Three Dallas Cops Who Probably Helped Frame Oswald on 11/22/63

[Jim Hargrove]

Captain W.R. Westbrook had possession of three critical pieces of “evidence” within minutes of J.D. Tippit’s murder:  the disappearing 2nd “Oswald” wallet allegedly found at Tenth and Patton, the Eisenhower-style jacket he and Mackey allegedly found under a car, and the .38 revolver allegedly used to kill Tippit.  Chain-of-custody for all three items is highly suspect.  Westbrook ordered a list of theater patrons be made which completely disappeared.  He could not believably account for much of his time that afternoon.  John Armstrong believes that Westbrook and Kenneth Croy were in a police car in the narrow driveway by the Tippit murder scene observed by Mrs. Holan and accounting for much of the eyewitness confusion at Tenth and Patton.  Since he had a desk job as personnel director at DPD headquarters, it is hard to understand why Westbrook was involved in all this detective work.  He even kept possession for more than an hour of the revolver allegedly taken from Oswald.  According to Larry Sneed, Westbrook became an advisor to the Saigon police in 1966, suggesting U.S. Intel connections.

Sgt. Gerry Hill, a former television reporter, was assigned to Capt. Westbrook’s personnel bureau.  He “discovered” the shells and the paper bag (which completely disappeared) on the sixth floor of the TSBD.  At the theater, he climbed up to the balcony and may have been involved with the Oswald look-alike apparently arrested there and released.  In a police car leaving the theater, Hill, with other DPD officers, examined the “other” wallet of the “other” Oswald, which, surprise!, also had Hidell identification.  He brought the .38 revolver allegedly taken from Oswald to Westbrook’s personnel office, where it remained for more than an hour.  Before anyone else announced the story, just hours after the assassination, Hill went on television and related the saga of Oswald’s defection and how he married Marina, a Russian woman from Minsk. When asked how he knew all this information, he said he got it from Westbrook.

Reserve Officer Kenneth Croy appeared to have been the first Dallas cop on the scene after Tippit’s murder.  He claimed that an unknown person gave him the Tenth and Patton wallet with the Oswald and Hidell ID’s and claimed that he then gave the wallet to Westbrook.  He claimed to have interviewed several witnesses at the scene, but didn’t take any of their names or remember much about them.  He claimed he was told by unidentified DPD employees that he wasn't needed for the rest of the day and then went to have lunch with his estranged wife. A couple of days later, he stood next to Jack Ruby when Ruby lunged forward and shot Oswald.  He may have helped Ruby enter the building.  Reading his WC testimony, it is obvious how suspicious the WC was in regard to his actions, at least in relation to Jack Ruby.

I tried to keep this as brief as possible.  Comments would be appreciated.

 

[Rick McTague]

Jim,

Did you intentionally leave off Roscoe White?  I know he wasn't an official policeman on the force but he sure helped frame LHO, especially in the story of Mike Robinson.  If true, he was one who killed JD Tippit which certainly helped frame LHO.  I'd be interested in your take on Roscoe White.

Thanks

Rick

[Denis Morissette]

Add Patrick Dean. Beverly Oliver says she saw him on the grassy knoll after the shooting.

[Steve Thomas]

Jim,

 

All of the officers who drove Oswald from the theater back downtown gathered together in the personnel office to compare notes and write up their reports on what happened.

Maybe the personnel office was the only one big enough to accommodate everyone at the same time - maybe it was something else.

Initially, they wrote up joint reports, but it was decided that the reports should be individually signed. These individual reports that you find in Box 2 of the DPD Archives were all dated December 2nd and 3rd - a week after the incident. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm

Mr. BELIN. Where did you put the initials?
Mr. CARROLL. Where was I, or where did I put the initials on the pistol?
Mr. BELIN. Where were you?
Mr. CARROLL. I was in the personnel office of the city of Dallas police department.
Mr. BELIN. With Sergeant Hill?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, and others who were present.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walker_c.htm

(C.T. Walker)

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you, did you have anything to do on November 22, or anything more to do on November 22, with either the Tippit shooting or investigation or apprehension of Oswald or the assassination of the President's investigation?
Mr. WALKER. No. I stayed down in Captain Westbrook's office for a while until I got off.

Mr. BELIN. Were you asked ever to make a report of any conversation you had with him?
Mr. WALKER. No; they called me on the phone a couple of days after, and some supervisor asked me, there had been a rumor got out that Oswald had said, "Well, I got me a President and a cop. I should have got me two more." Or something like that. But that conversation was never said, because I was with him from the time that he was arrested until the time the detectives took him over. I made a written report on the arrest about a week after it happened, and that is the only conversation I had with anyone.

Mr. BELIN. In that report you didn't put any conversation that Oswald had, did you?
Mr. WALKER. No; I didn't put any conversation. I just put the details of the arrest.
Mr. BELIN. Were you asked just to make a report on your arrest of Oswald?
Mr. WALKER. That is normal procedure, just what we call a "Dear Chief" letter. Just describe the arrest and other officers involved, and we never did put what conversation we had.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm

And we said, "Captain, we will save you a trip," or words to that effect, "Because there he sits."
And with that, we relinquished our prisoner to the homicide and robbery bureau, to Captain Fritz.
… they were fixing to have to make a whole bushel basket of reports--we adjourned to the personnel office, which was further down the hall from homicide and I sat down and started to try to organize the first report on the arrest.
I originally had the heading on it, "Injuries sustained by suspect while effecting his arrest in connection with the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit," and a few minutes later Captain Westbrook came in the office and said that our suspect had admitted being a Communist. This is strictly hearsay. I did not hear it myself.
He himself also said a few minutes later he had previously been in the Marine Corps, had a dishonorable discharge, had been to Russia, and had had some trouble with the police in New Orleans for passing out pro-Castro literature.
This still is all hearsay because I didn't actually hear it firsthand myself.

And at about this point Captain Westbrook suggested that I change the heading of my report to include arrest of the suspect in the assassination of the President and in the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit, which I did.
I originally wrote the report for Bob Carroll's signature and for my signature, and left it with the captain to be typed while we moved over in another office to get a cup of coffee and sort of calm down and recap the events.

The exact location of the officers and who was there on the original arrest and everything, and we were waiting around for the secretary to finish the report.
When we got it back ready to sign, Carroll and I were sitting there, and it had Captain Westbrook's name for signature, and added a paragraph about he and the FBI agent being there, and not seeing that it made any difference, I went ahead and signed the report.
Actually, they were there, but I didn't make any corrections.
And as far as the report, didn't allege what they did, but had added a paragraph to our report to include the fact that he was there, and also that the FBI agent was there.
Now as to why this was done, your guess is as good as mine.

Mr. HILL. This was later when they wanted a report from each individual officer. Yes, sir; I did write this.
Mr. BELIN. You are referring to a report dated what?
Mr. HILL This would have been dated November 22, sir, and it is signed by Captain Westbrook and Bob Carroll and myself. I do not have it with me, but in case it is not in there, I have a carbon copy of it with all three signatures on it.

The report that Hill speaks of that is signed by himself, Carroll, and Westbrook is not in the records.

Hill's report is individually signed, and is dated December 3rd.

"But as far an another report, other than the original report that afternoon on the arrest of the suspect, I don't recall writing any other report after that one report that was signed by Carroll and I and Captain Westbrook is the only one I wrote on the actual arrest.
Mr. BELIN. I see one 2-page report that is signed by you.
Mr. HILL. Can I look at it?
Mr. BELIN. You bet you can.
[Handing to witness.]
Mr. HILL. This was later when they wanted a report from each individual officer. Yes, sir; I did write this."

Mr. BELIN. Did you talk to Walker after he left the interrogation room?
Mr. HILL. Talked to Walker after he left the interrogation room. He came into the personnel office with us, and we sat down and made sure that--we just talked over our story and made sure that we had all the details as to who was where in the arrest,... and decided, well, rather than have to get everybody back together and round them up and all six or seven people sign the one report, it was decided that Carroll and I would be the only two that signed it,... .

DPD Archives Box 2, Folder# 7 Item# 4, page 2

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm

Report by Paul Bentley:

 

Steve Thomas
 

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

4 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

Jim,

Did you intentionally leave off Roscoe White?  I know he wasn't an official policeman on the force but he sure helped frame LHO, especially in the story of Mike Robinson.  If true, he was one who killed JD Tippit which certainly helped frame LHO.  I'd be interested in your take on Roscoe White.

Thanks

Rick

Whoever killed J.D. Tippit bore at least a passing resemblance to the "Oswald" later arrested at the Texas Theater. This is not to suggest it was the same man, only that the two men looked somewhat alike.

(Roscoe White didn't much look like "Oswald" at all really, although it's not impossible he was somehow connected to the creation of the mysterious, infamous backyard photos.) 

The most likely suspect in the Tippit slaying was the same man who for at least two months prior, had been running all over Dallas and saying and doing conspicuously strange things - sure to be remembered later - in an "Oswaldian" fashion, yet could not have been our "Oswald"!

Remember, the Warren Commission was forced to conclude that all of these sightings, and I mean all of them, were in fact, not related to our "Oswald", even those that involved conversations such as "I might have to go back to Russia to buy a car." 

In other words, the Tippit killer was also the same "Oswald" impersonator from the previous two months. 

And that person was, as his brother Robert disingenuously wrote in his book, the real Lee Harvey Oswald. Robert's anguish over his brother's complicity in the assassination and Tippit's murder was genuine but Robert was incredibly cryptic and deceptive about precisely of whom he was writing. He knew perfectly well that his words would implicate the innocent man shot to death by Jack Ruby, the man married to Marina, the man we know as "Oswald", the infamous patsy,  when in fact Robert was writing about his guilty biological brother who was never caught.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe

[Jim Hargrove]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Mr. HILL. This was later when they wanted a report from each individual officer. Yes, sir; I did write this.
Mr. BELIN. You are referring to a report dated what?
Mr. HILL This would have been dated November 22, sir, and it is signed by Captain Westbrook and Bob Carroll and myself. I do not have it with me, but in case it is not in there, I have a carbon copy of it with all three signatures on it.

The report that Hill speaks of that is signed by himself, Carroll, and Westbrook is not in the records.

Interesting that Hill volunteered to produce a carbon copy with all three signatures of the 11/22/63 report that apparently vanished.  Isn't it amazing that no one on the WC was interested, apparently, in seeing that vanished report signed by three Dallas cops! 

I'm not really convinced that Sgt. Hill was a conspirator. He may just have been used by Westbrook, his boss.

Steve--Are you aware of any other references to that 11/22 report?  

[Jim Hargrove]

7 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

Jim,

Did you intentionally leave off Roscoe White?  I know he wasn't an official policeman on the force but he sure helped frame LHO, especially in the story of Mike Robinson.  If true, he was one who killed JD Tippit which certainly helped frame LHO.  I'd be interested in your take on Roscoe White.

Thanks

Rick

Rick,

I left Roscoe White off the list because I’m not aware of ANY reference to where he was or what he was doing on the day JFK was assassinated.  Do you have any info on that?

Also, I don’t think he killed J.D. Tippit, regardless of young Robinson's story.  I agree completely with the post above by Paul Jolliffe.

But your overall suspicion seems well grounded.  After all,  Roscoe White’s connection with one of the Lee Harvey Oswalds goes all the way back to the U.S. Marines (where he knew American-born LEE Oswald), and he was clearly directly involved with the fraudulent “backyard photos.”

Any not-well-known additional info you have on Roscoe White would be most appreciated.

[Denny Zartman]

20 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Any not-well-known additional info you have on Roscoe White would be most appreciated.

Sorry to butt in, but I gathered a little bit of info on Roscoe White a few weeks ago, most well known but some might not be. I'll summarize it below, but the detail and sources can be read in this post on this thread: Jim Marr's comments on the James Files story: Has any of it been debunked?

• There seems to be a link between White, Oswald, and a secret CIA invasion force 1957 in Subic Bay, the Philippines.
• Roscoe White apparently had a connection to New Orleans, Louisiana.
• Roscoe White started work with the Dallas Police Department on October 7, 1963, less than two weeks before Oswald was hired at the TSBD and less than two months before the JFK assassination.
• It seems that Roscoe White owned a 7.65 Mauser rifle, the same type as was first identified as the assassination rifle on the sixth floor of the TSBD.
• Apparently Roscoe White was a skilled rifleman that specialized in surveying sites for target shooting.

As for where he was and what he was doing on November 22, 1963. I don't know. That's a good question. Since it was the middle of the day on a Friday, I assume that he was probably at work somewhere in the Dallas Police Department. One source (skeptical of White) says it's "established" (where and by whom I don't know) he worked at the DPD as a photographer, another source says that there was no official record of where or what division White worked in.

[Ron Bulman]

10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

bellCaptain W.R. Westbrook had possession of three critical pieces of “evidence” within minutes of J.D. Tippit’s murder:  the disappearing 2nd “Oswald” wallet allegedly found at Tenth and Patton, the Eisenhower-style jacket he and Mackey allegedly found under a car, and the .38 revolver allegedly used to kill Tippit.  Chain-of-custody for all three items is highly suspect.  Westbrook ordered a list of theater patrons be made which completely disappeared.  He could not believably account for much of his time that afternoon.  John Armstrong believes that Westbrook and Kenneth Croy were in a police car in the narrow driveway by the Tippit murder scene observed by Mrs. Holan and accounting for much of the eyewitness confusion at Tenth and Patton.  Since he had a desk job as personnel director at DPD headquarters, it is hard to understand why Westbrook was involved in all this detective work.  He even kept possession for more than an hour of the revolver allegedly taken from Oswald.  According to Larry Sneed, Westbrook became an advisor to the Saigon police in 1966, suggesting U.S. Intel connections.

Sgt. Gerry Hill, a former television reporter, was assigned to Capt. Westbrook’s personnel bureau.  He “discovered” the shells and the paper bag (which completely disappeared) on the sixth floor of the TSBD.  At the theater, he climbed up to the balcony and may have been involved with the Oswald look-alike apparently arrested there and released.  In a police car leaving the theater, Hill, with other DPD officers, examined the “other” wallet of the “other” Oswald, which, surprise!, also had Hidell identification.  He brought the .38 revolver allegedly taken from Oswald to Westbrook’s personnel office, where it remained for more than an hour.  Before anyone else announced the story, just hours after the assassination, Hill went on television and related the saga of Oswald’s defection and how he married Marina, a Russian woman from Minsk. When asked how he knew all this information, he said he got it from Westbrook.

Reserve Officer Kenneth Croy appeared to have been the first Dallas cop on the scene after Tippit’s murder.  He claimed that an unknown person gave him the Tenth and Patton wallet with the Oswald and Hidell ID’s and claimed that he then gave the wallet to Westbrook.  He claimed to have interviewed several witnesses at the scene, but didn’t take any of their names or remember much about them.  He claimed he was told by unidentified DPD employees that he wasn't needed for the rest of the day and then went to have lunch with his estranged wife. A couple of days later, he stood next to Jack Ruby when Ruby lunged forward and shot Oswald.  He may have helped Ruby enter the building.  Reading his WC testimony, it is obvious how suspicious the WC was in regard to his actions, at least in relation to Jack Ruby.

I tried to keep this as brief as possible.  Comments would be appreciated.

 

Westbrook's the key in these three to me.  But he had a boss besides Curry in this I'd think.  Who?  Never seen an organizational chart on the DPD at the time.  But doesn't the Police Department ultimately answer to the Mayor?  The brother of fired by JFK General Charles Cabell, assistant director of the CIA after the bay of pigs?  Mayor Earle Cabell, the we now know finally CIA asset since 1956.  The one who attended Zuroma (mafia) club Thursday night dinner/poker (illegal) meetings with Sheriff Bill Decker, Campisi, Civello.  Which also makes for convenient connections in having Ruby off Oswald.   Was Mayor Cabell a key figure in the big picture?  If so there's gotta be a cut out between Westbrook and Cabell. 

[James DiEugenio]

MIlo Reech over at DPF has been doing some excellent work on the Tippit case.  For awhile him and David Josephs were really banging it out like tom tom drums.

First off, he does not think Tatum was at the scene.

He also has  a hard time buying Benavides was really there when he said he was. 

Meanwhile,  I think the list of the above three is a pretty good one.  With Westbrook being the kingpin.  

IMO, the TIppit case has been broken open.  The people most responsible for that are McBride, Armstrong and Simpich.

It is amazing that the WC never asked the most obvious questions of those at the scene.  And they never discovered Doris Holan.  

But the most interesting question was if Nelson and Tippitt got the same order at 12: 45 to go to Oak Cliff, why did only Tippitt report there and not Nelson, who was clearly headed for Dealey Plaza?  And to top if off, why were they needed there if a cop was already at the location?

Take a look in the WC and see if these questions are asked, let alone answered.  Hint: Nelson did not even testify.

 

[John Butler]

Really interesting things here that I haven't seen before.  Thanks.

Second police car at Tippit shooting?

on Fri 10 Jan 2014, 3:44 am

More from Into the Nightmare:

"Dallas researcher Michael Brownlow interviewed Doris Holan, who lived directly across the street from the shooting, in a second-floor apartment at 409 East Tenth (researcher Bill Pulte accompanied Brownlow on one of his two interviews with Holan shortly before her death in 2000). She said that a police car had appeared in the driveway between the two houses (404 and 410 East Tenth) at the spot where Tippit was killed. Whether Tippit did so intentionally or coincidentally, he had blocked that driveway, which led to an alley at mid-block, parallel to both East Tenth and Jefferson Boulevard. Tippit, while driving eastward, may have been trying to use his squad car to prevent another police car from leaving the driveway. Holan said when she heard shots and looked out her window, the other police car was heading down the driveway approaching Tippit's vehicle.

... 'She saw a man leaving the scene, moving westward toward Patton... Near the (second) police car she also saw a man in the driveway walking toward the street, where Tippit's car was parked.' That man went up to where Tippit was lying, looked down to inspect the officer's head, and retreated back down the driveway, with the unidentified police car backing up at the same time to the alley. So Holan reported at least three suspicious men at the scene, including two men on foot and the driver of the second police car. Whoever killed Tippit may have fled in that car or in another vehicle or on foot through that alley adjacent to the shooting scene. And Tippit may have been shot by two men, a possibility the ballistics evidence, with different kinds of ammunition, might suggest, even though that evidence is unreliable. Most (not all) witnesses reported a man fleeing around the corner and up Patton toward Jefferson, which would be compatible with Holan's account.

...Michael Brownlow in 1970 found the other witness to the second police car, Sam Guinyard, a porter at a used-car lot at 501 East Jefferson who worked with Ted Calloway. Guinyard told the Commission that at the time of the shooting, he was standing 'at the  back (of the car lot), right at the alley back there' and about ten feet from Patton. Guinyard failed to mention the second police car when he gave that testimony...

(No further details about what Guinyard may have seen)

Frank Wright, who lived half a block east of the shooting, told reporter Earl Golz that he saw two men involved in the crime. But that was a belated addition to his earlier account of seeing one man drive off in a car. To Golz he mentioned another man fleeing on foot.

...independent researchers George and Patricia Nash ...in 1964... reported Wright telling them that after hearing the shots, he came out of his home at 501 East Tenth and saw Tippit hit the ground and roll over after being shot. Wright said he saw a man standing near Tippit, not holding a gun but wearing a  long coat (contrary to most other witnesses' description of a fleeing man wearing a light jacket), run away and drive off, alone, in a 'grey, little old coupe. It was about a 1950-51, maybe a Plymouth'.

 

 

Redfern

 

Posts : 98
Join date : 2013-08-27

•  
•  

Re: Second police car at Tippit shooting?

on Fri 10 Jan 2014, 7:00 am

[Rick McTague]

19 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Rick,

I left Roscoe White off the list because I’m not aware of ANY reference to where he was or what he was doing on the day JFK was assassinated.  Do you have any info on that?

Also, I don’t think he killed J.D. Tippit, regardless of young Robinson's story.  I agree completely with the post above by Paul Jolliffe.

But your overall suspicion seems well grounded.  After all,  Roscoe White’s connection with one of the Lee Harvey Oswalds goes all the way back to the U.S. Marines (where he knew American-born LEE Oswald), and he was clearly directly involved with the fraudulent “backyard photos.”

Any not-well-known additional info you have on Roscoe White would be most appreciated.

Jim,

I'm really glad Denny Z added in those bullets about Roscoe White - I am not aware of any further info on him.  I do recall that he joined the DPD in October 1963 I believe so he hadn't been with them too long.

I based my comment on Mike Robinson's story on this post, recalling what he overheard in the men's locker room bathroom, and who he saw when he came out. At least it does fill in a portion of where he was on 11/22/63.  It doesn't deem made up to me, but I am definitely not anywhere near being a researcher, just someone who wants the truths of this case to be exposed against the cover up.

Your work here and with Mr. Armstrong helps in that effort.

Thanks

[Micah Mileto]

On 4/1/2019 at 12:21 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Reserve Officer Kenneth Croy appeared to have been the first Dallas cop on the scene after Tippit’s murder.  He claimed that an unknown person gave him the Tenth and Patton wallet with the Oswald and Hidell ID’s and claimed that he then gave the wallet to Westbrook.  He claimed to have interviewed several witnesses at the scene, but didn’t take any of their names or remember much about them.  He claimed he was told by unidentified DPD employees that he wasn't needed for the rest of the day and then went to have lunch with his estranged wife. A couple of days later, he stood next to Jack Ruby when Ruby lunged forward and shot Oswald.  He may have helped Ruby enter the building.  Reading his WC testimony, it is obvious how suspicious the WC was in regard to his actions, at least in relation to Jack Ruby.

I tried to keep this as brief as possible.  Comments would be appreciated.

 

Didn't his former wife say that story was false?

[Jim Hargrove]

Micah,

I don't recall ever hearing that.  Do you have a reference to her denial?

[Jim Hargrove]

On 4/2/2019 at 2:09 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Meanwhile,  I think the list of the above three is a pretty good one.  With Westbrook being the kingpin.  

IMO, the TIppit case has been broken open.  The people most responsible for that are McBride, Armstrong and Simpich.

It is amazing that the WC never asked the most obvious questions of those at the scene.  And they never discovered Doris Holan.  

But the most interesting question was if Nelson and Tippitt got the same order at 12: 45 to go to Oak Cliff, why did only Tippitt report there and not Nelson, who was clearly headed for Dealey Plaza?  And to top if off, why were they needed there if a cop was already at the location?

I was talking to John A. on Monday and told him that I was planning to take the week off but couldn't even get through Monday morning because I was so obsessed with this case.  He thought that much of the reason is that we're actually making real progress in solving it, and I think he's right.