DR Costella's leaning lamppost

[John Butler]

Sit up and pay attention.  It is not over yet.

The next content problem in Z frame 157 is that of the two women in black clearly seen near the end of the pavement in Z frame 96.  I call them the Ladies in Black.  Z frame 96 and 147 were chosen because their color is about the same and are fairly clear when enlarged and are before and after the Gap.  They were also chosen because they are representative of the scenes showing the two women in black.  You can see these women from Z frame 58 to about Z frame 209. 

Z frame 147 is essentially the same as Z frame 157 in showing the two women in black.

The content problem in Z frame 157 is that these two women seen there are not in the Elsie Dorman film.  Since we can not have two versions of reality one film has to be wrong.  Or, both are wrong. 

Briefly, there is another content problem in these images.  In Zapruder Rosemary runs into the SW corner of Elm before her sister Linda.  In Elsie Dorman Linda runs into the SW corner before Rosemary.  They run into the SW corner before Phil, their dad shows up.  He is not in the Dorman film. 

There is one last problem to deal with later.  Here is a contrast lightened view of the mosaic scenes for better viewing.

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Sit up and pay attention.  It is not over yet.

Really. That's how you want to address us.

The next content problem in Z frame 157 is that of the two women in black clearly seen near the end of the pavement in Z frame 96.  I call them the Ladies in Black.  Z frame 96 and 147 were chosen because their color is about the same and are fairly clear when enlarged and are before and after the Gap.  They were also chosen because they are representative of the scenes showing the two women in black.  You can see these women from Z frame 58 to about Z frame 209. 

Z frame 147 is essentially the same as Z frame 157 in showing the two women in black.

The content problem in Z frame 157 is that these two women seen there are not in the Elsie Dorman film.  Since we can not have two versions of reality one film has to be wrong.  Or, both are wrong. 

Your version of reality is alot different than ours.

Briefly, there is another content problem in these images.  In Zapruder Rosemary runs into the SW corner of Elm before her sister Linda.  In Elsie Dorman Linda runs into the SW corner before Rosemary.  They run into the SW corner before Phil, their dad shows up.  He is not in the Dorman film. 

Maybe Phil is in front of the black dressed waving lady on the curb and just out of view in Dorman.

There is one last problem to deal with later.  Here is a contrast lightened view of the mosaic scenes for better viewing.

The mosaic fails to show the last part of Dorman.

Once you realize this, you can take that part and lighten, stabilize, look through the tree then create a gif which shows someone in black waving (red box).

Then you can match up the common people in the gif, along with Z, and learn that you were wrong about perspective again.

btw, that's probably Croft at far right walking to his location. Think that might create a timing problem?

 

 

 

If it was me, I would think differently and realize I now have a sync point between two films and use that to show there are problems with the Z film.

But, I'm not holding my breath that you will heed the advice, so I did it myself years ago.

You were offered advice by others to go back and research some of this stuff.

Oh well!!!!!

[Ray Mitcham]

Once again Butler gets it wrong. Look at the film @ 33secs in the Dorman film, and you will see the two the two women and their shadows and to their left (Right of frame) the  two men and their shadows seen in the Dorman film mosaic shown above.

Dorman frame @ 33secs

Mosaic shown above.

You really do have problems, John.

Re Rosemary and Linda, the Dorman film is too indistinct to show whether Rosemary or Linda made the South West Corner of Elm Street, (wherever that may be.)

John, when in a hole stop digging..

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Ray Mitcham

[Robin Unger]

Linda Willis in Dorman.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Dorman frame showing the limo turning into Elm st.

[Robin Unger]

Rosemary Willis in Dorman.

[Robin Unger]

Martin film showing Rosemary Willis, Rosemary's location can be used to sync Martin to Dorman and Zapruder

Edited May 31, 2019 by Robin Unger

[John Butler]

Robin,

Thanks for those frames.  I don't think I have the ones of the limousine turning into the intersection.  Good catch on the camera.  I have done some work that suggests there are more than 30 people who filmed that day and we have no record of what they filmed.

I hate to disagree, but the second person to the west has long, dark hair and the Willis girls don't,  and IMO is not Linda Willis.  This first person could be Linda Willis since she has the general appearance of Linda seen in earlier frames.  I was going to post a few, but you have already done so.

You say the little girl in yellow in the frames posted is Linda rather than Rosemary.  Well, then where is Rosemary.  I think Rosemary is the small girl in a yellow jacket which could be a color problem for a white jacket, actually in the highlights the coat is white.  And, in the last frame it is white.  Rosemary had on a white coat.  The older, taller girl in front of Rosemary is Linda her sister.

In Dorman, Linda (not the mysterious camera woman) precedes Rosemary into the SW corner of Elm and Houston.  It is the other way in Zapruder.

We can't have it both ways.  I know you folks need only some kind of argument, right or wrong, to challenge someone and when that doesn't work you can join the Mitcham Gang with personal attacks.

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Once again Butler gets it wrong. Look at the film @ 33secs in the Dorman film, and you will see the two the two women and their shadows and to their left (Right of frame) the  two men and their seen in the Dorman film mosaic shown above.

Dorman frame @ 33secs

Mosaic shown above.

You really do have problems, John.

Re Rosemary and Linda, the Dorman film is too indistinct to show whether Rosemary or Linda made the South West Corner of Elm Street, (wherever that may be.)

John, when in a hole stop digging..

 

I don't have any problems Ray.  But, you do with this silly, pathetic, and deceptive post.  Do you know how stupid this is?  If not just look at what I am posting.  A 184 X 80 resolution image cannot tell you anything informative.

You can't enlarge the images you posted.  All you get is blurred pixelation.

Yep.  I am digging a hole.  Right through your disinformation garbage.  And, this post has a very unpleasant smell.  Please stop posting nonsense.

The SW corner of Elm and Houston is shown very well and it is your own ignorance and malicious desire to prove me wrong on anything.  Get a life Ray.  Go outside for a while and get out or your basement computer place.  Take a vacation.

[John Butler]

Davidson,

"Really. That's how you want to address us."

Yes, absolutely.  It is kinder than the things you and others have said.

"Your version of reality is alot different than ours."

Absolutely true.  I don't really know what version of fantasy / reality you folks are in.

"Maybe Phil is in front of the black dressed waving lady on the curb and just out of view in Dorman. "

And, then again maybe not.  I can find no identifiable male of Phil's age and description in the Dorman film.  And, I damn sure can't find one with a super leg as shown in Z 157.

"The mosaic fails to show the last part of Dorman.

Once you realize this, you can take that part and lighten, stabilize, look through the tree then create a gif which shows someone in black waving (red box).

Then you can match up the common people in the gif, along with Z, and learn that you were wrong about perspective again.

btw, that's probably Croft at far right walking to his location. Think that might create a timing problem?"

I don't need to show the last part of Dorman.  In the next post I will need to do that. 

If Phil Willis and Croft are in the Dorman film that really would be a timing problem.  But, in reality they were leaving the intersection of Main and Houston moving towards the SW corner of Elm and Houston.  They have to be there and probably arrived during the Zapruder Gap.  Elsie Dorman said she quit filming before the presidential limousine turned into the intersection.  So, for the two to be there in Dorman is nonsensical.  Dorman is closer to the first 132 frames before the Zapruder Gap. 

You really need to quit posting these deceptive .gifs.  What you are describing as people seen through the trees is just gaps in the branches showing shadowed areas.  There is nothing in the red box except gaps between branches and dark shadows.

Yo, Ray that's your cue to jump in here and talk about your shadows and "two pole experiment"

"If it was me, I would think differently and realize I now have a sync point between two films and use that to show there are problems with the Z film.

But, I'm not holding my breath that you will heed the advice, so I did it myself years ago.

You were offered advice by others to go back and research some of this stuff."

Absolutely, I will think differently.  I don't need a sync point to discuss whether people are there or not.  You can use the mosaic or go back to the individuals frames which I have done in a prior time.  The mosaic, although not completely accurate, serves to make the point.

Pardon all this black and red type.  It is not me it is the forum software. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by John Butler

[Robin Unger]

Gary Mack confirmed that this was Linda.

He said that she donated the gold colored dress to the 6th floor museum.

Speculation is that Linda was most likely shouting to Rosemary to come back, and to stop running after the limo ?

[Robin Unger]

[John Butler]

Robin,

I have no disagreement with what you said there.  Linda has on a blue top and  goldish skirt or dress.  Rosemary has on a white jacket.  In Zapruder, she precedes Linda and Linda stops and shouts at her or takes a photo IMO.

Our disagreement is over who runs into the SW corner of Elm and Houston first.  Either one depending on the film.

Phil is in the street about to take a step backwards.  I don't find him in Elsie Dorman, but do find Linda and Rosemary.  It is possible being youngsters and Phil being middle aged and a war victim that he got there later.

[John Butler]

3 minutes ago, Robin Unger said:

Doesn't seem to be the same view or perspective.  Also, the black and white is from a higher perspective than the color Dorman.  They don't seem to match.  The Dorman perspective looks as if it is almost at street level.  Your opinion would be appreciated.

[Robin Unger]

I am sure that  Rosemary arrived at the south west position before Linda.

In the Zapruder film around frame 200 she is standing on the grass.

I think Phil moved further down elm st where he eventually snapped Willis 6