it to you.

(I have Jim's e-mail address. If anybody else would like to see the clip, please PM your e-mail address to me.)

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 5/16/2019 at 8:36 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

We talked about this a few months ago, but, again, if the [Adams/Lovelady/Shelley] encounter was invented later, why did WC attorneys ask both Shelley and Lovelady about it just a few hours after Adams testified?

 

Jim,

Following is the chain of events as I believe it happened. I've listed all the steps so that you can tell me if and where it doesn't answer your question.

1. On 11/22/63, the DPD discovers in their interrogation of Oswald that he claims to have gone outside just before the presidential parade passed by. (Interrogation attendees noted that Oswald said he was outside with Shelley after lunch. Hosty's handwritten notes say specifically that Oswald went out to watch the parade.)
2. Not long afterward the FBI begins to formulate a story to cover up Oswald's being outside. This story has Officer Baker and Roy Truly seeing Oswald in the second floor lunchroom. The story is modified over time as necessary (e.g. their was/wasn't a coke involved).
3. In 1964 the WC begins finalizing the official story, which is to be based on the truth whenever possible. It incorporates the bogus second floor encounter.
4. The WC realizes that Vickie Adams' early descent down the stairs contradicts their narrative, specifically that Oswald descended the same steps to get to the second floor lunchroom. It's too late to change the lunchroom story. So they need to discredit Victoria Adams' testimony. Since there were multiple witnesses to her descent, they feel it is most convincing to discredit the timing of the event. They feel that the issue is important enough that they need to have multiple witnesses discredit the timing.
5. Lovelady and Shelley are talked into saying they entered the west TSBD door, but only after being outside several minutes after the shooting. They are told to say they saw Vickie exit the stairwell on the first floor. Vickie is likewise told to say she saw them as she exited the stairwell.
6. The WC lawyer who will be questioning Vickie, Shelley, and Lovelady, Mr. Belin, is briefed as to how the three are expected to testify. Belin outlines the questions he will ask. He expects them all to say they saw each other.
7. The attempt at getting the three witnesses to agree on the fake encounter failed. None was willing to say they saw the other. I suspect that the all wondered why they were being ask to point to someone else, as though they were being asked to implicate that person. The nearest the FBI/WC got to their goal was when Lovelady blurted out that he wasn't sure it was Vickie Adams that he saw. In the end the WC decides to alter Adams' testimony about the encounter and be done with it.

 

On 5/16/2019 at 8:36 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Do you think each man’s testimony and questioning was altered also?  That would have involved, I think, at least two or three different attorneys. 

 

Nope. Had they altered Lovelady's or Shelley's testimonies, surely they would have had them say that they saw Vickie.

The FBI probably saw Vickie as being the easiest one to intimidate. So it was her testimony that they altered.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

(So who were the two men who bore some resemblance to Shelley and Lovelady, and, as seen in Darnell, were walking toward the rail yard and does it really matter?)

 

Paul,

I don't think it matters who those two fellows walking toward the railroad tracks are. However, I do believe that their appearance in the film played a role in the cover up. I believe that the FBI studied the Darnell and Couch Films not only to aid in determining the official narrative, but also in developing fabrications they needed to support the official narrative.

I believe that the FBI chose Shelley, Lovelady, and Frazier to aid them in the cover up. They chose them because Shelley and Frazier were closest to Oswald, and Lovelady because he hung around Shelley a lot. (Honestly, I believe the FBI chose them primarily because they had all seen Oswald on the steps during the motorcade. But I know there are a lot of people who don't accept that Oswald was outside during the motorcade.)

I know this is a lot of speculation, but...

I believe that when the WC/FBI was fabricating the Adams/Shelley/Lovelady encounter, they reviewed the films and saw those two guys walking toward the railroad yard (the important thing being that the TSBD west door is there), and decided to build the Shelley/Lovelady story around them. That way the film would serve as corroboration for the story.

(Months earlier they had already fabricated the Oswald/Baker 2nd-floor encounter around the thought that Baker rushed into the TSBD right away after crossing Elm Street extension. That is what Darnell seems to show. In reality it only looks like Baker was rushing to go inside. I've already shown that that was only an illusion, here:)
 

 

Actually, my speculation about formulating Shelley's and Lovelady's trip to the TSBD west door does have some evidence supporting it. It is fairly involved and quite off topic so I won't go into it. I'll just say that it helps explain some odd things about Lovelady's shirt.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Sandy,

John A. saw the "Baker" clip, or one similar to it, some time ago and he told me that he didn't think the cop shown was Baker. From memory, he said something about Baker being stockier than this cop and being able to see Baker's parked motorcycle and that this image was probably taken after Baker was already inside. I'll try to remember to get a better description from him, but I looked up Baker's testimony and noticed this, indicating there were other cops around: 

SENATOR COOPER - Were there any officers that you saw near the School Book Depository when you went in?
Mr. BAKER - There was an officer working traffic on that corner, and Officer J. W. Williams was---
Mr. DULLES - By that corner you mean the corner of Elm and Houston?
Mr. BAKER - That is right, sir. J. W. Williams who is a motorcycle officer, was, I thought, over on the left-hand side of me, and he was right with me, but as I ran in this building, I found out that I was by myself. I didn't know where anybody went.

John has sent some updates to HarveyandLee.net that I'll try to get done before going over the Shelley and Lovelady business, but I do appreciate you covering this ground again.  More asap....
 

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 5/17/2019 at 3:17 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

"The reason I believe the TSBD was a CIA front is because a plan was apparently devised and carried out to allow gunmen to enter the building, shoot, and leave. It seems to me that that would have been a difficult thing to do at a normal place of business. CIA cover businesses are different. They can be compartmented with individuals and groups of individuals not knowing what each other is up to. So if something "different" happens, it doesn't raise eyebrows.

 

I haven't heard of that Paul. But I'd like to read about it... if there is evidence backing it up."

 

 

Sandy,

Have you read CIA Financial Analyst James B. Wilcott's classifed statements/interview with the HSCA? 

I had not. But in them, he claimed that 

"Among the close circle of friends with which I discussed all this openly, there was no doubt that Ruby was paid by CI*\ to do away with Oswald, and Oswald was a patsy . Information from other rather tight ; social circles would occasionally come our way and we would seise upon It and try to fit it into our own version of the scenario. There was no doubt that CIA was in "as thick as thieves" with the Dallas Police. Several different individuals or firms in Dallas had been Involved ♦ in one way or another with acting as cut-outs for arms shipment to * Cuban exiles for the Invasion. This we concluded from, putting various 

pieces people of information together. I remember hearing about some who had somehow helped the right-win.; Minute Men in Texas to get arms, originally intended for the invasion."

https://archive.org/stream/HSCAUnpublishedAndClassifiedInterviewsAndTestimony/HSCA Interview of James B Wilcott%2C 22 March 1978_djvu.txt

William Weston's articles "411 Elm Street" and "The Spider's Web: The Texas School Book Depository and the Dallas Conspiracy" make the provocative speculation that the TSBD was an important storage site for the CIA and their gun-running activities.  I've also included a pretty good interview with Weston and Jim Fetzer. Take a close look at what Weston has to say about the Lone Star Book Depository's move to Harry Hines Blvd. and the alternate motorcade route. (1:40:00 ish on the video.)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16259#relPageId=16&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16259#relPageId=7

 

 

[Guest]

On 5/17/2019 at 3:47 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Jim,

Here is a Darnell frame showing the supposed Shelley and supposed Lovelady walking toward the railroad tracks together:
 

 

That is Couch, not Darnell.

[Sandy Larsen]

59 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:

On 5/17/2019 at 8:47 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Jim,

Here is a Darnell frame showing the supposed Shelley and supposed Lovelady walking toward the railroad tracks together:
 

 

That is Couch, not Darnell. 

 

Thanks for the correction, Bart.

Jim, years ago one or more of our photo wizards (Chris Davidson?) stabilized and synchronized clips from the Darnell and Couch films and combined them into one very wide film. Back then I and others referred to the composite as Darnell/Couch. Sometimes I'd forget the "Couch" part when referring to the it and called it Darnell.

Anyway, just so you know, what I said earlier is still correct, that Lovelady can be seen both walking down the road and standing on the TSBD steps at the same time. I don't recall if you can see that by looking only at the composite, or if you need to look at both that and Couch. I just recall that it's easy to deduce.

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

On 5/18/2019 at 5:14 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Sandy,

John A. saw the "Baker" clip, or one similar to it, some time ago and he told me that he didn't think the cop shown was Baker. From memory, he said something about Baker being stockier than this cop and being able to see Baker's parked motorcycle and that this image was probably taken after Baker was already inside.

Yes, John mentioned that in an e-mail exchange we had not long ago.

I don't agree with John. The smart guys who time these films say that the motor cop ran across Elm St. extension about  20 to 30 seconds after the shooting. So if that guy isn't Baker and if Baker had already got off his bike, ran across the street, and entered the building, he must have been one helluva fast cop. Also, why do we see only one motorcycle parked out there, not two?

I do have a caveat for what I just said. Recall that earlier I said that I didn't believe Shelley and Lovelady walked to the railroad tracks. I also said that I have a suspicion that the WC/FBI used the Darnell and Couch films to help them create their narrative. They saw the two guys walking toward the railroad tracks and decided to have them be Shelley and Lovelady going to the tracks so they could enter the west door and have have their fake encounter with Vickie Adams. Similarly, it's conceivable that they saw the motor cop running across the extension and decided to make a fake story for Baker too. In other words, maybe the running cop in the film really wasn't Baker, but for some reason the FBI chose Baker to be the one to take on the roll of running right in and having his fake encounter with Oswald. (I don't think that's what happened. Just saying it's conceivable.)