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There’s No Comparison Between Donald Trump and John F. Kennedy


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2 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Yes, it was an absurd idea when the suggestion was posted on this forum.  I mean, seriously... ?  Trump is like a toddler playing with the remote control.

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Merit Based Immigration. Strong support for 2nd Amendment. Life Membership in the NRA. Extreme vetting for asylum seekers. Seeking peace with Cuba then, North Korea now. Planning to withdraw from Vietnam, promising to withdraw from "endless wars." Both campaigned on strengthening the military and both did just that. Both slashed CORPORATE as well as individual taxes dramatically. Similar policies, very different styles. The claim that there exists ZERO comparisons between the two is demonstrably false no matter how much you may hate Donald Trump.

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Edited by Greg Burnham
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People believe want they want to believe. It is just amazing how much dis information is out there and accepted as fact. Many still think the Mueller  exonerated Trump, that he did not lay out multiple crimes. Mueller did use the word exonerate but only to state that they could NOT exonerate him. Mueller said if they found Trump was innocent he would have said so and exonerated Trump. But Mueller said we CANNOT exonerate him. 
Muller laid out multiple cases of obstruction which Barr misrepresented so badly that 1000 former federal DOJ members signed an open letter saying Barr lied and there is so much evidence of obstruction that it is not even a close call. All 1000, both republicans and Democrats, said if Trump was not currently the sitting president they would have indicted him.
Mueller also at said that part of the reason he did not find enough evidence on collusion/conspiracy is because many witness took the 5th, others lied and were prosecuted for the lies. Trump also obstructed the investigation and many witness were Russians outside the country who did not honor the subpoenas.
 Barr also lied when he said Mueller failed to come to a conclusion on indictment and left it up to Barr. That was a lie. Barr also said he did not get Muellers reason for not making a decision on indictment. But Muellers decision was based on DOJ guidelines. Barr is the Attorney General and he does not know the DOJ guidelines?
 I am stating all this because many Trump supporters either have no clue about these facts or ignore them. But there is a place the Trump supports usually trust and that is Fox news. So I suggest Trump supports who are unaware of the facts or think it is fake news simply watch Fox news folks like Judge Napolitano or Shep Smith, Bret Baier, or Chris Wallace. Unlike the Fox opinion side these folks are stating the truth about the Mueller report. I hope the die hard supporters will accept the facts that come straight from Fox News.
A good example of disinformation  occurred when a member of Mueller's team, FBI agent Struck got caught sending anti Trump emails to the woman he was having an affair with. Makes him sound like a bias Clinton lover right? Well Fox never reported that he had other emails bashing Chelsea Clinton and Eric Holder. Many in law enforcement have disdain for ALL politicians cause they lie so much.  He was not the Clinton lover he was made out to be.
 At this time in history it is crucial that we take the time to learn the true facts and become informed voters. Both side have their bubbles but I think it is time for die hard Trump supporters to accept the truth of this presidency. Please watch Shep Smith and Judge Napolitano and be open to the harsh truth they convey.

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1 hour ago, Greg Burnham said:

Merit Based Immigration.

Trump calls for the end of "chain migration" which allows the entrance of family members; Kennedy encouraged the re-uniting of family members.

Would John F. Kennedy ever have enforced a policy of tearing children from the arms of their mother?

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Strong support for 2nd Amendment.

The 2nd Amendment calls for a "well-regulated militia."  Would JFK have thought that allowing semi-automatic weapons with 100-round clips "well-regulated"?

How many mass shootings occurred during his Administration? 

Presidents and Mass Shootings

https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/presidents-and-mass-shootings

The first mass shooting in the collective American memory was the University of Texas at Austin shooting in August 1966. The shooter, armed with six weapons and ensconced at the top of the University of Texas Tower, killed 17 people, wounding more than 30 others. As this was the first high-profile mass shooting in American history, President Lyndon Johnson had no precedents to look to in order to help determine his reaction.

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Life Membership in the NRA.

In 1963 the NRA wasn't a right-wing money machine investing millions in the election of Republican politicians.

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Extreme vetting for asylum seekers.

Wow!  You're really going to go there?  Okay...

Kennedy was concerned with Communist infiltration.  Trump is concerned with non-white people entering our country.  The people seeking asylum on our southern border are fleeing the violence of drug cartels which only exist because of the American appetite for drugs, and the American prohibitions against that appetite.

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Seeking peace with Cuba then, North Korea now.

Obama initiated an opening to Cuba which Trump is now cracking down on. 

Trump wants something from Kim Jong Un -- a hacker attack on American election systems.

Trump is hoping to recruit both Vladimir Putin and KJU to help him get re-elected.

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Planning to withdraw from Vietnam, promising to withdraw from "endless wars."

Trump is pushing toward war with Iran.  I'm surprised you're not up on this, Greg, since it's been in all the papers...

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Both campaigned on strengthening the military and both did just that.

Kicking trans people out of the military didn't strengthen anything.  Diverting funds appropriated for military housing to a vanity-project border wall didn't strengthen anything.  Advocating the torture of prisoners of war doesn't strengthen the fates of Americans who may be captured in war.  Pushing for war in the Mideast isn't going to strengthen anything.

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Both slashed CORPORATE as well as individual taxes dramatically.

Trump cut the top tax rate from 36% to 31%.  Middle class tax rates were cut .5%. 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/18/16791174/republican-tax-bill-congress-conference-tax-policy-center

The Republican tax bill got worse: now the top 1% gets 83% of the gains

By 2027, more than half of all Americans — 53 percent — would pay more in taxes under the tax bill agreed to by House and Senate Republicans, a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center finds. That year, 82.8 percent of the bill’s benefit would go to the top 1 percent, up from 62.1 under the Senate bill.

And even in the first years of the bill's implementation, when it’s an across-the-board tax cut, the benefits of the law would be heavily concentrated among the upper-middle and upper-class Americans, with nearly two-thirds of the benefit going to the richest fifth of Americans in 2018.

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Since when is a .5% tax cut "dramatic"?

 

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Similar policies, very different styles.

Pure unadulterated bullshed.

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The claim that there exists ZERO comparisons between the two is demonstrably false no matter how much you may hate Donald Trump.

Your argument is demonstrably specious.

Face it, Greg, Trump is a climate change denier and so are you.

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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1 hour ago, Greg Burnham said:

Now I remember why I stopped posting here.

It was good to see you for one post, but I too was surprised at the content. I couldn’t disagree more. 

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18 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

It was good to see you for one post, but I too was surprised at the content. I couldn’t disagree more. 

I was surprised by Greg's comments, as well.

I would have thought he'd know better.

Some of us relish challenging posts; the more sensitive types get out of the kitchen.

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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7 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

Trump doesn''t really belong on this forum. Come to think of it, he doesn't belong anywhere on this planet.

 

 

Yeah, but.  If people are going to try to compare Trump to JFK I personally think this theory should be discussed and proven untrue.  It's not about Trump bashing.  It's about the facts.  Different times, personalities.  Different Ideals regarding what the USA is and should be.  JFK was about making it work for all of us, promoting Democracy and Peace around the world.  Trump, not so much IMO. 

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As you point out Cliff, in some cases Greg is either suspended  in time, ignoring the change that has happened to our society or our institutions. Affiliation with NRA, 2nd Amendment, availability of automatic weapons.

Some of his points was pro military political rhetoric to get elected,  which should be taken in context, such as JFK outflanking Nixon on Cuba before the debates.

He actually speaks of Cuba, not knowing that Obama has reversed a half century old national harassing of Cuba only to have Trump reverse that for no other reason than to reverse Obama's policies.

Similarly the reversing of  the treaty with Iran, that put off their nuclear weapon capability. As far as North Korea, Ok, I'll  concede at least it's better to talk with him.

He ignores U.S. complicity with the Saudis in genocide in Yemen.

and that Trump has increased drone strikes over Obama in the Middle East.

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I have imagined Elizabeth Warren as the Democratic party's candidate against Trump in 2020.

It took an unprecedented huge turnout of women, black and younger voters in 2008 and 2012 for the Democrats to prevail over the always powerfully financed and organized Republican party machine ( which I always look at as the party of the 1% ) and which didn't happen in 2016 in just enough key electoral states even though Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by over 3 million.

That and two Republican candidates with weak VP candidates who didn't come close to grabbing and inciting the larger white male Republican base as much as fiery race baiting demagogue Donald Trump did.

Donald Trump shamelessly went right to the hottest anger and insecurity issues of this base which are of course race, immigration and even a backlash against women empowerment groups and movements.

Trump enthusiastically fed this anger and insecurity the raw red verbal meat his base had been craving and had never seen before from a presidential candidate.

And did so in their own more common rough edged language.

Kick these GD illegals out of our country! 

Stand up for white America versus black for once!  

And the same with these never ending equal power demanding, man hating and threatening women's rights groups!

Screw these people!  Screw Rosie O'Donnell!  Screw Oprah and Al Sharpton!  Screw the illegal immigrant loving liberals!

YOU TELL EM DONNIE BABY!      RIGHT ON!

And SHOUT these things over and over with the same outraged tone of white working class American males who have been harboring these angers and frustrations for decades.

The same massive angry white audience Rush Limbaugh and Fox News have been coddling and inciting for decades.

Yes, Trump was a candidate who finally talked less like a phony polite politician and more like a World Wrestling Federation tough guy ( think Hulk Hogan, Triple H , the Undertaker, etc ) with steroidal hyped up braggadocio shouting, taunting and insulting of his political opponent/ring mates.

And it seems this type of body slam speaking delivery is exactly what was needed to truly turn on the working class bulk of the angry Repub base.

Remember Trump's bullying and demeaning taunts to Jeb Bush during the 2016 nationally televised debates?

"Your WEAK Jeb...WEAK."

And when Jeb Bush brought up and praised his mother Barbara in the debates, Trump responded derogatorily ..."maybe your mother should be running." And later at one of his rally's Trump mocked Jeb Bush with "Mommy please come ... walk in the snow."

How about "Little Marco" or "ugly" Carly Fiorina?  Same thing.

So, this is what Elizabeth Warren would be up against if she is the Dem choice in 2020 against Donald Trump -  the Bully In Chief.

This and the angry, huge vote number white man wrath that Trump ( and in deeper reality the 1% ) has corralled and worked up into a blind loyalty vote and support frenzy.

The question will be - can Warren stand up to Trump and this angry white America WWF bully type assault and hold her own?

And will our nation's women, blacks, young people and other diverse groups rally around her and defend her and get out and vote for her in sufficient Obama type numbers needed to overcome this well organized and massively financed angry white American voter base juggernaut ... or mob?

Edited by Joe Bauer
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And there is no equal comparison of Trump to JFK.

To any degree.

In every way JFK makes Trump look like an ignorant, delusional and laughable fool.

An emotionally stunted, insecure and unbalanced clown.

An unethically motivated person to the corrupt extreme.

Stupendously self-centered.

JFK was an emotionally healthy, balanced and educated man who read.

A man who was curious about human history, struggle, achievement and potential and what was truly in the best interest of humanity.

A man who felt a responsibility in effecting these progressive dynamics in his role as President, not just here in America but worldwide, even when it meant standing up to the most powerful and wealthy special interest groups and government agencies who opposed him domestically.

Trump is the opposite.

A uneducated incurious man who simply doesn't read.

A man that has never cared about nor contemplated the broader historical humanity things JFK had. 

Instead Trump is clearly more a man of the here and now and instant impulse gratification need.

Someone seemingly 75 % fixated on public attention and adulation, self aggrandizement and how much money he is worth or makes and/or feels he has made for others in this country.

With the other 25% a mix of weird who knows what including his love of powerful dictators and the attractiveness or unattractiveness of women ( his daughter's beauty a main interest ) and who his enemies are and how much they are trying to bring him down and what he can say or do to get back at them.

Some day soon I think this true reality of this dangerously flawed man as our highest elective office holder will become common knowledge in our societal discourse and understanding.

And Trump will go down in history as perhaps one of our top 3 or 4 worst presidents.

 

 

Edited by Joe Bauer
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